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In 2014 Dion averaged 27.1 possessions for the year. In 2015 Dion averaged 27.1 possessions for the year. So far in a year where his team is being flogged most weeks, Dion is averaging 24.0 possessions a game. In Dom Tyson's break out season in 2014 he was averaging 23.7 disposals. As one of our better and more consistent performers this year, Dom is averaging 23.6. Oh and to put this into further context. Jones won his first two blueys with an average of 24.6 and 23.1 possessions a game. Treloar, another young gun, averaged 27.6 and 27.5 in his final two years at GWS. Prestia is in the same bracket as Treloar, but will have a lot more support than Treloar will in Collingwood's midfield. Prestia is an elite young talent whose output is down as he builds back up from injury, in a team that's a basketcase. His contract predicament might also be playing a part. There's no ifs about him, other than injury. Dom Tyson also had injury troubles at GWS and he's turning into a fine young player. You do your medical due diligence, but once he passes that, you race to sign him.

Prestia is a gun. Pure and simple. Those who deny this either haven't seen him in action or are playing down his worth in case we don't get him. Any team would be considerably better with Prestia in it. I'd love him at the Dees.

Justin Plapp at breakfast this morning made mention that he hasn't seen a player (Weideman) come in and do what he's done in his first year of footy in his time in the game. Pretty big wrap! Also said he thinks Oscar will be a beast once he's put on some size.

not just the afl. the media (slobbo, caro, lloyd, hutchy) are actively supporting/encouraging it and joking about it (cc take note). no discussion of the "evils" of tanking and bringing the game into "disrepute".....bloody hypocrites

King on 360 highlighted the number of throws by the Bulldogs on the weekend. A week too late but at least it's now been talked about.

That graphic Hutchy put up on FC Monday disgusted it me. It was basically his "How-To-Tank Legitimately" guide for Fremantle, including early surgeries, playing undeveloped kids and "resting" (ie. dropping) their senior players. Media is full of hypocrites and idiots with short term memories. One rule for some teams, another rule for us, it seems.

They won't get both of Prestia and Hurley. Prestia will come to us, I think. And he is being grossly underrated by a lot of people on here. The last couple of years have been injury affected but before that he was a jet.

Interesting point. I played Hockey at a moderately high level, and there are a lot of parallels with the diamond defence in the type of 4-man structure I mostly commonly played under. Hockey is a game where much of the attack is along the flanks, and the defence would pivot around the side of the ground the attack was coming from. This structure is very effective at guarding space and foiling attacking thrusts when there are limited angles of attack (such as from the flanks). It is harder to defend balls coming through the corridor; in this scenario we would revert to a more man-on-man set up. This was also the team rule in the 16-yard "D" (for those that don't know hockey, you can only score from within this zone). This is where the two-way running is paramount, and requires the mids to be 'on' all the time and force the attacks out wide, where we are better able to defend space. Another advantage of the diamond, which other have alluded to, is that it forces the forwards out wide. This means that whilst they may take a lot of marks inside 50, they will be wider and force the forward to take a lower % shot. This is being played out in the relatively poor conversion against us.

Cannot believe anyone wouldnt be jumping out of their skin if we signed Prestia. Ball winning mids of his class are not simply plucked out of thin air. We have some height through the centre now. We can afford to have Viney and Dion in the same team.

Prestia is a class player, when he gets fit and a full pre season behind him he'll quickly show how good he is, an underdone and injured prestia was the best clearance player in the comp for a big chunk of last year in a struggling team. we would love him at the MFC

Forget what EFC are saying, it's what they are doing that counts. They are trying to get their players to commit to the club, why bother if they are contracted and can't walk. Why the big fuss about Heppell who was also contracted. Connors is out their seeking a deal for his player, he must believe his contract is is worth nix.... Good luck to EFC going back to the courts again, how did that work last time and the time before and the????

I'd be staggered if we used the Demon Diamond every bounce. Surely it's only one of a suite of tactics. We'd be stupid to overuse it. Once a quarter ought to do it. Opposition clubs would be all over it, if they already aren't. Sexy tactics are fun, but best use them sparingly to ambush the opposition.

