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Abort Misson?

Don't agree Rusty I think the mid part of the season with the excessive travel and 6 day breaks had an impact. Another pre season + 20/30 games for our nucleus then you'll see the benefits of a structured plan

Adelaide did exactly what they should have in Round 23. They rested 50/50 players before a finals campaign. Why risk more injury when your Top Position is locked. The MFC were mentally weak during the same round, which is what we should concentrate on fixing.

Lever was ultra reliable last night. Was beaten one on one once. In the first minute of the game. His disposal efficiency was elite. The new pay deal changes the actual worth of those big deals in a way as well 800k a year is what 650k a year is worth under the previous agreement and lever is worth every cent

Gold Coast are weak if they send ablett to geelong I would make the sook play out his contract or put him into retirement

The MRP will rule that Cotchin wasn't even on the ground and that Shiel got concussed before the game when Phil Scully slapped him on the back.

Thought they were both going for the ball...

Anyone trying to blame Adelaide for us not playing finals is just embarrassing themselves.

He's got plenty of experience but I reckon a change is needed. I reckon Burgs would appreciate a different interviewee as well.

were you guys watching a different game.... not even in their top 15 in tonight's game I am sure he is better but not tonight Would you call him in the top 3 or 4 Crows players because that is what we are going to pay this guy... $800k per year ??

Johnson and Delidio both liabilities, SJ probably cost them the game at a critical juncture trying to smart arse.

Richmond in the Grand Final makes me want to puke.

Your neuroses (and a couple others) are all over this thread - extensive and raw and occasionally slimy and sticky - and I do worry whether this is pervasive across the broader Demon fan base. Watts is not the reason we didn't play finals. Watts is not the reason we didn't play finals. A team is made up of a collection of individuals with their own issues and talents, bringing ranging form and frustrating injuries. The failure to kick another two goals over the course of the season is the collective failure of the team; a number of injuries and medical absences to key players, the dipping of form of number of important players, the mistakes of a novice coach, and the nonchalance of an arrogant young team. The reason I bring this up in yet another 'Watts [censored] Off' thread is because rarely do non-core, non-bedrock players get so much heat for all the failings of a club. Jack is a high HF/wing with excellent vision, skills and footy IQ. Watts at his best is not the foundation for a finals winning team; he relies on others to get him the ball, and others to get the ball to, requiring, in some cases, great talent to start and finish his work. And yet, who is the player who gets the most ire? Who is the one 'we gotta get rid of (snort)'? This role player who played 8 good games out of 12, 3 poor ones in that 12, had a bad hamstring, played 3 more poor games, paid for it, and was one of about 3 players that showed up on time against Collingwood in the last round. This is the scapegoat for 2017. Him again?! Goodwin won't realise it for a decade but he should in his last press conference , or his after match conference, woken from his near comatose state that he seemingly is in all his conferences and lifted the burden from a player and spread it around or put it on himself. This rant isn't a defence of Watts - it is an indictment on some of you, my comperes, for showing little to no desire to look beyond the easy answer and perpetuate this flagellation and blame for someone who may leave in a couple weeks but in no way will solve 'The Demon Question' - whether he stays or goes. Remember, it was Watts who said to Paul Roos in a plea for him to come (not for himself to leave mind you) - 'I just want to be treated like a human being...'

I love Ablett to Geelong, as it means another year trying to milk success out of an aging list while not developing their next generation. The cliff when it comes (2019 be my guess) will be brutal.

tigers recruiting has been inspired, and i for one love the way they've reconstituted their side to become a grand final team they are great to watch

I'm not jealous Jane. I'm still bitterly disappointed in our club and [censored] off to an unhealthily pathological level

Tom $cully F U

His biggest assets are his leadership and composure. Especially for a player his age

It's a demonland first... A whipping boy who is yet to play a game for us let alone be on our list

Fair few there you're over rating. i think it's assured he will finish top 10 in their B&F and probably top 5. Will be interesting to see. Also we are talking about a kid 5 years away from his best footy with 10 years probably left. Not exactly apples with apples.

Torn on this one somewhat The first final and majority of the season shows you the reason why you steer clear. Not to mention his very inconsistent career to date. The last 2 finals and a stint during the year while Selwood was out show you the obvious benefits for taking a punt. As a FA the positive is not giving anything up. I'll leave this one up to the footy department

Interesting thing would be to go through their side and see where Lever is rated. I doubt he would be rated in their top 10. As an example start with the Crouch's, Sloane, Tex, Sauce, Eddie, Laird, Cameron, Talia, Smith,McGovern and there is 11 already. PS. No wonder they are in the GF.

Never hurt Gibson, a very valuable player at Hawthorn. A couple of B&F's in premiership years. Look he's still a developing kid but with some runs on the board. I don't think we will pay overs for him and his best is yet to come. I wouldn't define him on his career to date apart from saying noting his talent, and I definitely wouldn't define him on last nights game where he wasn't a standout but played his role. He had some really good moments and a few average ones that you would expect from a player of his age and experience.

And I reckon the Tigers making the GF gives our club more hope on top of the Bulldogs making it (and winning it) last season. Both teams have exhibited a form of 'total' football with a sprinkling of game-changers and match-winners. Like all the other clubs and the coaches & players associated with those clubs, a fairly clear picture is painted with regards to what is needed to get to the GF. The Crows are a more traditional GF team in terms of talent but that doesn't mean they're over the line. The ball is well and truly in our court ... we've now got a decent base to work from but we need an injection of talent.

