Leaderboard

The tribunal found that Dank injected what he thought was TB4. That he got it from Alavi, who believed he was compounding TB4. Who in turn got it from Charters, who believed he was buying TB4, from a Chinese pharmaceutical company who stated that the only thymosin they provided was TB4. But the tribunal thought, what if it actually wasn't TB4? The only way to know would be if ASADA managed to go back in time, get hold of that actual shipment and have it lab tested. That is not comfortable satisfaction. That is shooting for 100% certainty. That is beyond reasonable doubt. Life must be a daily struggle for those tribunal members. "Dear, did you put sugar in my coffee?" "Yes, dear, didn't you see me put it in?" "Yes." "And you saw me get it out of the sugar bowl." "Yes, I did." "And can't you taste it?" "Yes, I can. But how can we be sure???" "I'm not paying for this petrol." "But sir, you've just pumped in 50 litres of 91 octane." "It might be LPG." "But you pumped it from the bowser labelled 91 octane." "Yes, I did." "Which was filled last night by a tanker filled with only 91 octane." "I accept that." "Here is the invoice from Shell for one tanker of 91 octane." "I accept that, too." "What's more we don't even sell LPG here." "I noticed that." "And if it was LPG, your car wouldn't start." "I know all that. But how can we be sure???"

Thought id start a thread on something i received today. An old high school friend of mine just started a digital media job at AFL house, sent me an email saying that the word going around strongly is that we along with St Kilda are two clubs pushing really hard for his signature at the end of the year. Roosy and Goodwin are massive fans of him and rate his leadership highly. The signs are that its a possible chance that he might return home as his GF is starting a new job in Melbourne aswell. The Simon Goodwin factor could be huge in this. Watch this space.

They may well have been. Who knows (or cares now)? I was never worried about him going, but it's the symbolism of these signings that matters to me. Our young players are clearly investing in the club. I love it.

On the face of it I don't like the changes but I have a feeling Roos is looking at the list and who will be around in the future. Better to do this against teams you aspire to be like than other low level clubs.

It is clear what the coaching staff saw as the major issue we had last week, and it's also clear that they are trying to fix it. Run, especially forward of the ball. We lack running ability. We lacked it last week and we brought in 4 hard running players that can spread and provide an option. This has especially been the case since Kent hurt himself, as we lack a lot of pace forward of the footy. It means that we can't find easy targets forward of the ball and every goal we get has to be fought for relentlessly. Hawthorn are a really good running team. If we take a team that provides the lacklustre run that we showed last week, then we will be smashed. Running is more important than most people think. A lot of posters only see errors, but never consider the benefits of the rest of their game because they only follow the ball.

I'm amazed people still haven't got their heads around free agency.

I get that the AFLPA is looking after the player's interests whatever they. If it's money, then the AFLPA has to stick up for that. But I don't get how the AFLPA has been sucked into this "ASADA are bad guys" narrative. Why aren't the AFLPA demanding that Dank, Alavi, Charter, whoever, are made accountable for whatever the flip was stuck into those players? Why aren't the AFLPA demanding that the players get to know exactly what happened to them?

how to say this nicely FCUK YOU HAWTHORN !!!! there

Or this one.

F me, people are stupid if they think that Essendon had smoking gun evidence of their innocence and handed it over without keeping a copy, and even if for some ridiculous reason that happened, they'd be jumping up and down making sure the public knew about it alot sooner than this. James hird's ability to warp reality to suit his situation is the smoking gun evidence of who is guilty or innocent the same man claimed at the press confrence that they self reported in that he didn't know what the players were given, there was no way of knowing, but it wasn't TB4 wink wink now he's claiming they did know, it was on a spreadsheet that ASADA apparently destroyed to strengthen their case, because like the rest of the world they're part of a massive conspiracy to get james hird I mean come on, they undertook a two year multi million dollar injection regime that was as they said themselves " experimental" and didn't keep records, obviously they didn't have any interst in seeing what results their money bought about... They have consistently backflipped on their own story depending on the most pressing public allegation at the time. Accusing ASADA of delivering an unlawful investigation, destroying evidence, and going out of it's way to harrass the club. it's a scatter gun argument, shoot at as many points as they can and hope someone is stupid enough to listen. AFL tips EFC off ASADA investigate EFC only to find no records, and noone seemingly having a club what had been going on for the previous two years I wonder what happened in between those two events... RANT OVER

