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I think they are going to run the legs off opponents. The forward line may play high and the back flanks may push up. [We need to get our transitioning and reactivity right.] During general play, I can see us pushing a back (River's, Brayshaw) and a forward (ANB, Spargo, Kossie) into the middle, with our ruck's filling the kick away from play. We will open our forward area, for getting the ball over the back, and trust the experienced backs to fill and cover. Pack running and hunting, overwhelm them when we don't have it and spread when we do. I don't think they will change that exhausting type of game plan. They will always ask, how long can the opposition go with them till MFC break it open. There is also a chance Kossie will join Rivers, as both get more starts in the middle. Rivers is looking very strong, and makes a difficult match-up. The stuff that will beat us is still the opponents fast balls and switching. Hopes that our wingers can close that down.

Rivers in the midfield is not the only difference during a game we may see. Our main midfield group, Petracca, Oliver, Viney need a chop out more during games. The game will be even faster this year. Noting we already have another big bodied midfielder in Grundy, who looked in great nick yesterday.

The name (and the idea for that matter) is terrible but so are most of the other names dreamt up in that brainstorm session. At the risk of cultural appropriation (but hey the AFL already does that anyway) Corroboree Round has a nice ring to it with all the clubs converging on one place like the traditional indigenous corroborees.

There was another reason, a sponsors function afterwards, entertained whilst hill running was taking place by that well known stand up comedian Choco

Cyril kicked 40 goals or more twice in 11 seasons. Kozzie has done it twice before he is 22 yo.

I agree. IMO this romantic notion that we must be near the G doesn't hold water. We play there and we are attached to the MCC, but I'd rather us have best practice training and admin facilities away from the MCG precinct than put up with this endless wait to be hopefully squashed in to a car park space next to AAMI park and still train on public parkland. It's a matter of being pragmatic and ensuring that our players, men and women, have the best facilities soon, not in 15 or 20 years time. If we are offered a twin oval, brand new development with indoor training and pool facilities at Caufield, we should jump at it. And I reckon a supporters social club as part of it would be a waste of money. Would be unused or severely under used

The players have always had a designated 2nd position and it only makes sense that they train/play in that 2nd role to understand it and more importantly the players around them can jell with them when in that role. When TMac went back in defence briefly last year it was seamless, just the way it should be. This sort of thing is what I will find fascinating during the season when combined with the strategic sub. Some teams will just opt for the sub as backup if someone gets injured, however I could see it being used in a variety of ways. Is it the stopper role? An oppo player gets off the chain and someone needs to sit on them. Harmes on the bench comes on for the second half to fill that role? Rivers as sub comes on to quiet a rebounding defender or to allow Gus time in the middle. These things have been managed by the interchange in the past but now we have a true break glass in case of emergency option. The permutations are going to be interesting.

Saty in a training thread....as rare as a Mr snuffleupagus appearance in Sesame Street!! Don't be a stranger!

The Rivers to midfield move is certainly intriguing from my point of view. He looks extremely fit from seeing him up close and he's got that perfect combination of speed and power alongside his height being 188cm which is now the norm for being a modern prototype midfielder. I like it.

Perhaps there has been some fan/member engagement from the club, but of the many surveys I receive from the club every year, I have never been consulted about my feelings on a training base. I know the fan base is only a small part of the decision making process, but there is a long held assumption and policy from multiple MFC administrations, that we MUST be in the CBD/MCG precinct. Having watched Collingwood, Essendon, Hawthorn, Brisbane, West Coast, Fremantle all move away from the traditional homes in order to significantly upgrade their facilities, we've now spent decades waiting for something that, realistically, doesn't seem to be happening. There's no votes in developing another sporting center in the CBD, if anything, you'd lose some. Cutting down a single tree from a public green space would results in protests at best, which club and definitely government don't want. I'm 40 years old and in my lifetime, the MCG has never been exclusively ours. I hold no real allegiance to the area outside of the actual MCG. I want to see us develop a facility that can hold its own against other teams in the league and that requires space and political will that simply doesn't exist in the MCG precinct. We are hamstrung by the promises of multiple boards.

Word is Rivers played a bit in the midfield.

