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I visit this site every now and then, read some posts but rarely post myself. I am 51, went to my first game in 1969, and watched the game yesterday at the Bentleigh club with my 24 year old son. Our malaise is generational. All of the top teams have three A grade midfielders. We have Jones who some consider A grade and others consider him B grade. We have a lot of nice blokes on our team who I am sure are affable, decent men - Watts, Bail, Toumpas, Fitzy etc. What we need are some blokes who will do anything to get the ball and hurt the opposition. Brayshaw is a start, Jones and Vanders also. I have watched thousands of games. Watts is not a footballer. He's a kid from Brighton who happened to be tall and fast and could kick. Has to go. Then there is our deplorable recent history of wasted top 20 picks - Maric, Blease, Strauss, Cook, Gysberts, Tapscott and I've probably missed a few. The ONLY thing that makes me not lose total faith is remembering how Northey and Daniher turned us around. The difference between then and now is that Northey and Daniher were coaches whereas Roos is a consultant. I just needed to vent!

Ok, let's roll this paper out. Pt.1. The coverage of the incident with the girl including her apologising and saying that she didn't really realise how racist it was and had just picked it up from some family members and other fans. So yes, it is actually on the public record. Also, it is well and truly on the record, and shown in footage from the game, that both Goodes and Jetta had been continually racially abused by the crowd, and that Goodes' decision to turn and point out the source of the abuse as a 'final straw' moment, before he even knew the face of the person he was turning to. Pt 2. "Wah wah wah don't you just hate it when people go around trashing the brand wah wah my country is so great how dare anyone say out loud that there are serious injustices in our history and current society, Australia is so great and free so shut up you stinker". One of these days it might occur to you that the procession of nicey-nice award winners all announcing what a magical land of milk and honey and equality for all are, actually, being divisive. Its just that the 1/3rd or so of Australia that, one way or another, has being left off the communal gravy train has also been cut out of the national conversation. When budgets come out and the papers are covered in 'How will a family on just $150,000 a year cope!', you know the country is messed up. One of the ways it is messed up has been, and continues to be, discrimination against Aboriginal people. If you want a country where someone from such a massively excluded part of the community should stand on a podium and say 'oh yes, I'm delighted with everything, come get a hug, I'm so grateful', maybe democracy isn't for you. Pt 3. a) Stolen Generations is a verified multi-generational event, documented in numerous sources and even found in bureaucratic archives, and actually meets all the (very tight) legal criteria of being an act of genocide in international law. Few pretend that Australia was any kind of utopia prior to settlement but there were a great variety of very different, functioning societies. The colonial and overall 'pre-rights era' set about, as a matter of policy, to destroy any semblance of leadership, continuity or even family connection. In theory the goal was assimilation but this was done in a half-hearted manner, often by people in favour of 'just letting them die out'. Rape of aboriginal women by mission leaders was not only common, but often done on the rationale of 'helping' the Aboriginal community become whiter. Aboriginal women were also routinely assigned as 'domestic servants' to 'help' the 'lonely' white settlers in outback areas, until they were returned mysterious pregnant. Intergenerational patterns of sexual violence were given a massive 'boost' by this era, and the means of healing and community leadership necessary to overcome it were also forcibly dismantled and not replaced. Try to remember that most of the Stolen Generations were selected because of their 'sufficient whiteness of appearance', and that a great many of those white-ish babies were the product of coercion or outright rape that was verifiably encouraged by many local officials as the best solution to the 'Aboriginal problem'. Now, I'm not pretending that Aboriginal communities were some kind of paradise of universal hugs and lollies, but to imply that the sexual abuse issue in remote Indigenous communities is a product of them 'being Aboriginal' and that the Stolen Generations 'myth' as you call it is some kind of excuse to avoid being 'saved' by the whites, is pretty vile and either outright racist or just mind-boggling ill-informed. Have you been getting your news from Andrew Bolt or Quadrant magazine? b) Beneficiary of European Settlement? The man happens to be seriously good at AFL, and you are making it sound like he got there as some kind of handout. Now, I've always been interested by the complex ambiguity of the benefits and harms of the Colonial era worldwide, but like most Aboriginal people Adam Goodes has managed to succeed despite having to overcome real harassment and real discrimination. Saying he somehow owes it to European settlement would be like saying you owe your livelihood to Syrians and Iraqis, since they pioneered urban settlements and all. Pt 4. None of your ancestors committed any atrocities. Ok. Good. Whose lands have they lived on? I guess there weren't any farmers in your family. No foresters, no fishers, no swagmen, shearers, miners, and nobody who, say, lived on the ground. I guess they just all levitated and lived by yogic deep breathing. Your ancestors "going back 5 or 6 generations on 4 sides" were all living and working on Aboriginal land that was forcibly taken. If you have a problem with Aboriginal people objecting to discrimination and pointing to disadvantage now, well, I am sure they would settle for sending you a 220 year rent bill and calling it even. Now, does that cover it, or would you like a reading list?

