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From The Age mid season report card: http://m.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/afl-season-2016-melbourne-midseason-report-20160619-gpmull.html What coach Paul Roos says: "We're trying to set our team up to when we eventually play finals that the game style that we put in place is going to be successful in that environment. That's the focus because we're seeing some teams, without mentioning them, they set up a game style that probably gets you to between eighth to 10th but struggle to get above eighth or seventh, so we don't want to do that." I think this statement puts into context sooner of the dejection and game style issues we've been discussing. It isn't about winning games, it is about developing a winning game style and winning culture. We are still in a development phase and we aren't cutting that development short for the sake of winning an extra 2 games this year, when it really doesn't count. I'll back the football club on this one. We've spent money to put a plan and program in place, and I prefer that we see it out rather than crumble to pressure for short term game.

He had sooky tendencies last year. I pointed them out on this board and got shot down. I think he just feels more comfortable on the field now, so there is perhaps a sense of entitlement to complain more than he did last year. His body language has gotten better the longer the season has gone on, but he is not a perfect player and anyone who refuses to see that is just being blinded by the potential. Is he an amazing talent? Yes. Is he playing beyond his years and experience? Yes. Does he need to do better defensively and watch his body language? Yes.

I've always wanted to do this:

I love the game of footy but the 'personalities' that are born from it are worse than poison.

Surprisingly, I find myself in agreement with Stuie about the thread having worn out its welcome.

I'm not sure what others are seeing in Trenners that looks so bad, i've felt he's been solid without being fantastic, but definitely building back into it and certainly doing enough to hold his spot, need to remember he's missed two years, it was never going to happen right away, but i'm seeing enough to think he can contribute.

An article about GCS OOC players. . http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/afl-season-2016-david-swallow-keen-for-a-longterm-deal-say-gold-coast-suns-20160621-gpod3i.html#ixzz4CC8iSusG The article says both Swallow and O'Meara have been unhappy about the medical advice and rehab respectively. Tough situation for talented young guys trying to make it in the AFL. Motivation to leave? On Prestia it says: "Prestia, averaging more than 26 disposals in 11 matches, met with his manager Marty Pask last week, with money not the primary concern over a new deal. He has been linked to Melbourne, Richmond and Carlton" I find that encouraging because of the three clubs we offer the best prospects, if he decides to leave GCS!

It has been that way since 2006

This year is about next year.

I think to write off and make questionable absolute (negative) claims about a player whose been out of the game for two years and playing AFL level for just three games, says more about you and your need for attention, then it does about Jack. Given where Jack's come from to even play at AFL level this year, ahead of schedule, is a testament to his capacity to work on his body to get it right. I'll back Jack's ability to continue to develop himself and play AFL footy over your cheap point scoring with insufficient data and knowledge.

Great post - how anyone can question his workrate with the amount of ground he covers is beyond me. Sometimes I wonder whether I'm watching the same games as others.

From a female perspective this is just another example of everyday casual sexism. Sure, Eddie and Co didn't really want to drown Caroline, but they certainly wanted to embarrass and make a fool of her. And why - cause she's had the audacity not to play by their school boy rules. They wouldn't degrade another bloke in public like they did Caro - the bro code doesn't allow for that. The same bro code that has allowed was someone like Wayne Carey - who glassed his girlfriend - to be accepted back into the media. Eddie McGuire is comfortable ignoring Wayne's track record but can't handle a journalist suggesting it might be time for him to give away his club presidency. Any one saying this is the PC police overreacting is totally missing the point - have a look at the current 'Stop it before it starts' campaign. It's about changing attitudes. Or maybe think about the fact today would've been Luke Batty's 14th birthday.

I offered an opinion boys. It may be right or wrong but I am not interested in some kind of justification of what I wrote. It becomes pedantic and a boring exercise. I don't mind debate but it gets to a point where it becomes very boring very quickly. Point scoring does not interest me. My theme was simply that Jack has shown great character to cop all the criticism and abuse and play good footy this year. I did not think this was possible but he proved me wrong.

