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If there's one thing I've learnt from scouting this year after being a former 'armchair expert', it's that you need to watch a hell of a lot of vision of an individual to form any sort of accurate and informed opinion about their strengths and weaknesses as a player. There are 15-20 players that I watched closely live this year at TAC cup level but I wish I could have seen even more to consolidate some opinions I have on certain individuals. And that's only the football side of things of course. To answer both your posts, I'll again point out a few things about Jack Petruccelle as a player. The vision you're referring to is from a single Vic Metro game that Petruccelle played in and if I'm not mistaken, it was his first and only game at state level. Petruccelle is a former Basketballer-turned-footballer and it was a little over a year ago that he was playing for the Vic Metro under 18's basketball side. Think about that for a minute. This is a bloke who was a full-time basketballer just over a year ago with a very real chance to go to college in the states to pursue his dream. He made a choice half-way through last year after a couple of games with the Knights to pursue footy. Here are two articles you can read about his transition and the impression he made on the coach at the Knights through his performances at TAC level this year. 1 - http://www.heraldsun.com.au/leader/localfooty/afl-draft-prospect-jack-petruccelle-adds-pace-in-attack-for-tac-cup-club-northern-knights/news-story/2a36d9e6327fa9d92543a8e243c29297 2 - http://www.starweekly.com.au/sports/jack-petruccelle-attacks-new-goal/ Consider now the following: Petruccelle's exposure to these elite footy squads has been extremely limited, yet his improvement due to his raw talent has been monumental at TAC level. This must and will be considered given being an AFL footballer is a full-time profession and his potential is enormous. There were games this year where I saw him do things that nobody else I've watched can do. His speed, agility, contested-marking for his height, ball-handling and awareness in tight spaces (think Petracca), was far and away better than anyone I saw at TAC cup level this year. And what's even more impressive is his ability to go through the midfield and win contested ball and his contested ball numbers at TAC cup level were good, especially for someone who is new to these elite squads. It's a fantastic sign. The knocks on him are of course his kicking, that can't be disputed. What can be argued however, is the measure of how bad his kicking is. And I would argue that it's not as bad as some make out. He is hit and miss at this stage but generally he is very effective around goals. Posters should think about Jayden Hunt when assessing Petruccelle. You've got to look at the upside because there's no doubting he'll slide due to not featuring heavily at state level. Having said all of that about Petruccelle, I am definitely not screaming 'we must draft him', but rather, giving an insight into him as a player, where he has come from and the upside I believe he has given the sheer number of quality attributes he possess and his limited time in the game... [censored] it. I want him at one of our picks in the 30's. The last thing I'd like to leave here is a highlights compilation of Nat Fyfe's game against Vic Country back in his under 18's year. Now based on this footage @durango and @Sydee, I can only assume you'd think he is bog ordinary and would want to stay the hell away?

I wasn't sure whether you were tongue in cheek when you said this but subsequent replies suggest not. My first recollection of being saved by the AFL was in 2003 when we as members had our last chance to vote in some Board members of our choosing - Coglin and Phillip. When they joined the Board they took on responsibility of unpaid liabilities of millions of dollars (including a tax liability quietly hidden in the bottom draw of a desk) the inept Szondy Board lost. The AFL bailed us out and gave us over a million bucks from memory and this at a time when it could have suited them to shunt us off to where ever and get rid of our basket case of a club. Thankfully Demetriou had an expansionist vision and wanted us to both remain in the competition and to stay in Melbourne. Then of course there was the tanking fiasco overseen by an inept Stynes/McLardy Board not voted in by the members but allowed to replace the Gardner Board when they realised and election was unwinnable and it was best for the Club to let Jimmy take over. The tanking fiasco (yes, I know, we didn't tank it was just all a joke) and the inept management that landed us with Neeld, Connolly, McLardy and Schwab as the four pillars on which footy clubs are built left us with an interim coach and a percentage of 52% or thereabouts. The AFL stepped in and provided us with a brilliant CEO and competent Board and the financial support to pay out Schwab (who only months earlier had been granted a contract extension by McLardy), Neeld, Connolly and perhaps a few others. If you think the AFL weren't in control of all that and that Jackson at least initially wasn't totally in control reporting straight to the AFL then you live in a different land to me. The only way Jackson would have taken the job was if he had both total control and the full backing of the AFL. Our part in selecting him would have run something like "if you want AFL support and money appoint this man". And how much more support do you expect from the AFL? Whilst the most embarrassing club in the AFL we held the Queens Birthday fixture and were granted Anzac Eve. How must the Dogs, Saints and Roos felt about that? Annual blockbusters which we have are gold as they don't relate to performance. Many sweat the small stuff but the AFL have brought us back to life with their help and now many here are bemoaning their lack of support. I'm not sure if other clubs are the same but my one true hatred about this club is the inherant victim mentality its supporters have. Thankfully the Club itself doesn't have it. Thank heavens Jackson has a "can do" attitude and understands this game and is positioning us to succeed within it. Yes Red, sadly for some Footy is a business but I reckon there is a very good chance that if it wasn't we'd have joined Fitzroy in the graveyard and then we'd really have something to moan about.