I've seen this or it's like posted by a few people here... It's not true, we stood up last week and in the game against GC at the start of the year when they came back at us. The difference is we are not good enough to hold the top sides. We don't have enough talent on the park plain & simple. We can't afford injuries to our better players because we don't have many of them.

This. This is the perfect example of the ingrained racism in Australia.

To my mind, anti-Goodes sentiment is about people being uncomfortable with society changing. This was reinforced after speaking with some 60-65 year old relatives. Goodes is lauded for his willingness to stand up against racism and his celebration of his own indigenous culture. He is made Australian of the Year and speaks about how Australia has come from a place of deep institutionalised racism and that we are still on the journey to true racial harmony. But this is taken by conservative (often older) white Australians as an accusation that they are bad people (ie, racists). They resent being labelled as racists because they feel they are good people and have changed with the times as anti-racism becomes more prominent. They remember their own parents and see how they are far less racist than their parents, so society is going 'too far'. Suddenly they feel like everything is going too far and Goodes, by laying down some truths about indigenous relations on a national stage, is being 'racially divisive'. He's not being divisive, but people feel like they have compromised on racism, so they think that aborigines should compromise a little too. The problem is that the world is changing and this change makes them feel uncomfortable. In a strange way, the fact the people are uncomfortable with being called racists is actually a positive step. It means that people acknowledge the idea that being racist is bad thing. It's certainly a big step forward from 20 years ago.

There remains a significant racist population in Australia who habitually look for and make a point of remembering reasons to 'object' to someone who 'just happens to be' Aboriginal. A lot of the conversations about Adam Goodes over the years have been influenced by that scrum. Like the wailing about how 'divisive' his Australian of the year speech was; OMG! He mentioned bad things! OMG! Un-Australian! Slandering white-hater! And that influence, that sustained moaning, affects the conversations of decent people who personally would never consider a person better or worse for any ethnic background. Similarly, there are definitely people who make a special point of booing Goodes because of his background... no, not his background... his 'opinionated and divisive' habit of actually mentioning his background in public. That booing, and the wind-up of excuses for it, encourages other people, who may not be racist at all, to boo Goodes in turn. The 13-year old girl shouting explicit racist abuse really is the face of a lot of racism in Australia. She personally didn't really care or know much at all about Goodes' heritage, but she picked up her lines from adults around her and just gave them a go because it was fashionable in her social circles. I guess what I'm saying is, there may well actually be not very many 'real' racists in Australia, but they are loud, they think they 'stand for real Australia' and they are being allowed too often to get away with making that claim. Their influence produces a lot of racist effects, often enacted by people who personally aren't motivated by racism. But the results, especially for many Indigenous Australians, are just as real and damaging. And this is where it gets tricky; I would argue that it is not appropriate to boo Adam Goodes, even for earnest reasons, because the groundswell that gets that booing going has its heart in racism, and joining that chorus makes racism more confident. But I can see ow that would feel unnatural and timid to a lot of people. Its about where do you draw the line and say "I don't much like Adam Goodes, but I'm not going to get stuck into him, that has been made toxic because of so many racists yelling from the sidelines".