Gawn is elite. No doubt about it. If he was an unrestricted free agent this year he would have 18 offers for his services. You are elite when every club wants you.

Yes, we've had lots of false starts since 2007, in both the football department and the administration. Yes it's disappointing. But that doesn't mean this is another one. If the pessimists can't seen the difference between the 2012 team (that had players like Sylvia, Blease, Gysberts, Howe, Bate, Bennell, Strauss, Morton, McKenzie, Petterd, Cook, Moloney, Tapscott, Sellar, Davis, Taggert, Bail, Tynan, Fitzpatrick, Nicholson, Evans and Magner) and the current lot, then they will remain pessimists forever. Do you seriously think the 2016 list is not a quantum improvement? The current team is the youngest in the AFL. They have a huge amount of talent, But they will not be world beaters instantly, or even within three years. To think otherwise is just total delusion.

We are 6/7, ( improving) nearly every week we walk away with something positive that indicates a baby step (this week Hunt) and this has been going on for three years now. Hogan, Viney , Gawn , Brayshaw, Salem ,Tyson ,Petracca, Oliver, Hunt, Stretch Harms ( apologies to others) plus a bit of astute trading ( Vince, Lamumba, Garlett , Kennedy, Bugg) and there is more to come in the seconds. The top sides are not going to roll over or give us an inch. The above players and others when the they are truly ready and prepared , when the time is right ( and its getting closer ) are simply going to shove them out of the way. It takes time. Take a look at the Giants with 24 first round draft picks ,Premiership players and Club captains. We managed to beat them. Roos has held the cup up, he knows what it takes, he knows how hard it is and we saw exactly what we are up against Sunday. ie.Tough hard, forged blokes with bigger bodies who can really play. They also play for each other and would die for the cause. These blokes have been operating at the top end of the curve for a long time and then you throw in Franklin and Tippett. Happy to have Roos steering the ship, the other more successful options are?

So a gif is a picture of Robert Downey with his eyes opening wide?

Doubt that sponsors would drop off because we're sitting comfortably at around 35k average per home game, better than Bulldogs, North, Blues, Saints, even Cats who play more big primetime games. Generally good press this year and a lot of positivity so I would think we're safe for sponsors right now. Membership is still a concern because there's little growth. We also have a relatively small support base next to other Melbourne teams. Making the finals this year would push us beyond 45k in 2017 but 40k would still be a stretch in 2017 (although I would think we'd get there). I always thought that in 2014 and 2015, Roos' style was at odds with what Jackson and co. we're trying to achieve. We played ugly, unattractive football, and no one outside of Melbourne supporters wanted to watch the Demons. Roos is really applying a similar philosophy here as he did with the Swans. Melbourne isn't in a situation where it can afford to drop off again, so it needs sustained success over a long period. Sydney in the 2000s was looking down the barrel and now they're in a position where as a club, it's success or bust: they simply can't afford to bottom out like a Collingwood or a Hawthorn or Geelong. Those teams would survive bottoming out, but Sydney just isn't in a position where it can take that risk. Melbourne as the club we know absolutely must be relevant and successful for a long period. The way the league is now and the way information is spread through the internet and social media, when you're down, you're really down. When it rains it pours. It's a long climb back and my pass mark for this year was 10 wins, not finals. I'm fairly confident with where we're out. We need to iron out the kind of losses against Essendon, St Kilda, but tough loses will still happen. As frustrating as Sunday was, it was no disaster. We'll bounce back against the Crows and the media will jump back on us and start talking finals again like they have after every Melbourne win. That's the best we could ask for from a branding perspective at this point. Dees 2017 premiers.

Go away for a day and WW3 breaks out! I agree with stuie on this. There I said it, never thought I would. As for Prodee and SWYL you seem to fail to appreciate that we live in changing times and standards of acceptability are shifting, not long ago aboriginals could not vote and slavery was commonplace (in the world). Societal values change, time to move with the times.

