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Do you know another KPF that doesn't crash packs? Buddy Franklin. He roams around the ground using his pace and gets his situations one on one, rather than from packs. He's actually more likely to be roving the pack than competing for a mark in it. The pack crashers in that forward line are Roughead and Hale. There's more than one way to skin a cat.

I absolutely agree. I don't understand this obsession with him being a KPF (i include Neeld in this). So that's what we drafted him for - so what. Why (partic at this stage) force him to play a position where we won't get the best out of him? He is such a good user of the ball (in a team of mainly spuds when it comes to effective use of the ball) i would rather he has 25 kicks per game (and 3-4 goal assists) than 8 and one goal as a KPF. He also doesn't get nearly enough credit fro how unselfish and team orientated he is. Last night he sounds he gave several goal assists in a game where he could have been excused for trying to shore up his own chances of round 1 selection with a bag of goals. I recall people happily comparing him to Hird. I for one wouldn't mid a player of that ilk running around for the dees. In any case static KPF's are a thing of the past and we spent 600k per year for a big lug in Clark so we don't need him in that role at present

In retrospect, one of the stupidist decisions we've made. His presence would have been invaluable last season.

Can't believe people are saying that history ( one game for GWS ) is proving we made a mistake letting Junior go. He was rising 34 and injured and we had a stack of young kids that needed games to gain experience, like Jordie Mc, Gys and Nicholson etc. We are rebuilding not a GF side. If he doesn't get a kick next game what will "history" have showed us.

How good is Demonland. Years ago I used to hang out to read the footy section to get what proved to be a few, shallow, ill informed comments about Melbourne. This thread is why I love this site. The discussion is heated and passionate but so far has not deteriorated into mindless abuse and insults. I can see both sides of the Jack Watts debate and frankly there is nothing more I would rather to talk and read about on a Sunday morning less than a week away from the start of a new season. Good on ya Demonlanders!

I'm concerned because I know how important the 2008 draft was to our future premiership chances. We had 3 picks in the top 20 and we had to get them right. We needed a key forward and we didn't get one. And for varying reasons Bleeze and Strauss have hardly got on the park. We tanked for picks the following year, so it's pretty obvious the club shared my sentiments regarding the value of draft picks. I've been following footy for a long time and I see what everyone likes about Watts. That's the easy part. I also see what he does poorly. And I see that we have a number one draft pick entering his 4th year that is a mile off being a key forward. I find that disappointing. Others get excited by him playing a nice outside role with a few clever goal assists in a seconds match. Each to their own. I know Watts' capabilities and I won't let him off the hook. If Hurley had Watts' attributes he'd be an all-time great. Watts will play 200 + games, that's not in question. Neeld will get the best out of Watts if he plays him as a roaming wing/high half forward. But Neeld has already stated that he'll play him as a key forward and he's certainly been playing him deep. He won't dominate games in that role. It will be interesting to see if Neeld changes his tune and plays Watts where he's likely to have the most impact. Watts has the capacity to dominate as a key forward, but he's not ready. He doesn't know how yet. Do you persist with him as a forward, or do you get the most out of him playing him somewhere else as his body develops ? I don't know the answer, although other footy experts believe he should be played down back, where he'll really learn what's required of a key forward. He'll learn how they go about it, as in, where they run; how hard they work; the timing of their leads; their appetite to hit packs and cause spills; how they lead, double back and lead again; how they create space for themselves, etc. I note that no-one challenges my positive comments re Tynan, Tapscott and Couch. Those comments are accepted because they're found to be pleasing. Watts' natural talent doesn't impress me. It's what he does with it that I'm interested in. Right now he doesn't know how to use that talent, other than playing an attractive outside role. That will impress some, but not me. If he was pick 50 I'd cut him slack and think we'd picked up a real talent, as a pick one I'm left underwhelmed. Some will say that the number his name was read out doesn't matter. they'll say that once you're on an AFL list it doesn't matter how you get there. I disagree. It matters a lot. A club makes a massive investment in a pick one and those type of picks help define your club and its destiny.

James looked great tonight imo, hard as ever, setting the example for his young team mates. got his hands all over the pill. Could use a guys like this as a leader over the last year or so....... i will admit i may be wrong on this one. I supported the decision after his hamstring injuries, and maybe the year off helped James but he was the captain we needed this is now obvious. Good luck Macca, and sorry

As with many pubs in this land, my local has a Friday night meat raffle, which I always enter, as the proceeds go to the Royal Childrens' Hospital. I don't often win. I am one of those guys that watches people win, time and time again. We all have those friends or acquaintances who just seem to be blessed. To use the idiom, I cant even win a kick in a street fight - thankfully. As with every week, the ticket seller asks me what number ticket I would like to have. I always think it doesn't matter, because if it's your time to win, then it just will happen. But last Friday night and given the events of the past week, when I was asked what number I wanted, I just had to choose that wonderful number 11. Sure enough, at 8:00 pm, the draw happens and I won first prize. Like I said, I don't consider myself a lucky person - quite the opposite in fact - but somehow, I had this sense I would win. And so it was. Last night we had a BBQ at home. People who barracked for Pies, Blues, Tigers and one very - and still bitter - stalwart of Fitzroy all spoke with such affection for Jimma. Even those who attended who actually hate footy - can you believe it - spoke with such emotion about our Jim. It was a great night and again, I was proud to be a Dees supporter. My win was really insignificant in reality, but then I thought Jim saw the best of things in the least of things. Go well Jim. I love ya mate and always will.