I was listening before to a woman on SEN talk about netball tactics against opposition. She was referring to not always going through one star player, and in the AFL she mentioned Buddy and GAJ. Aside from that, what struck me was when she talked about clubs needing a fair degree of unpredictability in their set ups and plans, not always doing the same thing. When a team plays to a similar pattern each week, any opposition who have done their homework will quickly work out ways of getting around it. The Australian water polo team in 2000 specifically mixed up their patterns which regularly lead to confusion by their opponents. Other teams never knew who was going to shoot for goal. I believe they won the gold that Olympic year. Whilst we are yet to master this so-called diamond defence, it will be quickly worked out and countered by teams that are well organised and sufficiently skilled to work around it, partly because it leaves us highly vulnerable when things go wrong. Do we need a number of different patterns, defence/offence strategies or options? Or can someone point out where we have attempted this?

I'm not sure opposition teams want Jack Watts marking deep in that city end pocket.

I think some people might be getting their Steven May (contracted to end of 2017) and their Sam Day (out of contract 2016) confused...

Richmond were playing finals for 3 years and still couldn't land any of the big fish they went after. They tried getting Dom Tyson for 2 years and couldn't even land him, and he barracked for them. We tried for 5 minutes and over he came. I'm just saying I'll believe it when I see it when it comes to Richmond landing the Prestias and Hurleys of the world.

As has been mentioned multiple times in this thread, he can play inside and outside. Clearance machine. Tell me. How many gun inside mids do you think we have currently? Viney? Tyson is coming along, but inconsistent to this stage in his career. Jones is okay... Vince on his day. Jeez, we overrate our list. Prestia is a proven player. A proven young gun. So Oliver and Petracca might/will get there, but Prestia walks into our centre square clearance team. Jones plays on the half back flank, as does Bernie. They're injected into the midfield when required, otherwise let the young guys go at it.

Healy seems to have rediscovered his connection to the Dee's. Seems on board at the moment - fair weather friend?

The olmpics has been on a downward spiral since the 70's Inspite of all the talk and bluster it is now more corrupt and tainted by drugs than it has ever been. It is a broken and morally bankrupt organisation. It should be confined to the bin of broken grand ideas.

I understand it straight after the game and hell i feel it too but people are getting way too negative after each loss and way too positive after each win. If we win this week some people will be talking finals again

Yep they are a very well drilled team and had clearly done their homework. Beveridge looks the goods. Step 1 for them was nullifying Gawn to reduce our ability to win the clearances. Step 2 was to lock the ball up if we did gain first possession so we couldn't get it out cleanly (despite more numbers around the ball) and try to force it back to a 50/50 contest or turnover. Where we came undone was our inability to match their pressure around the contest/stoppages - how many times did we tackle them and/or a pack was formed only for them to get the ball out the back into space just before a ball up was called? This allowed them to go from a 50/50 in congestion to controlling the play in space. Their players immediately streamed forward in waves and at speed with our players struggling to run back with them to cover an opponent. The other area they killed us was defensive running when we had the ball coming out of the backline. Again, if we won the midfield contest and kicked forward the ball rebounded out at speed (if it wasn't marked) due to their willingness firstly win the disputed ball and then gut run back up the ground. If we won the ball in our backline via a turnover they had already covered space across the midfield before we really even had a chance to move the ball forward or look up for options in a version of "Clarko's Cluster". Bottom line is they attacked the contest harder, ran harder and were more disciplined in regards to their structures than us which is why they won the game.

BS - styles/game plans are getting pretty sophisticated now. They will fall down on occasion but in the long run a team will be better off for being drilled in a specific structure and will win more often than they lose. Look at the innovation of coaches like Roos, Craig, Clarkson, Thompson, Malthouse etc just over the last decade.

It's better than the cubic zirconia defence we used under Neeld.

One of our biggest assets is that we have a big mobile ruckman with a good tank which frees us up somewhat to play more runners. Why would we decrease that advantage by playing another tall who is not versatile enough to do much else other than ruck?