F$&@k Tom $cully btw

didn't realise stuie was transgender - lol

Stanley had the job last night.

Close thread, no worthy of further discussion.

No way. We would miss his smiling face and comedic presence around the place

Another thing to be noted with Lever is that opposition teams have been running a defensive forward against him to try and take him out of the game, keep him away from the footy. It's happened in both finals, so it looks like the coaches rate him.

Interesting hearing Scott claim that Cats fans were kidding themselves if they thought getting to a Prelim meant just needing to top up and get a little better next year. Then there's this strong talk of GAJ going back to the Cats at age 68 or whatever he is. Not exactly what I thought was meant when Scott said "go back to the start again", but I guess he meant go back to GAJ!

Certainly hope a Mr Goodwin & Co were watching intently. That said, hope our list in the main were also. A particular irony of sorts I thought as Adelaide did to the Pvssies effectively what we did to them !!. We can get it right...sometimes Adelaide's composure under onslaught was a major differentiation last night. Lever seldom seems to get flustered.. Amazing that hes only 21. Old head , young shoulders. Hope we get him .

I think Cat's kicking efficiency was probably the sole reason why their key forwards didn't do much, it was atrocious, gys like Lever who plug the holes will always get marks. Does anyone know the disposal efficiency of both sides? One thing that stood out to me and nothing to do with Lever was how quick you can score when not over hand balling the bloody thing, kicking moves it quicker and puts pressure on the opposition. Funnily, the last 3 sides left play this attacking style that kicking as a way to move the ball quickly, GWS Rich and ADEL. Compare that to our rubbish slop chop around packs and we have a bit to work on. Also does anyone have the kick to h'ball ratio for the crows? I think that's how I'd like to see the Dee's move the ball going forward.

The Crows Tom Lynch is the exact player Jack Watts could have been if he had worked hard and took footy seriously.

I'd wear Watts for Stringer. But not much less than that. I've now accepted that there's a fair bit of confirmation bias going on with my view in relation to Watts. That said, I just want him to remain a Demon. I don't know the bloke from a bar of soap, but I'd love to see him lift the cup wearing the red and the blue. I think it would endorse that everything we've endured over the past decade had been worth it. Vindication territory. He's emblematic of this. In a sense, I feel like Watts' journey has become our journey. I hope he stays. And delivers.

You are allowed to admit you are wrong at least once, it is not too difficult. Stop changing the goalposts by bringing in new criteria. You made a statement, so stand by it. You also don't need to try and belittle my footy knowledge, inferring I know nothing about the game, it doesn't help your position or win an argument.

Agreed. We only trade for best 22 for the next 5 years. Depth should come from those already on the list, by bringing in better talent to relegate current MFC players to 'depth'.

Crazy isn't it, Rockliff doesn't even play for GWS.

I wonder if Motlop could be better if he were played more as a deep forward to help out Jeffry? Would add some real speed and class up there

If that's Stuie. I could almost put up with her BS.

Are you seriously trying to suggest he is worth just a third rounder? Bloke still has years of footy left and can be a matchwinner on his day. Consistency issues aside, you could easily get a late first rounder for him. No way we give him away for that. I'd rather keep him.

Our problems are above the shoulders. Dave Misson has trained Olympians End of discussion

Agreed. In these finals hardly any team has played a 'zone defence'. Sydney, Richmond and Adelaide have almost exclusively played 'man on man' when defending and kicking to position to control the ball when attacking. None of them have leaked goals 'out the back'. It is also how Hawthorn won 3 flags in a row. Like you RN, I worry about our game plan which relies on zone defence, manic running at all costs and happy hand balling. I am hoping our game plan quickly becomes more conventional - perhaps a bit more of the Paul Roos style of 'defence first', if we want to progress deep into September. It will be easier to maintain control and composure than our manic running style that has a higher risk of turnovers.

The only reason he did not make the 40 all Australian pre squad is two things, the Will Schofield dive, and the don't touch me ever again incident with the blues scum, I hated the way the club hanged him out to dry, if that was one of the Scott twins they would have backed their player, they would have said that the spectator shouldn't have put his hands out to touch the player. The way the club put all the fault on Oliver.

I have heard that Lucas had mental health issues also which may have contributed to him not reaching his full potential. Sad if true and I hope he's doing OK. Too young for having to deal with that crap.

Exactly and thats why we shouldn't pay overs. As for Gibson, more often than not he played on all the key forwards and was predominately a KPP. Also, I have watched Lever every game this year, my wife is a Crows supporter and rate him highly, but he isn't worth 2 first rounders.

This is exactly the reason I don't think we should pay overs, he isn't a CHB at all. He's a floater and intercept player who plays loose in defence. He will never be a key position player so we, as a club, need to be careful/mindful what we pay him and give up for him. On last nights game, he isn't worth two first rounders nor one of our kids. He's worth pick 10 and that's it. He also doesn't have great skills either. What he does bring is consistency, leadership and reliability, but that isn't worth two first round picks IMO.

For what it's worth, this is highly consistent with what I've been told, but you have more detail about the nature of the problem. My source was a bit more insistent that the club believed that the option with the most potential to deal with the problem was to trade out Stringer, as this was likely to stop them having to trade out others, though this may still have to be done. The nature of the contact with my source meant that it wouldn't have been appropriate to press them further.

Best player for the Cats in the last two finals, why not revive the discussion? Showed some great run tonight in the mould of Daniel Wells, ie effortlessly a pace ahead of everyone and most of his disposals were very silky and leading his team mates into space. In the top 5 for distance covered per match too apparently.

Tough crowd..