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Whoever suggested it was going to be a light session, got it horribly wrong. It wasn't the hardest I have been to but it was no fun run either. I spotted Trenners in his new shoe attire, also on crutches. The bright side, is it will help build his upper body walking around with the aid of crutches. Today's session consisted of a few warm up laps,then some ball movement broken into two groups and firing handballs towards a running player. It was done in a way that they would do the drill in a clockwise movement, fire handballs as quickly as possible,with the player that gave the handball, putting light pressure on the receiver before he gave it off. It was fast and sharp with not many fumbles. Another session was concentrating on a match sim, the backs clearing from the backline to a leading player, or if that option wasnt on, then he should divert it ,to across the ground to the opposite halfback flank, then they player would look upfield to pass to another on the half forward flank, who in turn would take a bounce,and pass to a leading foward. This drill was a practice moving the ball, quickly and accurately from the backline to a the forwards. Again the skills were good, but with no pressure, I would expect it to go well. The last session I got to see before leaving early, was they had the players in 3 groups. One group practising defensive skills, like a high ball coming in the punching the ball towards the boundrary. Another group were the mids, they were running through a drill,from a tapout to firing a handball to a 'running' player. (Note: Not to someone standing flat footed as we have witnessed in the past) then that player would handball 20 mtrs to 2 players players heading towards the goals. Looked good under no pressure. if they get that drilled into them often enough we might see some decent centre clearances. The 3rd group were doing a drill where the ball was thrown up by one of the coaches, 2 players contesting, then tapped down to be scouted by a running small and then have a running shot on goal. If all the above was considered a light run, in the Bailey are, it would have been a hard hitout. Overall a good session,and concentrated mostly on ball movement from one end to the other. Most had some decent colour, looked to me they had been sunning their time away elsewhere in the country. Blease must have been locked up inside all day, still looked pale: sunscreen factor 50+ for young Sam. The latest rumour ... I shouldn't spread rumours, right? Apparently, they had to put down a croc after it broke all of its teeth,trying to latch onto J.Viney. Urban myth? In closing, I had a quick chat to the coach, he still thinks we have a way to go before he considers them to be at a level fitness-wise where he thinks they should be. More games etc. but was very happy with everyone's progress thus far. Just even up the ledger. No 12 wasnt holding back, he looked fit and was involved and doing well. I thought I'd throw that in, as the last time I watched he wasn't doing a lot. To make a proper assessment I want to see how they stand up against some opposition. Will it all fall apart or are we going to take what we practice into a real game? They have made some big inroads into me being confident next year, but I've been down this path before. But I like what I am seeing. Everyone have a safe and wonderful Xmas and New Year.

They had a 22 week break this season.

I got there at 3pm and they were already well underway. Joining the main group were Sylvia, Evans, Kent, Turlich, Clisby and Stark. I didn't see Matt Jones, Hogan or Trengove (obviously). The rehab group was Grimes, Dunn, Dawes, Gawn and Clark and they were running on one of the other ovals. Watts was just doing some gentle jogging but not for long. He disappeared inside soon after. Taggert was also doing laps Clark came back half way through and also went inside. Training was sharp and as hard as usual, not the "light" session as mentioned although it was all finished by 4.30. They did the usual drills. Davey surprised me, he was quick on the lead and took one grab marks above his head 5-6 times in a row, but like all of the forwards his shots for goal were fairly poor. Byrnes was particularly poor kicking 1 out of the 5-6 shots I saw him take. Fizpatrick was again prominent in the 300m sprints, clearly the fastest of the big guys. Sylvia was lagging at the back with Crouch. Jetta and Davey stuggled on the repetative sprints also Gillies and Macdonald in their sprints. Barry did very well in all of what I saw him do and Pedersen likewise. Tynan looked good, moved well and kicked well as did Strauss and Evans, Toumpas moves well but he's not as big as his photos suggest, at least next to his team mates he looks light. Stark and Clisby did laps after the first few drills but are quite light framed as you would expect. Terlich moved and kicked well and with good pace as did Tapscott. All the usual seniors did well, Jones, Frawley, Garland but I was really concentrating on the 'fringe' guys. I don't take notes so this is what I remember.