Saty he can share it because this is an opinion based site and ding is entitled to his opinion. Just because u and others don’t agree there is no need to have a go at him.

I am not getting into the prime time debate but am annoyed at your statement that we wouldn't be here without the AFL. Well actually it's the other way round. WE started footy and the AFL exist s because of the clubs. A rigged fixture stops all clubs having the same chance to earn income. Therefore there has to be adjustments. Actually Carlton and StKilda get a bigger AFL grant each year than we do. I am sick to death of the ridiculous argument that when we are good enough we will get a better draw. It is just plainly wrong. The AFL do whatever they want whenever they want. Carlton have not played at Geelong in 10 years, we have 9 out of the last 10. I don't think Pies have either. Geelong at Geelong is basically an automatic loss of 4 points to the away team. No home game against Bombers in 12 years why? The prime time issue is just another inconsistenty issue created by the AFL. The AFL despite what some believe, is not being held accountable by the clubs. We are a game driven by money not fairness.

This attitude has irritated me for the last 12+ years. Hope to build membership? You do realise that people buy memberships regardless of how many games they go to? I lived in Qld for 10 years, could count on one hand how many games I went to in that time where I used my membership. Didn't stop me from being a member though. It's called supporting your club. And this rubbish about building attendance - there is one secret ingredient to building attendance for the MFC, it's called success. For us, it comes in different forms, from playing a good quality/brand of competitive footy, to seeing W's on the board. We are a loyal bunch, we've had to be. If we are up and about, our supporters go to any games, at any time, on any day, providing it's our home game, and it's at our MCG. Too many Melbourne supporters are conditional supporters, which is understandable as we've also had too many players that are conditional players.

We've always elected our own board's and we've always stood on our own 2 feet ... I'm not sure where you get your information from. PJ was recommended to us by the AFL and we duly appointed him. We did receive a one-off grant of 1.4 million dollars in early 2013 but that's it. As a comparison Port Adelaide were helped out to the tune of 14 million because of their lousy stadium deal with footy park. Various other clubs have received large handouts as well in comparison. For further information read our annual reports. I don't believe the scuttlebutt and innuendo from those with obvious agenda's - most of it is lies.

If his son can do anything like his old man could then I think we'll be pretty happy.

From today's AFL article- "All up, an unfortunate pre-season accident led to a need to try new things, and now, Garland – who will also attempt to play for the Casey Demons in 2018 if his knee holds up – is pretty happy with how it's panned out." Would be good to see Col run out for Casey next year

You claim that our '18 fixture is abysmal from an attendance and membership point of view. Wrong. Members should, and many do, sign up regardless of fixture. If someone doesn't sign up because of our fixture, then they are more fickle than I first thought. Attendance should continue to build as this group gets better. They players don't GAF what time they play a game, and the time of the game has nothing to do with their chances of success. The more success they have, the more our crowds, irrespective of game day/time, will grow. We have early success this year, which I think this fixture has definitely set us up to achieve, then memberships and attendance will take care of itself. As a side note, in; 2018 - 14 games in Melbourne, 11 at the MCG 2017 - 14 games in Melbourne, 12 at the MCG 2016 - 14 games in Melbourne, 12 at the MCG Yep, we are soooooooo hard done by in 2018. FMD.

For those that think it doesn't matter, this is why punctuation is important......

