Leaderboard

This is the current staff list. I was on the Board in 1985 and the staff then would have been about 10% of the current number. Then again so was the turnover. For those that don't know the names of the people running our club, they are listed below and can be found on the club website, under The Club. Chief Executive Office - Peter Jackson - Chief Executive Officer - Chelsea Giansiracusa - Executive Personal Assistant Finance & Administration - Amanda Howes - Human Resource Manager - David Chippindall - Finance Manager - Tom Reseigh - Senior Accountant - Cameron Hirth - Accountant - Rob Halliday - Strategy Analyst - Jimmie Martin - IT Manager - Brendan Esmore - IT Support Consumer - Jennifer Watt - General Manager Marketing and Communications - Matt Burgan - Editor & Chief Football Writer - Debbie Lee - Community Manager - Ryan Larkin - Media Manager - Matthew Goodrope - Communications Coordinator - Ryan Earles - Digital Marketing Manager - Dave Larkin - Graphic Designer - Anna Harrington - Digital Media Coordinator - Georgina Lewis - Customer Relations Executive - Courtney Hart - Digital Video Producer - Alexandra Luxford - Community Trainee Events - Frances Lockhart - Viki Micevska - Event Executive - Bridget Hanson - Event Executive Membership and Retail - Jane McGough - Manager – Consumer Business - Jane Lonsdale - Membership Team Leader - Brooklyn Fraser - Membership Officer - Aisling McCarthy - Membership Officer - Emma Loraine - Membership Officer - Georgia Hillman – Retail Manager - Ashley Webster - Administrationand Retail Trainee Partners & Corporate - George De Crespigny - Chief Commercial Officer - Russell Robertson - Club Development Manager - Tom Parker - Strategic Relationship Manager - Peta Christie - Sponsorship Manager - Georgina Swain - Sponsorship Account Manager - Aaron O'Meara - Sponsorship Account Manager - Julian Heinz - Manager - Sales - Steve Kourasanis - Corporate Sales Account Manager - Leon McConville - Corporate Sales Account Manager - Celia McDonald – Commercial Coordinator - Jackie Emmerton - Gifting & Relationship Manager - Sharon Wangman - Bequest Manager Football Department - Paul Roos - Senior Coach - Todd Viney - Manager Player Personnel - Josh Mahoney - Manager Football Operations - Simon Goodwin - Senior Assistant Coach - Ben Mathews - Midfield Coach - Jade Rawlings - Backline Coach - Daniel McPherson - Forward line Coach - Brendan McCartney - Devlopment and Strategy Coach - Brett Allison - Head of Development - Brad Miller - Development Coach - Shannon Byrnes - Welfare and Development Coach - Justin Plapp - Casey Scorpions Coach - Mallory Smith - Football Administration Manager - Sean Larkin - Football Operations Coordinator - Andrew Nichol - Player Development Manager - Jason Taylor - National Recruting Manager - Kelly O’Donnell - Pro scouting - Darren Farrugia - Recruiting Technology Coordinator - Tim Lamb - National Recruiting Officer - David Misson - Elite Performance Manager - Robert Jackson - Strength & Conditioning Manager - Charles Allen - Load Manager - Alex Sakadjian - Sport Science Co-ordinator & Rehabilitation Coach - Paul Blackman - Head Doctor - Zeeshan Arain - Club Doctor - Bianca Scotney - Match Day Doctor - James McLaren - VFL Doctor - Steve Allan - Physiotherapist - Sam Pietsch - Physiotherapist - Joel Ames - Physiotherapist - Peter Roberts - Training Services Co-ordinator - Anthony Brown - Property Manager - Pete Roberts - Football Technology Manager - Michael Scott - Football Analyst - Joanna Shinewell - Nutritionist - Spike Harris - Team Manager

Amazing the way the footy mates media is willing to believe Lewis's excuse. Everyone knows Lewis sized up Goldstein and gave him one. And yet people want to believe he had no time or intention to round-arm the marker. If footballers can change their kicks half-way through kicking, or give a look-away reflex handball, or find an alternate option out of the corner of their eye, they can certainly make their minds up in a split second to hit or not hit a marker's head.

I have serious concerns for the people who are saying they wouldn't want Harley Bennell at the Dees.

IMO comparisons to the Bulldogs are quite misguided. It's not hard to get swept up in what they're achieving so far but Essendon beat Hawthorn in Round 2 and has gone markedly backwards since - the Sydney win doesn't necessarily mean the Bulldogs are going to finish top 4, or even top 8, or have a stellar year. Meanwhile this so-called 'basket case' won 7 games in 2014, 8 in 2013, 5 in 2012 and 9 in 2011 (having played in a preliminary final in each of 2008-2010). That isn't remotely close to the kind of rock bottom we went to in 2012-2013 (off the back of the previous rock bottom in 2008-2009). McCartney laid a whole lot of groundwork in his time there which Beveridge has tweaked - and tweaked well mind you - to reap the rewards of. Neeld didn't lay that kind of platform for Roos, on the contrary he took out the entire foundation of the club. Good on the Dogs for exceeding expectations, I'd love us to be doing what they're doing now, but I'm not sure it's fair to be assuming we should be doing what they're doing.

