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I'm not worried about Hogan any more because we've always got Dawes.

One win like that won't make a great deal of difference either way. Give me a slow(ish) burn any day of the week over a rapid rise if the fast rise doesn't result in a flag, but gradual ascension paves the way to real success. Port had a fast rise under Hinkley and lost a prelim in 2014 by a goal, but it's meaningless if it doesn't eventuate in a flag. And has Footscray's "rapid rise" really been that fast ? Imo, their rebuild started with Brendan McCartney in 2012 and is being carried through by Beveridge. They drafted Wallis and Liberatore in 2010, Stringer, Macrae and Hunter in 2012, and Bontempelli in 2013. These players along with Murphy, Matthew Boyd, Morris, Wood and Picken form the nucleus of their core group. So from 2013 they've had 90% of the building blocks in place. I doubt they'll win a flag in 2016, so it's likely to stretch into 5 years +. I really like what they're doing, but it's not an overnight success and real improvement has been gradual. Have people forgotten what Paul Roos took over ? In October 2013 we were a 2 win/54% team. The same year the Dogs were an 8 win/85% team. See how far ahead they were ? There's a chance Essendon will have a better year with half a team. Beat the Lions and they'll be a 2 win/60+% team. The Lions are in disarray and by year's end will be in similar circumstances to the Melbourne of 2013. And let's not forget that one of our wins was against a fledgling expansion club in the Giants, who won one for the year, so under normal circumstances we were a one win team in 2013. Who here expects the Lions to be playing finals in 2019 ? Anyone ? Because that would be the equivalent of Melbourne playing finals in 2016 based on the side and club Roos took over. In 2013 we won 20 quarters at a success rate of 23%. We're on track to win 43 quarters this year and are presently tracking at 49%. Our increase in scoring in 2016 is one of the best in VFL/AFL history. Roos inherited a team whose best player was a B grader in Nathan Jones (improved him to B+). Looking over the young talent now and the general improvement/upward curve I reckon Roos has been worth every cent. The foundations for real success are in place. Who'll forget the story of an almost broken group of senior players who had an honesty session with Roos in late 2013 as they laid bare where the club was really at in an effort to convince him to steer them out of its seemingly never ending abyss. I expect to finish on 9 or 10 wins, but whether we do or not, the club is far advanced from the competition's laughing stock that Roos inherited and I believe we'll look back at his tenure as one of the most compelling periods in our history. Outside of GWS and the Dogs I have no doubt we have the most talented core of young players in the game and are close to becoming a destination club.

I just wanted to keep a few demonlanders away from the Westgate #manoftheppl

Never in doubt.

It's been a really great experience this year watching Jack play well and really enjoy his footy. You can see it in him now, there's no hesitations or flinches of doubt, he's backing himself to win contests and kick goals. Great to have you on board till 2019!

Though very cynical after a humiliating loss I always mellow and usually feel positive we can win again come next game day. This past game against WC gives me hope. Round 14, 1998 at Subiaco. WC were on a six game winning streak. We had lost our previous game not surprisingly against the saints by 85 points. And previous game to that, 95 points against Geelong. We went there with an undermanned side and the game was going to script by halftime as we were getting pumped. Then suddenly we came out breathing fire and overran them in what was IMO our most stunning upset ever. I was so shocked that I thought the game must have been fixed. See all the details on demonwiki and YouTube below with thanks to Supermercado. http://demonwiki.org/Round+14+1998

This: http://www.theage.com.au/wa-news/melbournes-jesse-hogan-shuts-down-dockers-advances-20160720-gqaa8f.html

I get a bit sick of this waiting to see how the team is traveling - we heard it from Chip and now Jesse and Tom Mac. They need to show some leadership and drive the improvement, as Jack Viney is doing. I wish they were invested like he is.

Jack has set an example of honesty and loyalty that stands up alongside the likes of the Hawthorn OAPs. Hopefully it will prompt the likes of Tommy Mac & Hogan to display similar qualities. For one who has been the target of no end of sniping and disrespect from coaches and supporters for so long, it is amazing that all he has to say about the club is positive. Good on you, Jack Watts. You have been an absolute beacon during the dark times.