I'll buy in. To me Jack Watts has only met minimum standards. For me the minimum standard varies from player to player. It does not depend on where they were taken in the draft. It purely depends on the evaluation of their talent and that is very subjective. I have eaten at Vue De Monde and also at my local fish and chip shop - both are great but the expectation of what they should deliver is vastly different. I have been sorely disappointed with the consistency of his output prior to this season. He has always shown glimpses of what he is capable of but has only put consistent performances together this year. This season he has been good but it is the minimum that he should be delivering. I think it is pretty easy to judge a players talent early on - can they kick ? can they mark ? do they have tricks ? What is really difficult - do they have the appetite to get the most out of themselves and/or will they develop it - the "above the shoulders" talent . This to my mind has been the biggest knock on Watts - to get the most out of himself - and for Watts that meant hitting contests regularly. He has always been gifted with his delivery, vision, evasive skills. But his willingness to get involved has been rightly questioned. I am not necessarily talking about crashing packs - i am talking going when it is his turn and desire to get to contest after contest. We have had a plethora of opinions ranging from he will get there to whether he just will never develop an appetite. To me, this season, his talent is pretty much what it has always been. What has lifted is his appetite to get involved. To me he has reached a minimum involvement level and if that's all he has got and he continues at this level, then we have a good player. I don't think he will ever get to a Viney/Jones passion for "involvement" but if he can lift his intent even more then he will go from the good player he has been this season to a new level and the player that many of us have hoped he will become.

Feminism is not a theoretical model, because that would suggest coherence and consistency in the model, even where there are contesting theories. Contemporary feminism has distanced itself from and is hostile towards old-school feminism, because the two are very different, competing fields of social theory. Where feminism used to be about individual empowerment and the woman being treated equally to the man, modern feminism is much more about the collective, with a different interpretation of sisterhood in that it's less about "having someone's back" and more about "social justice", which really means public lynching. It is less a "stand up and be heard" movement and more a "SIT DOWN AND LISTEN" movement, which aims to replace the patriarchy more than merely break it down. You also amplify a narrative that in my opinion epitomises the incoherence of feminism, "social justice" and the modern far-left: you're so smothered in your own non-subjective interpretation of morality and society that you can't separate the [censored] from fact. This quote in particular had me rolling on the ground in laughter: There is no "view" of journalism. Journalism is the amplification and sharing of information. It is the role of the journalist to inform. The modern-left see journalism as a means to initiate change, but that is not the role of the journalist: the role is to inform true to the facts, and allow the reacher/viewer to make up their own minds based on those facts. The "social justice" journalist that we see so prominently these days is no different than the state-sanctioned journalist in China, because they are amplifying a non-subjective, hardline stance and definition of morality: "This is how things are, but this is how they should be". That is not the role of the journalist.

Slower footballers have no value. Just look at that spud Sam Mitchell...oh wait.

I last posted in this thread on page one and I've read through every resulting page without commenting. All I can say is some of the comments here range from disappointing to downright disturbing. It's clear that society has a long way to go with regards to respect for women. The only positive from all of this was summed up well by Whateley on 360, who noted this merely solidifies the cemented "boys club" in the AFL who can't stand a dissenting voice amongst them. Unprofessional cowards, the whole lot of them. The only ones who come out unscathed in my eyes are Frawley and Barrett, both of whom personally contacted Wilson to apologise -- unsurprisingly there's been no such direct apology from Brayshaw; just a slimy, rehearsed, lawyer-vetted script. And McGuire? The guy who was telling confidants on Sunday that he refused to apologise for his comments? What more needs to be said?

I was wondering how long it would be until it was ok to start blaming Jack Trengove for losses again…..

Not before he was tracked down, apparently has been reported to police. Perhaps not smart to link your Twitter and Linkedin accounts. Still, you wonder (or not) how much of this kind of abuse goes on unacknowledged every single day, and just on Twitter. Having to comfort your 18 year old daughter who has just been groped in a crowded train carriage doesn't give me much tolerance for the "it's just a joke" brigade. Respect for women starts with the way we talk about/to them.

I've been waiting for this and I have to say I'm pleasantly surprised

Im not sure how winning games is divorced from winning style/culture.