Was a good interview - some highlights below. * It was the great Robbie Flower who helped get Viney to Melbourne. Todd was also talking to Essendon at the time, but when Melbourne invited him over to Victoria, it was Robbie who they dispatched to the airport to pick up Todd, who was impressed by Robbie's love for the game as they spoke on the way home. The following morning, Robbie appeared dressed up in a khaki suit, some sort of practical joke apparently. * Todd actually went on the 1985 end-of-season trip to Hawaii with the MFC. On the plane Todd was talking to a player (who he refused to name) and mentioned that he was talking to the Dons, and the player said to him: "Well what the f*** are you doing on the plane with us?" * Played chess with Barassi on the beach in Hawaii during that trip - Ron said to him: "I don't care how much talent you have, I care about what you do with it." * Said he suffered a bad dose of the 2nd-year blues, and by his own admission, he was more interested in how many drink cards he could accumulate than possessions. Says he deserved to be dropped in the finals but Strawbs' suspension left the door open to return to the GF team. He wrote a letter to Northey begging to play, and suggested he line up on a wing from where he could clean up Brereton (something Brereton did the following year against Yeates). * Loved to play aggressive - said when the opportunity arose to hurt someone on the field, he would. * The biting incident with West Coast's Chris Lewis came at a time when AIDS was prominent. The bite drew blood. Viney said he was told he had to get a blood test; next thing, the Herald Sun was all over it with a front page saying Viney going for an AIDS test. Said in later years when he came across Mick Malthouse, Malthouse said he had never forgiven him (Viney) for what he did to Lewis. Unfortunately, Mike didn't follow this up and ask whether they were on speaking terms today. * Being an assistant coach at Hawthorn for the 2008 flag is probably his favourite footy memory - the chance to teach, shape and mould a team and then see it come to fruition. * Said the offer from Mark Philippoussis was too good to refuse - effectively doubling what he was earning at Melbourne, and Philippoussis was in good form at the time, but he ultimately ended up clashing with the 'Poo's father, Viney saying he was made a scapegoat. * The MFC of 2011 (around the time of Bailey's sacking) was the 'most fractured' environment he'd ever been in. Said every decision was second-guessed, there was no trust, no self-belief and no real plan. * Describes Roos as calm, logical, methodical. Says his eye is on the goal and he knows how to stay the course and shut out the noise in the background. * Very proud of Jack and the way he goes about it. Says he's slowly learning about the feats of his father at the MFC. * Also put to rest the apocryphal myth about beating Boris Becker. He did play against Stefan Edberg as a junior, which somehow morphed into Becker, and when Lou Richards mentioned it during an interview early on, Viney stayed silent and didn't correct the record. * Spoke of the difficulty of having to speak at Robbie's funeral. Said he had copious notes, but no way of conveying in words just how good a person Robbie was. Also acknowledged the deaths of his other team-mates and friends, Jimmy and Sean, Dean Bailey, and Neale Daniher's battle with illness. One other noteworthy thing was hearing Mike talk about Schwarz '94 - said he was as good as Carey at that stage, and Carey is his all-time no.1 best player. Right at the end, Todd asked Mike if he could read a short statement on the drafting of Jimmy Toumpas. Mike said yes, but unfortunately time was up and the show ended just as Todd started reading.

Did you like your own post? I like it!

I'd love to see the toump come up to AFL level and play a blinder, partially to see this thread explode, but mostly because we desperately need him too!

You know it's desperate when people are calling for Bail's inclusion.

Maybe they are all missing what Karmichael Hunt brought to the table!

So finished it off on the way to work this morning - wow we turned off. Bail - Breaks the lines, bursts through packs and looks like a really good VFL player. However, looking at some of the other players for Casey, he does not have enough strings to the bow. He is fast and now, to his credit, he has a hardness to his game. Disposal is not there. I was for delisting him at the end of the year but can see him getting a contract extension (1 year) or a rookie contract. He is good enough to be on the bottom end of an AFL list. Jones - Unlike Bail, he seems to get more of the ball on the outside. Again great speed and can see why he stood out at this level and we wanted to draft him. Offers a bit around the ground but with Jones, Viney and Tyson I think he doenst have a place in the Dees team at the moment. Riley - I just wonder. Got plenty of it, was at the bottom of packs and worked himself into the game. It is such a scrappy style which will often be overlooked because he is not the one breaking away with the ball (he fed it to the runner). I like him and I like him on the list, but with Viney on the way back and Brayshaw in the team, I just dont think there is a position for him in the 22. We missed speed and run and the other 3 experienced mids offered this. Toumpas - Great first half and if he played 4 quarters like that he would be back next week. The first half was characterised with run and linking up. His teammates went to him much more and he was in more of the clearances. In the second half he was around the ball but couldn't keep his hands on it. He'd drop a mark, or be the man who was handballed to when a tackle was immanent or tracked the ball to the boundary. A lot of wing work and ran all day (he is getting miles in his legs). Another 2 games in the VFL at least for my mind. There is no need to bring him up just yet. Fitzy - Cannot believe it was Fitzy. He looked like a full back. He read it well in flight, he was too strong for the Don's forwards and his kicking wasn't terrible. He will be offered a contract - he has shown too much not too. Commands the backline a little like Dunn does. Very vocal and very clear. The benefits of having a 200cm, quick man down back who can also relief ruck is too tempting to say goodbye too. He might not get to 100 games, but he'll be a dee for a few more years. Gawn - If he could take more contested marks he would be playing from the square in the AFL. Dominated the ruck and showed a lot around the ground. Hope they are working him hard in training out of the square. Kicking wasnt bad for a big man, really good physical pressure, but he should be taking more marks inside 50. Better delivery might help but Hogan did it (I know thats not a fair comparison). Spencer - Humble Pie this guy. His start of the season in the VFL has been mosterous. He is doing everything to be in line for a recall, however - kicking and marking are still issues. Nothing you dont already know - tap work he is in front of Gawn, but behind in his work around the ground. Terlich - Spoiled well, husseled, but disposal was terrible and beaten by his man on the day. White and Harmes - Yeah they played but I didnt really notice them that much but when they were involved they were strong. Developing players and the jury is still out. Will continue to support and hope. Now to my 2 new favourite players Disclaimer. Thank you Western Bulldogs. You handed us a great development coach who is having a great influence on our club. You are taking a lot of headlines at the moment and meaning we can slip under the radar. But my favourite part is that you took McLean, Webb, Hamilton, Dale and Daniel when the "draft-perts" said you needed to take a tall in McDonald. Even when you went small you didnt take Neal-Bullen. Neal-Bullen was rated pick #21 by both Cal Twomey and Knightmare and #23 by Paige; Oscar rated 22 (Knightmare), 25 (Twomey) and 27 (Paige). We got them at 40 and 53 and we have McCarrtney developing them. Neal-Bullen - Feel like he will play AFL this year. Tackles like Brayshaw and goes hard at in (like Brayshaw). In the first half he ran from contest to contest to get himself involved. Picked up a few touches but found himself at the bottom of packs either tackling or being tackled. In the second half he was moved into the centre square and was able to get first hands on the ball. His decision making needs a bit of work, but generally his disposal is good. Watching him, it is reflective of what Cal Twomey was saying about the draft. After the top 4, the rest of the draft is quite even and teams will be drafting for needs, rather than best player as they all have their strengths and weaknesses. I dont think there was much difference in terms of skill between him and Laverde, although Laverde's height is a big plus. Rather him then Boekhorst and Ellis so far. Lonie (St Kilda, pick 41) and Nel-Bullen may be the steals of this draft. I'll make a call, round 16 will be his first game v Brisbane. Will compete with Michie and Cross for their positions. Probably will need to wait till Cross retires to get a solid run at seniors. McDonald - If I told you he read the ball really well, left his man when he needed to to help out others, tackles strongly and tracks the ball well, comes out of defence with great speed and takes intercept marks coming out of our 50 and sends it back in, but still needs to but on strength as he is still a bean pole - does he remind you of anyone we drafted with pick #53 a few years back? The difference is his kicking. He can send some bullet passes down the ground that hit the middle of the chest - however at the moment they are being delivered to the opposition. One that stands out is when he went to ANB on a 2 on 1 and ignored Bail and Jones. Needs to lower the eyes a little more. Considering he never played under 18 championships, he wont be used to the speed and pressure of VFL so assume this will come in time. Dont expect him to play this year unless there are some serious injuries. He is behind Fitz in a call up and doesnt have the size to play on AFL forwards yet - maybe a rangy half forward with his speed, but will get pushed off the ball too easily at the moment. If he stays injury free I'm looking forward to seeing him in Demon colours for a little next year before cementing a spot in 2017/2018. If you read his Knightmare draft profile watching him play is like reading this. Reads the flight, rebounds well, versatile, can shut down an opponent. Looks like we have worked on his 2nd and 3rd efforts because these were much better today. Best on for me was Fitz and Gawn. Bail and Jone got in the possessions but when the game was close Gawn, Fitz and Toump were the ones driving it. When we got on top, Jones and Bail took over and dominated the game and then disappeared when the Dons had their come back. At this point, Gawn stood up in the centre and down forward and Fitz was great in the last line of defence and rebounding from the back half. For the changes thread, I wouldnt be rushing anyone in due to our lack of intensity in the final quarter. Roos was talking about selfish football and at the VFL level we saw this a lot with the mids. Blazing and kicking without thinking how can I help a mate out to help the team. If Roos was not happy with the Dees, he wont be happy watching the Casey replay. Depending on the outs will dictate who comes in as no one hammered down the door. If it is Salem then Jones or Bail for some speed, if you are dropping an in and under then Riley. If you want another tall then Gawn. A poster in the other thread suggested Fitz in to take on Tippet. Although I'd like to see this match up - he's not there yet. Essendon's lack of talented tall forwards is a very different assignment than the Bondi Billionaires. Give the Casey boys another few weeks and really break the door down - I think you'll be pleasantly surprised at who will be coming in.