Front running game style not suited to finals. It doesn't matter what your winning percentage is in H and A if you are playing an antiquated game style with weak bodies which is easily countered. We failed MISERABLY against the better drilled opponents and when put under any physical pressure. And yes we failed miserably in 2012 as well. We shall see what 2013 brings. I agree that we need to see some results, I expect that we will. For me it will be as much about the vibe as the win/loss ratio. Ie the ability to play four quarters, the upward incline of our key young blokes, the evenness of the team performance and the ability to compete against the top teams. The emergence of a star or two especially in the midfield would be handy too.

Fond childhood memories of Tony Charlton as host of the then Channel 9 Sunday Sports show. Like Mum's Sunday roast, it was not to be missed. Rest in Peace Tony. A true gentleman and remarkable commentator, in the days when unscripted and impromptu delivery was a necessity.

Tony Charlton, the Media commentator Norm Smith chose to speak to in 1965 after he was sacked has died this Morning. A voice that i and many others grew up with.. "I am Mebourne Tony...I am Melbourne... Rest in Peace Mr Charlton.

I should have joined them

This is somewhat a continuation Srjennings "2013 realistic expectation" thread. I have been sitting on these thoughts for a few weeks and I think we can break it up into a few key questions: (Bump the thread and please PM me if you want to incorperate others into the first post). 1. What are your realistic expectations for Viney and Toumpas, or even Hogan in the VFL? Keep in mind it's their first year. 2. Who do you think will take it to another level? 3. New mature aged recruits, who needs to prove their worth? 4. Last chance, who has flown under the radar for far too long? 5. Combination (as discussed previously) where should all this lead us on the ladder, who the the key clubs we should be beat in order to climb the ladder? MY ANSWERS: 1. Over the last decade and a bit we have always seen huge amounts of media hype linked to the high end draft picks and gun father-son selections. We often see links to the games current stars like Judd, Ablett, Cotchin etc. Although as history shows time and time again their first seasons are usually quite short of spectacular (AFL top end star) but nothing more than the odd signs of stardom. So in regards to Viney or Toumpas I will be very pleased if they average/ game ~ 20 disposals and ~ 3 tackles. I hope to see Toumpas run and carry whilst burning off his opposition, and Viney obtain some of those incredibly hard gets. Anything above those stats and signs I will be over the moon. AS for Hogan I just hope he can take enough marks, split packs whilst with the big lads and kicks straight. 2. I think it's time Trengove takes it to another level. So far I'm pleased with his progress unlike many others but I hope he follows in the footsteps of Nathan Jones's 2012 season. I think his start to the season will be slow due to his injury interrupted pre-season although I hope he gets up to ~ 24-25 disposal mark for at least the second half. As for Jones I hope he steps it up another notch again. Furthermore I would love to see Grimes spend more time in the mid, and not have to go back as much on the basis the backs are holding up and don't need him. I also look forward to seeing Clark again, hopefully he can get a full season out of 2013 and maintain that excellent for we saw for the first part of 2012. 3. One key name comes to mind here and that is Chris Dawes. At first I was completely against getting him in but as time persists I'm seeing the positives of the recruitment. With that said he's on a pretty penny. It's been stated he'll be a permanent full forward I expect ~ 45 goals form him (far beyond his 32 career best). Now I think this is a reasonable ask, it's ~ 2 goals a game if he gets a full injury free season, and that the midfield can deliver. I'll leave D-Rod, Byrnes, and Gillies for you guys to start 4. Two people come to mind here and that's Sylvia and Davey. As we know Sylvia is highly talented but does not apply it on a consistent basis. The training and frame work is in place, the expectations from Neeld and co. are there, the Party Boy mob is split (Moloney gone, Russian tied the knot)and he is now one of the more mature team members. It's time he pulls his finger out and show why is was a No.3 draft pick. (With all that said he is still one of my favorite players). 5. Summary: If things fall into place and we stay relatively injury free, I hope to see Sylvia and Grimes spend most of their season through the mid. I hope to see the big forwards hold up well (Clark & Dawes) with the likes of Byrnes, Blease, Howe and Pedersen within a close proximity. If two of the new mature recruits explode like Mitch Clark last year I will be STOKED. So where do we finish, as long as we beat GWS, GC, WB, BL, PORT, ESS and St.K (on their way down), and give RICH, NM, FRE a run for their money I'll be very happy. CHEERS! ESSAY WRITE AWAY ignition.