Cause for optimism? I had some free time and called SEN yesterday to specifically ask David Schwarz one question that’s been nagging me for years. I know he has a son and was wondering ( hoping ) if he had the makings of a prospective father/son nomination in a few years time David was very honest and admitted that whilst his son played football , he was only 12 and pencil thin , thus not monstering opponents yet . On the positive side he WAS projected to grow to 6’6” ( in the old measurements ) and The Ox hoped he’d be good enough to play for the mighty Dees eventually. We can live and dream? because realistically there’s no other superstars in the recent history of the club that we can hope for similarly gifted offspring.

VP you spoke of the victim mentality in your earlier post. To me your statement above is just that. Are you suggesting that because we have received help, or as I prefer to call it redress or equalisation for rigged income earning fixtures, we are not allowed to feel aggrieved or complain about blatant favouritism in the fixture? The Carlton prime time fixture or playing at Geelong being major examples. I don't accept that receiving some help dooms you to being a passive subservient member of the AFL.

This is the best, and most likely outcome of this whole thing. The fact they have got the 4 Friday games, that's the truly abysmal element of the fixture. We can't change it, so let's just sit back and watch it all crumble for the Blooz.

I know it was the case with Demetriou that his bonus was directly linked to match attendances. One would suspect Gil has something similar. They then have the incentive to maximise those numbers, or at least create the situation for maximum attendances. So given that scenario, they will structure the fixture with the likelihood of maximum personal return. No point sending Collingwood or Essendrug to Geelong as the ground can't fit the numbers. No point playing North against Fremantle at the MCG when they will attract only 20k, much the same as Hobart. Get Carlton playing on Friday night and more numbers will turn up than Carlton on Sunday afternoon or (unfortunately) Melbourne on Sunday afternoon. The fixture is still rigged to maximise the CEO personal return. Our position has improved as we are no longer sent to Etihad ( because we get more spectators at the G). Our position has changed because we have proven to get the crowds to Anzac eve and QB. But it takes a long period of sustained crowd numbers to convince the AFL. Sustained crowd numbers come from SUSTAINED success, not on the back of 1 year ( even if our attendances in that year were in the top quartile of the Teams) We will get a better fixture when we get more numbers to games. Winning alone will not sway City Hall. But winning starts to draw back the interest from the supporters. We need to keep winning, and then keep winning next year and the year after. Then the AFL will take notice.

While R23 was a terrible way to end the year and some supporters were distraught about Jack Watts, I’ve supported the Demons for 50 plus years and will continue to do so regardless of wins or losses and players who come and go. We have a massive upside in our younger players including OMac, Lever, Salem, Hunt, Oliver, Petracca, ANB, Hogan, Brayshaw, and Harmes all who sit in 30-60 game bracket, that’s almost half the team. Another pre season into these players and as they move into 50-80 game bracket we should see them become more consistent, play out the season inc round 23, and then finals! This team has the upside to be our best in the last 50 years, so fingers crossed, keep supporting the Demons and sign up if you can for 2018.

Time to reveal to the footy world that he is a drug addict, serial killer, impossible to Coach, cries in interviews, hates training, is disobedient and forgets people's birthdays.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/more-news/richmond-goes-from-afls-secondeasiest-draw-to-secondhardest-while-collingwood-gets-dream-run/news-story/3402a919643eaab388715b312b99ce0f Draw difficulty Ranking (hardest to easiest) Club 2017 ladder finish (post finals) 1 Fremantle 14th 2 Richmond 1st 3 West Coast 6th 4 Hawthorn 12th 5 St Kilda 11th 6 GWS 4th 7 Melbourne 9th 8 Adelaide 2nd 9 Western Bulldogs 10th 10 Essendon 8th 11 Carlton 16th 12 Brisbane 18th 13 Geelong 3rd 14 Sydney 5th 15 Port Adelaide 7th 16 Gold Coast 17th 17 North Melbourne 15th 18 Collingwood 13th * Draw difficulty as assessed by Champion Data

Like some others, I went very cool on footy after our gutless 'end of year fade-out'. Unlike previous years, my interest in the finals series was barely lukewarm, and it is only now, with the trade period gone and draft approaching, that my interest has been somewhat rekindled. But I always knew that my support for Melbourne will live as long as I do ....... it's in my DNA. A few days ago I renewed memberships for myself and five other family members. It will be their Christmas gift, and they can 'like it or lump it' but I am very confident that it will be the former.