Because Toumpas was the standout choice at the time. Toumpas has proven to be an ordinary selection but recruiters don't get the benefit of hindsight. FWIW, you were one of the 148 Demonlanders who voted Toumpas. http://demonland.com/forums/index.php?/topic/32253-poll-wines-or-toumpas/

You know .... strangely enough .... I reckon he's got it in him.

Hasn't stopped you.

i have a few from the 87-91 erano ads. Straight feed from the Ch 7 truck. I am going to put them up on youtube soon when i get some time.

Probably because there's no evidence to say they prevent concussion.

I hesitate to buy into this but saying what we 'are lacking' now is missing a critical point. You may be right in saying Ollie is the player we are lacking now but he was not at the time of the draft. AT THE TIME our 'classy speedy' midfielder had just defected to GWS and needed to be replaced. (Blease was speedy but there was no real confidence he would develop his defensive side (he didn't)). AT THE TIME the team had a few inside midfielders (not enough but a few): Jones, Sylvia, Viney, etc etc. Therefore, given list manangement needs as they stood then, the decision was Toumpas, speed over grunt. (Toumpas' speed is acknowledged even now; it is his disposal that is being worked on). Evaluation of a decision needs to be made in the context of the list position/team needs and balance AT THE TIME not 3 years later. ps Sorry to 'shout' by using CAPS but I feel the time context is important.

There is a little something for those who have already renewed.

the one I find as ridiculous is - "let's draft xxxx. He barracked for Melbourne as a kid".

We seem to have drifted far enough from the initial discussion point, which had something to do with some television programme, to suggest there's not much more to be gained from keeping it going.

Thanks Chris, that's a relief as it would be dangerous if ASADA could simply turn up and say prove you didn't take this. Re Essendon, with the circumstantial evidence ASADA had the onus should have been on the EFC to prove what the players did take in the knowledge of an injection program where no records were kept. The EFC could have compelled Dank to provide evidence of required with the threat of civil damages. I was always curious as to why the Tribunal wasn't able to consider that the EFC had met with Dank and Charter after the show cause notices were issued to pick holes in ASADA's case but not to establish what the players were injected with. You could argue that the EFC met Dank and Charter with the specific purpose to ensure ASADA could not establish what the players were injected with.

Thanks for reminding me that channel 9 have two horrendous footy programs.