Hi all. First post. Antique so know about premierships. Just replying to the Sheahan interview. First question Mike asked was about how messy last year was. Got a stock-standard waffle answer. Second question was about the press conferance early last year, & how $cully stated all those points about no contact etc. Very direct questions. $ said he'd moved on & just looking forward (waffle/waffle) Mike pushed hard several more times & got stone-walled. Each time $ just lost more credibility. After the interview there was a general discussion about $ & the concensus was that he lied. Even that dip-stick velvet glove agreed. Hope this helpes. Just remember I'm antique. Carn DEES

Apparently an AFL club has a 20yo, 196cm, 90kg bloke running around in the VFL who gave what many believe a BOG performance in round 1. It gets better! Word has it that he has already shown similar ability at the highest level on a few occasions. Boy, I would love that club to be us... Watts that?

Correct. Anyway, in terms of entertainment I'd much prefer a Buddy Franklin style player than some hulk who crashes packs. Hopefully MC will do enough of that for us. When Watts is a bit heavier he'll be doing as much crashing as necessary for his style of play. He is just 21 and a few hours. Put the razors away for a year or two - especially the retrospective drafting razors.

Surely that was Curry? Gives you not a lot outside of a streamload of sh!t. Well that's good. I had written of Fitzpatrick before this pre-season, so it's good to hear he's getting bigger and more confident. I'm not holding out any hope, which I guess means that anything we get from him will be a positive, but it's nice to hear that a developing tall at Melbourne is doing better than expected, for once. Too true. Watts is not going to be the next Brown, Roughead, Franklin, Cloke, Dawes, Pavlich, Riewoldt, other Riewoldt, or anyone else, for that matter. He's going to be the next Jack Watts. And he's going to play in a position which suits him. If that's FF, so be it. If it's CHF, so be it. If it's the wing, or HF, or HB even, so be it. The talent is there, the fitness too. Once the hunger, the aggression, and the consistency settle in, we'll see he has got what it takes.

If the number 1 key forward in the game at the moment doesn't crash packs, then I don't see it as a major issue if Jack Watts doesn't crash packs. Buddy and Watts are different players, but that's the point. Watts is different to Buddy, and Cloke, and Brown, and Kennedy etc etc. Watts doesn't need to crash packs to be influential, nor does he need to smash bodies, nor does he need to get into a punch on. Much in the same way that Buddy doesn't need high level decision making, a calm head or silky skills. Nor does Josh Kennedy need ground level skills, agility or awareness in traffic. It's not their style. It doesn't stop them being influential. Scott Pendlebury has 'tiptoed' his way around to a Norm Smith. The difference is that we are all judging him against different criteria. You are judging him against the mythical key forward you imagine in your head. Others are judging him against other images. Some are just comparing him with Jack Watts.

We needed his leadership and influence last year. I don't really think the issue is whether he has a good season with GWS this year. Football lists continue to evolve. Players will always be coming and going - it's not a static thing, rather it's a continuum. In this context, just because McDonald was older and wouldn't have been around for a flag (or indeed even the next couple of seasons), doesn't mean you just cut him, particularly having regard to the leadership skills he brought to the list (ie, he clearly had a role to play last year and potentially also this year). The previous football department seemed determined to part the red sea to get young players a game. It seems to me that all good clubs have real competition for spots, and that young players need to earn their selection, not just assume it. Players like McDonald create the benchmark for performance and attitude - I still find it bizarre that this seemed not to have been fully recognised at the time.

I agree with Malthouse, play Watts at CHB, get him in amongst it. he has done some very good work down back. no harm in doing that. Garry Lyon, Pavlich, Glendinning etc gained confidence early on in their careers and excelled down back. Watts is capable. Grimes Watts Garland at half back releasing Frawley as an attacking full back would be a salivating thought for this year.

Hird is a good comparison to Watts . Still pretty handy without crushing bodies and smashing apart packs .

Perhaps the most insightful comment that I have ever read regarding Watts.

2 Goals, 26 possessions (that's 26 ...) and named in the best. Think I could live with that. There's only one Jack Watts. If he becomes the first 196 cm small forward, so be it. So much of the criticism of him comes from expectations of what he should be. Perhaps we should just give him a chance to be what he is.