If true, then Lewis is much sillier than I thought. Jordon and Black are barely playing the same sport, let alone comparable as footballers. Black player 300 games, won a Brownlow, a norm smith, played in three flags, won three B&F and captained his club. JJ will be very fortunate to emulate one of those.

Rivers on ball is interesting. I'm not sure his tank is yet at the level where it's anything like a permanent change, and I've seen him at half back all summer so there's no suggestion of that. As a rotational move it could be good for him and the side. But unlike Collingwood who moved Pendles back to get some Daicos or Maynard rotations we don't have a clear cut on baller who would do the same. Obviously Gus could be he's already shaping as more of a defender if Salem is out. Petracca, Oliver, Viney, Sparrow, Pickett, Harmes aren't going to swap to half back. As for Rivers he has been solid but he hasn't taken a huge leap to my eye. I thought this could be the summer where he consistently trains at a high level and stands out. I'd suggest it's probably just mixing things up so they've got another option if needed, but maybe it's to give Riv a bit of encouragement too. I'm hoping he has a big season no matter the role.

clear starting inside trio: oliver, petracca, viney next cabs: brayshaw, sparrow, harmes, jordon, dunstan already best 23 potential rotations: pickett, rivers, anb and then a bunch outside the expected best 26 side

Like it. He's a good decision maker and a good kick with a decent turn of speed. Gives us options, especially if we get an injury or two (touch wood not)

Don’t think I’ll ever forget a player that was involved in the first premiership I’ve seen, even if they pizz off to another club.

I wish people would stop saying Casey facilities are as good as others in the AFL. https://edgearchitectural.com.au/projects/casey-fields-melbourne-football-club-aflw-upgrade/ The last upgrade was to provide an indoor facility was for the AFLW and VFLW sides. The mens side have purloined it, but it wasn't built for them. It is about half the size of Essendons indoor faciliity. The ground has a great surface, but where is the weights room, the physio facilities, the recovery pools? As for the admin, I would suggest you take time to visit the club in the MCG one day. You might be able to locate them buried near the top of the southern stand, but it isn't one office. They are spread along various cubby holes througout the G, that most office workers would cringe at. I would also suggest those who think what we have is sufficient, to go and actually look at what others have. We haven't progressed much beyond the days of the Junction oval. Instead of comparing what the Bulldogs have got, compare what WCE, Geelong, Sydney, Hawthorn, Collingwood have got. They not only win premierships, but appear in finals year after year after year, because their players and staff and admin have the best environment to thrive.

Even a Key forward like Charlie Dixon has only kicked 40 goals or more twice in 12 seasons....

And of course Rivers is a pretty good long kick into the deep forward line.