here's to a Hogan/Brayshaw style start to his career from round 1, 2016

Methinks the players know the AFL manipulated the last result in their favour, but now that the result is in the hands of WADA (who will be desperate to make an example of Essendon for the disgusting arrogance they've shown throughout), they realise justice will actually be served. It's no coincidence all the leaks immediately after the last hearing had players [censored] themselves, yet mysteriously a week before the result was announced, all the commentators began gleefully boasting their "opinion" that players would get off due to lack of evidence. Most notably Tim Watson. Funny that. Independent tribunal my ass.

And another interesting article from an unexpected source, Chip in The Australian: WADA's appeal to place more faith in Dank's word

Well we're at least saved a week from the sh!tstorm that is discussing the merits of Watts' performance. Uninspiring ins but can see the value of adding a bit of run to what was an offensively sluggish side. Glad to see Viv slot straight back in. Stick with him Roosy. The boy can play.

When WADA/CAS finishes with this, they are likely to have some pretty tough things to say. The AFL will want to survive with some credibility, and a fall-guy will certainly help them. Besides, Essendon will be sued from pillar to post for the next who-knows-how-long, as well as being terminally discredited - more for what happened since they were outed than for the original doping regime. Essendon may not be saveable. The AFL needs to be. Club overboard!

Okay, I will. The tanking saga was almost like a practice run for this drugs thing. An issue that the AFL clearly didn't want to front up to (until goddam AA blinked while Vlad's back was turned), and even then, tried to massage a result to make it look like they were doing something about it. The unpalatable scenario was that we would be found guilty of tanking, and then the AFL could rightly be accused of running a corrupt competition, with the sponsorship and legislative nightmares that would follow. So the [censored] found us guilty of something else. All the while, we supporters were raging against the machine, city hall, anything, and some were even believing that we never really tanked at all! Sounds familiar so far ... Now the differences come in. We didn't have half the media as supporters, who could wage war on our behalf. We didn't have a billionaire standover merchant as president who could negotiate his own penalty. (Imagine if Joe Public could do that in "real life".) We didn't have a statutory body involved who could kick the whole thing upstairs and out of the AFL's grasp. Vive la difference!!!!!

Interesting... And how do you think the game will go?

Heres another article that tell it how it is. http://www.sportsfan.com.au/why-the-wada-appeal-is-good-for-football/tabid/91/newsid/161706/default.aspx?cid=SF_LOWDOWN_AFL_article_whythewadaappealisgoodforfootball_140515

Nicely put mate. I agree with every word. Im beyond contempt for them now. I honestly hope the players are found guilty, banned for 2 years, and then sue the club out of its miserable existence. As for the AFLPA, they are simply showing what their real mission is, and that is to protect the players MONEY, in preference to their health. Watch them change tack when guily verdicts are given, or positive test results are found. Then it will be six shooters blazing into the sky, while they charge like a western posse towards the nearest court. Their behaviour in all of this has been disgusting also, but you can read their future like a book. AFL interest - MONEY AFLPA interest - MONEY WADA/ASADA - Justice

Brilliant!

As I have said before on DL. Neil young is the perfect person to be involved. He's seen the needle and the damage done

I do hope you are right. I have lost respect for the AFL administration over its handling of the Essendon FC drug case. As it appears to me as if the AFL just wanted the issue to go away and is not that concerned about the possibility of illegal substances being used by club sanctioned supplement programs.

