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VP you spoke of the victim mentality in your earlier post. To me your statement above is just that. Are you suggesting that because we have received help, or as I prefer to call it redress or equalisation for rigged income earning fixtures, we are not allowed to feel aggrieved or complain about blatant favouritism in the fixture? The Carlton prime time fixture or playing at Geelong being major examples. I don't accept that receiving some help dooms you to being a passive subservient member of the AFL.

A pretty low bar. You could send the team out in Hawaiian shirts and most people would be happier than this year's effort.

Schwarz along with Flower and Jacovich were the best demon players I can think of. It may seem a bit far fetched but his knees probably cost us a premiership.

Our Schwarzenegger was a champion. In 1994, he was as good as Carey. And Carey was one of the greatest of all time. I was behind the goals at the punt road end, when Schwartz twisted and his knee went. We were silent. For the rest of the game, it was a blur. I think our future went out the window. He was a sensational CHF. We were seeing another Demon cursed. His courage to play on was amazing and whilst he was never the spring heeled CHF, he was a loyal champion Demon.

From today's AFL article- "All up, an unfortunate pre-season accident led to a need to try new things, and now, Garland – who will also attempt to play for the Casey Demons in 2018 if his knee holds up – is pretty happy with how it's panned out." Would be good to see Col run out for Casey next year

I have it on good authority that we will have a new clash jumper ourselves next year. I think fans will be happier than they were with this year's

A small detour (considering the track has already buckled): We could be looking at minor milestones for our youngun's in just about every other game through the middle of the season: Salem - 46 games Harmes - 44 . Hunt - 41 Petracca - 39 Oscar - 37 Brayshaw - 36 Stretch - 36 Oliver - 35 ANB - 34 It's probably not that unusual to have so many young players at a club floating around that mark but most will be expected to be core starters this year. I'm hoping that the repetition of milestones week-in week-out will add to a sense of belonging and unity. And if we just happened to snatch a flag, watch out when these players are then hitting the 80/100 game-marks in the following seasons (along with Hogan - currently 51 and Lever and Frost - 56). Go Dees!

Kobe Farmer

And that's a problem? What do you suggest we do, try and not make money? We're already standing on our own 2 feet ... read our annual reports and stop making stuff up. Serious question ... when are the poker machines finishing up? Have you got documentation to support your claim? So @Dr. Gonzo puts forward an intelligent suggestion and you shoot him down and then offer ... nothing. That's you in a nutshell. I reckon it makes @Redleg look like a passionate demon who wants the best for his club. How about you? Do you want the best for your club? We're getting fed 3 day old scraps and have done for years now - decades in fact. Of late (2011 to 2016) we've been continuously 'granted' 7 home fixtures against poor drawing interstate teams and people wonder why we're not well off. Often our other home games in those years were against the other smaller Melbourne clubs. You want proof? - go to AFL tables and see for yourself. And that's the main reason we are selling off games to the NT ... do you reckon that we want to do that? Maybe we've been forced to do so to balance the books. A 1.4 million dollar grant in 2013 and you reckon there's lots more. So where is this extra funding that you continually bang on about? For the record ... AFL payments to clubs revealed, Giants handed $21 million 2016 PAYMENTS TO CLUBS 1. GWS Giants $21,548,374 2. St Kilda $18,566,589 3. Western Bulldogs $17,610,181 4. Brisbane Lions $17,532,922 5. Gold Coast Suns $17,194,594 6. North Melbourne $15,022,303 7. Melbourne $14,799,452 8. Port Adelaide $13,206,665 9. Sydney Swans $12,488,957 10. Richmond $12,358,925 11. Essendon $11,914,715 12. West Coast Eagles $11,703,240 13. Hawthorn $11,614,683 14. Carlton $11,607,942 15. Collingwood $11,304,689 16. Geelong Cats $10,787,483 17. Fremantle Dockers $10,563,307 18. Adelaide Crows $10,553,565 *All clubs received an $8.188 million base payment and a $1.2 million bonus payment. Extra payments included equal and disequal financial assistance, prize money, and distributions from Etihad Stadium signage rights. On the surface it looks like the 4 smaller Melbourne clubs are getting some form of compensation but our growth is stifled in comparison to the well-looked-after big clubs. As a consequence, the gap between the rich & poor gets wider by the year.