3 memories 1. As a kid going to the game in my footy jumper, dad and his mates, so proud and excited. We won most games. We were Hawthorn, and like Hawthorn we normally found a way to win the close ones. To know that we were the greatest, with the greatest coach, captain and team. We had the "culture" of success. To know and experience the hate and jealousy of other clubs and their supporters. Thinking this feeling would never end. We were born to rule until 1965. 2. Seeing the famous 64 GF on top of the old Northern Stand when 100,000 people held their collective breath when Gabbo and then Froggy kicked their goals. Seeing Demon fans celebrating and Magpie fans (women) crying. Having nightmares of Gabbo's run and dreaming that he won the game. 3. The thrill of the 1987 final series and the games against North and Sydney when we smashed them. When the Demon fans stood as one to clap Robbie off the ground in the last Q against North in order to rest him for the next week. I have never again experienced that love for a player as we experienced for Robbie that day.

It was a joke.

Bring the Pedo back!!

It's official now. 3 year deal.

Watching Collingwood be embarrassed in the 1960 Grand Final. Watching Neil Crompton break the hearts of magpie supporters in 1964. Sitting at the western oval after the game in 1987 to find that we'd made the finals. Watching us win the 1956, '57 and '59 premierships.

There was "no way" we could have beaten Geelong at Geelong ............................

Very good news. My son wears the No 4 on his jumper.

Come 2018 Jack will be our Crawf...

Having the opportunity to sit for half an hour and talk footy with Jim Stynes

I reckon the club would have asked Jesse what his plans were so we could consider our options come trade week, if he was definitely going to leave we could at least get full return for him on the trade table, but it sounds as though the response was very positive.

Unless we beat another team of note this year I'd say our improvement overall hasn't been huge. Sadly we're on a slow burn with our improvement, not the rapid rise the dogs managed. It's frustrating because I felt like the stars had aligned for such a year but it hasn't turn out that way. But progress is progress, and we do have some genuinely good young players coming through, but it's the transition from the old Melbourne to the new Melbourne that is one of the biggest challenges. The Ox is right to be frustrated when talking about losing to the Saints 14 matches in a row, until we shed that stigma we won't have turned the corner.

Congrats Jack! It feels good to know Jack has made it. I agree with all the positive observations that have been made here. On the few instances that I have met Jack in person, as well as watching him at training and in the media, he stands out as a terrific bloke, a passionate Demon and a wonderful role model. Our club has benefited, on and off the field, as a result of drafting Jack. Now the future is his to push on to the elite level that he is capable of on-field.

Good on you Jack! http://www.afl.com.au/news/2016-07-21/jack-watts-off-the-table-demon-shuns-free-agency

we could have 4 super fast cumbers surrounding Dawesy in a 360 degree formation ready for any mark that may be spilt. I call it the diamond offence!

Let's aim a bit higher and get a Hurley or Prestia...no need to set the Barlow. I'll show myself out.

No, we don't. Imo, which is obviously shared by most, players don't usually start impacting games until they've played about 60 themselves. Here's our top ten players with less than 60 games to their name: Hogan, Gawn, Petracca, Oliver, Brayshaw, Salem, Hunt, Stretch, Kent, and Harmes All of these players would be expected to play 100+ games and outside of the Giants I doubt any other club has the same concentration of talent emerging. Gawn is 24, but still under 60, while Tyson and Viney, who haven't been included, are yet to reach their peak and have only just reached 60. There's also Frost, who I like in defence, Oscar and Weideman / Hulett. I know we've had false dawns, but for me there's more meat on the bones and compelling evidence that this young group has demonstrated what others haven't. And it's reflected in results. We've fielded the youngest and least experienced team more often than any other team in the competition this year. While I understand the lack of patience, I'm very comfortable with the list that's being developed and look forward to the bulk of them coming through at the same time, which is important also.

Never felt a feeling like western oval 1987 until the following 2 weeks at the G

Did that guy ever get Rohan Bail's signature tattooed on his forehead?