There's such a fine line. If we'd have converted two four goal leads this year we'd be sitting 5 - 4 having played the best four teams of the last two years. Remember not that long ago when we'd be four goals down in the first ten minutes against mediocre opposition most weeks? It's hard to see after second halves like yesterday, but we are getting better. And we're getting better with elite junior talent emerging.

When the list improves. Too much is left to just a few.

Apart from been absolutely fed up with beltings like most like minded dees supporters where the hell are our leaders when our team just folds like a pack of cards. So what we have had a couple of reasonable wins this year....so what? As soon as we have a win, the club runs around with its chest puffed out and then follows up with another belting. This rot has to stop. Enough is enough, and this leadership group need to be accountable, and that includes our skipper. Yes the while leadership group! When will our leaders take control during a run on and settle it down? They are some of the worst culprits when things start to unravel.... No point walking off the ground at the end looking like sad sacks and having a sulk in the rooms, then stating the bleeding obvious at press conferences. This club talks about climbing the ladder.....it's all talk year after year....our leaders - those who are chosen to lead....start doing your jobs FFS, these embarrassing losses have gone on far too long, way to long. When is this nonsense going to turn around?

FMD! ..... one more time..... Calling an Indigenous Australian a monkey or ape is not the same as calling a 6'7" full forward a gorilla, nor the same as calling a redhead Ginger, or someone with big ears Dumbo. WAClark summed it up well earlier in the thread: "for those who think that calling someone an ape/monkey is fine/excusable, these sorts of comments have a history, with a lot of old "common science" pointing to the physical traits of indigenous people as being more primitive/less evolved, none of which ever held any water and were essentially authorised racism. When someone says these things, it is a re-application of these horrible views. Ignorance on behalf of the person saying it is not an excuse."

Updated. At this stage: I would re-sign Garland, Toumpas, Pedersen, Gawn, and upgrade Vanders. I would not re-sign Jamar, McKenzie, Hunt, Bail, and Fitzpatrick. I would trade Howe. That would open up 5 spots on the primary list. I would give King a third year on the rookie list, and White a second. Riley, Cross, and Harmes are wait-and-see prospects for the last half of the season. If all three were moved on that would be 7 spots on the PL and 2 on the RL.

So whats the solution jackaub? Fire everyone, create unstability? Continue to damage the 'culture' of the club. Show the players there is no direction or leadership so they continue their careers elswhere? U hit the nail on the head when in your above post you said we were outplayed. The amazing thing about footy is teams don't change much from week to week - you continue to have the same problems week to week until you develop or recruite a team who can do what you want. The reality is that this club has been playing under Roos for 18 months and the list has been completely turned over. Apart from a Port Adeliaide miracle (which i don't see happening as we don't have the cattle they did) I am really happy the team is competitive most weeks. A couple years ago this was a 100pt flogging. There is no excuses from my end, they boys were soundly beaten yesterday. My point is - we are a young "team'. Yes i know we have some experience which hasbeen brought in but as a Team the boys haven't played enough games together to be consistent week in week out. You combine that with injuries and bring in young players and your Team has holes in it which other teams can exploit. yesterday Port smashed us in clearences and controlled the ball. We as a team couldn't counter their run and carry becuase of multiple reasons you explained. Can Roos perform a miracle in 18 months and turn us in to Port - i'd say no he is no miracle bringer. But he is doing a couple things which the MFC need badly. bringing Development and Stability Some people need to accept that the Dees haven't been anything more then a bottom 6 side for years and this year we are finally making some steps up the ladder - they just won't be massive miracle steps (although I would love that)

Put your hands up if you think we will be turning over a minimum of 8 players this offseason?