Fitzy - Played forward and relieved in the ruck he takes a good mark and competed well. I don't think he will play round 1. Still has to work on his decision making at times looks like a lost deer. Sheehan - Played full back most of the game and competed really well. He will be good competition for the backline Strauss - saw him take a couple of kick-ins he got a few possessions reckon he is 3-4 weeks away needs to get his touch back. Couch - Would be surprised if he isn't promoted for round 1 I had him best on ground his contested and clearance work was first rate. Tapscott - played on the wing to start with. Then after about 2nd qtr moved forward kicked 2.2 for the night was a strong presence and tackled strong in the 50m. He showed no signs of having trouble picking up the tempo after time off with injury. He has staked a claim for round 1 depends on his match fitness though. Watts - First quarter he was looking a little lost played predominantly on the wing in first quarter and followed the ball around and competed at stoppages seem to be given a license to follow the ball around. Although he didn't impact much in the first I think it helped establish the tempo of the game for him. After the first quarter he played high half forward and started to come into the game and bring others into the game. I think he had about 4 direct goal assists over the game and after half time he played up on the 50 and stayed there for the rest of the game. I had him kicking 2 goals for the night. Rightly amongst the best tonight. 3rd best on field. He was good in a congested 50 and helped win the game in the last quarter. Morton - Played half back and as many good things he did, he also did bad. Please someone tell him not to kick the footy off one step. The ball has no penetration and is often intercepted. However he was solid without being spectacular. I know he is much maligned but he didn't perform too badly tonight and he did kick an important goal to start the last quarter. Gysberts - was on the ball most of the night. He laid some real strong tackles and won a lot of clearances 2nd best on ground. Has put his hand up for round 1. I couldn't see any signs of poor endurance as he contested the first and last center square ball ups. Bail - Played really well as a tagger for most of the night he did his job and worked hard all night. Tynan - huge raps for the kid he started down back and then went forward kicked a nice goal and missed a shot after the siren on half time. I think i'll claim this kid he looks the goods. Grimes - i think he only played a half? not sure he marshaled the troops down back I think he might play another week at Casey and miss round one to get more game time. Mcdonald - was the most damaging forward think he was involved in 3 or 4 goals and he just loves the hard stuff. Can he stand up in a tackle or what he is very strong through the hips. Not sure who I have missed but apologies. We a playing the full ground press which seemed to be the same for Willy a couple of times Willy got over the back of the press and scored 2-3 goals out the back. In the first quarter the ball was 54% in our forward half 2nd quarter was around the 30% mark and about 25% in the 3rd. I had about 60% in the final quarter. (saw the board at 3qtr time) We played the boundary line all night I saw one kick for the night that centered the ball into the middle from the backline for the entire night. We were well down on Willy for possessions for night but this is more to do with the game plan. The contested ball after half time was great! not that good to watch but its so far removed from the way we used to play. Casey was murdered by the umps down field free kicks and 50m were heavily weighted against Casey. Overall it was an even contest by looking Casey had a lot more MFC players than Willy had bulldogs I think we had double. Casey was lucky to win inaccurate kicking cost Willy. I would have been happy to loose we are playing in way which has a defensive mindset first. You hear players shouting instruction to ensure that the structures are maintained at ball ups, kick ins. Structure is first, we get the defense right and I think the game plan will allow for more attack when we get our basics right first. good news MFC players all appeared injury free - YAY Kyle Matthews did hurt a shoulder and was subbed off early. That's about it all i can come up with.

Saw the first half. Gys involved in a lot. Seemed to win ball around contests and get it moving quickly. Watts just did a lot of nice stuff and was the classiest user on the field by some margin. In the first half did lots of little things BUT a few pieces of play stood out on the back flank and deep in the forward pocket - beat multiple opponents, gave himself time and hit up targets well. Strauss worked himself into the game. Tapscott was strong in contests and kicked two goals by taking gutsy marks at about 50, went back and slotted the damn thing. Bail engaged and aggressive. Tom mcdonald involved when the ball went forward but "not quite" a lot, if you know what I mean. Morton disappoints me constantly, and then does something really nicely and I remember that I shouldn't damn him. I did not notice grimes much, but one instance where he straightened his run at the ball to put off the opponent led to him winning the contest and clearing the ball. All in all willy got a lot if free kicks. I think 4 or 5 of their first 6 goal came from dubious frees or a chain of dubious frees. A number of their players looked more skilled and less willing to scrap than the Casey counterparts. They caught casey napping a few times: If casey had the ball in dispute and in their forward line, a player for willy would lurk at abotu hbf (for willy) on the opposite side to where the play was. If willy won the ball, this playe would stay wide and run towards the forward line. Casey got caught out by this a few times and did not seem to realise that they were done by by being outnumbered, not overlap and superior running.

11th. Whilst I have absolute confidence in the new crew in the football department, it seems we are about to embark on another rebuild this season, which is absolutely devastating given that the rebuild officially commenced in 2007 and we're now having to once again revise our structure, personnel and on field culture. Barring injury, Mitch Clark will prove himself to be the recruit of the year. If we get to a good start (ie, capitalise on our good draw), we could have an okay season, because I think Neeld's influence will increasingly pay dividends throughout the year. Make no mistake, we now have an absolute elite football department - it's the quality of the list that still raises concerns. Some say it's really good, but I'm not so sure. I think with some smart, effective tweaking over the next couple of years, it could become really good. That said, it's sure to be an interesting season - so many variables. For instance, I think the tragic loss of Jim Stynes may actually harden the resolve of the playing group. I hope it will - Jim deserves that. The first game against the Lions will be as interesting as any we've watched in the last decade IMO. I want to see real, no nonsense Magner-like hardness out there for the entire game. If we do, we will win the game and it could define our season.

