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My thoughts? This is such a stupid thread plain and simple. Salem will be a star. His game on the weekend showed how badly we missed him all year. Jay is still young and already played 20 games. Jayden Hunt still has time. Funny how you started this thread based on the 2013 draft yet no mention of Brayshaw Stretch ANB OMac Vandenberg who have all showed that they will important members of the future. The Vandenberg pick was a jackpot. Thats good enough for me. I will also say that Mitchell White will most likely debut this week or next year. Another win for us. Taylor is a breath of fresh air. Once Petracca is up and going i can see 2014 draft a pivotal one in the future that will set us up. Jason Taylor is doing his job. To question him now is laughable and stupid.

If I had a choice to redo the draft I'd take Stringer, Wines or Macrae in that order. Any one of them would make us a better side. I also don't reckon Toumpas will make it as a decent player, but I'll back him in. As long as he's a Dees player I'll back him in. Why will I back him in? Because I barrack for the Dees and he plays for them. He's not the best player of his draft, but the Dees aren't the best team in the league either. Doesn't mean I'm going to start wishing I went for the Western Bulldogs, I already have a team and I'll back them in until I get so tired of this crap that I give up on AFL altogether. The reason why people like that poisonous t.wat picket annoy me so much is because they're not 'supporters', they only barrack for our players if they're dominating and will spend the rest of the time denigrating them and sticking the boot in. That's not being a supporter, you might as well be barracking for the Blues. I can't tell the difference. The funny thing about living in Adelaide is you can't rag on any of their fringe players, they'll back them in to the hilt no matter how bad they are, and I respect that. I would prefer Picket Fence, WYL and old dee all switched allegiances and gave the Bulldogs hell for only winning a single premiership... ever. You're all toxic and make me want to vomit. Good luck to the Toump. If nothing else, he seems like an A-grade kid.

When did I say you had to accept it. We haven't been improving for 9 years nobody thinks that, well they shouldn't In 2010 I thought we were improving and we were, some very bad decisions by those who shouldn't have been making them had massive implications on our club from the end of 2010 & through 2011. 2012 & 2013 we all know about and that set this club back so far it isn't remotely funny I am not trying to convince myself of anything I am realistic and this is where we are at. We are into our second season of our rebuild, forget about the previous ones they were not done correctly and this is what you end up with. We are now at where we were around 2011, what we wont do under this FD or under PJ is make the mistakes of the previous board and FD. The decision on players in the past 2 off seasons have shown me that with the players we have targetted and who we have brought in. So when I say we have improved I base that on the team we were under Neeld and the team Roos inherited in 2014, I do not base that on the side of 2007. I also look at the season as a whole when talking about improvement We now have a leading ruckman with Gawn less than 40 games into a career who is showing rapid growth and ability to mix it with the best Hogan still very raw but our first forward to kick 40 goals in a season since what 2010/11, and he has had very little support against the leagues best tall defenders. We have him and he is one of these genuine stars who are game changers Garlett another forward closing in on 40 goals, I think our entire forward line of 2012-13 struggled to do that Brayshaw just a gun and a leader 20 games into a career and showing signs of tiring as many other 1st year players that age have year after year Viney leadership and developing the run with part of his game along with his hardness at the ball Nate Jones has had a down year and our midfield is performing better than it has in the last 3 years, youngsters must be stepping up TMac has petered out as the season went on but there was plenty to like about his form in the first part of the year Salem looked good early in the season and showed yesterday despite being horribly underdone the class and hardness he possess Vince up until the last 3 weeks probably one of the best run with mids in the AFL had a greta season Jetta - out the door under the previous coaching regime now look at him, ultra consistent over the last two seasons ANB - has shown enough IMO to suggest he will be a long term player in our side Vanders - one of the finds of the season gives us great hardness around the clearances and how we have missed him since he went down with injury Kent - I have been a critic of him not getting the best out of himself but until he went down with injury was showing great form and pace to really worry opposition sides Can't say I have seen a season's end in the last few years with as much as that to look back on

Number 1 isn't Toumpas' problem at all.