By the way the performance of Hogan and Brayshaw is encouraging, Hogan continues to get his 2 goals a game.

One thing for certain....the racists won't fess up on radio or tv. They would have been amongst the crowd booing Goodes, but true to form for racists...they hide behind other excuses. Gutless wonders.

Knowing the selection committee they will drop Pedersen and bring in Dawes.

I really dont mind Goodes at all. He is not going to sit around being told what to say by anyone. He is eloquent without being strident He and Mundine are not there to appease,which is absolutely fine. Neither are Spike Lee or Public Enemy or Nina Simone ,Malcolm X etc.. I like their attitude and understand it. Sen and the footy media are eating their own scrotums to fill in time.

I suspect neither you nor Dunstall have been subject to systematic racism throughout your whole life. It's no coincidence that it's always the white, heterosexual males who say things like this.

Up by 20 vs Adelaide Up by 24 vs Port Up by 33 vs GWS Went on to lose all 3 game by big margins.. so bloody frustrating.

Scully is a clear AFL player. No doubt not the star we thought or GWS thought, but a player. If the foot finishes Trengove, I'll never put him in the dud category. He doesn't belong there any more than Morabito does.

AFL: Blues won't rule out seeking a priority pick And the games begin... Round 3 they declare they are rebuilding, Round 8 sack their coach, if it were the MFC we'd be up for 1/2 million dollar fine for not Tanking..

And....the saving grace for this weekend is that both Scott coaches lost! Yes!!!! *fist pump.

Is this suggesting that decent, tolerant, kind human beings, who go about their business accepting people for who they are, not what the happen to look like are not entitled to be disgusted by the backward, ignorant and vile racism that flashes it's face at times in this country? Unless you've donated money or joined a protest march, you can't express your disappointment at the discriminatory opinions of others?? Voicing your objection is how change comes about.

The first quarter and a bit we showed when we play the game on our terms, run hard both ways and stick tackles what can happen. From there 3-4 errors we caused handed them goals and confidence and they started to push back. Our lack of leadership and maturity meant no one took control and we went back into selfish and lazy football. For the heat and particularly bringing in two quality players underdone we needed to play two extra mids. We should have pulled Fitz from the side as soon as Ryder was not playing. We are getting better but because we now see our good and our bad week to week and even more so quarter to quarter it is truly more frustrating as a supporter. Watts was poor as were others but why he is the specific focus of comments by most and not Howe is beyond me.

Wrong. Every serious loss we have had this year and last year Jones has been unsighted. A true Captain rises above his obstacles when the heat is on When the engine is under severe load...Jonesy is not the man. He is a dam good blue collar worker/soldier...

You're welcome to disagree with me but your response shows where many like yourselves don't understand the issues. You say three of my reasons for not liking Goodes are directly related to race. I couldn't disagree more strongly. It's about his actions and his response to a number of racial incidents. Just to make it crystal clear for you, I have seen no-one trying to justify the racist attacks on Goodes. Nor have I seen anyone trying to deny the claim that some people bo-ing Goodes are doing so because of race. But it is clearly not all people that boo him. What I have seen and what I don't like is the way Goodes responds to those attacks. That has nothing to do with being a racist or the colour of someone's skin. It's about a person's behaviour. I have responded to another post about Michael Long who IMO has dealt with racist issues with much more balance and dignity than Goodes ever has. I respect him for that. The political correctness brigade that tries to tarnish anyone who disagrees with them or anyone that doesn't like Goodes - for whatever reason - as racists are frankly pathetic. They clearly can't distinguish between a person who is boo-ed because of his actions and boo-ed because of his colour.

I agree about the players but with regards to Roos. Consultant.....I used to use that when asked what I do. He didn't do too badly consulting against the Bulldogs.

No.No.No. Whether an inexperienced coach or not he's got enough AFL and 'life' experience to understand right from wrong. The injection regime was at his instigation, no one else's - James Hird's. The governance failures were clearly that management were letting James run his own race. without adequate supervision.