Beer loses its head, Curry repeats.

The decision to cut Junior (at the time), was the right one. He's body was beginning to fail him and I was worried about him pushing on again. In addition, his departure meant an extra spot on the veterans list which was supposed to be for Cam Bruce. However, obviously Cam decided to walk and had we known that before, Junior may have retained his place. Easy to say we should've retained Junior after playing one good game following a year off AFL. However, I just wish we knew Cam Bruce was going to be a nob a little sooner.

What I find bizarre is the fact taht you seem to think that we are "satisfied" with where Watts is at. We are not satisfied, we just relise, at this current stage, that he is not the KPF that we hoped for (crash and bash type), but becasue we know of this amazing skill he has, we are hoping that he will play well in the seniors in a position that currently suits his build/team structure/experience/etc. We are all agreeing that he was recruited as a Key Forward, and in my opinion, and a lot of others it seems, he is on track to fulfilling that role. Obviously he isn't coming on quick enough for your liking, but that's just your bad luck. At the risk of speaking on behalf of all those against your thoughts, we're not all juiced up over what he did last night. As someone else said, if he can get 25+ possies, kick 2 goals and have 2+ goal assits each game in the big league, it won't matter a stuff where he plays. We've filled "that" hole you hoped Watts could achieve by picking up Clark. Hird had Lloyd as the main target up forward, which allowed Hird to play whatever role he wanted. Let's not forget, in the past 2 seasons, we have had no key forward. Jurrah is NOT a key forward, nor Green, not Petterd. This kid (Jack) has had unrealistic expectations about the role he has the capacity to play. It will change. By the way, I'm loving these personal insults - these sort of things catch up with folk like you. Considering the week that the footy club has had, and the great man that has left us, your continual putting down of posters, and bring their families in to some of your childish posts, just shows that blokes like Jimmy are a rare breed. It is quite obvious that you are a nothing when it obviously gives you great pleasure in putting others down. I'm glad I am well above you, but let's face it, it wouldn't be hard, because when you are nothing, there's plenty above you. Don't agree? Just becasue people see the game differently to you means that "they" either have a child's mentality, or you feel the need to spoon feed. I think that's a pretty good start to my arguement (<----just for you ).

"A Tribute to Jim Stynes".... GEM Chanel 90 tonight at 10.40pm for those who haven't seen it

Big bodied forwards who can take a mark , create a contest , play in front all the time and bring other players into the game are vital in todays footy . Pies , Cats , Eagles and Hawks all have at least 2 . Sometimes they'll play 3 . It's the Blues achilles heal . We've got maybe one in Clark . Probably one if we're being optimistic . Neeld has come from a club that always plays at least 2 big bodied forwards . And the Pies keep making it to the last 2 weeks of September . Neeld talks about grunt a lot as well . And we're possibly going to be playing around the boundary line from defence . It stands to reason that Neeld wants at least 2 big bodied forwards in the key positions . If Neeld was going to play Jack at CHF in game 1 vs Brisbane then why would he not play him at CHF last night . Surely Mark would have some input . It doesn't bother me where Jack plays . As long as we get maximum value out of him . Cheers

Kennedy is not a recycled player, nor is Mumford or McGlynn. They were targetted by the Swans as good players who weren't getting opportunities at their own club. They paid overs to get Mumford and it was a great move. Kennedy the same. Remember Darren Jolly?? Premiership ruckman x 2?? Was getting 8 minutes a game under Daniher because of his lovechild Jeff White. Swans pounced and did brilliantly. There are plenty of these types at other clubs. The Swans are great at recruiting to plug a gap. They really do their homework to get ready made players. Rhyce Shaw, Ted Richards, Stewart Maxfield - the list goes on. We could learn a lot from them.

Hooray, bad Jack Watts electricity puns!