Thanks @WERRIDEE, it's good to see what others think of the opposition for the up coming season. I'm going through every team and trying get a handle on their strengths and weaknesses to make my preseason forecasts and this includes challenging the assumptions I hold that could well be a serious case of confirmation bias such is my antipathy for the other 17 teams (vale Fitzroy who were the only team that came close to being my second side). Making my prognostications I try to list the best 18 and then the next 10 best players (most sides will use somewhere around 38-40 players over the course of a season). Typically I disregard 1st year draftees as some like Nick Daicos will be very good, but the overwhelming majority only have cameo moments and are rarely influential on the outcome of where sides finish. I think the starting 18 is just about right - although you could mount an argument for Shane McAdam who came 7th in their B&F to be at least in the 22 if not on the ground. So the draw: They play Brisbane, Port Collingwood, GCS, GWS and West Coast twice. Based on last years form, only the last two I'm counting as gimmes. They have a first up hitout away against the Giants before playing a block of tough matches against top eight aspirants in Richmond, Port, Freo and Carlton before they draw breath against the Hawks in Tassie. They then play Collingwood, the Cats, Dogs, Lions and Suns (away) in the next five weeks. I think its a possibility that they could be 3-10 going into the bye. 1. Darren Burgess- so we know they were significantly fitter last year and I expect that to repeat itself - won't have any problems running games out. 2. Defence seems to have all the right pieces in place with enough spread of age and experience. Worrell is light on for games and I've penciled him in for key position post along with Butts and Doedee who are solid talls, Smith, Dawson, Milera provide good run and quality ball use, and I'm a fan of Nick Murray as a lockdown defender. 3. Rucks. O'Brien is a good ruckman and Thilthorpe is developing well. The only other ruckman is Kieran Strachan who won the Crows SANFL B&F and made the SANFL team of the year, but with only five games to his name, if O'Brien goes down (only missed two games last year when he was dropped) 4. Contested Ball winners. They had two last year (Laird and Keays) that had more than 200 CP(we had 4). I know they were missing Sloane (33 this year and coming back from an ACL) and Crouch is on the outer and it will be interesting to see if he forces his way back in or if his ticket has been punched. They really need a Soligo, Berry or Sholl to really make an impact this year, but I'm not sure they can address this in one season. I know they have high hopes for Luke Pedlar, but he's unlikely to do that after only 5 senior games. I know they were ranked 3rd overall for CPs as a team, but it's a very uneven spread in terms of workload and it's why initially I thought the player they could least afford to lose to injury was Rory Laird. 5. Class - their forward line has it with Rachele and Rankine, but they need it in the midfield - as hard as they work, and tackle they lack big bodies and powerful brutes to break a game open. Keays, Hinge, Berry, Sloane, Schoenberg are all honest players, but I doubt one of them forces their way into a top four midfield - well with the exception of Laird. Anyone that's getting 360 CPs in a season is worth a spot in your midfield. To me the player that sums up Adelaide is Ben Keays. An honest hard worker that gives his all for the team, but in the back of your mind he's the place marker for the classy midfielder you need to draft/trade into the team. The other big problem is the wings... with no Seedsman now they seem to be rather thin in this under-rated department. 6. Their most important player. - initially I had their B&F winner Rory Laird - but I've swapped it to the big Texan. Without him I just don't think their forward line can work. Fogarty made big improvements last year - but without Tex he gets the best defender and Thilthorpe the second best tall - I think it's probably a season too soon for that for both of them. Tex is 33 this year and while there's no reason to believe he can't maintain that form (for some reason tall forwards don't decline as sharply with age as other footballers), the older a player gets the more you worry about how prone they are to getting injured and how long it will take them to recover. Is he due for an on-field injury as opposed to his self-inflicted off-field damage? The assumption I need to challenge is that Adelaide and Matthew Nicks will continue to build on their development over the last three seasons, 3 wins, 7 wins, 8 wins. There'll be high hopes for a 10 - 12 win season. Football trajectories are rarely linear though and I can see a slide on the cards for Adelaide. I have too many concerns to have them winning more than 7-8 games, and if things go really wrong as they could with only the 2nd youngest and 2nd least experienced list in the comp it might be a difficult season for them. I can see a scenario where they finish bottom four, but not one where they finish higher than 10th.

what did the club actually say? giving him some time? or giving him as much time as he wants? i hope the club has set a time limit (not publicly) of by the mid season bye. if it drags on after that it could have an impact on the whole team and detract from the premiership focus and we end up in another media circus i know you can't absolutely force it, but there comes a reasonable time when it must be resolved

These are big decisions for players and they work to their timetable, not that of frustrated/impatient supporters. Annoying as it is for us not to know now, we have to just be patient and hope he stays.

Still not quite right. Grundy as a back pocket?? Melksham in the best 22??

Such an incredible set of highlights and that was just the goals. He's right up there with the best of all time IMHO. I'm not going to waste any emotional energy getting worked up about if he stays or goes. There's nothing any of us can do about it. I thank Scully for teaching me that no player is irreplaceable or worth getting worked up about. He turned into Hogan turned into May. Life goes on. But having said that what a player. Ever since I saw his pre draft highlights he has reminded me of Cyril Rioli. So I did a little bit of picking. Here's some stats to compare them. Kosie Cyril. Kosie Cyril Kosie Cyril Year 1 1 2 2 3 3 Games 14 25 25 19 23 20 Goals (Av) 7 (0.5) 24 (1.0) 40 (1.6) 21 (1.1) 41 (1.8) 27 (1.4) Tackles (Av) 35 (2.5) 87 (3.5) 87 (3.5) 89 (4.7) 62 (2.7). 98 (4.9) Some very interesting comparisons. The one that stands out for me as I always thought Kossie's defence work and tackling was way ahead of Cyril. Wrong. Also interesting that Kossie's tackling dropped off last season. But Kossie is clearly a much more substantial goal scorer than Cyril who kicked 42 in his 8th year and 47 in his 9th year.