Like some others, I went very cool on footy after our gutless 'end of year fade-out'. Unlike previous years, my interest in the finals series was barely lukewarm, and it is only now, with the trade period gone and draft approaching, that my interest has been somewhat rekindled. But I always knew that my support for Melbourne will live as long as I do ....... it's in my DNA. A few days ago I renewed memberships for myself and five other family members. It will be their Christmas gift, and they can 'like it or lump it' but I am very confident that it will be the former.

Cause for optimism? I had some free time and called SEN yesterday to specifically ask David Schwarz one question that’s been nagging me for years. I know he has a son and was wondering ( hoping ) if he had the makings of a prospective father/son nomination in a few years time David was very honest and admitted that whilst his son played football , he was only 12 and pencil thin , thus not monstering opponents yet . On the positive side he WAS projected to grow to 6’6” ( in the old measurements ) and The Ox hoped he’d be good enough to play for the mighty Dees eventually. We can live and dream? because realistically there’s no other superstars in the recent history of the club that we can hope for similarly gifted offspring.

Why? We have had an operating profit over this period as I understand it which would be the envy of many others. We are paying off debt. As PJ said on SEN just recently, this club needs an extended period of stability. Unlike Macca who thinks the last three years is all that matters, it's really just the first baby steps in setting this club up. We should be working closely with the AFL to ensure this happens. Our saviour might be the Bentleigh Club. It is worth millions and properly utilized could replace much of our pokies revenue. What a brilliant move that was by Joe. You see Macca, things that happened more than 3 years ago do matter.

One surprising absentee from the list is Jim Stynes. I would think that his revolutionary ruck style, incredible endurance and the number of successive games he strung together, would earn him a place on the list. Of course winning a Brownlow in a landslide would also point to this.

Gotta have Yze on that list. Some of the things he used to do I loved the Bizz too for the few years we had him

Gee OD, you are certainly living up to your moniker lately DJ is a young kid , we have time to develop them properly now, he is really good at pressure and tackling, his goal kicking was letting him down, so that is one area he is working on, spoke to him Jeff's set shot kicking was getting ropey as well coz he was over thinking it, I asked, he went back to a simpler set up and it improved last year I am sure he can help DJ is this area This is the exciting bit for me, we will add 4 more, but we have only scratched the surface on the talent our young players have, some may turn out to be busts, but given time who knows? Harmes and ANB come to mind as 2 who were considered 'list cloggers' but with confidence, proper development and game time turned into solid AFL players and still early 20's

Adem Yze deserves a mention as well. One of the most skilled players to play for the MFC.

Honourable mention to S Tingay

If his son can do anything like his old man could then I think we'll be pretty happy.

Better idea than just belittling people who make suggestions. Individuals and organizations banding together to achieve an objective is hardly the most unusual thing in society. But feel free to dismiss it as some hippie leftist fantasy if that makes you happy, but don't mock the person suggesting it.

There was a recruiter who once drafted Morton. He had a full-time job as a recruiter. He presumably spent hours and hours pouring over footage of Morton. He no doubt interviewed Morton, and maybe even ordered a psych report on Morton. He perhaps spoke to Morton's school-teachers and sports' coaches, possibly even Morton's mum: who, for the sake of economy, we'll presume here to call Mrs. Morton. I do have my doubts that our star recruiter cared much for trends in physical conditioning, but, regardless, the point of this story, is. simply, Morton.

Thanks Col. Will always remember the night in 2010 when you and Chip absolutely monstered Fev and Browny at the Gabba. Also THAT night against Essendon, deep in the pits of despair. I'm glad you're continuing your footy journey with Melbourne, may it be long and prosperous. This one really hits home as a changing of the guard. Trengove, Watts, Spencer (to a lesser extent), and now Judy. Hopefully the next chapter is a lot brighter.