"If we draft Bayley Fritsch, all our pets will become communists and our children will transform in horses."

I'll be renewing but they can bloody well wait. Couldn't muster up a win against a hopeless North from two attempts. Couldn't muster up the prunes to beat a second string Collingwood to give the supporters one measly finals appearance. Meanwhile Richmond, [censored] RICHMOND, plodded their way to a flag on the back of household names like Nathan Broad - a bloke I had not heard of until he snapchatted a stranger with his premiership medallion between her jugs. Yeah, last season still stings.

Macca as my post above suggests whenever we've tried to stand on our "own two feet" as you've suggested we've tripped over badly. We've received handouts twice that I can recall and I've outlined them. Thank heavens they have. We were inept but aren't now because they basically took over control of our club. Those that complain don't understand the concept of biting the hand that feeds you.

So said Julius Caesar when querying Brutus.

How about this crap from the AFL website: under the heading of “The 24 must watch games of 2018”: Round one, Richmond v Carlton MCG, Thursday night “This looms as the biggest season opener Richmond and Carlton have faced off in since it became a traditional clash. The Tigers will unveil their flag to their faithful supporters, who will probably still be delirious. It will also be the first time the teams have played since Bachar Houli left Jed Lamb unconscious after collecting the Blue with his left forearm in round 14. “ WHAT??? The 2017 premiers vs a team that finished in the bottom 4?? How is this a must watch game?

The only option as a fellow mid-week ANZAC combatant Wadda. And they come off a four-day break. In all likelihood will be a horrible game like last year, but there's no reason to think we won't run over the top of them again.

My key metric looking at this draw was the number of back to back 6 day breaks and on that measure my scan so far suggests we have done pretty well. Perhaps it was coincidence, but I recon it was the back to back to back 6 day breaks in the middle of last season that pretty much smashed our season and put us behind the eight ball to make finals there after. In 2018, we get an 8 day break before Queens Birthday, followed by 12 days due to our bye, then from memory another 8 day break or something there after. We do have a short 5 or something day break following our Anzac Eve game, but we will be backing up against Essendon who have one day less break than us, so I think that more than compensates for having that short day break. Apart from that, I think we have the inevitable odd six day break here or there, but never that shocking run we had of them in the middle of last year.

The Carlton Navy gets the gravy and the Demons get the beans. http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/afls-fixture-blue-why-carlton-shouldnt-be-playing-to-many-friday-night-games-20171031-gzbvkg.html

There will be a lot of members that would have opted out of dedicated Demon program, that will explain the difference between this time last year to now. Will be a few that will be wait and see how preseason unfolds and you can't blame them, all we have heard from the club over the past 11 years it the hype of youth and potential, you know what a lot of members aren't buying in on that anymore, we are a laughing stock of the AFL, even the AFL treats us like that. I have lost my kids to other clubs so really for me no point renewing as I won't go to the matches with out them.

Good idea Macca. Ironically not that long ago the five or six powerhouse clubs (including Adelaide and West Coast) used to get together before AFL meetings to discuss their strategy. Not sure if they still do it officially but I am sure they keep the back door communications open. The problems for the lesser clubs is that they have competing agendas in the sense that GCS, GWS, and Brisbane are alter egos of the AFL. That only leaves the four Vic clubs (North, Dogs, Saints and MFC) to argue the alternative strategies.

We may be talking at cross-purposes. You said we had stood on our own two feet. We haven't. Even with your chosen limited time frame we've received handouts. Many haven't. Over a longer period we've received more than most. Hardly standing on our own two feet. And the work PJ has done "is to be expected"?! Wow. If exceptional is to be expected I'd hate to be your employee. He's been unbelievably good. The crowning glory will be to instigate a succession plan that cements his great work.