We will still be discussing the same shite as we have been for the last 9 yrs.

Lance feigns superiority just like Hird does. Irritating. For me, when CAS comes down heavily on Essendon's outrageous challenge to sport, the thought that Hird and all the Lances of the world have finally been silenced will be one minor part of the satisfaction. I can't stand con-men and spin-merchants and liars. But in the meantime surely Demonland would be better off without Lance? All his posts are evasion and denial, trying to give the impression of being the reasonable and intelligent one here, with all the cards. Why on earth would any of us give his bulshit the time of day? It's not as though he's here to listen or to concede anything. And who cares anyway? I wonder (just briefly) whether he feels better after making his airy displays of nonchalance on Demonland? Can he really be as self deluding as that?

Boak killed us again. Yep. Trade him, please. I think it's best for both parties too. I still can't believe the rest of the comp haven't woken up to how one dimensional he is as a player. People are frustrated with them as players, not as people. Very different. To be frank, our supporter base deserves more. For absolutely no reason. And he kicked it to Bail. WTF. We haven't got a true A grader yet. That's the problem. Port have Boak and you could argue Gray. Ebert wouldn't be far off either. Jones is B grade, Vince is B grade and the other blokes are too young.

Can anyone on here please offer up a plausible explanation as to what actually happened out there today? Our first quarter was effing brilliant, the pressure and willingness for the contest was plain for all to see. vandenBerg and Jones were unbelievable and the thing that impressed me the most was the way we set up to hold it inside F50. Every time Port got a possession they were just bombing it straight into our wall of players at the half forward line and back in we went. Lamumba's goal was a play of sublime beauty, pressure rewarded well and truly. Second quarter we start out very similar to the first and my son remarks to me, I don't feel nervous any more about this game Dad. I shake my head and say "you don't know this team as well as I do son, we could be 10 goals up and I'd still be nervous". Then we just collapsed, but why?? Yes there were some 50/50 umpiring decisions that went Port's way for some goal opportunities, and that led to a momentum shift, but to me it seriously looked like we had blown all our petrol tickets in the first quarter and a half. I was noticing players looking very flushed, like showing early heat exhaustion signs and I was thinking to myself, hope we haven't gone out too hard here. But surely that's not what happened. These guys are professional athletes with a host of fitness staff and medicos employed to ensure that we can go the distance in games. The centre clearance turnaround was so dramatic after quarter time, so what the hell happened in there? Where did that attack on the ball and intense pressure that was so effective in the first quarter go? I'm honestly at a complete loss trying to explain why this occurred. I've copped a bit of flak on this forum for calling Roos' coaching into question in the past, but seriously, why isn't this bloke getting absolutely grilled by the media to explain why the team is so inconsitent in effort and performance from week to week, or even minute to minute in games. I'm just absolutely struggling to see how we've improved in this area. Last week's performance was very good, we played a tought tackling stoppage fest and wore down the Dogs in the end. It looked like we were going to do the same today but why couldn't we continue that style beyond the halfway point of the second 1/4? Is it all mental? It's like our players have some mental switch that gets flicked off as soon as they have their opponent on the back foot, but once it gets switched off they can't find it again to switch it back on. We've seen it today, against GWS and in the NAB challenge against the Dogs. Probably other examples out there too, but that's a real worrying trend. So what happened today, did Roos get outcoached? did the players give up? were they spent before half time? why is it so?

beaver st earl, backing on to the golf course and creek.......these days they just sort the mail.....saves a lot of trouble than seeking it

Well said Bitter, particularly gutted after today. At one point the commentator mentioned how hard it must be for I think it was Garland. I was like are you f-ing kidding Ive been following this team for 50 years.

bummers lost, makes my day a little better.