We also bid pick 2 for Heeney, but the Swans took him with their first round pick. And Salem will be an absolute gun - managed to get Tyson too with that sweet little trade. Very selective and convenient assessment of things.

I was over the moon when I realised Sheahan was hosting 360 tonight. An actual pair of intellectuals finally getting the chance to question Roos, rather than a bumbling moron pontificating nonsense.

If only I had listened to my father all those years ago. He told me in 1959 that following Melbourne would just be a vale of tears. But I called him an old fool......said that we were a superpower ...that we would go on forever.....forever...! Now..what's left...just a big pile of scarfs....and they're still giving us new ones! Now I know it's all my fault....all of us....the coach has spoken.....our saviour.....Paul Roos , who art in heaven give us this day our daily excuse and forgive us our negativity as we forgive those who trespass and receive the full $5000 fine. Lead us not into sarcasm for thine is the kingdom the power and the glory of the mighty demons forever and ever............

Can't wait for the "Redden has nominated Hawthorn/Geelong as his club of preference".

West Aussies are the most parochial and narrow minded football supporters in the country. The irony is that they bang on about how "it's still the VFL" rubbish. The 16 other AFL clubs get very little coverage in the media and half of the time it's incorrect. Gossage is terrible and 6PR which is 3AW's affiliate station is woeful. Basil Zemplas, Brad Hardie, Karl Langdon etc. Excruciating radio to listen to. WA footy stalwarts hate Victorian clubs with sheer passion and the jibes flow freely on radio and television. It's quite childish and cringeworthy as rjay pointed out. Subi oval is a very hostile place to be when you're team is getting done.

I had never watched it closely before and I just accepted that prevailing view that Toumpas made a mistake resulting from his inexperience. I've watched this play quite a few times since your post Deanox. I completely agree with you. Toumpas did nearly everything right. He had no choice than to leave Montagna and try to tackle Lonie when he got the ball in the forward line and ran towards Toumpas. Lonie passed the ball to Stevens who ran by without Viney anywhere near. Toumpas then did the right thing and ran towards the fall of the ball to support Newton who was against Bruce. And you're right, it was Viney who was Stevens man at the centre bounce. Stevens got the ball and ran off leaving him for dead. Stevens then followed up his kick and got the ball again with no Viney in sight - at least on camera. Toumpas has been completely unfairly attributed with the mistake which resulted in Montagna kicking that goal. Finally of course, the awkward bounce of the ball in front of MacDonald made an implausible goal possible. Montagna gets great credit, but really it was Stevens who made that goal.

Re-signing Toumpas is logical. At the end of the season Bail, Fitzpatrick, M.Jones, Riley, Jamar, McKenzie, Terlich will most probably go. That's 7 spots to fill with VDB to be elevated. Howe and Garland may leave 2 more spots. If Toumpas were not re-signed, his replacement pick would be in the 80-100+ range. In last years draft only 2 players were taken with picks over 80, across every club! What would be the better option? A pick at that range in a weak draft or a kid who has been injured for a substantial part of his 2 years at the club?

Vandenberg. Completely stuffed that rookie pick up.

Toumpas' problems are two fold: 1. Stringer and Wines were taken after him and both are absolute weapons; and 2. He seems to panic/fumble too much. That said, I suspect he's got the potential to be a very good player - he just hasn't quite developed quite as fast as those around him yet. I back the likes of Roos, McCartney and Goodwin to get this stuff right.

I think Jesus Hoganshaw would be a bit disappointed that this was the only thing you took from his (edit: sorry, had you confused for someone else) post.

Michie & Newton, as big standard as they are, are still a step up from Bail & Matt Jones imo.

Demonland these days:

Bob I am not sure that will be that easy, to sit facing backwards I mean at Ethihad. Anyway I will keep an eye out and say hello when I see you. Keep your chin up, there is always next season.

Abandoned by my family decades ago......I'll go...drag my sad tired old body down the lonely concrete cave ...footsteps echoing in the eerie silence, tumbleweeds blowing by, doing my best to keep my chin up.....no no I can't go on....ahhh etc etc. It is just as well that they have closed level 3 because I was planning to ....JUMP! Now I will sit stoically on level one....but I will sit with my back to the game as a PROTEST!