The perfect trade, our McKenzie for their McKenzie . Win-win for us

I gotta say it. When I start reading threads in which certain posters start questioning Ben Newton's his value after some inconsistency in performances, you know there are some deeper issues surrounding the club. A player with a total of 9 games to his name. Garland Jamar McKenzie Grimes Bail Fitzpatrick Spencer Watts Dunn Howe Gawn Spencer Jones Terlich There's one common theme I see in that group of players. Inconsistency in performance. Some of them have questionable football smarts, talent and skill-level and others have questionable 'effort' and physicality in general. Some of them are our most senior players and still do not stamp their authority in our team with in their approach to the game. Others are unique in that their careers wouldn't have possibly lasted this long had they been at other clubs. Some of them are conditioned. Too used to losing. So much so that it's inevitable that they'll drop their heads as soon as the opposition get on top during a game. Resulting in selfish play for fear of making mistakes. Too used to going throwing in the towel. We've offloaded a whole host who had shown the same symptoms over the past couple of years and I have no doubt we'll see many on this list either traded or delisted. In my honest assessment of our list, I think there are still players on our list who are expendable and there are two areas that we need to address at the end of this season. Area 1: Kicking skills out of defence. I think we are in desperate need for one more backman who can split teams apart with their kicking skills. We've struggled for years with our transitional play from the backline to the forwardline and whilst some may argue there are a few contributing factors, I believe the skill level has been the major concern there. Garland and Howe are expendable. When I watch Garland play, he plays without a sense of purpose and without a sense of assuredness. His kicking is questionable. His form is and has been questionable for too long and therefore his position in the side will be questionable if he remains an irrelevant piece of the puzzle which so far, he is. As a senior player we should expect more. And he is one of many over the years who is yet to consistently get better with age. One great year in the middle of a bunch of 'meh' years and some bad ones. You cannot improve as a side if your senior players have such fluctuations in their form and we've have had far too many of them. Howe is similar in that he hasn't risen to any great heights and hasn't produced on a consistent basis although he has played less games and is younger than Garland. However, he holds more currency as he's out of contract this year and I'm sure sides will make a play for him. We need to go hard at someone like McKenzie at the end of the year. We need a mature body who is a decent one-on-one player but who has exceptional foot-skills. A side must have at least two elite kickers in their back six. Sides need a strong mix of attributes from their back six but kicking skills are unquestionably important. Salem and (insert player) - Foot Skills McDonald and Lumumba - Run and carry Jetta and Dunn - Lock-down defenders Frost - Versatility Unltimately, you'd love to be able to draft players who possess a number of 'elite' attributes. Hawthorn have managed to do it, which is why they are far superior to most sides. Area 2 : A Ruckman Obvious to most, whilst Jamar battles admirably hard in the ruck he offers little around the ground. He's most definitely not as fit as you need to be as a modern day ruckman, especially one who's playing pretty much without support. His skills have always been questionable as well as his decision making and he is another senior player on the long list of NQR's. Form fluctuations, one AA year and plenty of average ones. Again, hasn't done the MFC a whole lot of good. On an even more worrying note we have backup ruckmen in Spencer and Fitzpatrick (who is now playing as a FB in the VFL side which surely says something about the way he Rucks). Spencer as we know competes hard but I have literally seen him do nothing at AFL level that would make me think he'll ever get picked unless all of the above get injured. And then of course there's Gawn. A bloke who without a doubt could be an extremely valuable player. Has size, has good aggression, can take a contested mark and can kick a goal but another who for whatever reason, doesn't quite get what it takes to cut the grade. To me his personality exemplifies the way he plays footy. It's all just a bit of a kick in the park. Happy to be on an AFL list, happy to be the funny guy around the club. Another who perhaps has been affected by the culture that was around upon his arrival. No fierce drive or desire to be the best he can be. Personalities of this nature standout like a sore thumb if drafted into a 'kick in the park' club-like environment which ours has been.. So, without question we'll be going after someone. Leuenberger, Bellchambers and Kreuzer are all players who providing fit, would easily get the gig if at our club. They're all free agents and I'm sure we'll have a crack at one. Lastly, further midfield support: There's no doubting we've been gifted with some genuinely exciting young midfielders. But gosh darn do we need to develop and nurture them the right way. Viney Tyson Brayshaw Petracca JKH Vandenberg and to a lesser extent: Newton Michie Stretch ANB Toumpas There's no doubt we still need more support added. Cross has been a great addition as a standard setter for our younger players but he may not be kicking around next year. Which leaves Jones, Vince and Lumumba - (when playing through the middle) - as our experience which is clearly not enough. We've got to go hard for a genuine A grade gun mid should be... Names have already been thrown around so I'll leave that to posters. I'd also be into going for a second-tier mid/Selwood type player. Someone who will be an upgrade on some of NQR's, provide plenty of run and will be another breath of fresh air to a semi stale list. Obviously we are early in the season, but if we address those areas and we continue to build and develop our younger players coming through and continue to build a really professional environment, next year could be the year we jump the blocks. We'll have ridded pretty much all of the virus and with personalities like Viney, Hogan, Brayshaw and co under the tutelage of the quality coaches we have, 2016 could be the year we finally take off. Dees.

different area of the club entirely.. You do not need Corporate sponsorship to identify a players attitude to hard work PJ is doing a mighty job starting at Ground Zero that is not in question

Brayshaw is far more impressive than degoey imo

There's not much a backline can do when their midfield gives up 59 Inside 50s (20 more than us) and 416 possessions (113 more than us). I get what you are saying; we are not a very developed list but the backline of late has been a comparative beacon. I would love to be in a position where we pick apart the backline but Sauron's eye is fixed on our midfield...

SWYL - you dismiss the journalists and their drafts - but the top journo's do watch and do talk to talent scouts and recruiters - they are basing the rankings on what they have seen and what they have heard. I actually think that these journo's are pretty well spot in predicting the ORDER in which the players will be drafted. What they are not good at is getting the output of each player in the draft during their career. Every draft order since inception would look completely different in retrospect given the exposed form we now have. I did get to a point where I think we should dismiss the "rankings" which seem to become formalised close to draft time and go with exactly who we think is the best option. If you draw a line through the drafts and look at picks taken where they were thought to be ranked - sooo many are just wrong ( in our case - Watts, Toumpas, Scully, Trengove..etc) If you draw a line through the drafts and look at the picks that were taken early than their ranking - soooo many are just wrong ( in our case - Cook, Strauss, Gysberts etc) I have reconciled myself that the draft is a turkey shoot and some will work out and some won't.

Garland, Dunn and Howe are three of our most consistent players. Our problem in the future is that the midfield lacks size, pace and skill. NB: Why the obsession with Garland? He had a bad 2014 after ankle surgery and has been in pretty good form this year.