WATTS POWERS CASEY by Ice Station The Casey Scorpions had to battle hard to win their opening game of the season against flag favourites Williamstown by 2 points at Casey Fields on Saturday night. The game was tinged with sadness as flags flew at half mast and the players and crowd paid their respects to the great Jim Stynes who passed away earlier in the week. It was under his presidency, that the alignment between Melbourne and Casey was consummated. The Scorpions had the better of their opponents for most of the first half with young Demons Luke Tapscott and Jack Watts firing up forward and Jordan Gysberts winning the ball well from contested stoppages. Unfortunately, they were unable to put too much distance between themselves and their rivals and they led by 13 points at the main break. Willy took advantage of this when it dominated the third quarter and turned the game around to lead by 14 points at the end of the term at which point the Seagulls looked likely winners. However, Watts produced some of the form that made him a number one national draft choice back in 2008. Early in the game he set up some crucial goals and his third quarter goal was his team's only score in the third term but there was more to come. The Scorpions were right behind the eight ball at the final break. They had conceded the last three goals of the third term and trailed by eight points with three payers unable to come off the interchange. But in the final stanza, it was Watts who was the difference in class. He kicked a nice long goal himself and combined with onballers Couch and Gysberts to ensure that his team would fight its way back into the game setting up a close and exciting finish. David Collins crumbed a ball to put the team in front at the 22-minute mark and, after some tense moments Michael Riseley's marked and goaled to put the team ahead by eight points with minutes left. The Seagulls broke back with a late goal but the Scorpions held on in exciting finish to win by two points. The best of the Casey listed players were Collins while Evan Panozza was steady in defence after a tough start. His co-captain Kyle Matthews just can't take a trick after enduring the past two years coming off with an injured shoulder early in the game after his usual show of courage when attempting to intercept a mark. It was a good win over a highly fancied opponent which had more AFL listed players but their calibre was not of the same standard as Watts and co and one wonders whether the Scorpions will be able to field as strong a side once the regular AFL season commences. HOW THE DEMONS FARED A dozen Demons took part in the game but quite a few would be considered candidates for the club's best 22. Here is how they fared:- Rohan Bail - tough, hard and added some pace. Thomas Couch ® - a really hard working effort on the ball. A great contestant and needs to keep up that standard for promotion to the senior list. Jack Fitzpatrick - worked hard but beaten in the ruck and was reasonably solid around the ground. Probably better suited to the forward/rucking role at this stage of his career. Jack Grimes - started off strongly in the first quarter and did all of the right things as a defender but faded out and was used sparingly after that. Jordan Gysberts - excellent in the clearances and won the ball with great consistency through all four quarters to mount a strong case for inclusion in Melbourne's team for the opening round. Tom McDonald - overshadowed by Watts as a forward but he didn't let the team down. Marked strongly, kicked a goal and provided good assistance when occasionally called into the ruck. Cale Morton - working his way back into form and a place in defence after missing several weeks of the preseason with injury. Started poorly and had a few goals kicked on him but put in a much better second half in which he also kicked the first goal of the last quarter to get the revival under way. Jai Sheahan ® - impressed again in defence and suppressed a dangerous opponent in Skinner. James Strauss - played a solid defenders game whereby he stopped his opponents and delivered the ball with accuracy without doing anything obtrusive. Copped a heavy knock to the face late in the game. Luke Tapscott - did well in his first run after injury, particularly in the first half when he slotted two goals and played a strong role at half forward. Josh Tynan - impressive youngster who had a go whether in defence or when moved forward later in the game. Kicked a goal and could be a real surprise packet. Jack Watts - sublime skills, beat his opponents hands down whether on a wing or drifting further forward. Doesn't bash and crash (he might in time) but if he takes that game into the first round of AFL, the club will benefit greatly. Casey Scorpions 3.4.22 8.7.55 9.7.61 13.9.87 Williamstown 3.1.19 6.6.42 10.9.69 12.13.85 Goals Casey Scorpions Tapscott Watts 2 Collins Fieldsend Fitzpatrick T McDonald Morton Nicholls Riseley Salton J Tynan Williamstown Panos 3 Cravino 2 Campbell Hoghton Hooper Johannisen Redpath Sherman Skinner Best Casey Scorpions Watts Collins Couch Panozza Gysberts Fitzpatrick Williamstown Jolley Roberts Campbell Goodes Djerrkura McNamara AFL Vic Development League Casey Scorpions 3.2.20 5.3.33 6.6.42 9.7.61 Williamstown 2.2.14 9.4.58 16.5.101 19.9.123 Goals Casey Scorpions Johnson Petropoulos Thompson 2 Costigan Pollard Smith Williamstown Woods 3 Anastasio Conway McHarg Wallace 2 Carr Gray Hevern McLeod Mead Morris Muggivan Witkowski Best Casey Scorpions Pollard Patti Petropoulos Hill Plummer Smith Williamstown Witkowski Carr Morris McHarg Gray Sing

I don't think we made a mistake letting him go when we did. The error was in the way it was handled. He should have been aware from the outset that it was going to be his last season with us, and with the plan to transition him into coaching clearly spelled out. Instead, you had a guy who played a pretty good season and thought he'd done enough to be kept on when the non-playing part of the club had already stamped his papers. You need to bear in mind that keeping Junior on the list would have cost us draft picks. We needed to move players on to make room for the next generation to come into the side. Who was going to go in his place so that we could take some kids in the draft? While I think it was poorly handled by the club, I also think that the way he responded was possibly the most selfish thing I've ever seen from him. He wanted to hang on for one more year with a body that was beginning to fail and prevent a kid from getting the chance that he was given. The club had a plan in place for him and were planning on having him move straight into a coaching/mentoring role, but he chose to walk away in a snit. Basically, it was the right decision, but the way it was handled on both sides was pretty poor form.