Very good intel @Demonland, thanks.

B!00dy good thing if true. 2021 we were ferocious with very little drop off within games and week to week. Last year there were many a time where we were up by 20-30ish points and we’d simply turn off. Need that killer instinct back, pronto.

Brown is in SCINTELATING form in last 3 Match Sims.. Moving freely Clunking marks kicking goals..creating play... No way he misses out!🤩

That’s my understanding. I assume he is one of a number of 2nd string players, for want of a better word that can rotate through the midfield.

Could be a bit disconcerting. The training's intensity has been high, they have been going at each other, not recklessly but with some fervour, that have left a few with niggles. They want them tough and ready for battle. Good to see plenty of changes in our approach. Structurally (not too much breaking into fwd, back and mid groups, more specific instructions with goal kicking, more time in sims, greater emphasis on the computer analysis with more people hovering over more screens), types of drills (more kaos and complexity), intensity, increased amount of noise (more regularly and louder than other seasons), assisting and instructing each other (often see them one on one, talking and/or drilling), making a highly competitive environment (many activities seem to be them against us, and they are always pushing each other to go stronger/better/smarter), taking a knee and talking as a group near the end of each sessions (I imagine they discuss the purpose/intention/outcomes and air any other business), running programs at the end and not the beginning of the session. It will be interesting to see what this strategy and our long list can produce, especially in the last rounds and possibly finals. Go Dees. Hoping we don't wear them out, though they have bought into the process and our culture appears strong.

It's a comedy that we're not under the one roof in 2023. Being the oldest sporting club in the world and representing the city of Melbourne IN OUR NAME it's even funnier. It's equally comical and baffling that supporters think that it's not a big issue. And constantly need explanation as to why it's so important for the continued necessary growth of a brand and sporting organisation in a highly competitive environment. Cue the "yeh but we won a flag in 2021 so it can't be that importanttttt" comments.

I also believe Clarry’s thumb is fine and it was his finger that gave him issues recently. Totally separate to the thumb surgery. He participated fully in the intense match SIM on Friday sans the fluoro yellow hat of shame.

They are leaving no stone unturned to get back to where they know they have to be to get another crack at a Granny.!!!!

But the club has acknowledged that we have the worst facilities in the AFL.

I think this season with our depth key players will be managed to keep them fresh. Also i think players out of form will be moved to Casey quicker than last year. We need to give our depth a go. Some of them may surprise. I will be hard to leave Bowey out if he is in form..

What’s with this ‘a home base for us all!!’ Nonsense? It is an effing training and admin co-location. It’s not going to be a social club that you can have a $3 beer at like you may have thought you did in the 70s. That is not happening. So it is really about having control of a training base near Brunton Ave that we have this predisposition to ascertain. Meanwhile we have two sets of elite facilities, one of which is going to continue to have money poured into it 45 mins out at Casey. In a growth corridor where actual people live - if we care about that. So we have our priorities right - having a competitive team to, you know, do the raison d’être of being a football club; WINNING FLAGS. Our current facilities allow us to take time getting this decision oh so right - and we won’t have to rush into a decision to get our admin and FD into the same building closer to Brunton Ave to not talk to each other…

A couple of points of motivation, apart from watching the Dees in win #5 for the 2023 season OD: - free accommodation in a mates apartment, within walking distance of Adelaide Oval, - Mrs DoF and I enjoy visiting the SA wine regions and beaches. We’ll drive from Canberra, and make a bit of a holiday of it. The Dees game is followed by another game (Port and somebody) so we will probably stay on for that. Yes, we went to watch the Dees [censored] Adelaide at AO last season.

For those contemplating heading over for Gather Round: Our game against Essendon is now sold out as well as the night cap game between Port and Dogs at the same venue and day. https://www.afl.com.au/news/874724/saturday-double-header-sold-out-in-gather-round/amp

I think the brain trust noticed as well. Increase the intensity, make them accountable, have them hardened up. It will be interesting to see if we go in with the killer instinct (I expect so). As McQueen alludes to, can't wait till the Bulldogs game and to see what we've got and what changes happen. Those second half drop off's killed us. Nearly like watching two different games.

