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Ok...I like good healthy debate as many of us do on here. Before I go on & make some points let me say this. I've read through here and am in total agreement with 'Hardtack' and am totally disgusted with the way one of our players has been hung out to dry. I also think a lot of supporters and I use the term loosely need to calm down and make a logical assessment of where we are... I've been critical of some of things Goodwin has done and like others think we probably over use the ball. Our skill level is not good enough yet for the game style. I do think we have issues with the list but I'm pretty sure those in charge understand & will work to fix it, we have what we have for season 2017. A few of things keep coming to mind though. 1. I think Goodwin's working well with what he has. How he manipulated the situation with EFC was masterful coaching. How we ran over the Saints, similar. 2. We've been in every game we've played, probably the only team to do so this season which means we are more consistent than we get credit for. Yes, I would like a better win loss record & I get p....off too. We all seem to agree our defence is not great but somehow we manage to stay in games. The coach must be doing something right. 3. The big one that keeps coming back to me though is Clarkson's situation early days at Hawthorn. I remember the complaints at the time from fans and so called experts in the media about the game style, lack of skill & how they mucked around to much with the pill. So I went back & cut some quotes from articles about that time...season 2006. The part comment in bold probably sums things up pretty well. .....Clarkson implemented clear ball movement patterns and structures during his first two seasons, but wins were limited because his team did not have the experience or skill level to carry them out........ ......Dunstall said calls for Clarkson's head were reflective of the emotion that accompanied roller-coaster performances. "After week one (when Hawthorn beat Fremantle), I was approached by people saying, 'Why hasn't the coach been re-signed?' After week two and a bad loss, they are asking, 'Does he know what he's doing?' That's how fickle the game is." According to Dunstall, the league's most inexperienced coach will not be affected by the criticism. "He'll hear it and it might be a little bit of baggage he carries outside the club, but he'll cope very well with that," Dunstall said...... ......The Hawks stated a mid-season review would settle the future of their coach in 2006 as they decided to extend Clarkson's contract. Bookies at the time questioned what right he still had being head coach of a footy club. They finished the season well (won their last 4) but those 9 games that they won in 2006 (5 in 2005) were against Carlton twice, Essendon twice, and a pathetic Geelong twice with the other three wins coming at 'defacto Glenferrie' Aurora Stadium, Tasmania. He was pilloried for having an awful gameplan, based on this nonsense of over-possession that was seen as the latest fad. He stuck to his gameplan and overhauled the list to get players to the club that could handball and run and carry the football....

While I sympathise with all long suffering Dees supporters (I myself am one, but tip my hat to those who have been suffering a lot longer than I have), I would encourage them to look at the club in its present state. While it might feel like we're in the midst of the 8th version of a rebuild, looking at the club right not it's hard to argue we're not on the right track. Competitive - yes Playing exciting football - yes (well for 50-75% of a game) Retaining our key players - yes Attracting quality players - yes Increased membership - yes Try and draw a line in the sand pre & post Roos/PJ era. It's hard to do I know, but you can't overlook the significant strides we've taken over the last 3.5 years as a club, and only dare to dream what the next 3.5 years might hold.

Quality post. There's a clear difference between 2010 and now and I'm very sorry for you if you cannot see that. I'm 100% behind the club and very confident of impending success. I think Simon Goodwin and the FD are doing a great job. I accept that there will be some mis-steps along the way but overall we're on track. The irony will be that "supporters" like the guy who wrote this letter and other wrist-slashers here will think that their expression of despair woke the club up and somehow contributed to our success. Go Demons!

No use explaining it rationally mate, misery loves company and some people on here would rather talk about curses and demand action from the president (?) than stick fat with the club and players.