For mine, the gaping hole in our list is players who can hit targets. Disposal, disposal, disposal.

Quality player. Should be in the mix for us, with a number of others.

I actually believe that Pedersen's absence has been a bigger problem than many would have expected. He was just starting to fit in well with Hogan.

The first time I was harrassed for being a 'Mexican' was in Port Headland way back in '96. I just told this bloke to not be so concerned and that I was only here to take his job and shag his wife.

I can't believe he took Petracca at pick two when Brayshaw went at pick three. Inexcusable... he must go now!

Don't worry, we'll just cut all our duds AND all our developing young players who haven't immediately dominated games and just replace them with A-graders from the magical A-grade player tree. Makes sense, right?

We have only 22 players on the PL that are not Roos-era recruits. That number will fall again for 2016 (to approx. 14 or 15) and by the year after might only be made up of 8 or 9 players. With Kent, Viney, Hogan, and Toumpas arriving the year before Roos came included in that 8 or 9. N Jones, Dunn, McDonald, Watts, and Gawn being the only pre-2012 recruits that look like staying through the Roos-era. That is a complete teardown rebuild in 3 years. It is hard to get your head around but it tells me how far back we are coming from compared to other teams doing a similar rebuild.

I don't understand what Grimes has to do to please some people here? He wasn't picked for Round 1, forced his way back into the side had some ok games. Forced his way back in again until injured. Made to play back at Casey again for a couple of weeks. Made his way back into the team and has had good games since while having good possession numbers. He has even been picked as sub a few times which is a terrible decision by Roos, when he came on he has made an impact and deserved to be playing the full game.

Picket mate you've flogged this for 2 years now. Lets all move on together from Ollie Wines.....

Cross will be kept because he tries..and has abilities as well as impact. Hes still a useful stop gap Hopefully at some point next season he ceases to be an auto top 22 pick. His work with us will have been done on the field. Hope he sticks around though .

He's been solid in the twos and on the brink of selection for a number of weeks being named as emergency. Any logic that denies him a last game in the red and blue is flawed, and if logic isn't attempted then it's just plain petty. Let him play.

I think I'm going to back in Roos, Goodwin and the footy department on this one. I'd say they may have a little more experience identifying talent than most of Demonland.

Go read the Casey reports, it's pretty clear. Younger and fringe players aren't being trained to get in the bests at Casey every week, they're being trained and coached to work on their weaknesses and then execute specific roles on match day. It's called development.

Just watched the replay episode and Sheahan was brilliant. I hope he hosts it next year. That was pretty hard-hitting. At least, in comparison to the drunk.

An ornament to the game...

MS comment on our woeful starts to games and said that it's just not skill based but EFFORT based which Roos agreed with after a few seconds of silence (insert crickets). I think he was actually a bit taken back by the question and wasn't sure how to answer it initially. Good to c what most of us harp on here about the lack of effort from the players is noticed by the coach. Roos also said they will address it over the preseason. Wish MS had asked Roos HOW will this be addressed but unfortunately he didn't. Another preseason of waiting again. Best episode of 360 for the yr I reckon.

Mike was good on afl 360. Him and Gerard just roll off each other and was actually worth watching for once. Wish they made him a full time host with Whately..

Given my username I feel it appropriate that I comment here. When I joined this site I was looking to send up a commentator who had an overblown sense of self-importance. That was way back then... I rest my case!

I like that you asked for thoughts as you've obviously put none into this post.