Yes we are looking great but so are the other clubs. It's like the racing story where the jockey says I saw the gap and went for it, except the gap was going faster than I was. Until we see the boys in matches, it is really hard to get a handle on where we are at.

Thanks for all the detail Deevoted. A bit of a wake up call to hear that they still have a way to go before they are at the level of fitness Neeld expects. Just shows you how far they've got to go from what he inherited. I spoke to Neil Craig at the Sydney function during the season and he said he thought they'd be competitive from about mid 2014 onwards. Sounds like Neeld's and Craig's expectations for 2013 even with all these great Darwin camps etc are not too optimistic. They seem to have a real strong handle on what the benchmarks are for the top competitive teams and where our group is in relation to them. I'd rather get that reality check now than get unrealistic expectations for next year based on all these great training notes. My 14yr old son told me to have a look at some of the other club's sites to see what training they are doing. Funnily enough all of them are saying exactly the same things i. e came back in best pre season shape ever. Are all setting PB's right off. Everything we've been hearing. At least we've got Misson and Craig so we can feel confident that they know when they set a benchmark for training that it is an accurate one.

Yeah CBF , many of us have varying degrees of pain . For those of us who just missed the glory years it's been especially painful . The Python blokes kinda sum it up best ...

Old dee , I reckon our improvement will rest with how much of our list are prepared to 'buy in' or get on the 'same page' as our coach . There is enough talent there to win 10+ games . I was quite sceptical about our game style last season (esp the boundary hugging bit) but I'm now starting to accept that our perceived 'negative' way of attacking was a bi-product of Neeld having to teach a lot our players 'accountable' footy . It's generally accepted that our level of accountable footy was deplorable before the new régime was appointed . Let's face it , Neeld and Bailey are polar opposites and it's no surprise (in hindsight) that many of our list last season just couldn't adjust to the ways of the new coaching staff . 15 of last years list are now gone and you'd hope that the 30 odd that have remained will now know where they stand and will (hopefully) know what is required to be part of a winning team . The recruits that we've brought in will (by and large) not have learnt too many bad habits so at least Neeld and co. won't have to re-teach them . We may end up playing a bit of an ugly style at times but that 'ugly' style is becoming more and more prevalent in today's footy and has to be accepted whether we like it or not . 10 wins is a realistic aim (especially with our draw) . Any more than that is a 'stretch' but you never know in sport .

My hope for next year is whatever Greg Denham says would make him admit he has totally mis-read what is happening at the MFC at the moment PLUS some. Given his rants i wouls say anything above 6-7 wins would force him to eat his words. My expectation is 8-10 wins and no losses >75 points.

Chocolate pudding?

I am looking forward to what Dees have in store for their annual Christmas video.

Not sure on your headline but I reckon Misfud and Wilson could be in a bit of trouble.

I don't think he is the whipping boy, but I do think most of us would like to see him reach his potential.

Best fruit - bananas.

LOL The off-season is for fantasy Plenty of time for realism and depression once the season starts

Geez, that was quick. They've only just been drafted and traded.....

Robert Johnston funeral details: ROBERT Johnston, who played 30 matches with Melbourne from 1950-52, passed away last week. His funeral will be held this Thursday, December 20 at 10am. Details: Gateway Chapel, Cnr.Wells Road and Thames Promenade, Chelsea Heights Please note: No flowers by request. Instead, donations in lieu to Cabrini Hospital would be appreciated. Envelopes available at chapel. Private cremation. Another Demon gone to the big footy oval. RIP Condolences to Family and friends

I didn't know the bloke but valé. It has been a big week for departures - Elizabeth Murdoch, Dave Brubeck, Ravi Shanker, Tony Charlton and now another former Demon.

WEBSITE COMPLETLY UPDATED. EVERYTHING IS NEW CHECK OUT THE PLAYERS SECTION WITH PHOTOS OF EVERYONE

I read someone say that Misson reckoned that the load they put onto the players last year was about 60% and this year would step up to about 80% of what they should be at, with them peaking at the load expected being in 2014, so this might be about right.I don't think it is as much that the club isn't optimistic, just that they can't load up on the players all at once and expect their bodies to be able to handle it (Essendon and Weapon anyone??) That said, I have no doubt that Neeld will be planning to go into every game with the expectation of trying to win the game, but the gameplan, the players required and the total commitment to the style etc, it's probably to be expected that it will take a little while yet.