Couldn't agree more BH, he was certainly recruited as a key forward. Will he end up there? I don't know and as we are several years down the track and have a different list I wonder how important that is. I saw last nights game and just marveled at Watt's skill. In the end every time he went near it the crowd rose. At one point the ball looked like it was going through for a point but he kept it in, got it to a team mate who goaled. He makes the very hard look very easy because for him it is. He couldn't have done that at VFL level 2 years ago and I doubt he could do it at AFL level now but I think he will in future and he will be very effective, but perhaps not as a key forward. I share your disappointment that he is not the pack breaking key forward that we "bought" but I relish the future watching him do things. Unlike many I don't want him to break packs apart, I want him to apply his skills and be a very effective player - perhaps elite. Let less skilled bigger builds break their bodies on that task as Jack would be wasted on it anyway. Other players couldn't lay a hand on him last night and it was a pretty good standard game. IMO Watts could be the elite midfielder we crave but that's just speculation. BH, how do you interpret Jack playing on the wing for much of the time last night when Neeld said he'd play deep forward? That is the really interesting part to me.

Forward can mean MANY things. If the club thought Watts was a crash and bash physical FF, they wouldn't have recruited Mitch Clark. There is no doubt that at 20, Watts has loads of work to do, but no matter how much we stamp our feet, he will never be the gorilla FF some people are delusionally hoping he will. I doubt the club ever thought that's how he'll turn out, in fact, I'm sure he was earmarked as a roaming CHF. And few, if any his size, have the skills, agility or smarts to do a better job in a modern day set up. Nobody is more valuable to a team than a tall link player who can hit a FF on the chest. That is what Watts will do for us. He will also kick goals, take good contested marks and roam the packs. He won't ever smash his opponent physically, crash packs or break skulls. He is the Garland of our forward line, as opposed to the Frawley. That is why Mitch Clark is here, and why McDonald is being developed as a forward.

How do you know what he was drafted to do? He was simply our number 1 pick because he is tall and has skills. Stop assuming you know best. Can't stand that sort of crud. It's an annoying habit that you will have to get used to changing.

not helpful. might as well say it'll all be wasted if he - or anyone else - falls under a truck tomorrow. Where does your "somehow" come from? He denies the charges, and is released on minimal bail, but you would rush to speculating on sentencing? Strange thinking for a "supporter"... Hold your nerve, and don't talk silly talk

I was there yesterday and I'm a bit confused about some of the reports coming from the game. Tom McDonald played up forward for most of the game with short runs in the ruck. He certainly presents quite well and is very strong overhead, and shows some really good game awareness. I think that, as a defender, he could play some really meaningful AFL footy this year. But the coaches seem to have decided that it will be as a forward that he'll be a long term player. As a forward, he'll need time to become physically strong enough to dominate overhead. He took some good marks, but it's only his second year and he'll need time to become a monster. Gysberts was very good and seemed to be much better defensively than he has been in past years. He was excellent in the clearances last night. Tapscott did one or two nice things, but wasn't particularly involved. Much better in the first half and only seemed to play limited minutes. Needs a lot more game time, though it was good to see that his touch, in patches, was there. Grimes did what he needed to do. Played at half back and got through the game with a minimum of fuss. Didn't play the full game as he was rested later. Watts was clearly the best player on the ground. Started on the wing in both halves but then went forward later in each half. When he went forward he turned the game twice - late in the first half when he turned a deficit into a lead with about 3 goal assists, and then in the last quarter. The queries about his marking are interesting, because there are two aspects to his marking. He isn't a pack crasher, which is what disappoints many who expect Jonno Brown, but he's actually very good one on one. He dropped a couple of contested marks after he'd already done the hard work to work his opponent out of it. I think we just need him to win more of the footy around the ground than he did in preseason because every touch he has turns into gold. He was clearly BOG last night. Morton was not his best last night. He kicked a goal, but conceded a few goals to Panos early due to body size. Better in the second half, but he has a lot more in him than what he showed last night. Strauss did some good things although he didn't get heaps of the footy. He was good defensively, I thought, where he used his speed and power to win and neutralise contests against small, agile opponents. Copped a high elbow at one point and took time to get off the ground. Hopefully he's OK, because he's a player that needs to play lots of match footy to develop. Fitzpatrick was a major, major positive for mine. He took a lot of good marks across half forward and competed really hard to bring the ball to ground. He used his pace well to create opportunities and was genuinely competitive overhead. What he needs to do is just get bigger. He is much bigger than the ecto-twig that first arrived at the club, so we know it's coming, but we just need to be patient. The major thing I noticed was the amount of pressure we placed on Willy. Our midfield applied great pressure, especially early, and it certainly looked like we had a very good press going and we spent a lot of time in our forward line. A good start against a strong club, but it'll probably be one of the best Casey teams we'll see this year.