I also think it's the fact that many supporters are still adjusting to the idea that we are a decent footy side - in the past a loss like Sunday's would have brought praise, but now we are changing our perspective and expectations and we're almost going too far with it. Now that we have some talent we just expect finals to happen, for the wins to roll in and for the success to come quicker than it should. It will happen, but we still need to be patient, even if we don't know how to do that with a young side choc full of talent. And this year is nothing like 2010, either. Nothing at all. No similarities whatsoever. Back then we would still get creamed by sides, come out and win next week, then go out and get creamed again. This time around we are constantly in games and you feel as though we aren't far away from 'clicking'. It's a shame the guy who cut up his membership isn't sane enough to enjoy it.

I'm not sure what the rules are for posting articles but i found this one a particularly insightful and thorough one with a few surprises from an outside perspective. http://www.theroar.com.au/2017/05/10/the-shoulda-coulda-woulda-melbourne-demons-could-be-the-afls-2017-what-if/

We have lost 4 games by a combined margin of 47. We've won 3 games by a combined margin of 90. That tells me we are doing a lot right, but a little luck and a little lack of composure has cost us. Still very positive for the year ahead, and even if we don't make finals the young players are learning to face adversity and be resilient. Those that can't won't make it, but the ones that do will be preparing for an even bigger test, finals footy.

Racism is the discrimination against an individual based on their race. Let it be clear that not a single person here or in the media has ever made any sort of racist determination in this instance. There may have been examples of 'profiling' - the expectation that JKH should be some freakishily-skilled small-forward - and then some generally embarrassing confusion in identification - the inability of commentators to correctly pick Garlett from Jetta from Jay (I was getting Hunt and Wagner mixed up on the weekend if this is any sort of consolation), but no-one is judging JHK based on race. The very suggestion is upsetting.

lol who sends letters? Is it 1989?

The bloke bought a membership and is entitled to an opinion I don't agree with much of his view, or his somewhat embarrassing meltdown, but it's his right to have a voice in a free society. Naturally, it's your right to be outraged if you so desire. I find the outrage almost as funny as his meltdown. It's just not a big deal.

JT does everything JKH can do but better and with more leadership. He should get a go based solely on that.

As we all know, the damage was done in the first quarter and given the heat that's been applied to our defence here, it's interesting to see how the Hawks got their five first quarter goals Ist quarter Goal – O’Brien. approx 15 min remaining. Salem spoils an Oliver uncontested mark at half back. Unforced error – lack of talk / awareness. Turnover Goal – Roughead. 10 min remaining. Rioli from stoppage to Gunston to Roughead who “outmuscled” Frost (in the back for mine). Good passage from Hawks Goal – Gunston 9.30 remaining. Frost flies for a mark uncontested. Straight through his hands to Gunston who goals off a step. Skill error Goal – Bruest. 6.30 remaining. Jones shocking turnover on the left foot after marking kick-in. No pressure. Ball to top of goal square. All our blokes up & ball spills to Puopolo who handballs to Bruest. Comedy of errors but started with Jones Goal – McEvoy after siren. With 20 seconds remaining Hibberd kicks OOtF under no pressure. Resulting I50 kick sets up McEvoy’s mark (aided by a massive block from Roughead which took out OMac & Hunt – questionable legality as he wasn’t contesting) Four of the five came from us shooting ourselves in the foot in uncontested situations. In each of those four cases the footy should have been on our side of the centre instead of sailing through their sticks Furthermore, any chance we had to hit the scoreboard ourselves was derailed in the same fashion. Here's just a few of the momentum killers : 7.30 remaining. Jeffy misses set shot after patient build up 3.40 remaining. Jones marks at high half forward & misses pass to Vince just on 50. Hardwick marks uncontested 1.40 remaining. Jones marks in space & passes directly to Langford who marks uncontested in our F50 There were other midfield turnovers that had Hawthorn streaming forwards that thankfully didn't hurt us on the scoreboard. Unforced errors as opposed to turnovers from pressure are killing us. If we can improve this area then perhaps we'll a) win more games and b) be able to more fairly assess our defence