They could take a leaf out of the StKilda play book and light him on fire

MFC need to do something about free kick practices that have been evident for many seasons. We need to request publicly that the umpires advisors provide us with some assistance to train our players in some of the many features of the game that we obviously do not prepare adequately for. Our players have never had their heads protected from opposition high tackles and yet always seem to give away high tackles. We rarely receive free kicks for in the back while always giving away free kicks for in the back. Opposition players seem able to dispose of the ball in any fashion while we are often pinged for incorrect disposal. If we are in front of an opposition player they can interfere with us with no penalty when we tackle we seem to give away an inordinate amount of free kicks. Opposition teams can play with confidence against us that they will be protected while our players must become frustrated that their efforts are not given the same protection. The number of times free kicks are given against the run of play where an opposition is able to score where we have been denied similar advantage and even when we were commiitting all players to offensive play which is turned around by a free kick whicjh often the players on both sides are confused by is amazing. Maybe I am a biased supporter but I reckon an analysis of free kicks in our games would show a disproportionate imbalance. When I went to most matches years ago it was obvious and I did some comparisons off newspaper reports of all games and our matches were always significantly lopsided. I recall there was a particular umpire who always had a disproportionate record. I dont see enough games and possibly dont care enough but the few games i have followed I always hear the commentators saying "surely that was a free kick" when it was critical to us I rarely hear them saying this when watching other teams. We do not seem to get the dodgy free often. When we have we have like our opponents in most matches won. The game is one of such small percentages that free kicks have a big influence. We need to recognise that we do not know how to get the best result from this attribute of the game. I apologise for raising this matter again but I have never seen any response indicating that we benefit from free kicks and that we know how to exploit the advantage that having free kicks paid can give.

Tragically, I wont be able to make it to the 'G... erm... sorry.. Etihad, for our final erm.. 'home' game of the season, against traditional rival Greater Western Health Service Statistical District. I've gritted my teeth and pushed through these last few ignominious rounds but now there's the hard fact that we are done, this nothing game is all that is left for the Demons in 2015. There's no time to recover dignity or salvage the season if we cop another casual thumping. And let's be honest, a win would be pretty hollow, against another team which has clearly packed up for the season. Jesse Hogan has slipped out of the race to lead the league in contested marks, as well as now being out of reach of making top-10 goalkickers, so even the silly little stats watching is over. There doesn't seem to be any prospects of a final-round farewell for any of our departing players, either, as they just haven't sustained the form to warrant selection. Is anyone planning on going? I was thinking the best thing to do with this game would be turn up with smiley-face masks and banners. Ugh, I'm just disgusted.

The same Lewis Taylor who won the rising star award ahead of the Bont ?

We played Essendon "reserves" at start of season

Hard to predict anything right now rjay. We need to win 2 in a row before anything can be stated with confidence. We should be further ahead but it is obvious certain aspects have stalled. My bet it is above the shouldersI don't think the players believe they can win. You take that attitude to the first bounce and the oponent will smell blood. We all know we need better mids particularly with Jonesy having a poor year But to push to positions 7-11 means 11-13 wins next year Massive draft victories will be needed to get to there Hope you are right. Finals in September are mighty special. It has been too long between drinks

I think we will push for finals next season.... The competition is getting tighter from 5th down to around 12th...there is light years to the top few when the whips get cracking though as we will see again in this years finals. I know most want to wallow but we have improved significantly this year. The list is much better than last year which was better than the year before it. I expect it to improve again and hope that a better run with injury will see on ground improvement. We had the worst list in the AFL, it's improving. Still a long way off but at least it's heading in the right direction.

Overall I agree, but first option footy relies upon having the options. We are so short of players who spread, block and know each others tendencies that we can't get a lot of first option footy going. And sometimes the 5th options is best! http://gfycat.com/BlackandwhiteOrangeGoral

Every year he's come back a bit stronger and fitter and worked hard in the preseason. He's still only 21. How many 21 year olds in any sport (besides maybe gymnastics) compete against men? In US sport he'd be still in college. In European soccer leagues he'd be working his way up from lower league or lesser top team. He can run and kick and he's committed to improving. That alone is worth more time on our list compared to the alternatives.

I think almost every MFC supporter would take Michie & Newton over Terlich, M. Jones, or any of the other countless pre-Roos list-cloggers. Ultimately, they are only depth players though, but they're still an upgrade on the latter.

sheahan is a proper journalist - he completely caught roos on the backfoot and nailed him to the wall. best roos segment of 2015.

For God sakes if we can keep Matt Jones, McKenzie and Bail on our list for many years surely we can give the Toump a chance to develop. He has far more upside than those guys.