Hallelujah to that! Standard was very good, it was a close contest and it was good win By Casey even if they had a few more Melbourne listed players on the park. Williamstown are a flag favourite and they really were outplayed when it mattered. Raspberries to the AFL, their split round and single game slopfest. I can understand them wanting all the media attention in Sydney but I'm in Melbourne so this game for me was a non-event and of no interest. Perhaps it's the fact I'm a club watcher, not a game watcher. Much to like about the games of some MFC players last night and it is predictable that the focus of attention is Watts. His game was solid without being spectacular. The overhead snap through traffic even missing would have had some commentators jubilating had it been pulled off by a 7 foot Fijian. Simple fact is that Watts does not have the agro, pack crashing body or mentality as yet. Hopefully it comes soon and people will get off is back. Just a comment on the way Casey played yesterday. There are signs that it is closely aligned to the way Melbourne has in pre-season. They moved the ball mainly up the wings and with success. Switches were quick as well as most F50 entries. It wasn't just a case of bombing it in but there were occasions when it worked such as with Watts one out. Casey were also able to mount some good attack from turnovers through the centre where Willy preferred to run.

How about you judge the guy on what he is rather than what you hoped he would be. Ignore the fact he is not a power forward and that he was a number one pick. 26 possies, a couple of goals and a handful of assists is a dominant display in any ones book whether you see it or not. Be disappointed that he is not what you hoped for but judge his performance for what it is.

Went out to Casey last night, and while Watts didn't play the classic CHF game he was still clearly the most influential player out there. Kicked 2 2nd half goals when it really mattered, gave off numerous goal assists, a couple from some clean gathers near the boundry, beating more then one opponent and finding a team mate when the ball looked certain to go out. Oh and he kicked probably the greatest point you'll ever see from a snap over his shoulder in the last quarter which if it had of gone through would have put Casey in front at that point in time. He took on some responsability tonight to make things happen, and was good to see him back himself on occassion instead of looking to give it off everytime. Was a very good standard match and I'm very glad I went along to Casey instead of watching the Sydney-v-GWS match.

I've said before that we should ask Jack where he'd be most comfortable playing. Perhaps he doesn't know himself, but if Neeld is smart, he'll be able to find out. Only then can we get the best out of everyone's favourite underperforming number one draft pick.

Yes i think our excuses are well over. No more talking about kids getting games. Our list just has to perform. After 3-4 years of drafting we have about 12 players that we still do not know if they are any good at senior level. 2012 will reveal a lot. If it doesn't then this list is in big trouble.

Re: Casey vs. Williamstown, Sat 6pm Pretty good crowd out there tonight considering Casey were complete underdogs going in to the game. I must say I was glad I went out there, as it was a very good game to watch (apart from being distracted having to type in to a stupid phone). Players; McDonald He tried hard all night but it didn't seem to happen for him tonight, he spent most of the night down back, but had no influence on the game. Strauss He went ok tonight but didn't seem to have as much clear, clean possession as in the pre season games. Played all 4 quarters but with limited time in each. Still a few weeks away from a call up. Fitzpatrick This guy has a [censored] load of potential, the way he moves around the ground when he is on the ball is very impressive. He has ability in ruck work & is very athletic & his kicking & decision making is improving quickly. The problems occur when he is moved forward, but I reckon it would be hard for any key forward to have an influence with the way the ball is delivered in to the forward line. Tynan This kid is a gun, he is gutsy, can take a contested mark, can play forward, back or midfield, makes good decisions, delivers the ball well & can kick a goal... He will play quite a few games this year in the 1sts... I can't wait until he gets a couple of pre seasons under his belt. Sheehan Started a bit slow tonight but he got the feel for the pace of the game & was extremely solid. I beleive he was moved on to Skinner ( who was a danger against us) & he beat him. I think, once again that there would be another big tick put against his name. Couch He is one tough nut. I'm not sure he will get a call up yet but he sure will pile the pressure on to the other midfielders to not drop their guard. he won a lot of ball both inside & outside. Morton I have been a supporter of this kid for awhile but he just doesn't seem to get it !!!!!! He should dominate at this level, but he just seems to drift along, doing things every now & then, looking good doing it & in between all of that he has quite a few clangers... Not good enough Bail One tough nut, I would have him in my team as one of the 1st picked... I mentioned earlier tonight that I reckon he should be our small forward option. Very good tonight. Grimes. He should be better than his opposition tonight & he was. Very clever & controlled the backline. he didn't have a heap of possessions but I don't think that was an issue. Gysberts Tough, strong, clever & good ball user. he did another great job tonight & will get a call up next week. Tapscott He probably got a bit tired towards the end, but it was bloody great to see him take strong contested marks, crunch blokes in tackles, kick long goals & forgive him for giving 50 metre penalties for hurting players with solid hits. I would love to say he will play next week but it ain't going to happen... Watts He started on the wing (1st qtr), played deep forward (2nd qtr), a bit of everything in the 3rd & deep forward in the last. This kid showed enough today to impress the coaching panel & demand a spot in the team... It appeared to be a full contingent of the hierarchy there tonight, so they will get a clear idea of who did what (probably totally opposite to my opinion). It was also really nice to see that a FULL minutes slience was given, in respect of Jim by ALL at the ground. I hope all you guys enjoyed kicking back at home tonight, but you missed a really good game tonight, especially you Stretch... PS, I had a really good chat to Jack Fitzpatrick's mum & dad tonight & got another really good insight to the vibe down there at the moment. It re-instilled my belief in what is happening at MFC... Bring on next week.