I have a huge soft spot for Col personally, so I'm glad the club has found him a suitable role. His journey from kid in Tassie who nearly had to give up footy because he couldn't get a lift to training, to the handy, gutsy defender he was during the Bailey era, to almost the posterboy for the down trodden during the Neeld era - it's been quite the ride. At his best he was quick, desperate, always put his body on the line and could play on tall or small. All the best Col, hopefully this is the start of great things.

The current membership figure is a lowly 16,689. (It picks up MCC memberships and the annual automatic rollovers which occurred on Oct 25). I don’t have the comparable figure for Week 4 of Oct last year. But the figures for week 3 of October in recent years were: 2017: 21,890. 2018 Shortfall at least 5,291 (24%) 2016: 19,026. 2018 Shortfall at least 2,337 2014: 17,625. 2018 Shortfall at least 936 It is reasonable to assume that it is the diehard supporters that pay up 'early'. So it would be alarming to the club that at least 24% of last year’s diehard renewals have not occurred. Equally alarming would be we are under the equivalent 2014 figure (ie after the announcement of Roos as the new coach). If 24% fewer diehard supporters have not renewed, one wonders how many of the new members that took us to 42,000 will also fall by the wayside. We can all guess the reasons for the non-renewals: Round 23 capitulation Missing finals The post round 23 communication vacuum from the club The early finals ticket brochure fiasco. (and maybe for some the handling/departure of a fan favourite) On DL we have done those to death and on here we are quite forgiving and our belief in the club and its management, while questioned at times, is very resilient. But rightly or wrongly those events hurt the club and seem enough for members to start voting with their wallets. DL posters can ridicule them and say they are not 'true supporters' but they have the right to not take out a membership if they are not happy with what the club has shown. PJ and co really have their hands full to get the disenchanted members back. I hope he has some aces up his sleeve because patience seems to have run out. If the trend doesn't reverse it will really hurt financially which we can ill afford with the ordinary fixture we have been given. It will also hurt PJ's attempts to get a front of jumper sponsor ( I believe AHG will not be renewing their sponsorship). We might be lucky to reach 40,000 for 2018. FWIW - I did my bit and signed up last week.

Sandra Sully stuff hardtack, but I am very sorry to hear this. Hope the young bloke is going well and has an injury-free season next year.

Love the Ox He still keeps good contacts within the club. He was filthy like us after Round 23

It looks like a lot of people held off to the last minute for the Oct 31 cut off for Christmas membership mail. That and the Nov 1 Direct Debit renewals have kicked in and today's number is 21,559! Still about 1,478 short of 2017 figure around this time (23,037) but improving!

They listed the criteria under the table when it was in the paper yesterday.

Agree and Davey at his best. (remember it is most exciting .. not best). The absolute best when on song and unfortunately that was not often.... Travis Johnstone...... third quarter against Adelaide in a final at the MCG..... best I have ever seen played.

Et "too" Brute?...........I see your point!

Completely subjective of course, but mine in order of how exciting they were for me is: 1. LIAM JURRAH - Perhaps the most naturally gifted player i have seen 2. THE WIZ - Just loved it every time he got the ball 3. JAKO - Always stayed close to the ground but just super clever and strong. Capable of ridiculous goals on a regular basis 4. THE OX - Unbelievable before hampered by knee injuries 5. AARON DAVEY - Kept me going to the footy through the dark times 6. GARRY LYON - Silky smooth and skilful but too often injured 7. DAVID NIETZ - Not so much 'exciting' but just good and strong 8. JEREMY HOWE - Best hands and speccy I have seen. Incomplete footballer though 9. ROBBO - Cause he was ROBBO!!! Started as a lazy opportunist and turn his game into a much more allrounded one 10. JEFF WHITE - Played against much bigger opponents but a great judge of the flight of the ball. Excellent mobility and kicking skills.

BS. If Jack Watts left Melbourne a year of so ago, we would have labelled him a "traitor". He stuck fat when we were siht. We should stick fat over his temporary plot-losing in the pre-season of 2017. The supporters who have heavily questioned Jack's off-loading, have some idea about: - LOYALTY being a 2-way street - VALUE. Pick 31 and negative $150,000 gets you absolute carp in this game. - not blindly following 100% what the club spits out. The latest is that "he had trouble accepting feedback".