In answer to your question about him playing a vote winning game in the grand final - I hope Jimmy comes good - my head is telling me he is a bust - I hope he proves me wrong. I have never argued that on what I am seeing now that Toumpas will get close to the dizzying heights of Wines. I am arguing about what we knew at draft time. Here is one more quote for you "Now Mark Neeld has some tough cattle. Lets go.." That was posted in the welcome to Jimmy Toumpas thread the day he was drafted by ummm....hmmm.. you ! There has been questions aplenty about Jimmy's ferocity and attack on the ball - however on draft day you put Jimmy into the tough cattle class....

I can't see how you can comment so dogmatically on The attitude of Toumpas. Only those close to him could comment on that. From what I've seen he comes across as committed and quite intense - from a distance confidence may be the main issue.

I think the issue is more the "wobbling" of the brain rather than the actual impact, this is why a helmet may not help as you would still get the wobble if you know what I mean

I knew Toumpas was the wrong pick from his first interview and said so at the time. He's a total mummy's boy. Unbelievable error by the club but there is zero point going on about it now. Brayshaw, Salem, Hogan, Tyson, Viney, are all players we can build a club around. We need 3 more A grade mids, Petracca might be one of them, a ruckman and possibly one more key back. From there we really should see improvement. That's not too much more. We're not miles off top 4, but who k owe what happens from there Now stop worrying about Toumpas he'll be gone soon enough

Chris Grant was pick 105 Captain hindsight required - please explain

Why are you comparing Gartlett to Bennell? Bennell is twice the player Garlett is. Hes a gun midfielder. He is averaging 24.6 disposals, more than any Demon, and hes supposedly had a slow start to the season. He has a career average of 21.8 disposals. He kicks goals. he kicked 23 last season which would place him first at Melbourne. Im blown way that people say they aren't interested in him. He would be arguably our best player alongside Jones and T Mac.

If you were able to ask whatever you like, I am not sure what your expectation is asking the specific question at the AGM ( or at any other time ) surrounding Wines and Toumpas or for that matter any recruiting decisions. The answers for each recruiting case would be one of two. 1. We picked we was considered the best available player at the time of the draft ( this would account for most of our recruiting decisions) 2. We picked this player with a pick that may have been considered a little higher than expected but he fitted our need and we believed that they would develop into good footballers. ( Cook, Strauss etc) I'll even go further and for entertainment let you have a follow up question. "But Wines was a better choice than Toumpas" And Viney's answer would be "That is your opinion and at the time of the draft it was opinion that was not shared by myself, my recruiting team and most others." Would that satisfy you ? (because frankly, I can't see you getting any other answers but these).

You watched a different game to me.

Bail had a good season last year and is kick 2-3 goals a game and getting 25ish possesions in casey. Better player than grimes. I'd have no dramas with him in the team!

For mine and it's been touched on by others also, and mentioned by myself previously but as bears repeating I think the holistic position is ; does WADA have any option to not (appeal) if it is to continue its stance regarding drugs, supplements and dubious methodologies ? If it doesn't it effectively pulls the carpet from under itself. All the whiles til now it's had to play to others agendas and timelines. Now it plays to its own. WADA will be conversant with when and how to appeal and it will. The Essendon propaganda machine will carry on for the whiles, we'll get interlopers like Sanitry Pad, there will be others whose cart is more laden with mischief than reason and this thread will bumble along until the inevitable. A guilty verdict and associated penalties. For just as foreseeable was the AFLs virtual exoneration by crafty manipulation will be a proper hearing on neutral ground. What's at stake really is the relevance of fair competition and a body to oversee it. WADA is duty bound not only by its own code to appeal but by its very credo. Put more simply, bears do.

I'd like us to focus on Dylan Shiel, Rory Sloane and James Aish. And a decent ruckman.

Please No. This is becoming tragic. And I don't mean Jack Watts

I bag Watts alot. But this is a very stupid thread. We all know the truth. No need to start a new thread but.. Fmd

Time is running out for him I feel. Even his most staunch supporters, such as myself, grow weary of his lack of development or inspiring performances every 6-10 games which invoke feelings of hope that he may just turn into some sort of good player. Sadly the clock now ticks for Jack.

I can't stand how the system allows this to happen. May's punishment is for a bad attempt at a legal, football move (i.e. the bump). Hodge's punishment is for a dog act that has nothing to do with football whatsoever (i.e. a punch). The AFL's problem is that wants to take a stance on concussion but won't take a similarly hard stance on brutality. If May was worth 3 weeks, Hodge was worth 6. The two cannot be the same.

G'day Ash. You're right about the passionate nature of the topic and so it should be given that our involvement is based so much on our passion for the sport. But it's not this sport alone, it's sport the world over and that's what makes it such a passionate subject for me. About 25 years ago I turned up to take part in a 10k fun run and I met Raelene Boyle who was one of the celebrity participants. I ran with her for some of the way and ended up beating her home (not sure if she even finished) which means I can say that I beat an Olympic silver medallist and a true Australian sporting heroine. The problem with that is I should also be saying that I beat an Olympic champion which I can't say because of drug cheats. Renate Stecher who beat Boyle in two Olympic finals was a drug cheat. This was proved years after the 1972 Olympic Games when she was found to have taken part in a state-sponsored drug programme, not dissimilar to the pharmacologically-controlled goings on at Essendon. I don't have the benefit of having heard or read the evidence presented in full or the reasoning of the Tribunal but, based on that which has been revealed, I find the decision and the reasoning behind it unsatisfactory on several levels. That's why I not only want WADA to appeal but believe that it will do so because it must in order to protect the integrity of its code. However, I can assure you that it won't affect my state of mind if they don't appeal - it won't be the end of the world for me because, in my profession I've seen enough instances of bad decisions in courts or tribunals deserving of being appealed against but for one reason or another, the decision was made not to take that course.

Every week i wonder to myself why they are not held accountable for their terrible decisions. Why would they even care if they screw up, nothing will happen to them anyway.

Dropping Watts is not the answer. His problem is confidence. Roos is showing belief in him and pushing him to regain confidence in the seniors. Dropping him will kill what little self belief he has after becoming the worst handled high pick in AFL history. He is one player that the club owes more to than he does to the club

That idiot Barrett will now break an "exclusive" story on the footy show that Watts will retire at the end of the season.