Your 14 year old son sounds smarter than most of us Demonlanders combined.

At least there is hope. I shall give it my all. Ever thought of writing an Agony Aunt column for the paper?

I don't think Cale has ever eaten dessert in his life.

how long has Mitch been running for ? that for mine is very promising

Melbourne (58) def. Essendon (52) Probably our best highlight of the year and Essendon were definitely embarrassed.

So as I suspected we have never done 6 miserable years to finals in one season! look I am not wishing us to be poor, I just see us starting from such a low base and I don't believe in miracles. After six very poor years and the way our listed ended 2012 it is a long way back. We were uncompetitive for the majority of 2012 IMO 3 - 4 spots up the ladder per year is what we are facing. We have made a number of changes and with the exception of Dawes the players coming in are: - Kids who will take a couple of years - guys that are viewed by the Football world as almost past it - players who did not make it the first time around and have looked good at lower levels and are on their second chance. With luck we will have picked up experience and a couple of diamonds out of the rough. Nothing that in my opinion is going to propel us up the ladder at a fast rate. Slow and steady in 2013 with more list changes at the end of 2013 that hopefully improve our list that was reduced to 8 - 10 AFL standard players over a five year period. I am prepared for it taking 3 years to get to 7 -8 position. IMO any thing else is wishful thinking.

Grimes/JT Captain Jones VC Clark Frawley Howe or Rodan Dawes Jamar We could hold off on Howe as he is still only young and is developing him game, possibly put in D-Rod instead. Everything I've heard about him so far is that he's been a great mentor to the young blokes and is well regarded. Most of the people that have spoken up during the Darwin trip have been in the leadership group before so I can't see it changing much.

1. What are your realistic expectations for Viney and Toumpas, or even Hogan in the VFL? Keep in mind it's their first year. Leaving Hogan aside , Viney and Toumpas to both play well enough to not come under consideration to be dropped 2. Who do you think will take it to another level? Trengove , Watts , Sylvia (surely!) , Tom McDonald , Jones and Tapscott . 3. New mature aged recruits, who needs to prove their worth? Dawes 4. Last chance, who has flown under the radar for far too long? Sylvia (he needs to play predominantly in the midfield as he did for the last part of 2012) . Could also be a case of 'He is what he is' and accepted accordingly . 5. Combination (as discussed previously) where should all this lead us on the ladder, who are the key clubs we should be beat in order to climb the ladder? 10+ wins . We need to at least have a break even win/loss ratio against the Lions (play twice), Dogs (play twice), Freo (play twice), Tigers , Blues , North , Bombers , Saints and Port . That's at least 6 wins if my maths is correct Couple that with 4 wins against GWS and GCS and that gives us a total of 10+ . It is achievable ... if we only get 8 wins it will have a air of dissatisfaction to it even though we only won 4 games last season . I don't particularly like crystal ball gazing but 14 losses just doesn't cut it whichever way you look at it .

If it irks you that much contact the club. As was originally suggested. Fwiw, I think the 9 day Darwin camp has been covered very well, with daily updates, plus daily footage from each of the days. The club has done a tremendous job. And there's been a few images of Barry.... If you're waiting for the player list to be updated, drop the club a note, or wait until the club updates it soon enough. The site has already posted each of their highlights and where they have come from with background stories on each of their selections and how excited they were to be selected in interviews with Burgan. Good information for the fans. More than enough information than I could hope for.

sorry WYL. I didn't think I did left field your post, as you responded to my post to Biffen, so I didn't left field your post per se', but the war theme. without meaning to be adversary, I like to cast a broader view. It's not a putdown, whenever I do that, but trying to widen the aspect rather than a microcosm which does nothing. # Edit: I just realised you possibly think I'm correcting you, or something, when I respond to your posts, but rather I see you as a friend & not a foe, so feel like just adding,,, to your posts, as a friend. Its not criticism in any way, WYL.

My take is, no One Wins from War... there is only ever casualties of War. No one ever comes back better than when they went. Many have been hurt by the very hand of "Casualties of War"... I was assaulted when about 8 Yrs old, ambushed in the driveway of my home, around cracker night, by an Ex POW... He came out of the bushes in my driveway as I returned home in late Twilight, from setting off some crackers about the streets. a big man he picked me up under the armpits & shook the living shitt out of me until I fell out of my torn shirt.... A couple of my mates had alcoholic fathers & uncles,,, who fought in the war & were very aggressive types. My mates turned into alcoholics & both died recently from the disease. I don't think anyone is untouched from Wars.