Right, so now JKH's name is splattered all over the Herald Sun. It is disgraceful. Ox has a lot to answer for reading out his name as has SEN for distributing the letter with JKH (and other names) name not deleted. Ditto the HS. I'll repeat what I said yesterday. Its one thing for Ox and Lyon to criticise the club we love, the club that made them great but I don't like the way they sink the boots in. I don't hear T Watson, Lloyd, Carey, Darcy etc sink the boots in to their old clubs or naming young players when they have a bad run - they are able to criticise without the resultant headlines attracting ridicule to their clubs or players. Just when we were on the verge of getting some respect back we become the media's punching bag again. Sadly it has been our own hero's leading the charge.

Write another letter to Goodwin.

This is no different than any caller on any of the radio stations bagging out players. FFS compared to Watts JKH has nothing to complain about. Yes, Ox read it out. SEN would have have told him to. Others at other clubs cop it worse than this.

Nonsense. That is just a stupid saying. It is pure bad luck that Max and then Spencer went down. Those injuries have cost us several games. How do you suggest we should have avoided that. Luck has always played a big part in sport and life for that matter.

In 2010 Bailey was in his 3rd year But if you want to continue wallowing in misery and self pity go right ahead. There are none so blind as those who will not see

Singling out JKH and public shaming him is just awful. This bloke can stay away from the Dee's for good.

Absolutely agree with all of this and yes, unfair to single out a young player like that. What also irks me about this clown's attention-seeking dummy spit is this: A dear friend of mine had his heart broken into many pieces in 1996 when his beloved Fitzroy folded and merged with the Bears. He has a brilliant football mind and supported his team through some bleak decades with great, unwavering passion. An avid football fan, he couldn't bring himself to even watch another game until only recently, the pain of losing his club was so great; let alone consider supporting Brisbane. When listening to people talk passionately about footy, he describes a deep envy for their ability to invest emotion into a game they love and take the ride with their team. That was taken away from him. So when I see of this dlckhead behaving like a petulant, 2-year old Richmond supporter and trashing his membership, I would urge him to consider losing your club. Just think about that. We would know, as we came so close to merger ourselves. Yes, we have the right to our expectations and our reactions. But through all the highs and lows, the frustration, angst, nervousness, adrenaline and joy we experience, we have this club and they have us. Let us not take that for granted. To to this guy I say grow the [censored] up, get a grip and have some perspective. If you think publicly denigrating the club and unfairly singling out a young bloke who is trying to find his way and a new coach after only 7 games is okay, then you don't deserved to be a part of the MFC. End rant.

Let me guess the two indicators. 1.Points for at the final siren 2.Points against at the final siren.

Brayshaw is the sort of guy I'd be happy to just give say 6 straight games to build form, when he's back and fit

Pathetic.

Thought I'd start a thread acknowledging Bernie who is set to play his 200th game this weekend. Fittingly it will be against his old club who he played 129 of those games for. He has been a great leader for this club since joining and I think took his footy to a new level. I'd like to see Bernie finish his career playing more forward than back as I think he would be more damaging there.

I will put it simply for all those supporters who dream of success. The Melbourne Football Club onfield cannot be trusted, it cannot be trusted to get the job done when it is capable of doing so. This is this clubs biggest challenge for its supporters and the wider football community. Until the team realise this they will not be trusted. I have supported the club for over 40 years, I do not trust this club to do what is must. I want to trust them but I can't. When I turn up to the MCG to watch the demons I have no idea if they will win or not. That is a trust issue.

After reading Plapp's VFL review I'm thinking Stretch and Kent come in. Both appear to have addressed the issues that saw them out of the senior side. Probably for Bugg & JKH VFL Player Report

It's like he was worried and had a premonition what was going to happen. And so did a lot of supporters. After 3 minutes it was so obvious who controlled the head space in the game. The problem sticks out like a sore thumb. The solution is yet to be found.

He is worth much, much more than what we'd receive.