Agreed - even if they were duped (a little) by Danks, Hird et al the players are still responsible for what goes into them, as long as they were conscious, AND they continue to reap the benefits of the TB4 injections. Former Olympic athletes I know are disgusted that they have even got to play this long without real sanctions.

If the players took banned drugs they are far from blameless and they must be banned, and the ban must mean something. Otherwise it sends the message that athletes can blame their club/coaches and even if found guilty will miss no time.

I actually don't mind these changes. Yes, there is some dodgy disposal, but they can run, tackle and win the ball. All good things. They are all 20+ disposal players as well, so that should help. My concern is that we're going to be a little short, lacking a second ruck option and possibly a tall forward.

Jones and Bail were bound to be called upon eventually. I don't love it but recognise what they bring to the table: run, which was pathetic last week. Watts is the only genuine AFL grade player to make way out of the side anyway. I don't see Grimes, Jones and Bail being that enormous a downgrade on Pedersen, Newton and JKH.

there's probably 11 players of the 22 this week that I just plain don't rate and/or have been in horrific form all year. Siiiiigh

Smashin' coming!!!

Ok how about. or Sorry about an earlier gif posted before text popped up.

you have much more faith in IT disk forensics than i do........................but then i only worked in IT for 35 years

Conflicted. Players should stump up their own cash if they want a PA with teeth.

essendon never "just handed over documents" all handovers were documented by legal eagles on both sides following well established procedures using deloittes under contract both sides would have copies and fully documented receipts hird could be sued for his pathetic comments

I notice on here recently that many are calling for Essendon to be suspended for 2-4 years or banned altogether. I think we should be a bit careful what we wish for. A ban on Essendon would dismantle the economics of our game, unravel media rights particular at a time when they are up for renegotiation, and of the rules that the AFL has carefully built up over the years to make the competition more equitable and frankly more interesting. I'm not sure any of us wants that to happen. It also may explain why the AFL has been so manipulative in this exercise in an effort to protect the economics of the game. But this must not, and cannot be through allowing rouge elements to get away with cheating, or defiance of drug rules as set out in the WADA code. I am definitely not making excuses or softening the need to have those responsible for this appalling situation at Essendon punished. The WADA/CAS process must take its course in accordance with the WADA code. Let's assume though as a result of the appeal to CAS, a portion (more than 3) of the players were to be banned for 2 years. This then gives grounds for Essendon as a whole to receive the same treatment. I'm not entirely certain the mechanism for doing this but I have an idea the sentences are the responsibility for the code itself through its own Tribunals, but they must satisfy CAS they are reasonable and commensurate with the crime. This may leave therefore some room for negotiation. It this were the case, what would be reasonable, but also protect the future of the AFL itself? How about something like this? A. Essendon admit their responsibility for this affair, and apologise to the broader football community for bringing the game into disrepute, and putting their players health at risk, and apologise to the broader Australian sporting public for tarnishing the good name of Australian sport; B. Hird, and his key staff get life bans, some of the Board including Little resign, and basically rebuild the club from within. The new administration would then have to undertake to put in place a governance regime reflecting the WADA code and best practice risk management; and C. Essendon continue playing in the AFL but with a revised list minus the banned players. Meantime, WorkSafe continue their investigation and have the cards fall as they may. The rest will be worked out in the courts as the legal actions from players, the Hirds, and the agents commence and conclude, no doubt costing the club tens of millions of dollars. Hopefully, by the end of all this there will be a viable AFL competition, a contrite, consierably poorer Essendon, and a wiser AFL which understands the need for modern risk management practices in itself and its clubs. And there is a firm reaffirmation of the AFL's commitment to, and championing of, the WADA codes across all Australian sport. Maybe some good could come out of all yet.

There is no doubt in my mind that Drugendon are paying Lawyers to write and verbal "Cash for Comments" to push their own agenda Some of the rubbish written about WADA/ASADA is just wrong The AFLPA are also a complete disgrace. They of all should be in WADA's corner. Player Health..... This saga is going to get really filthy and nasty Drugendon are going to get ripped apart and the AFL is powerless Vlad should never have tipped them off Fat Fool you are Vlad...Your tenure was a sham No regard for player welfare in terms of ACTUALLY finding out what was injected. I loath this club beyond words Let us pray that WADA feels the same way.