We need to have foundations at the MCG. I hope the Club is quietly planning to be part of the New Southern Stand, keep Casey, no problem but we need to be a part of the ‘G It is the heart i saw Gosch’s Paddock last week. It is far rom a sub standard surface. What we have now is adequate. But of course we have to strive to be better.

HAPPY RAMAVERSARY!!!

Good, has Elliot Yeo vibes

Correction. Lachie Hunter’s concussion was as a result of a collision with Max‘s boot whilst smothering a snap for goal during Wednesday‘s session.

They're certainly better than they showed last year...how far they rebound I guess is the question. Kennedy is a big loss and they have a few other ageing stars nearer to the end. Going to be an interesting watch.

TRAINING REPORT FRIDAY 10/2/2023 Disclaimer.. The published content refers to the latest incantation of the Addams family franchise WEDNESDAY available on Netflix ( A cracker of a show) It contains fictional characters who may or may not be living ( Nor Dead or Undead) They're creepy and they're kooky, Mysterious and spooky, They're altogether ooky, The Addams Family. Their house is a museum When people come to see 'em They really are a scream The Addams Family. [snap twice] (Neat) [snap twice] (Sweet) [snap twice] (Petite) So get a witch's shawl on A broomstick you can crawl on We're gonna pay a call on The Addams Family. … Good afternoon Demonlanders welcome to another installment of Demonland’s training reports! Beautiful Day in sunny Downtown Casey Fields home to rattle snakes, Black Mamba's, Daleks, Yeti's, a Million biting Crawling insects, and the worst of the lot - Ex Mothers in Law!!! First a very strange sign seen to day about a hidden warning which I have not seen here ever! Any way on with the report (All of a Sudden, A Hand wraps around my face, it is Clamy, Cold and Wet complete with a rancid smell) I'm in a Panic till I hear THING LEAVE PICKET FENCE ALONE , YOU KNOW HE HATES SURPRISES. P.F ( Expleteive Deleted) Wednesday?? Thing what the Hell?? W (Hello God father P.F it is tragic to see you again, you look pretty good considering! P.F Wednesday Addams (Old family greeting ensues which is the reverse Indian Death Lock ( Also being performed currently by The Indian Cricket Team on the hapless Aussies) What are you doing here Girl you look as Ghastly, Morbid and Rigoured than ever!! W Thanks for the Complement Fence! P.F Thing how are you you look more gruesome than ever as well! Thing ( Makes O.K Sign) W Well Father and Mother (Gomez and Morticia Got a email from Grandma Frump that a 6th Cousin was drafted bu the Demons Football team his name is Jed Adams number 26 and they asked me to go and check it out! P.F Well Wednesday you have come to the right place they train right here and I'm about to do a training report why dont you come and watch?? W No thanks Fence Thing and I would rather look for some Black Widow spiders, Snakes and other creatures for Grandma to stew. How long will you be here? P.F About 2 Hours ! W 2 Hours well ok but we start filming for the second netflix series in an hour and so I have to get my makeup on! P.F Looks like you already have got it on, Pale Flesh, Sunken Eyes, Evil Black mascara and Lipstick! W Again P.F Your complements almost make me blush, if I had any blood in my veins. P.F OK Wednesday, Thing go enjoy yourselves, see you soon! Now where was I??? Oh yes Training report Arrived at 10.00 Just in time to see start of 4 Quarter Match Simulations. INJURIES REHAB AND NO SHOWS No show Didnt see Lachy Hunter at all out there also Didn't see Melky and Salem or Kozzy … REHAB GROUP Andy Moniz Wakefield, Joel Smith ( Although he doesn't look far off) and Will Verall (Jake Lever, and Hibbo and Clarry ALL JOINED IN MATCH SIM but Jake and Hibbo were on Bikes after about 3 Quarters PLAYER WATCH AND HIGHLIGHTS 1 BEN BROWN He is in career best form at the moment and he marked strongly in contests and on the lead. Must have kicked 5 or so goals for the blues and was opposed to either HARRISON PETTY and on occasions STEVEN MAY. look set for a bumper season and has all but cemented a place in the 1st Round. 