The bloke gave Ox the opportunity who then took it. Ox was 100% in control.

Quoted because "like" is not enough

The bloke didn't publicly shame him, Ox did.

The Geelong game was a young side at the end of a season with nothing to play for. Our big losses back in 2010 were still happening in the middle of the year with plenty on the line. Totally different. And two of our losses this year were on the back of our ruckman going down before half time. The other 2 we lost by 3 points. We aren't that far away and, again, it's totally different to those years prior.

He isnt jumping ship 7 games into a season. He is jumping ship after 11 years of no finals and 53 years of no ultimate success. And in that 11 years the majority of it has been floggings week in week out, not finishing 9th.

Also not factual, Jack Reiwoldt hardly got a touch in our previous three encounters with the tigers. Due to have one good game. No respect? Rubbish! All 7 teams who have played us this year know they have been playing! Have a look at the relieved faces of the teams that scraped home against us. Richmond players were ecstatic to have won against an injury hit team with only two players on the bench. No doubt because they had not beaten us for three years. Sad that the writer saw fit to criticise Goodwin after just 7 games. Already, Simon has instilled hardness and a strong never give up attitude. We are certainly not a bruise free football team anymore. Simon just now has to develop that all important facet of our game CONSISTENCY! He will I am sure. Our best quarters are blindingly brilliant. Wait till we put four of them together and feel pity for the opposition. It's going to happen oh faithful ones. Go Melbourne!

Would love to see Brayshaw back in form at MFC. Key part of our future. I see him as a rotating mid coming off the bench. Though needs 2-3 weeks at Casey first.

Perhaps, but I find it extremely distasteful that this letter has been spread through the media, singling out and no doubt completely humiliating JKH. I don't care what anyone thinks of his skills, or lack thereof, this should NOT have been put out there for the world to see... JKH is a young player trying against all odds to become the best footballer he can and then he is hit with this???? To put it mildly, I was disgusted and I don't know who I dislike more... the moron that wrote the letter, or the morons sharing it all over the internet and the media outlets displaying it in related articles.

"I'm not proud of this club and the excuses and promises after every loss". As a supporter, I am not proud that one of our so called supporters would jump ship 7 games into the season (and chop up his membership), and blame the loss squarely at the feet of a coach 7 games into his tenure. After the last 10 years we've endured, and comparing where we are now as a club to then, I hardly think now is the time to be chucking a tantrum!

Just re read an article after the Bombers win, where Goodwin said he would get the side ready for a fired up Hawks team who would try to jump us. Think he failed.

Sunday was the first game 'we' didn't lose, but the opposition won. A team with 15 (1,2,3or4) premiership players who have played together for 6-10 yrs & who got their Mojo back(Lewis & Hibberd have played together twice!) Against the best coach of the modern era vs a 7 game coach. With major injuries to important players (Was it 41 touches plus a goal for Gawn last year against the Hawks?). We were still in it after not showing up for half! The injuries have exposed our lack of depth and the fact we need one more yearly list turnover! As Jones said today the positive is that in addition to our new game style which has us up in the top KPI's, we have learnt to play differently, we have challenged players in roles that they may have not played otherwise & hence have made changes through necessity that will be of use in the future as it finally all comes together. When we finally get our 'best' 22 on the park. As frustrating as it is our best 22 are still being worked out = rollercoaster = Selection issues/mistakes. Our best football will be in the second half of the year.

Gus is perhaps a little like Salem. Last year we wondered whether he could overcome the thyroid problem or should we just cut our losses. We backed the medical team and now we have a good player. Same with Gus.. the upside is very high... trade for a second round and we are most likely to end up with an average player at best and moreover it will take that player two years to hit a reasonable peak. Okay we could trade for a third year player but we would get a "soldier type player" at best. Gus gets this year and next to show his wares.