I think those in charge will know that. Still I'm sure they'll be grateful for your advice. I think Biffin had his tongue in his cheek.

Rest is for for the vfl . The lazy can rest there. WHen the MFC is the hardest team to be it it into ,we may have a chance .

I notice you and your family almost never drink alcohol, Robbie. Despite the fact that it is legal, socially acceptable and readily available, you choose note to partake in it. Yet, you claim that if other drugs were legal and readily available, suddenly everyone is going to be a junkie. You seem to be experiencing some cognitive dissonance on the issue here. Alcohol is a drug. Just as THC (weed), MDMA (ecstasy), opiates, amphetamines, etc etc. They're all drugs, and alcohol is no less "druggy" than the others. It's just as damaging mentally and physically (I would argue much more damaging than THC on both fronts, in fact), yet you don't seem to be calling for alcohol to be banned. If you did, of course, everyone would refer to the prohibition laws in the USA in the 20's when alcohol was illegal, which served to achieve nothing except make the likes of Al Capone fabulously rich. Clearly, prohibition was a failure. Yet, it lives on today under another name - The War on Drugs. It's failing just as spectacularly now as it was then. People are using drugs regularly, despite their illegal nature (just as they did with alcohol), and the profits from the sale of those drugs is not going to the government to help fund education programs and harm minimisation techniques, but to organised crime gangs to fund violent criminal lifestyles (as it did with alcohol). Making drugs legal, all of them, every single one, and making them available in safe doses which are clearly marked and regulated will not correspond with a sudden increase in the use of drugs. It will, however, correspond with a sudden an immediately noticeable drop in organised crime and violence. The sad truth is that some people will always choose to use drugs to alter their minds. You're not one of them, but you must concede that they exist, the evidence for that is irrefutable. So, if we accept that as the truth, we must decide what to do to create the best society we can around the problem. The present method encourages and rewards violent criminals, pushes drug-users away from healthcare, family and friends, pushes drug-users towards engaging in criminal activity themselves to fund their drug habits, and attaches to them a social stigma that makes it even more difficult for them to leave the drug taking culture (over and above the physical withdrawal symptoms they experience). A society with legal and regulated supply of recreational drugs would not encourage or reward violent criminals, would keep regular drug users under the watchful eye of healthcare professionals, would generate a source of revenue with which to implement educational programs about the harms of drug abuse, and remove (some) of the need for users to engage in criminal activity to fund their addictions (price dependent). Again, I ask. If illicit drugs became legal, would you and your sons suddenly start taking them, and if not, why do you assume everyone else would?

1 Hawthorne 2 Adelaide 3 Sydney 4 Collingwood 5 Freo 6 West Coast 7 Geelong 8 North Melbourne 9 Carlton 10 Saints 11 Bombers 12 Tigers 13 Brisbane 14 Bulldogs 15 Dees 16 Port 17 Gold Coast 18 GWS

iPads are great.

Sigh...

How many times do you need to be told that that word is never to be used in the context of MFC - it will just give Ms Wilson further ammunition for her petty vile vendetta!

I don't see why people put any reverence to what Denham says or writes.....I know he upsets dee's supporters...that's why he does it.....I just ignore the barbs and will be pleased when we finally become a good side.and stick it up some "experts"...Until then I will ignore them...

The crocodiles saw a sign saying no swimming due to jack viney so the boys should be safe.

Watts? Come on guys last year he was still shirking contests every now and then. He's still miles away. Grimes and Trengove obviously Jones and Clark based on form Frawley Jamar Possibly one of Dawes, Garland or a surprise inclusion like Joel Macdonald who lacks some talent but is properly a respected older type these days or Jordie McKenzie

Cravat??

lol.... I can't see why they wouldn't be able to sell me memberships at the shop, when I've purchased them there before? Why would a business close down a purchase option? Had the service attendant been a little nicer, this wouldn't be an issue for me..... I've never asked what's in it for me, when purchasing my membership or how it benefits me? I can't see how it's selfish to ask to buy a membership? This incident maybe a one of..... But what if it isn't? How many members have been turned away? I know of three that have..... How many others....

they have the internet on computers these days?

It's all been there since draft night. Try connecting your computer to the internet.