2 CLAYTON OLIVER Showed NO signs of his thumb injury, was creative, brilliant and at his destructive best opening up play exhilarating runs and brillant ball use .Just Sublime 3 JACOB VAN ROOYEN Nearly I say Nearly has arrived. Playing in the White team looks like he belongs and was very strong in the air and a dead eye kick for goal, Played very well and I cannot see how he misses out. Having said that TOM MC DONALD was a perfect foil for BEN BROWN and he too looked menacing and dangerous with his up and down the ground gut running. 4 DEAKYN SMITH, was brilliant off half back, he had a few opponents but the way he glides over the turf, reads the ball incredibly well and provides great run and carry. I beleive he would be looking very good for an early season call up. 5 TRAC was Tracc and he and JACK VINEY were indefatigable and as robust as a Jar of Bovril with one teaspoon of hot water added. Just cannot be stopped. 6 JAMES HARMES and ANB were as Busy as a one legged man in a Bum Kicking competition. They add more than icing on the cake they are the cake and very rich ones indeed and part of a potent revolving mid and half forward mix. 7 MAX GAWN VS BRODIE GRUNDY This was facinating to say the least Both played a Ruck Roving around the ground role when they weren't rucking with a Licence to roam far and wide ( Well thats how it looked to me) Max probably shaded Brodie in the ruck and around the ground , BUT Grundy did some nice things that brought many into the play. These guys will be weapons! If they play the same role as today Clubs will almost have to sacrifice a running tall Cyberman type to keep up with them as both have amazing fitness! 8 JAKE BOWEY Just mops up time and time again. Disposal never falters and seems a lock for round 1 9 ED LANGDON just Runs and Runs and sets up play with ability to be in the right position perrenially 10 MOOSE MUNRO yep thats right, the Moose played in the white team and picked up numerous good possesions and kicked a great goal, Think he was just making up numbers but gee would not be the worst idea if a spot opened up HIGHLIGHTS REEL 1 Ben Brown marked 60 out, looked to have a shot, but ran around the man on the mark and bullet passed it to Ed Langdon for a Goal 2 James Harmes 1, 2,3, 4 bounces around wing /pocket no options hemmed in and drilled a goal from the acutest of angles 30 out 3 Matt Jefferson Quiet for the day but late in game took a strong contested mark 50 out on an angle and Kicked Truly OTHER OBSERVATIONS If Burgoyne is no 33 Didnt notice him a lot in Match Sim.Bailey Laurie some Cameos, Luke Dunstan Ditto, Kade Chandler same. Thats about it ah here is Wednesday and Thing with what looks like plenty of slitheras and assorted other nasties to keep Grandma Happy. W One other thing Fence, Uncle Fester wants to know if you want more of that Home Brewed Scotch that tastes to me like Embalming Fluid.? P.F Yeah tell him to put me down for another Dozen. W Yes the same stuff is like paint varnish. P.F Yes Wednesday my young Ghoul, but remember behind every great varnish is a wonderful FINISH!!!! particularly if applied liberally to a FENCE! Cheers P.F

Caulfield racecourse would be ideal. If those equine pools are good enough for thoroughbreds, imagine the powers of recovery they’ll have on footy players……..then there’s all those health benefits of carrots

Disagree entirely. Bevo’s their best coach in the history of their club. Fact. Of course you sign him up. Forward line needs some defensive punch. If Hannan isn’t up to it they’ll need Charlie Clarke. And the 3 talls need to prove themselves. Backline has 3 All Aus quality flankers in Dale, Daniel and Richards. Gardiner is good enough now as a lockdown tall. They need one of Jones or Keath to step up at full back. Keath was great in 2020 but couldn’t move last year and was never meant to be a full back anyway. If Jones can do it then Keath battles Darcy for CHB, ideally the veteran wins out. Relying on veterans and kid talls isn’t ideal but it can work. It’s similar to our hopes with JVR up forward. Midfield is a bigger issue than the names suggest. The on ballers don’t defend and they’re lacking wing options. They’ll need Toby McLean pushing the star 5 mids for game time and providing a defensive role. And they’ll need to find an attacking wing from Vandermeer, Bedendo, Arthur Jones or even Sauce Baker!