Sorry to quote myself but that post prompted me to look more closely at options. The club added two new membership packages! Who knew? These new packages are: Demon Seats Plus Open Air https://membership.melbournefc.com.au/packages/view/499/Demon-Seats-Plus-Open-Air Cost (Adult Home Games): $429 Demon Seats Plus Undercover https://membership.melbournefc.com.au/packages/view/85/Demon-Seats-Plus-Undercover Cost (Adult Home Games): $479 After some labourious manual comparisons I found other combos that include the GF guarantee! Compare above to these: Redlegs: Cost (Adult Home Games): $479 (incl Reserved seat and it has more benefits) General Admission: Cost (Adult Home Games): $221 plus GF Guarantee option $229 ie $450! (This will go up to $520 after round 1). Note: there is no Reserved seat attached to this membership combo!! So anyone wanting a GF guarantee should buy one of the packages instead because they get a Reserved seat (really important for potential high attendance games like Anzac Eve and QB when premiums might be charged/reservation fee could be charged). The downside appears to be that members can no longer buy a Membership with Reserved seat without the Grand Final Guarantee option kicking in. (It may be there but I haven't been able to find it on the website). I wonder what people who had the Gen Admiss plus Reserved seat option in 2017 saw on their renewal notice? This could really hurt families who like to have a reserved seat so they sit in 'their seat' within a Demon crowd. It is the most traditional of Club membership and some people would have had the same reserved seats for years. Maybe theseare the 'diehards' that have not renewed because they want a Reserved Seat but not a GF guarantee. I would be interested to know if anyone can find a General Admission plus Reserved Seat option on our website. But who knew about the new packages/chages? How on earth is anyone supposed to easily compare? I'm not having a go at the club here - I genuinely believe there is an issue with the club communicating price and feature changes in a way that is easy for members to work out where they stand and what their options are.

Your naivety is quite funny - you need to take your rose coloured glasses off. MFC would not exist today if it were not for AFL support. "Recommended" - yeah right. You clearly dont understand how the AFL work. Just for the record they also "recommended" our board. "We did receive a one-off grant of 1.4 million dollars" - With no strings attached ??? cough, cough. Get real Macca you read the annual reports - they are a lovely set of numbers now we have an AFL appointed CEO and an AFL approved board. Long may it continue.

I don't know whether McLachlan was being interviewed or whether this comment was in a written statement. But if he was being properly interviewed, he should have been asked, "So, which teams are not well coached? And who is not building a strong team?" Unfortunately, apart from a couple of proper journalists, AFL HQ gets away with spouting such nonsense because most AFL accredited media are too scared to ask critical questions like these for fear of missing a seat on the gravy train. Or they're too stupid. Or both.

I think it's a bit early to talk non-renewals... The way the season finished left a bad taste but I'm sure the diehards will be back once the dust has settled (for all the BS being talked) and membership will take a big jump as we head for finals and top 4 is in sight. I've been in no hurry to renew but will soon enough.

I’m stuck between a rock and a hard place on this one Ding. The problem is, and this is my biggest issue, the GF guarantee fee is automatically charged with the membership renewal... I believe they should not have done that and that it should be something you opt into, rather than out of. If that had been the case, then I probably would have held off until later in the season. My son has been through a lot having had an arthroscopy at age 13 two years ago, and more recently a full knee reconstruction after reinjuring the knee in what was essentially his first game back this year; so I think he’s had enough disappointments for one so young. If we make the GF and I couldn’t get seats after promising him I would, I wouldn’t be able to live with myself (not to mention the personal disappointment after waiting 54 years to actually see us win a GF... could only listen on the radio back in ‘64).

We get queens bday and Anzac eve both of which are much bigger than Friday night. Taking those into account we have 1 x Friday night game and 2 additional blockbuster games. No complaints from me

And with us playing on Sundays in cuts down on the news-cycle before our weekly rectory session at the tribunal.

When the AFL converts to AFLX in a couple years and they add in a basketball hoop for the Mega-Points Power-Play it will all make perfect sense.

On the outside it had the all the makings of a benign communal love-in, like one of those threads with 'Neville Jetta' in the title. Michael Hibberd speaks about Jake Lever coming to the club - two recent AA-quality recruits to our defensive unit. We express our mutual happiness, congratulate the club, and look forward to our bright future with a warm fuzzy glow in our hearts. Nek Minnit: Demonland - post-season 2017 version.