Judging by the reports I think the role of the development coaches in each position - Nicholls, Greaves and Satterley came into fruition tonight. Good to see our reserves in Casey play the same way as the seniors, it might mean short term pain for both but in the end will help.

Strauss copped an albow to the face. Lay on the turf for a couple of mins before walking off dazed. He didn't return to the field, so hope it's nothing more than minor concussion. Mark Neeld left the balcony immediately to join him in the rooms. Watts came off the ground with about 4-5 mins to go with what looked like some minor knee soreness. The doctor was checking him over but I don't think it's anything to worry about. Started the game on the wing and moved forward before half time. Got better and better as the game went on. Was involved in a lot of the forward plays and finished with a couple of goals and a handful of assists. Loved watchin Tappy out there. Couple of big hits/tackles as you'd come to expect and spent most of the time around half forward. Had plenty of bench time but played the game out. 2 goals and can tell has trimmed down a little similar to Jonesy. Morton, not a lot to cheer about. Still frustrates me how long he takes to put boot to ball. Was involved now and then but nothing special. After a slowish pre season, Gys looked good tonight I thought. Defintely Knows how to find the ball around the stoppages. Didn't get a great look at Grimes as I spent most of the night switching ends to be around the forward 50. Played the game out but like Tappy, had a fair amount of bench time. First VFL game and didn't mind headin out to Casey. A bit chilly, but a good atmosphere and a good contest. You could feel the crowd hanging onto every Watts moment. Should play round 1.

Strauss good up until he took a late hit. Looked very sore around the neck area when he walked off. The player that got him off the ball was No.43 Redpath. Not even a free kick. Funny thing was the ump paid dubious 50m penalties an frees for late tackles to WIlly all night but an obvious free to Casey was not seen. Watts definitely looked a class above but still does not impact enough. Although he definitely was better in the second half especially last quarter - did some nice turns Tappy - loved his intent. Hurled himself on to a Willy player to run him down. Cant wait for him to be back in the seniors. Loved his kicking and run. Wont be surprised if he is in the 22 especially if he has a good week at training and pulls up all right after tonight. Bails - did some good in and under but to me he is one that could miss out. Josh Tynan - is definitely a senior prospect. Has good hands. Grimes - as reported came off at half time but has definitely a quality about him. McDonald - was a little disappointed with him tonight although kicked a nice goal. Couch - did nothing wrong but not in the first 22 yet Gysberts - definitely a better game this week Morton what can I say. He is really frustrating to watch Fitzgerald - needs to hold those marks. Kelvin Lawrence apparently did not have a good afternoon.

I must watch footy differently to everyone else. I found Watts disappointing. He's a 196cm outside mid. We know that he's classy when the ball is free and wide, but he didn't do any key position stuff tonight. Yes, I know he played off a wing, yes he did some nice goal assists, but he had plenty of opportunities to impact marking contests, but he still spectates. So many Melbourne supporters are beguiled by some skill, but they're clearly easily pleased. The guy is entering his 4th year and isn't a key forward. He's not what we thought we were drafting. He may become a key forward, but he's not even close right now. Just keeping it real people. My standouts were Gysberts and Couch. Gysberts tried hard last week, but it didn't really work for him. He was in much better touch tonight. He got plenty of inside ball and worked really hard. A really good game. Couch got leather poisoning in the first half. He gets that quick clearance kick, or handball, he's as tough as nails and tackles heaps. He'll turn the odd one over, but he also had plenty of really nice disposals. I liked his game. Fitzy is really improving. He was a presence tonight and took some nice contested marks. I love Tapscott. He was a forward tonight (despite reports at the beginning of this thread) and took 3 excellent marks. His tackling was also ferocious. A special mention to Tynan. I really like him as a footballer. He's got class, he's tough, and a beautiful size. He'll play more than 200 games for the MFC, EDIT: I left at 3/4 time and Grimes played in the third quarter, but was quiet. Also, Tapscott never started on a wing (or down back), he started and stayed on a HFF.

Watching the Giants this competitive in their first game makes me even more angry about 186. Was impressed. Can't wait to see us in round one now.

Casey win by 2 points - Casey Scorpions 3.4.22 8.7.55 9.7.61 13.9.87 Williamstown 3.1.19 6.6.42 10.9.69 12.13.85 Match write up when I get home.

I think Petterd should be afforded that honour.

P.P.S Tapscott P.P.P.S Watts (when he finds form)

I think plenty of players have just had a fright at the MFC. Activating the compo picks is a declaration that people will be moving on at year's end. We'll be using AT LEAST three picks (more likely 4-5) on drafting new talent, plus in all probability upgrading rookies. A lot of fringe players have to see the writing on the wall with this move.