I am hoping for another bounce back after a bad game, which we did after Essendon loss and Sydney loss - albeit close losing margins to NM in Tas and Adelaide. This is also probably our last realistic chance of beating a team in the eight since Rd 1 as WC has been in poor form - although at home they have usually been pretty handy. Everyone has the two obvious changes - White looked out of his depth and poor old Grimes did what Roosy must have been wishing he'd do. Sadly that's almost certainly the last game we'll see Grimesy, although hopefully he leads Casey to the VFL flag this year and I almost wish he kicks the winning goal against us next year when we play Richmond - given how shabbily we treated him this season. The two easy ins for me are Frost and Stretch. Frosty was ill last week and his pace down back was missed. We all know he's a bit awakward with his kicking at times, but he's a developing backman FFS. I still can't believe Billy was given the cold shoulder last week - I have him down for three super games this year - the Dogs, Lions and Adelaide - not bad for a 19yo. He may not have had that much of it against Freo but I can't remember any howlers or non-team moments. He runs, makes space and as we saw against Adelaide can help out down back when required and his tackling ability is now a feature. I am assuming they rested him because he's a kid and would hope that he's cherry ripe again this week in the eyes of selectors. I've said this before he's already a way better player than Matt Jones, it just beats me that we are preferring a fringe 28yo who is fast but is unable to use it to score a goal, to a likely future regular who is 19. Then the other two changes I'd be hoping for are as follows. The first is to get Spencer in. His form in the VFL is great and he can match a fellow meat and potatoes ruckman like Lycett, which allows Gawn to rest a little more up front this week, where he has been quite damaging at doing. Both Spencer and Gawn are hard to match up on because of their height and will force the Eagles defence into a mismatch. It also allows them both a bit more rest time on what is a huge ground for a ruckamn. The other factor I don't get is why if Adelaide is playing four tall forwards we aren't copying them a bit - I mean we are trying to replicate their run and gun style already, so how we go with a gameplan of just two key forwards - Hogan and Watts - each week is mindboggling. I've said it before, sometimes you need to go down the line as Adelaide do so well to Tex and Jenkins because all your switches are covered. But what hope do we have when Hoges and Watts are our only line options and one is off or playing in the ruck in Wattsy's case. Hopefully Roosy we saw what happens last week when they got injured and Petracca and VB were our marking targets! The Spencer move does require a structural change, but just as it did against the Hawks when the good Dawes played - it gives us an outlet and surpise, surprise almost every club is doing it - Sydney aren't but that's because they have injuries to Tippett and Reid - not because they want to go small. The second change is to either reward Neal-Bullen for his VFL form and play him bang in the middle, or to bring in Oliver in as a development move. Some are arguing for Bugg to come in and that wouldn't surprise as he's a direct like-for-like replacment for Grimes, but he was just OK last week. But I'd rather that he comes back in after a dominant VFL game, not just a good one. Viv also keeps playing well in the magoos and is also some chance but I can't see that many changes, although if we wanted to go small then O.Mac is the obvious candidate. The guys whom would make way are: VB - firstly I love the way he plays and his hardness is already legendary. But given that I know he was the second quickest guy at the club in summer and he now looks like he's not in the top 10 for speed you have to wonder two things. Is he struggling for overall fitness because of the limited interchange or is he struggling because his ankle keeps flaring up. Personally I'd rest him up for this one and get some decent running training into him without soreness in the hope that he can produce a couple of rippers against the Suns and Hawks. He definitely is a best 22 player when fit - but he almost looked jetlagged last week and without his chasing pace, his major value is lost. Kennedy or Matt Jones - I was a bit shocked when Kennedy played last week because I thought we'd learn our lesson from the previous clash with the Saints, that there's not as many ground-ball gets for small forwards at Etihad Stadium but alas we did not. Assuming the pace of Stretch is back in, then we can afford to omit one of these two guys, and whilst I'd rather see the left foot and courage of Kennedy on the wing or half-forward, I know the club sees amazing things in Matt Mediocre Jones (even if I can't see any). The key tactical moves that I'd love to see this week are: 1) Play Bernie on the wing on Gaff. Gaff has struggled with the harder tag this year and Bernie is just the sort of guy to get under his skin and from a wing, will be more likely to get a few kicks from around the 50m mark than when he's used as a defender. Gaff is mega fit and fast, but he's not explosive quick - hence Bernie should be able to counter him. 2) Play Viney on Shuey - Shuey's been in hot form, so our best midfielder has to go to him and quell him just like last week when he had the Steven matchup. Jonesy can go head-to-head with Priddis - it's always harder for an umpire to give soft free kicks away for tackles that slip up against a captain, so that will make it harder for Mr Brownlow to get more than three softies - although the crowd will want 10. 3) Make Spencer a late inclusion for surprise value and then send him in for the first bounce. Lycett will be preparing all week to jump in early against Gawny and sometimes a coach has to come up with things that make it harder to plan against. I get so frustrated when we go in without any match-up surprises - but that is Roosy's way I guess. So side as follows and this assumes Hoges has pulled up OK: Out: Grimes, White, Kennedy and VB (but name him and make him a late withdrawal for Spencer). In: Frost, Stretch, Spencer, Neal-Bullen (or Oliver) B: Jetta (Hill) T-Mac (Kennedy) LeCras (Frost) HB: Hunt (Cripps) O-Mac (Darling) Wagner (Yeo or whoever is sixth forward) C: Vince (Gaff) Viney (Shuey) Stretch HF: Watts Hoges Petracca F: Garlett Gawn Kent Ru: Spencer (Spencil early, then Gawn for most of second half) N.Jones (Priddis) Neal-Bullen Int: Tyson, Brayshaw (to go straight to Wellingham and get into him verbally for being a dirrty [censored] last year), M.Jones and Harmes Name VB in side but don't take him and don't play him in VFL - get him fit. Take Michie as 23rd and if it's majorly wet (unlikely), omit O-mac or Frost for him.