Georgiou to Buddy again

I know a number of you have expressed, both here and privately by email to me, doubts about my contention that WADA will get Essendon and Hird in the end. I thought it might be useful if I set out a bit more of what I know and why I am confident of an eventual fair outcome now that we are at the point of decision by WADA to refer the Essendon case to CAS. First, lets explore what WADA attitude might be in the Essendon case. The unofficial spokesperson for WADA in Australia (and a member of its inner circle) is its former global President, and ex NSW Premier John Fahey. After the AFL Tribunal decision was handed down, he had this to say in an interview in The Age in Melbourne. Former WADA boss says Essendon should not feel exonerated by drug ruling Date March 31, 2015 The Age by Samantha Lane Sports Writer Former WADA president John Fahey says Essendon should not feel exonerated by the ASADA ruling. If Essendon feels exonerated by a favourable ruling for its players, it should re-read the scathing assessment published about its experimental 2012 regimen, according to former World Anti-Doping Authority president John Fahey. As Australian Sports Anti-Doping Authority boss Ben McDevitt lambasted Essendon's injection program as "absolutely and utterly disgraceful" on Tuesday despite an anti-doping tribunal ruling that did not find banned drug use Fahey's criticism of the AFL club was that the protracted saga could have been handled much better. "Essendon's behaviour though this was almost un-Australian," Fahey, who was WADA chief from 2007 to 2013, said. "To effectively shoot the messenger, and prevent a proper examination of what everybody knows occurred and everybody knows that what occurred was, to say the least, strange if not a breach of anti-doping rules. "It is still extraordinarily strange that players could be given thousands of needles, off site. "Every attempt was made to prevent an independent tribunal examining all the facts. That has cost literally millions of dollars and put the future sporting careers of many young footballers in jeopardy. It should have been dealt with long ago, and that is the tragedy of the whole case that it wasn't allowed to proceed in a reasonable time to a proper conclusion. "I can understand the players' relief. From the club's point of view, if they feel jubilant today then my advice is that they should re-read Ziggy Switkowski's report and then examine their own behaviour in this whole process. It has left a lot to be desired." Soon after ASADA launched a joint investigation with the AFL into Essendon, in February 2013, then-Bomber chairman David Evans commissioned former Telstra boss Switkowski to review the club's supplements program. The most infamous line from the damning report was Switkowski's finding of "a disturbing picture of a pharmacologically experimental environment never adequately controlled or challenged or documented within the club". Fahey has been consistently scathing of the move last year by Essendon, and its coach James Hird, to take their grievances with elements of the process to the Federal Court. "Clearly the case was taken to prevent the [AFL anti-doping tribunal] inquiry occurring, They sought injunctions to prevent any information gathered by ASADA being used for purposes of examining anti-doping rule violations. They sought injunctions through the Federal Court and then Hird appealed the original decision. "There were four judges that had to look at it in a proper court of law before the inquiry could proceed to conduct the examination of evidence, which it has done in the last couple of months." Fahey was unprepared to forecast whether ASADA or the world authority on sports anti-doping would appeal Tuesday's decision. "They [WADA] look at all decisions ... and they'll satisfy themselves one way or the other relating to the proper application of the (WADA) code" I dont think Fahey could have been any more specific about WADAs intentions here, without actually saying the world body is about to act. With the announcement yesterday that Ben McDevitt, boss of ASADA, is in Montreal now, a week or so before the announcement whether WADA will appeal the AFL Tribunal decision, this situation is clearly coming to a head. There now seems a high likelihood the appeal will be launched in the near future, at least that is what my contacts are telling me, although in all honesty no-one, except the inner circle, actually knows as yet. The institution itself though seems in no doubt an appeal will be launched is my information, and in all likelihood McDevitt is in Montreal on a range of sports doping matters, amongst which is planning for the Essendon appeal. ASADA boss Ben McDevitt to meet with WADA bosses in Montreal Lets assume there is a case launched appealing the AFL Tribunal ruling. Where to from here? Lets first explore what CAS is. On CASs website, the following information is given about appeals to CAS which I think clarifies a lot of questions on here over the last 12 months or so: What is the Court of Arbitration for Sport? The Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS) is an institution independent of any sports organization which provides for servic­es in order to facilitate the settlement of sports-related disputes through arbitration or mediation by means of procedural rules adapted to the­ specific needs of the sports world. The CAS was created in 1984 and is placed under the administrative and financial authority of the International Council of Arbitration for Sport (ICAS). The CAS has nearly 300 arbitrators from 87 countries, chosen for their specialist knowledge of arbitration and sports law. Around 300 cases are registered by the CAS every year. What is the function of the CAS? The CAS has the task of resolving legal disputes in the field of sport through arbitration. It does this pronouncing arbitral awards that have the same enforceability as judgements of ordinary ­courts. What kinds of dispute can be submitted to the CAS? Any disputes directly or indirectly linked to sport may be submitted to the CAS. These may be disputes of a commercial nature (e.g. a sponsorship contract), or of a disciplinary nature following a decision by a sports organisation (e.g. a doping case). Who can refer a case to the CAS? Any individual or legal entity with capacity to act may have recourse to the services of the CAS. These include athletes, clubs, sports federations, organisers of sports events, sponsors or television companies. What are the CAS procedures? For disputes resulting from decisions taken by the internal bodies of sports organisations, the appeals arbitration procedure is applicable. How does one set the arbitration in motion? The party wishing to submit a dispute to the CAS must send the CAS Court Office a request for arbitration (ordinary procedure) or a statement of appeal (appeals procedure), the contents of which are specified by the Code of Sports-related Arbitration. In the case of the appeals procedure, a party may lodge an appeal only if it has exhausted all the internal remedies of the sports organisation concerned.