Darcy Moore is a prime example of the point your making.

There comes a point with development that players need to play in the big league. Even key forwards need to play top grade football to fast track their development, I can't think of one that learned their craft in the seconds (Hogan before anyone brings him up was still a junior and not eligible for senior selection). I hope both these guys get a good shot at it this year. If you keep developing in the VFL you end up with Ayce Cordy or Liam McBeen.

You mean Roughy moved into a less dangerous position? That is exactly what they want. They want players marking the ball deep in the pockets. A long, high contested kick out of the middle allows Tom to get to most contests aside from ones deep in the pockets whicho only results in a low % shot at goal. Thats a success. The zone leaves us vaulnerable to uncontested accurate low worm burning kicks but with an extra 2 in the middle that shouldn't happen. I emphasise shouldn't because right now while we're learning and we will make mistakes. Give it time, its gonna be frustrating to watch for now, but we will get there.

Yep, the problem with Bailey's team wasn't so much the gameplan as the lazy/unfit squad at his disposal. To be expected when you let the players dictate when and how hard they can train.

Compared to the Bailey era, though, and we either smashed the opposition, or they absolutely pasted us by 10+ goals. The Bulldogs didn't kill us on the weekend. It was a comfortable win but hardly a smashing. If we're only 5-6 goals off a top 4 team, well then I'm pretty happy about that. This team is far more accountable defensively then the Bailey teams. I remember in 2010, parts of 2011, where we couldn't get it out of the defensive 50, not because we didn't have the players, but because you had a bunch of blokes who didn't have the urgency or confidence to demand the ball. The loose players and goals over the back that we've seen this year is a breakdown in communication. I don't think it's through lack of urgency or confidence.

Only if he cuts off the man bun.

Lots of things change rjay and particularly as players develop and learn their roles with new game plans. I don't think you can leave Max out of the team if he is fit, you'd lose too much, but I do think you can give him a break with Spencer playing. Anyway it will be interesting to see if the FD try it at some stage.

It all comes down to how we finish off the season. If we're around the finals race come season's end then it will be easier to convince someone like Prestia that he is part of that missing piece of the puzzle that pushes us over the edge and into the finals in 2017. If we end up 12th again then other clubs like Richmond, St. Kilda, Carlton etc quickly become more attractive. It's up to us to make sure that doesn't happen.

I would considering we don't have a first round pick available (at this stage).

I'd rather manage Max and give him a week off then. We'd basically be using 2 players for 1 role which means we're down a player on the bench. If he's burnt out then better to have a proper rest and not risk injury by pushing it too much.

To protect Gawn from burnout for one. If Spencer players it must be on the basis he is used extensively in the ruck, say 40% of the time and plays forward say 25% of the time. Gawn rucks 60% and plays forward 20%. It works if Spencer can ruck effectively and Gawn can play forward effectively. Spencer is surprisingly quick and he is also physical in stoppages. Max looked cooked to me on Sunday, couldn't jump or get around the ground. He's rucked in 11 games straight with no help. I can't see it's a bad idea to give him a rest this week and play Spence as well. Pedo is a workhorse but rarely plays well against good teams so he's not the long term answer. Reality is we are filling time until one of the King boys makes it.

It's almost like we are sacrificing possible wins in order to practice this and get it right.

No. We can't carry two ruckmen. Gawn had a bad game on the weekend, but it's not a reflection on his tank, more a reflection on how well the Bulldogs played him. It might work once in a blue moon but Spencer isn't exactly an athlete and I feel like it would hurt our running game if we had both of them on the field at the same time.

Freo are tanking. Bet they won't get sanctioned the same way we were. AFL are hypocrites.

And more importantly years of life ahead of him. It is still just footy, his health is so much more important!

Try this one if the others are not working.

Not having a go at you but when i commented on how uncomfortable Hogan looked when questioned I was shouted down. On this site , its ok to read in to oppo players body language but it seems a bit too close to home when one of our own exhibits the same signs of discomfort when being questioned on their future. I dont see any posters having a go at you Dazzle for reading in to prestias body language. Demonland can be a bit 'cultish' at times.