I don't expect a win but I don't expect a flogging either. My expectations have been lifted by the lift in performance this season and I see a Hawthorn team weakened playing against a team of players waiting for a game where their confidence 'clicks' at the same time. Our top 6 players are not at their best right now, but would stack up against Hawthorn's best 6 for the first time in about a decade. Start with some confidence and I think we will be a chance. But have 5 players with the predominant mindset they have shown in the last few weeks of inertia and concern and we will get badly beaten.

So much for the 'rumour' last week that Hawthorn were into him big time. Ha! What I like about the young brigade signing up beyond Roos' tenure of 2016, is it signals they are confident in and believe in Goodwin as well.

I live to see the response from Demonlanders the first time a player gets asked about how we will do on the weekend and he says " pretty much, we will get smashed"

He's not on the outer. They just let their kids develop.

he would be well down the list

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/james-hirds-distorted-thinking-evident-once-again-as-wada-appeals-essendon-decision-20150512-gh01xv.html Caro sticks the boots in on an unrelated note - anyone who doesnt like WADA or ASADA (whatever you think of their competence or lack of it) is effectively pro drugs in sport. When i read comments on the herald sun website along the lines of "they are hopeless and a waste of government money", i wonder if that person really wants their sport full of drugs. the prospect of the AFL commission choosing to walk away from the WADA code sickens me. If they did choose to do that, the backlash on them from the average supporter i hope would be significant - certainly it would pretty much kill my interest in football.

Thought I'd add this. For those wanting Viney and Jetta back this week, both were at the pre game function on Sat night and did a Q&A with some of the supporters. Essentially, Viney said, "he's 40/60 to play this week". But pretty much ruled himself out through body language. I'd be really surprised to see him listed. For those wondering about Jetta, he thinks he's ready to go, but they saw the specialist when he had the concussion two weeks ago and basically said he's had 6 concussions in the last year and a bit. Specialist said its minimum 4 weeks on the side line. So while he thinks he's good to go, the club is taking no chances on the long term health of any of their players.

So far this season not even Lance Franklin has managed to get over Tom McDonald. Just quietly - McDonald, Dunn, Jetta, Garland and of course Salem... Something is going alright in our defensive group. JADE RAWLINGS – BACKLINE COACHRawlings, the club’s backline coach, joined Melbourne in September 2011. He was the only coach from the Mark Neeld/Neil Craig era to be part of Paul Roos’ coaching panel.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-05-14/demon-petracca-set-to-sign-on-for-two-more-years

for those unaware : More lies, counter-claims and hatred: Can WADA do what ASADA couldn't?I fell decidedly odd posting something from DB in a positive manner. . Strange times !! Its a reasonable portrayal of the situation though...so well done Barrett.. ( think I need to shower )

I can see no way any major sport..or minor for that matter will be able to operate and be accredited , funded , assisted etc in this country if it doesnt abide by the rules...i.e the WADA code. A country with such a massive sporting monicker will not be allowed to have one of it s prime codes operate OUTSIDE of the fence.

That will bring back memories...

Correct DF the day Andy left and Gil the Dill took over it has been a case of get the lowest possible sanctions.The AFL is horribly conflicted and should never have been part of the judgment process. Gil was stating their innocence before the decision was handed drown. "Justice must not only be done but appear to be done" Gil failed miserably on both counts.

Doesn't excite me. Could be a good player, but I get the sense that a lot of the love for him is sentimental.

Jones would not be on the outer at the Swans. They just have incredible depth. Would absolutely love to see him in the red and the blue. For many reasons.

The blame - sometimes - lies with his flat-footed team-mates for not providing options. There have been several occasions this year where he's had the ball for an eternity waiting in vain for someone to lead or get free and call for it.