People need to realise that we are a young rebuilding team and there will be inconsistency from week to week. That doesn't excuse the performance but it might help explain it. We need to ensure we put scoreboard pressure on when we are dominating the game. It's cost us three times so far this year against GWS, Crows and Port. The signs are still promising with our young brigade but the team needs to realise that if they bring the pressure like last week and against the Tigers, Suns and Crows they'll win more often than not. Let's see how they back up next week.

The play leading up to Spencer's goal was interesting. Toump takes a mark just outside 50 and is called to play on while going back to take his kick for no apparent reason. If you watch carefully, you'll see that the reason is that Ollie Wines had run right across the mark and stuck with him and if they didn't declare an arbitrary play on they would have had to admit it was a 50m penalty and given Toump a shot on goal from about 5m. It didn't actually cost us because Toump has great skills and Spencer held on to a good mark and nailed the goal, gut it's worth mentioning.

He pointed out a racist in the crowd. He didn't know her age. I was there that night and the crowd supported his actions. The balance of power, of everything has been overwhelmingly against the indigenous people of Australia since white people arrived. It will take powerful action to reverse this balance. Eddie McGuire is a complete arseh0le and should never have compared him to an ape. In fact he should have been sacked by the radio station.

Wow, you're coming from a looong way back in the pack. I... nup, can't be bothered. Why don't you just get on back to commenting on The Bolt Report.

Has there ever been a team that has so consistently found new and creative ways to gut its supporters?

Adam Goodes gets continually/regularly booed because he is an arrogant, self centred [censored]. NOT because he is of indigenous heritage. If he was caucasian the boos would remain the same.

Anything is possible. In my case, all I have ever wanted is a fair and balanced investigation into this saga. I think evidence is there that there were at least unusual practices going on (wide ranging injection program off site over a considerable period of time, importation of illegal materials which circumstantial evidence seems to be connected to the EFC, disappearance of record keeping which would be expected to be kept and in 99% of cases, involvement of people with criminal records related to pedalling and importation of illegal drugs, etc etc etc). Athletes around the world have received lengthy bans with a lot less evidence than this under the WADA code. All I ask is that this evidence is considered by experts in this field in a totally unbiased manner, in an atmosphere of impartiality. It has not been up to date. It will be by CAS outside the hysterical atmosphere which is created by Hird, Essendon, and AFL aided and abetted by the Australian Press whenever it is considered in Australia. Fortunately for those of us concerned about fairness, it looks as though it will now be moved to Europe.where it will be considered in an unbiased, well balanced manner. Under these circumstances, I will be more than happy to accept the Umpires' decision. Will those who created this mess? Somehow I doubt it.

At least 50% Australians are inherently racist, they say they're not but usually start a derogatory sentence with "l'm not racist but......" Goodes IS being booed because of race and his outspoken views about stolen generation and white Australians treatment of indigenous people over 220 years! I reckon he's a great role model for aboriginal kids to stand up and not take the crap and tokenism of white Australians anymore!

A few hung themselves today!

I suspect no one really wants Dank to be called before a statutory authority and "spill the beans" Chris. Especially the AFL & the EFC. Quite happy for him to move on and brush the dirt under the carpet. Easier to avoid an AFL lead investigation where he couldn't be called upon or forced to give evidence than be caught up in a civil prosecution if he aired any dirty laundry against the AFL/EFC to the press. No doubt he was made well aware of the possible financial implications if he did (spill) by those with the most to lose.

[censored] if I know. Look it up

Hit the road Jeremy Howe You are a one trick pony with no heart

Indigenous round... Indigenous dance. What's the problem? I'd rather have beer with Goodes than Fence.

And I get called a pervert - can't work it out!

You are implying that every single boo he receives, which is literally thousands, are all directed at him because of his race?! Rubbish. Some, perhaps. Most, no. So i guess Ballentine gets booed because he is white? Same with Crowley etc. Plenty of other indigenous players playing tonight, Yarran, Jetta etc. Are they being booed? No.