­ How are the arbitrators chosen? Generally speaking, the arbitration is submitted to a panel of three arbitrators. Under the appeals procedure, each party chooses an arbitrator, and the president of the panel is selected by the President of the Appeals Arbitration Division. If the parties agree, or if the CAS deems this appropriate, a sole arbitrator may be appointed, depending on the nature and importance of the case. The arbitrators must be independent, that is to say have no particular connection with any of the parties, and must not have played any role in the case in question.­ How does CAS arbitration procedure work? Once the arbitration request or statement of appeal is filed, the respondent submits a reply to the CAS. After any additional exchange of statements of case, the parties are summoned to a hearing to be heard, produce evidence and argue their case. The final award is communicated to the parties some weeks later, unless it is pronounced the same day (under the appeals procedure).­ How long does CAS arbitration last? For the appeals procedure, an award must be pronounced within three months after the transfer of the file to the Panel. In urgent cases and upon request, the CAS may, within a very short time, order interim measures or suspend the execution of a decision appealed against.­ What is the scope of an award pronounced by the CAS? An award pronounced by the CAS is final and binding on the parties from the moment it is communicated. It may in particular be enforced in accordance with the New York Convention on the recognition and enforcement of arbitral awards, which more than 125 countries have signed.­ Is it possible to appeal against a CAS award? Judicial recourse to the Swiss Federal Tribunal is allowed on a very limited number of grounds, such as lack of jurisdiction, violation of elementary procedural rules (e.g. violation of the right to a fair hearing) or incompatibility with public policy.­­­ CAS has their courts in the world in Switzerland, New York and Sydney perhaps putting paid to those of you who do not believe Australia is a superpower not only in sports but also Sport Governance. The President of the Board of CAS is also Australian, John Coates (vice President of the IOC, and President of the AOC). For those of you who have doubts about the attitude of CAS to doping cases, let me quote none other than John Coates himself from this Age report in 2013 Australian Olympic Committee chief John Coates has expressed some sympathy for ASADA as the anti-doping body comes under fire from the AFL players for its laborious investigation into the 2012 Essendon drugs program. Australia's most senior Olympic official reinforced his view that all athletes remained responsible for the substances they ingested whether or not they intended to cheat. "I can understand this view from the big team sports and from what we've seen from Cronulla and Essendon that the clubs needed to show a greater duty of care to their athletes," Coates told Fairfax Media. "But these are professional athletes and they are responsible for what they ingest. They have got enough advice. They make the decision ultimately to take the substance. "At the 2000 Sydney Games, we had a 16-year-old gymnast Andreea Raducan, who took a tablet from her team doctor for a cold and tested positive. She was stripped of her gold medal. Everyone should be well aware of the rules." Coates said another lesson from the AFL and NRL scandals was that the club's and support staff involved had not taken enough responsibility for those scandals. "The clubs should and the coaches and the doctors should accept a greater responsibility for what they allowed to take place," he said. "The new rules to soon be enforced will help change that. The sports here might be saying they will no longer deal with Stephen Dank, but from January 1 the situation will be more definitive." This to me seems to set the bar pretty high for CAS in terms of personal responsibility by athletes as to what they take and what they dont take. It certainly leaves no doubt as to what CAS views as permissible behaviour to do with Essendon and James Hird. The question though remains one of proof, with CAS settling on a "balance of probabilities" rather than the AFL Tribunal approach of "comfortable satisfaction". I have examined the last 20 cases before CAS and all except Australian cases have been arbitrated by non nationals. There are three Australian cases in that Group and all have been Arbitrated by Australian Arbiters, two of which were by a single Arbiter, although in view of the importance of this case, and its high profile, I am advised a single Arbiter is unlikely in this case. So who are these people? The Hon. Justice Annabelle Claire Bennett (1950) Judge (Australia) Eng Sydney / Australia PhD (biochemistry - based). Judge of the Federal Court of Australia. Additional Judge of the Supreme Court of the ACT. Presidential Member of the Administrative Appeals Tribunal. Pro-Chancellor of the Australian National University. President of the Australian Academy of Forensic Sciences (2003-2005). Mr David Harold Bloom (1948) Barrister (Australia) Fr/Eng Sydney / Australia LL.B; LL.M, Sydney; practicing barrister; admitted to the bars of NSW, Victoria, the ACT, Queensland, Western Australia and of New York State. Mr John Francis Boultbee (1950) Lawyer (Australia) Fr/Eng/Deu Sydney / Australia LL.M. Master of laws, London University; Barrister; Director of the Australian Institute of Sport; former Secretary General of the International Rowing Federation (FISA). Former Head of National Teams, Football Federation Australia. Former Director of the Australian Institute of Sport. Mr Bruce W. Collins (1948) Queens Counsel (Australia) Eng Sydney / Australia Q.C.; Practising Member New South Wales Bar Association Professional Conduct Committee. Australian Olympic Appeals Consultant. New South Wales Bar Association Advisor to the Faculty of Law, University of Wollongong. Chairman New South Wales Rugby League Appeals Committee 1995-1996. Chairman Sydney Cricket Association 2001-2007; Australian Olympic Appeals Consultant Summer 2008 and Winter Olympics 2010. Mr Brian William Collis (1943) Chairman Australian Footbal League Tribunal (Australia) Eng Melbourne / Australia Queens Counsel. Vice Chairman - Australian Football League Appeal Board. Chairman - Harness Racing Victoria Racing Appeals and Disciplinary Tribunal. The Hon. Jerrold Cripps (1933) Barrister (Australia) Eng Sydney / Australia Queens Counsel; Chairman Australian Commercial Dispute Centre; Chairperson National Electricity Tribunal; member of the Independent Pricing Regulatory Tribunal (NSW) Panel of arbitrators; Chief Counsel, Allen Allen & Hemsley, lawyers, Australia; former judge of the NSW Court of Appeal. The Hon. Robert J. Ellicott (1927) Barrister (Australia) Eng Sydney / Australia Barrister B.A.; LLB; Australian Solicitor General and Attorney General; former Judge at the Federal Court; member of the International Amateur