2018 Premiership to the Demons... reward for the great Jack Watts. A great bloke. A loyal man.

Was thinking as much BBO, is he over his illness? More inclined to give him another 1 year extension and delist Dawes come years end.

The only positive we'd get from bringing a guy like Barlow to our club would be experience to the side. However, the negatives comprehensively outweigh the positives in this instance and it's the kind of trade the Richmond footy club would do. The last thing our club needs at present is another bloke who runs as if he is in quicksand. He is slow, clearly past his best and to be honest, he is just not that good. Players of his capabilities will always stand out when playing in a deep and talented midfield. When I look at our side, I see three major weakness areas: 1: Pace and class in the middle 2: A Ruck/forward 3: An established key defender Experience will come as our core continue to play together and that's just a waiting game. Brayshaw, Petracca, Hogan, Weideman, Salem, Oliver, Viney, O-Mac, Tyson, Gawn and Kent. That's 11 players who should all be playing together weekly at the 60-100 game mark and when that happens, we'll start seeing a lot more consistency in individual performance and therefore team performance. At around that time, we'll also need to have a pretty settled back-line group and I'm imagining we'll have the McDonald brothers plus someone we bring in at the end of this year. Add Hibberd and Jetta as really hard and combative defenders and we'll have one spot then for a rotating HB/MID. I see Hunt/Stretch and Melksham as players who are in the frame to play wing as they're our hard running players with pace and I think Hawthorn have shown just how important two elite running wingers are to a side in today's game. An inside midfield group of Viney, Oliver, Brayshaw and Tyson. O'meara the rolls royce. Petracca our wild card who like Dusty can start as a dangerous forward but rotates through the middle and genuinely carves opposition players into totem poles. Solid foot soldiers and senior experience in Jones and Vince with ANB, Vanders and Harmes as back up. Vince potentially playing mostly HB at this stage. A Ruck/forward combination of Gawn and (insert name here). Hogan, Weideman and Watts as our versatile three talls. Hogan and Watts to play high. Garlett and Kent as our small forwards who can also play high up the ground. It's a dream. Get me a cold flannel.

So it's bad news when they talk about him leaving ? There's never been any strong evidence he'd go.

In what world is Michael Barlow a "gun"? If he's a gun then Fyfe is the greatest footballer the game has ever seen. He averages less than a goal every 1.5 games so not sure how he's a goalkicking mid either. He's been a solid workhorse of a player but wouldn't be in our first choice starting midfield, just as he hasn't been in an injury-decimated Freo's this year. About to turn 29 and out for the season with injury. Pass.

Bit harsh I reckon. If you've been a supporter for 50 years you're not exactly looking for a quick fix like the lottery, you've stuck it out through some truly horrible times despite the fact you've never seen the one thing you want to see. A flag. Seems harsh to say someone who's been a supporter for that long expects quick success all of a sudden. Think everyone would know deep down we've got some good building blocks there, but geez you can't begrudge supporters of 5 decades some expectation that the club will finally deliver.

As mug supporters we really don't know, but in my view he doesn't deserve the coin that Rance and Talia of Adelaide are on, or other All-Australian key defenders. Anyone know what they're earning ? What are the Hawks paying Frawley ? $550K ? I know he's different in that he went for success and not coin, but on the surface $700K seems well over the odds for Tom McDonald. Well it does to me.

If sending Dee supporters on a downer was a bannable offence, half the posters here would be banning themselves from life.

Go back and have a look at us 3 years ago. If you don't think he has turned it around you are kidding yourself. So you think the fact he is paid 4.5m that we should have won a flag or something. We were a disgrace and a basket case 3 years ago

They're wrong more often than right. You must have been slitting your wrist when Langdon said recently that his mail was that Hogan was definitely returning to WA. Mark Robinson said Dayne Beams was staying at Collingwood and that you could "take it to the bank". Naturally enough he left. I take no notice of them until late in the year when genuine talk is starting to come out. Please yourself, of course.

Probably the biggest upset win by us in my memory. I seem to recall that we had a lot of key players out. Stinga had a blinder. Our win against the Bombers after 190 in 1979 was the most memorable home and away match I attended. Robert Walters kicked 9 against 2 state reps in Kenny Fletcher and Garry Foulds. Went with a bunch of Essendon mates which made it more enjoyable.