Those who have an indifferent attitude towards our fixture have no right to complain about the NT venture (even if we increase the amount of games we play in the Territory) Why? Because the fixture we get forces the club to sell off games elsewhere. So yeah, the fixture is important. .

I rang the club about this a few weeks back. If you have an existing reserve seat package you can continue without the $429 reserve seat gfg bundle paying only slightly more for your demon seat package than you did last year. However you cannot purchase a new reserve seat package without the gfg bundled in. If like me you purchased a gfg and demon seats in 2017 you were automatically transferred into demon seats plus for 2018 with the gfg at a cost of $429.

Christian petracca

Just a little draft talk summarised below: 'inside accumulator' = Slow and sh!t skills 'Outside wingman' = Soft 'Raw prospect': Skinny as a twig. See you in 5 years. 'Capable of brilliance': Inconsistent. 'Versatile': Doesn't have a position. 'Great left foot kick' = No right side. 'athletic midfielder' = Lacks footy smarts

The fixture is the fixture. The game is a business and the AFL is the Governing Body of that business and all those who fall within its web including the clubs are captive to the business. As with all businessss, the outcomes are influenced by the bargaining power of individuals, clubs, TV stations, media etc. Outcomes are reached as a result of the participation of all these forces, some conflicting others not. It is a marketplace but not a free marketplace. A little like China where the burgeoning market is still heavily influenced and controlled by The Party, Governnent and ruling elites. The AFL governance is not about fairness. It is about producing maximal financial outcomes for the competition, the clubs, the players and the salaried staff of the AFL. The fixture is the best example of where the AFL attempts to produce an outcome that satisfies the business imperative and yet accommodates all parties after a period of bargaining and wheeling and dealing. However, despite angst over the fixture, arguably we have a competition that (as a result of the draft, income redistribution, and increased professionalism across all clubs) is very even. Over the past few years we have had two cellar dwellers winning the flag and a host of clubs vying for the 8. The MFC had every opportunity in 2017 to make the 8 and go on with it. We had games during the season that we could have and should have won but fell short. At the end of the season we had injury and poor form and a game plan that fell apart. Just like everything else in the world, you have to make do with the hand you are given. In the real world there are many that simply cannot get up off the deck due to the hand they have been dealt. Some do but many don't. In the fixed market place of AFL footy, all clubs have the capacity, if their good enough, to get off the deck at least for one or two seasons and win a flag,

Robert Flower...

thanks Siren, that is a great personal perspective that many footballers ( and elsewhere) will go through. A well written piece by Ben.

Interesting read on Ben and some of the mental issues he faced as an AFL player. http://www.aflplayers.com.au/article/players-voice-ben-kennedy/

Huge man crush on the great man. Hopefully Cooper is as big a talent, and has better knees. God knows I don’t want to cry again over another busted knee.

Ron Barassi offered him 1mil to join the Swans in the toilets at the Brownlow. (no matter how many times a rewrite that it still sounds dirty)

What a champ was the Ox. Tall, mobile, great mark, great kick.Supreme talent curtailed by injury. No wonder Collingwood offered him a fortune to change. But he remained a Demon. Still is a Demon.