Athletic Federation (IAAF) Panel of arbitrators. Member of the CAS ad hoc Divisions at the Commonwealth Games, Kuala Lumpur, 1998, and at the Summer Olympic Games, Sydney, 2000 and at the Winter Olympic Games, Salt Lake City, 2002. Justice Arthur Emmett (1943) Judge (Australia) Eng Sydney / Australia Doctor of Laws. Queens Counsel. Judge of the Federal Court of Australia. President, Copyright Tribunal of Australia. Commissioner, Australian Law Reform Commission. Lecturer, University of Sydney Law School. Conduct Commissioner, NSW Cricket Association, 1990 to 2007. Mr Noah David Grace (1953) Barrister and Solicitor (Australia) Eng Melbourne / Australia Master of laws; Queens Counsel; Barrister; Co-Chair Criminal Law Committee Law Council of Australia; Member Court of Honour, and formerly Vice-President, Maccabi World Union. Director Athletics Australia; Team Advocate Australian Olympic Team Athens 2004; Member CAS ad hoc Divisions Commonwealth Games Melbourne 2006 and Winter Olympic Games Vancouver 2010. President Athletics Australia. Mr Malcolm Holmes (1948) Barrister (Australia) Eng Sydney / Australia B.A., LLB Sydney University, BCL, Oxford University; appointed as the athletes advocate to the Australian Olympic Team at Atlanta in 1996. Member of the CAS ad hoc Division at the Summer Olympic Games, Athens 2004 and at the Winter Olympic Games, Turin 2006. Mr David Ipp (1938) Judge (Australia) Eng Sydney / Australia Judge of the Supreme Court of Western Australia; Commissioner of Independent Commission Against Corruption (ICAC); former barrister, solicitor in Australia and in South Africa. Mr Mark Mangan (1974) Attorney-at-law (Australia) Eng London / United Kingdom Solicitor, England and Wales. Solicitor, Australia. Partner, Dechert LLP Singapore. Formerly senior associate, Freshfields Bruckhaus Deringer LLP. Acting as counsel and arbitrator in international arbitration. In-house counsel for the International Cricket Council. Judge Henric Nicholas (1941) Judge (Australia) Eng Sydney / Australia Judge of the Supreme Court of New South Wales since Feb. 2003. Barrister-at-law 1966 - 2003, appointed Queens Counsel in Oct. 1981. Mr Hayden Opie (1953) Solicitor, Senior Lecturer/Director of Studies (Australia) Eng Melbourne / Australia His Honour Judge Rauf Soulio (1957) Judge (Australia) Eng Adelaide / Australia Judge; Supreme Court of South Australia 1981; High Court of Australia 1984; Roll of Solicitors, England and Wales 1990. Judge - District Court of South Australia (appointed 2006) - administrative, civil, commercial and criminal jurisdictions. Judge - Equal Opportunity Tribunal. Judge - Licensing Court of South Australia. 1981-1988 Solicitor. 1988-2006 Barrister. 2009-present President - Football Federation of South Australia. The Hon. James Spigelman (1946) Retired Judge (Australia) Eng Sydney / Australia Arbitrator. Barrister, Australia 1980-1998, QC 1986-1998. Chief Justice, Supreme Court of New South Wales 1998-2011. Mr Alan John Sullivan (1951) Lawyer (Australia) Eng Sydney / Australia Queens Counsel; Barrister; former Chairman, Australian Rugby League Judiciary Panel; Commissioner, Code of Behaviour, Australian Cricket Board. Mr Neil John Young (1952) Barrister-at-law (Australia) Eng Melbourne / Australia LL.M.; Queens Counsel; Barrister; past President, Australian Bar Association; former Chairman Victoria Bar. I have looked at last four or five CAS cases in Australia, and it seems that most are presided over by an Australian Arbiter (perhaps tyranny of distance, I dont know), whereas the last ten non Australian cases, there were no arbiters of the same nationality as the appellants.The list above is understandably dominated by the legal profession, but if they follow the CAS guidelines, no one can be chosen as an Arbiter if they have previously had anything to do with the case. This would seem to rule out Gordon Collis for instance, now Vice President of the AFL Appeals Tribunal, David Grace who has acted for both James Hird and the players association, John Boultbee, formerly 2IC at the FFA, and Alan Sullivan, the former chairman of the NRL Judiciary Panel. The remainder, are heavily connected to Olympic sports (where most disputes of this sort arise), so it could be expected their attitudes will be heavily influenced by the attitudes of those sports which as we all know generally feel aggrieved that wealthy Australian football codes seem to be getting a free ride when it comes to drugs in sport. So what does WADA now do? Do they pursue the Essendon players (and/or Dank), believing there is sufficient evidence that the Tribunal got it wrong. By passing to WADA now, as McDevitt has done, the World body can take the matter directly to the Court of Arbitration for Sport with the appeal almost certainly to be held in Sydney. Most anti-doping cases are based on positive A and B samples, which if correctly tested are almost incontrovertible evidence of a violation. With a test for Thymosin Beta-4 said to be less than 12 months away, and all 34 Essendon footballers having had their A and B blood samples safely stored away by ASADA, ASADA have recently stated publicly that they will re-test these samples once a test becomes available. The trouble with ASADAs case right now is that it draws on the more general provision in the AFL Anti-Doping Code (identical to the relevant section of the WADA World Anti-Doping Code) prohibiting Use or Attempted Use. For the AFL Tribunal, ASADA needed to prove the violation to the comfortable satisfaction of the Tribunal this is unhelpfully said to be a greater standard of proof than a balance of probability (>50% chance), but less than proof beyond reasonable doubt (the criminal standard of guilt). Quite possibly, Essendons administrative and governance failings have thus far saved them, although there are provisions in the WADA code if the accused party is interpreted as indulging in criminal behavior. It is a moot point whether destruction of evidence is criminal in this case, and that also needs to be proven. The lesser standard of proof about balance of probabilities may help WADA\ASADA in this case. There was no audit trail of what was administered as part of the injections program, when, or to whom. This is why Essendon fought so hard to throw out evidence based on witness statements given to the AFL with ASADA in the room, but this same evidence may well be sufficient to convict under CAS provisions. All now hinges on WADAs reading of the brief of evidence. But given the focus on personal responsibility, as expressed by John Fahey, and John Coates, and the lack of steps taken by Essendon players to question what was happening, and the lesser standard of proof required by CAS than the interpretation settled on by the AFL Tribunal, it is hard to see the Essendon players, and indeed the administration and coaches, getting off. Once CAS pronounces on the players, then the coaches and administration will follow if what happens in cycling is any guide.

I wouldn't miss one centre bounce to watch a couple of overpaid primates slap gloves