Think the AFL may have caught wind of Viney and Lever going toe-to-toe in the ring, and with Tomas Bugg fresh in mind, thought it perhaps best to keep us out of the prime-time slots. Bring on Unsociable Sundays!

It is a worry. There's no hiding from the slump in comparative figures. There may be an innocuous explanation which will correct itself, but ding has fronted up and given his personal reasoning, which whether anyone agrees with it not, fits within the narrative of greatest concern - members are especially angry with the club this year over a combination of (late or post-season) factors and are prepared to bite off their noses (for the time being at least). Acknowledging such an occurrence isn't a criticism of the club - they would have had a pretty good idea of the impact in moving on Jack - but also would have weighed it up as a one-step-back-two-steps-forward overall strategic approach. Sustained on-field success is the only reliable tonic, and we have everyone at the club now driving toward this result. It may be the membership recession we had to have. Here's hoping some of the anger will subside soon after the boys strap on the boots for pre-season training - boys including Jack Viney, Clayton Oliver, Jesse Hogan, Christian Petracca, Angus Brayshaw, Jayden Hunt, Christian Salem, and, drum roll, Jake Lever, and that chaps like ding will get back on board - but here's hoping more so that we finally win a bloody flag and don't have to concern ourselves anymore with supporters being in a huff.

Financially: 12/21 on FTA - Good Q'Bday and Anzac Eve - Good Very few Thurs/Fri nights - bad No etihad home game - good Our first 6 MCG home games come against Vic sides, should average 45k+ to those games and bank profits - good Football: Repeat against Geel, Adel, St K, WB, GC - Ok, not too unfair - Saints and Dogs could be the same as this year, Crows almost certain to go backwards, Cats a good test 4/5 at the G to start - Great! 3 finalists in the first 9 games and all of those in Melbourne. 3/4 at the G to finish - nice, not too much travel leading in to finals Only 11 games at the G - yuck All in all I don't think it's as bad as some are making out. Silver lining on getting screwed on Friday night games and extra Sunday's = no players going out on the beers after Friday nights and getting in trouble!

I hope we take Fritsch is he is available. Not impressed by any highlights of the under 18's. I don't profess to know a lot about them as I don't get to many TAC games anymore. Stopped going last year. But young Fritsch looked good at Casey and shows a decent amount of upside. I'd take a stringy lad - who has senior footy experience and upside - ahead of an unproven commodity. A lot of room for improvement.

Give it a rest creepy Jesus. If that’s how Ding feels and what he’s decided to do then so be it.

Goodwin knows it. That’s why he took the punt with Watts. No doubt about it. He knows his coaching career is on the edge... Round 23 was pathetic, a few players are bloody lucky to survive

The evening before Anzac Day is akin to a Friday evening game. People will go because they have the next day off work.

Well done Moonie! I understand the second Trident would be purely a donation as no one would want to go with you.

I would be disappointed if the reasons you stated for not renewing are real but I am not arguing that people wouldn't be that superficial. It's good that you raise this as it makes it hard for the club and loyal supporters to challenge the absolute disdain that the AFL treats our club as it proves we are lightweights compared to most of the others. We have improved in so many areas as a club but not in the eyes of the AFL as fixtures of recent years and other decisions attest (eg $500k fine for being NOT GUILTY of tanking). We continue to be rogered at any opportunity. I hate the style of the bullies in clubland but they get what they want from the AFL. If you have the brand and the memberships you will get your way - just shout louder if it doesn't happen initially. We can't use that tactic because we are not respected. I don't know if anything other than success will change things but we can play a role. I cannot fault the club in it's efforts and direction to achieve this and I and the other 21,899 will enjoy it so much more knowing we have and will always stick fat. I have personally been responsible for 10 ongoing MFC Memberships over the years and see it as a responsibility to sell and lobby membership to 'barrackers'. The incumbent staff/board can't do it without the support of us true believers. We finally have more than hope to sell so challenge those supporters you know to be members.

Essendon and Carlton have always had influence within the AFL .i.e. Fitzpatrick and Ron Evans previously and I have little doubt that these clubs still carry disproportionate influence. It's a compromised draw and, once more, we've got the rough end of the pineapple. Carlton with four Friday night games is nudge, nudge, wink, wink stuff. The sooner that polo playing poonce moves on the better.

I think he might be the reason we got one.