Can't believe I'm taking time out of my day to explain this to such a simpleton. 'Black widow' is a very old, well known label to attach to a woman that is seen as spiteful or a range of other things. There is a huge negative stigma underlying calling someone that, which the person attaching the label doesn't need to repeat to get the message across. Players nicknames are usually given in a positive way with an underlying tone of mateship and admiration. If not, it's just as much bullying as calling someone a black widow. For example, if you call a mate 'fatso', and attach that label in a negative way that makes the person uncomfortable, that's bullying. If you call him the Hulk, or the Beast (which have positive connotations in a male dominated environment, it's probably not. Your ignorance is amazing.

Particularly on the fence behind the goals. It was very wet. Couldn't even eat my packet of chips without them getting soggy Not a lot of fullbacks are expected to do a lot with the ball, Frawley and Lake are two premiership fullbacks who are prone to brain fades with ball in hand and not penetrating kicks. Rance is all Australian and has had a knock on his disposal since the 18's. Zac Dawson doesn't inspire confidence. Bulldogs renowned for their back half disposal has , Dale Morris who is best regarded as serviceable. More often than not it's the players up the field that let MacDonald down by not providing numerous good timely options. e.g. he looks to play on quickly, part of the attacking game plan and see's nothing ahead, so then has to make another decision, someone is not making an effort but it is now a more dangerous option requiring more precise skills, unfortunately as this is not the first instinctive option there is now more pressure being applied by the opposition - resulting in a harder kick to a less than perfect option. I'm not agreeing or disagreeing on TMac's disposal or decision making, but I do credit him with being be brave enough to continually take the game on. Interesting that Frawley's kicking is no longer questioned as he is continually provided with simple options by his team mates.

To back up your point, Sally Pearson recently returned from a wrist injury and is struggling to get back to her best for the Rio games...not even a leg or foot injury. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-06-10/sally-pearson-seventh-at-diamond-league/7498932

It makes me feel dirty, but I totally agree with Robbo (on 360) and may even have a little more respect for him. The normalisation of violence to women is that disturbing that it can be so easily accepted everyday in conversation and banter but Robbo was right on the money - this is also about BULLYING I know of a 9 year old boy who was sent to the principal office for fighting, but unpacking the story revealed: he was sticking up for a classmate being picked on by 12 year old boys. There was 3 of these boys who initially reacted to something the younger boy did and then mercilessly verbally him. another boys very quickly joined in leaving the 9 year old distraught, in tears as they left, the 9 year old retaliated by throwing rocks. He was attacked again. This was when his classmate intervened. Now that it had become physical teachers noticed an intervened all kids were sent to the principals office, and I understand some where suspended for a week. Bullying is not tolerated in school, as kids are expected to know and behave better. The are educated, encouraged and disciplined to this effect. Yet for Adults there seems to be another standard - What has the AFL, Triple M, Club boards or anyone done to show an example of zero tolerance for bullying (another school principle). Watching the radio clip on AFL 360 for the first time last night left both me and my wife absolute disgusted that this boy pack attitude, like a shark feeding frenzy upon sensing blood, still is accepted in the football community. We have a daughter who is very keen to play AFL, but we will definitely not be supporting her desire, while this attitude still exists.

After 13 pages I'm still amazed that those who defend Eddie and co by referring to similar comments made by a few Demonland posters in the past (or random voters about Shorten & Turnbull) cannot see the world of difference between Presidents of footy clubs on radio and comments made privately or on an anonymous forum. Edit to add: And in case it is not clear, I'm not defending either party. Just pointing out that people in Eddie's position have more responsibility to raise themselves from the gutter.

He's definitely got a bit to work on with his attitude, i'm really confident Sam Weiderman holds the key to this not happening anymore, when he comes in and shows how talented he is the three pronged attack of Watts, Hogan, Weiderman will be far to dangerous for Hogan to be double and triple teamed and he'll be able to build that confidence in game much easier on a week to week basis.