Our backline leaks like a sieve and we need to recruit a top line defender/backline general to stop the flow of goals against us that the current crop seem incapable of doing. It is too common to see out of form players kick big scores against us like Hawkins. JackR, Roughy, McCarthy and even O'Brien, who had kicked 3 goals in 6 games kicks 2 against us. Daniher had 9 shots at goal in the first half and the game would have been over at half time if he'd kicked straight. There is a fundamental flaw in our game plan that allows the opposition to score so easily and it is easy, yet we bomb the ball in to our forward line and they seem to have a player drop back and mark, so often, unopposed We also have to look at those players that are permanently scarred and just turn it up when we play against certain sides that have had the wood on us for years.

Don't be silly, 'bub. Why would Ox pass on a letter and a cut up membership? What benefit would that be? The bloke in question knew exactly what he was doing.

Have three, two girls and a younger boy. Girls know the drill and are Dee fans, the brainwashing has commenced with the two year old lad, but living in the West there's a fair amount of Bulldogs sway around town and he loves listening to the Dogs theme song a bit more than the Dees. I have a bit of work to do!

You just have to laugh, whilst I love the guys passion, It's very hard to dump a truck load of snow at the clubs front door (SEN caller) As for JKH I seem to remember similar comments about Nev Jetta a few years ago, a bloke who was delisted and re rookied and now one of the first picked in the side. Some players take time to gain the experience and confidence to play their best footy. I don't know if it will happen but I hope so.

We've had bugger all success for so long , with the same tired lines trotted out time after time that it wouldn't surprise me if they are now embedded in the clubs Constitution !! Personally after half a century and more of f all achievement by the MFC , I like many of my kindred pay no heed nor give any weight to ANYTHING the club, the coaches or players SAY anymore. It's worthless. We only take notice of what the Dees DO ( thats painful enough lol ). Again everyone has a tipping point. I dont think this bloke thought it through but i dont think he expected it to be showcased either. Naive perhaps I'd agree. SEN being what they are..well... Unfortunately for Harris hes a non AFL std player. He got singled out. He did so because as the writer suggests Goody seems to be persistent in a direction which quite frankly needs revision. It aint working. This has been the camel breaker for the member and is his perogative to cancel should he feel like. There is more to enjoying life than footy, Especially for a Dees Supporter. I would be surprised if the writer had any beef really with JKH as such. I dont. Thats not the actual point of the angst. The author is seeing it as symtomatic of continued failure and has had enough. I find it funny that elsewhere im said to not understand forests and trees. The member was fed up. This particular issue just put the necessary extra gravity to finally destroy whatever patience he had left. Tbh . I empathise.

Look to the hill SBF, I'll be there with 2 blokes from work. One a mad Dee as well, the other a crows [censored]. we will be stationed on the hill either drowning the sorrows or gleefully going bananas.

I'm a little late to this party but here goes: OUT: JKH, Hannan, Wagner IN: Kent, Stretch, Trengove

I'm as frustrated as anyone but demanding calls for the president to come out and address things, questioning the co-captaincy, going back to the "woe is me we're cursed, same old Melbourne" [censored] is what I'm referring to. People need to take a step back and get some perspective, we are improving we've been on the wrong end of some genuine 50/50 games and have had a pretty wretched run with injuries too. Losing sucks and I'm not happy we've lost winnable games but there's being unhappy then there's being irrationally hostile towards the club.

We are the youngest side in the comp and we have no ruckman. We are about where we should be, not on the bottom, not in the eight, but on the cusp. We will get better and better and better as time goes on, I know we all want it now but we are learning some valuable lessons at the moment that will make us stronger. We are being hardened,it's all part of the process. Im certain the inner sanctum still has faith and belief despite all the noise.

Be annoyed that we are so weak that we require a loss we shouldn't have had to motivate us.... again.

We win this week, if we can keep Tex to 2 goals or less. Jetta will hold Betts. Hogan to kick 4, Viney to have 36 and the Dees will be back on track with the next 3 wins.