The old reverse jinx.. Seems legit

On a side note can't remember who said it but The Age now has our correct logo on it. Funni though cause as soon as someone on here brought it up it was a day or so later that it was changed. Demonland is a gold mine for papers and journos! We do there jobs for them.

Fair enough. Let me ask you a question though. How would you say Essendon are going this year? My personal view is that I think they are having a genuine crack each week and have done well to avoid any absolute thumpings. Now, if it had been Melbourne in their position, I have no doubt we would have lost multiple (probably majority of) games by triple figure margins, and every week it would have been ok because of x, y and z. You see, not having a crack isn't acceptable at other clubs. Why is it excusable at Melbourne? And there are genuinely times when our club just puts the queue in the rack and gives up. It's blatantly obvious. I just don't understand why so many are willing to excuse it. The win/loss column isn't the start and end of it for me. All I want is to be able to go to the football knowing that my team will exhaust every avenue to try and win. I still don't get that feeling.

Think we're pretty covered for midfield depth with the likes of Trengove, Newton, Michie, ANB, VDB. It's quality we need not quantity.

Buy a membership

I doubt he's actually waiting to see how we go. He's just got to say something. He can't really say, "I'm definitely staying, just playing hard ball to get a bit more cash out of the club" or "staying? U joking?".

Why? Because he might stay - and we might become a great footy side, and then you'd have nothing to be so bitter about?

I think following the Dees has become a minor drug habit, like drinking coldies every night after work, or having more than one junk food meal a week. After 51 years of home and away support i will offer up the following: 1. collecting the ampol? series of player pix in vfl album, 1964. 2. getting my ron barassi boots as a birthday present, brought to school one morning. 3.. we got a telly in 1964, and i can remember a snippet of a WOS replay where melbourne thrashed collwd in the second semi. one highlight was a chain of handballs to a melbourne player in the square (J Lord?) who popped it through. my only memory of any tv highlights. 4. seeing the scores being updated on ABC 2, with the 'final scores' caption showing a melbourne victory, 64-60.in 1964. 5. buying kool mints and donuts pre-game with my late friend ray. 6. having numbers on jumpers competitions with ray and roger on the train to the footy. 7.. a game, about '67 where Hassa Mann dobbed a goal right on the siren to come from behind over North. Barry Vagg did a similar deed in another game in that time. 8.. Tiger Ridley's '71 season as coach, and going to read the Sunday Observer, with us near top of the ladder and thrashing teams each week, first half-season. 9. Games in the 70's where both Ross Dillon and/or Greg Parke dominated. 10. the announcement that Ron Barassi was returning to Melbourne. 11. the recruitment of Diamond jim, and Kelvin Templeton. 12. Cameron Bruce's snap v carlton in 2000. 13.walking into an afl video shop one year and finally seeing crompton's goal on video. 14. The career of David Schwarz, esp. his breakout year in 1994. 15. the '87 finals series, and games leading up to. 16. going to victoria park last round in 1976 and seeing us whip collingwood. almost, but didn't make the finals. 17. the night finals in the late 60's and 70's where the dees starred. 18. winning the night flag in '87. 19. our great year in '98 under Neal Daniher. 20.2000 finals series and jeff farmer's great efforts during the year.

My father, a fanatical Melbourne supporter, passed away a couple of weeks prior to the Freo match in 2008. He had already organised a couple of tables in the dining room for that day so a whole group of family and his footy mates went along and kept a seat free for him. We were lucky enough to get tables in front of the windows but we were playing 'typical' Melbourne footy and were 50 points down by half time. Biggest Melbourne comeback of all time. A fantastic last couple of quarters where, at the time, the team just seemed to do it for him. There were some tears during the song My sister and brother and I then spread some of his ashes at CHF scoreboard end after the game

He's very mentally tough individual. To have copped all the pressure and negativity hurled at him since he was thrown to the wolves in his debut through until now shows the character and toughness he has. I can't recall anyone in football having as much crap thrown at them as Watts has endured. Now he can finally flip off all the haters and stand tall as a quality player. Will be happy when the news is official, but for now I'm just wrapt for him as a person to be producing the quality he was always capable of. Good onya Jack!

Jack, the poor bastard has had to endure more ridicule and derision than anyone in the history of the game for not being able to be that No.1 pick and saviour he was supposed to be. Through all that he has remained loyal to the MFC when nearly all others would have left. He is Melbourne to his core and I am very happy he will remain with us for the good times.