Tom has moments of indecsion every week and invariably makes the wrong decision that costs goals or momentum When you watch live close to the boundary you can see the whole team drop and a lot of head shaking. He has to learn soon to take the first best option and not think.He lacks footy smarts at the moment and it will stop him from becoming a great defender who has all the physical skills but he he not using those skill smartly at the moment

It's in the rules. Ya gotta blame a Jack. Grimes isn't playing so we can't blame him. Watts is looking the goods so we can't... OK. Some do but it's getting old. And Viney... heh... well I'd like to see the fella brave enough to do that. Trenners it is then.

Geez, poor Trenners. Only a few weeks ago he got a standing ovation, now people are calling for his head. Give him a few more weeks to build form and adjust. He has been out for such a long time, give him some time.

give him an entire pre-season without any further hiccups and it will do wonders for him. He is coming from a very long way back, so give him time to adjust back to AFL level. There are plenty who i would cut before Trenners, so this is probably a discussion topic that should be brought up at the end of next year.

Well we went to our first football game in Sydney on Sunday and while we went away without a win and were drenched trying to hail a cab later it was a pretty good experience. And I have to say it was tons better than our game against the other fake AFL side GWS last year in Canberra. At least they didn't berate us over the PA about how good the Swans are during the game. But a beer later in the Lord Dudley and then dinner at the 18 ftrs yacht club in Double Bay finished the day off beautifully.

He's one of if not the best Aerobic athlete at the club, with the interchange cap coming in this to me says he's probably the most suited of all our midfielders to the modern game. I personally believe all these judgments should be reserved to the end of the year and allow Jack to build some form and remind everyone how talented he is, we've seen flashes but i'm sure they'll happen more and more over time

Just a couple of points. McGuire needs to work out if he wants to be a club president or does he want to be a middle aged radio clown. His comments were bullying and I suggest he would of made the same comments when he was in his 20s, so he has learnt nothing. Triple Ms silence to date is not surprising, it's morning show is a throwback to the 70s with similar toilet style humour from middle aged men trying to be funny. Too many ex footballers in radio these days who have stuff all to contribute other than change room type jokes that aren't funny. As for McGuire and Brayshaw...just grow up!!!!

I don't think so, that hadn't even crossed my mind. To the contrary, I would think most people would interpret a bomb next to water as jumping in and making a splash. I've never heard someone use in the context you are referring to.

"It was just a joke", "we were just mucking round', "Cant you take a joke?" "Sorry IF I offended you". Standard responses when bullies are taken to task.

Jetta and Matt Jones were also "cooked" at Melbourne, as was Michie. All got another chance to redeem themselves. Grimes is doing everything he can at VFL level, yet isn't getting a game. I am not sure why, as he is better than Jones and Michie, and has as many credits as Jetta did when dropped to the rookie list. I guess as with everything in life, some people get multiple chances to prove themselves, and others don't. A real shame, as Grimesy probably deserves better.

Only a Chest mark if kicked to him...not over him Not only did he telegraph the intention, he did it in slo mo !!....then MISSED !!

has had a rippa year and will be aone of those players that get better when players around him get better

I would have tried to move him on (depending on what was on offer in return) as I thought 7 years was well and truly enough time to see if he was ever going to contest in the fashion required of a top-line AFL player. I never envisaged he could improve his contested footy to the extent he has and I'm glad he's been retained. The decision to off-load him would have been wrong in hindsight. It's a pity I can't crystal ball gaze. But, as you'd be aware, I take back none of my previous criticisms.

The thing about Jack is, everyone in our bloody team is a terrible kick. I still remember going to the first training session Jack attended. We had the four new draftees off to one side doing short passes (20-30m) to each other. When the other kids passed the ball, their target had to move to one side, or forward or back, to mark it. When Jack kicked it, they never had to move their feet. Every pass was dead centre of the chest. There are plenty of players around the league who are short on outright leg speed yet still considered to be A grade stars. They all have quality disposal, good game sense and a high workrate. Jack has all of these in spades. Given how desperate we are for quality ball-use, especially when moving into our forward 50, I don't see how we can afford not to have Jack in the side.

I think you'll like Sansa again after the 9th episode of the current series

Not since Travis Johnston have we had a player with so much time. He just finds time and space where there is non. Always been talented but is finally combining talent with hunger for the contest. One of the highlights of this season. Well done to him!