Interesting. Respect your opinion as always Redleg, and I've been toying with this thought since I took him in UF this year and he's done nothing for me. But I do keep going back to what I thought of him last year (before he got hurt) and the year or two before when he was the flying meatball. Gets his own ball, but is punishing on the outside with a 60 metre dart put wherever he wants it. AND he's smart. For me it's a little too easy right now to say he's surplus to needs, with all our exciting young midfielders. After Vince and Jones decline, we have, in terms of blue chip, Olly, Petracca, Braysh, Viney, Tyson... I think maybe Salem too if he gets a bit bigger and harder. Maybe ANB at a stretch. But that's it. I reckon we need 6 really good seasoned hard at it mids who do the lot, supported by new kids and other forward-cum midfielders. One or two of those names mentioned might fall by the wayside between now and whe we're threatening (I'm looking at you Braysh)... so I dunno... I think if you can get a blue chip guy, you get him. Mostly, I saw pace smash us at home last week and away against Saints. Prestia is really good solid useable pace. I would agree though that a more glaring need is KP defender. Good post though all the same.

Can't see Prestia going to Richmond or the Blues. Richmond are in for some pain and a rebuild. The Blues aren't going anywhere fast until they dramatically improve their list. I don't care that they've won four games this year. They're being held together by performing B graders and Bolton structures. Prestia will come to Melbourne. Bookmark it.

If ANB can rack up 39 disposals against Sandy, he may well break the 50 barrier against the Lions :-)

Screwed over by the diamond. Riewoldt just kept running to Neville Jetta while Dunn and TMac seemed more worried that the diamond had a nice shape.

You have to be kidding me. Overrated, seriously. This boy is sheer class, one of the classiest young players i have ever seen. I would trade anyone of our players to have him in our jumper. Oh well, I must be on an entirely different planet.

We came unstuck because the dogs sat back and let us get first touch on clearance then created too much pressure but we also helped them out by not being smart and fighting over the pill. They always had that extra hand to receive because our extra man was fighting over the extraction with a teammate. Once we get a little smarter/mature with how we play the diamond setplay wil be very, very good

I was up at the GC last week for the game and intended to catch up with a player (who I won't name) for a few beers afterwards. Not long after the thumping win I got a text through saying a few other players would be joining us. However, Jones wanted none of it and told the group they were bound to the hotel and an extra early morning recovery was called. This was on the back of Melbourne's dismal record after a win and turning the focus to next week. Whilst I was personally disappointed not to "get around the boys" it was pleasing to see a great show of leadership.

All fair points but I think they have been fortunate to have had cheerleaders in the media and at AFL house which has meant most decisions here have not really been under the scrutiny that they should have been. We still have the issues of: Destruction of the evidence (spreadsheets etc) required by the AFL investigation and subsequent ASADA and Worksafe investigations. (Governance wrist slap can't cover this) Tampering with witnesses, financial inducements for evidenciary stances/change of stance, refusal to sign statements for financial gain. Worksafe penalty being embarrassingly inadequate. The $200K fine equates to less than a 6K fine per endangered employee. And considering each employee's safety was breached with each injection, this may equate to as little as $6 fine per injection, but we'll never know, see first point. None of the above has really been addressed and: To top all of this off they will benefit from their year of punishment by receiving an enhanced draft pick order. They should be at the end of each round as it was in all reality a self inflicted wound and artificially lowered ladder position not reflective of their true list strength requiring the legup that real cellar dwellers are entitled to. But yes the Essendon players did get a year off for the most blatant and systematic team game drugging issue in Australian (world?) sport history ever uncovered. Well, the ones that were left did. Edit: My last paragraph is a bit meh/crap but I'll leave it in

Forget about the physical similarities, Weideman thinks and plays like a key forward and that's not Watts' go. Weideman attacks marking contests with belief and fearlessness and that has never been Watts' strong suit.