If there's one thing I've learnt from scouting this year after being a former 'armchair expert', it's that you need to watch a hell of a lot of vision of an individual to form any sort of accurate and informed opinion about their strengths and weaknesses as a player. There are 15-20 players that I watched closely live this year at TAC cup level but I wish I could have seen even more to consolidate some opinions I have on certain individuals. And that's only the football side of things of course. To answer both your posts, I'll again point out a few things about Jack Petruccelle as a player. The vision you're referring to is from a single Vic Metro game that Petruccelle played in and if I'm not mistaken, it was his first and only game at state level. Petruccelle is a former Basketballer-turned-footballer and it was a little over a year ago that he was playing for the Vic Metro under 18's basketball side. Think about that for a minute. This is a bloke who was a full-time basketballer just over a year ago with a very real chance to go to college in the states to pursue his dream. He made a choice half-way through last year after a couple of games with the Knights to pursue footy. Here are two articles you can read about his transition and the impression he made on the coach at the Knights through his performances at TAC level this year. 1 - http://www.heraldsun.com.au/leader/localfooty/afl-draft-prospect-jack-petruccelle-adds-pace-in-attack-for-tac-cup-club-northern-knights/news-story/2a36d9e6327fa9d92543a8e243c29297 2 - http://www.starweekly.com.au/sports/jack-petruccelle-attacks-new-goal/ Consider now the following: Petruccelle's exposure to these elite footy squads has been extremely limited, yet his improvement due to his raw talent has been monumental at TAC level. This must and will be considered given being an AFL footballer is a full-time profession and his potential is enormous. There were games this year where I saw him do things that nobody else I've watched can do. His speed, agility, contested-marking for his height, ball-handling and awareness in tight spaces (think Petracca), was far and away better than anyone I saw at TAC cup level this year. And what's even more impressive is his ability to go through the midfield and win contested ball and his contested ball numbers at TAC cup level were good, especially for someone who is new to these elite squads. It's a fantastic sign. The knocks on him are of course his kicking, that can't be disputed. What can be argued however, is the measure of how bad his kicking is. And I would argue that it's not as bad as some make out. He is hit and miss at this stage but generally he is very effective around goals. Posters should think about Jayden Hunt when assessing Petruccelle. You've got to look at the upside because there's no doubting he'll slide due to not featuring heavily at state level. Having said all of that about Petruccelle, I am definitely not screaming 'we must draft him', but rather, giving an insight into him as a player, where he has come from and the upside I believe he has given the sheer number of quality attributes he possess and his limited time in the game... [censored] it. I want him at one of our picks in the 30's. The last thing I'd like to leave here is a highlights compilation of Nat Fyfe's game against Vic Country back in his under 18's year. Now based on this footage @durango and @Sydee, I can only assume you'd think he is bog ordinary and would want to stay the hell away?

but you said "because the new cost of it is no doubt much closer to its real value". So, you think that $299 is a fair price just for the opportunity to purchase a ticket maybe of less value? I think it is a rip off, and doubly so if you have no choice.

I'll be renewing but they can bloody well wait. Couldn't muster up a win against a hopeless North from two attempts. Couldn't muster up the prunes to beat a second string Collingwood to give the supporters one measly finals appearance. Meanwhile Richmond, [censored] RICHMOND, plodded their way to a flag on the back of household names like Nathan Broad - a bloke I had not heard of until he snapchatted a stranger with his premiership medallion between her jugs. Yeah, last season still stings.

I think you SHOULD be having a go at the club here... without members the club would be in dire financial straits, so if they want to ensure members stay within the fold, then it is their responsibility to keep us informed of any changes that are going to affect us financially; particularly in the case where memberships are set up for automatic renewal. Christ, even the emails welcoming my son and I back mention absolutely nothing about the costs (a receipt would be nice) let alone the break up of costs!! How hard is it???

I’m stuck between a rock and a hard place on this one Ding. The problem is, and this is my biggest issue, the GF guarantee fee is automatically charged with the membership renewal... I believe they should not have done that and that it should be something you opt into, rather than out of. If that had been the case, then I probably would have held off until later in the season. My son has been through a lot having had an arthroscopy at age 13 two years ago, and more recently a full knee reconstruction after reinjuring the knee in what was essentially his first game back this year; so I think he’s had enough disappointments for one so young. If we make the GF and I couldn’t get seats after promising him I would, I wouldn’t be able to live with myself (not to mention the personal disappointment after waiting 54 years to actually see us win a GF... could only listen on the radio back in ‘64).

Plus 2 tridents from me today. Close to finals this year. Expecting better next year. Glass half full for mine.

Each to their own but I have signed up to the Luni bin again along with my family. Let the fun and games begin.

Liam Ryan I'm guessing will be this year's Nakia. More precisely: not this year's Nakia, but the 'Nakia' of Nakia's draft year. That is to say, he will go pretty early. Nakia.