POSTGAME: Rd 05 vs Brisbane

[Gawndy the Great 7,398]

6 minutes ago, Demonland said:

 

So we know this was a hallmark of Richmond's game intended or not. They would often lose the clearances but still manage to force turnover. We know how effective they were from scoring from turnover. It is the best way to win. So how do they do it? It was outnumbering the stoppage. We condeded a fair bit of goal from stoppages last night, it would have been much higher than usual. From memory, Lions first 5 or 6 goals came from stoppage. 

We setup stoppages to win, whereas Richmond used to setup to neutralise and force turnover. What does my head in, is that we are often -1 or even -2 at stoppage in terms of matchups. I think we have to scrap this idea of having the +1 in defence to allow Lever to intercept.  My 3 year old nephew even knows now that you need to put work into Level and not let him be unmanned. Neutralise stoppage at the source, if reduces our dependance on winning clearances, it may mean we become a bit easier to score against, but  for crying out loud we are getting mauled this year in the middle and will continue to do so until our trio of Trac, Viney and Oliver are in better form.

[leave it to deever 15,382]

3 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

last night, we all walk away being somewhat "shocked

I wasn't shocked we lost.

I was shocked by how poorly we played.

I don't want to take away the Lions effort but we were nowhere near our best and the score flattered us.

The more marks, clearances and tackles was telling how bad we were.

The Double gather round has clearly taken a big toll.

With Salo and Oliver injured we were two men down as well.

But it was our fwds that were crushed. Between Fritta, Bbb, Petty and Jvr there was ONE tackle for the whole game. That's a telling stat. Ball came in....ball went out. Not via the umpire.

It's hard to explain that metric other than fatigue I think.

 

[The heart beats true 16,184]

3 minutes ago, leave it to deever said:

Ball came in....ball went out

Koz was a huge loss. They just walked the ball out of defence, and within 10 seconds it was in their forward 50.

[MrFreeze 1,376]

16 minutes ago, leave it to deever said:

I thought they performed pretty well all round.

Past the 1st quarter yes, but those d50 stoppage goals at the start of the game was very weak. All of May, Lever and TMAC were playing behind their man and it led to easy goals. Brissy scored 4/4 goals from stoppage in the first quarter, all just outside d50 pretty much. 

[Gawndy the Great 7,398]

1 hour ago, poita said:

Hard to know what to make of that effort. We looked dead tired in the fourth quarter against Adelaide, and I was afraid that we would struggle to get up for the Brisbane game. Ideally we would have had a bye, then played Brisbane next Thursday ahead of the Anzac Eve game. Nevertheless, that wasn't to be, and we needed to find a way to get minds and bodies right for last night. On that count we failed dismally.

The lack of effort from the midfielders collectively was appalling. Gawn's ruck work was all over the shop, but at least he was prepared to follow up and have a real crack at ground level. We got next to nothing from Petracca and Viney when the game was alive, and Oliver clearly needs a lengthy rest. Sparrow remains a disappointment, although his effort is generally okay, and Rivers was probably the best of a sorry bunch. The reality is that we were beaten in the midfield against Port, probably broke level with an average group against Adelaide and were belted by Brisbane. We have many issues in there, one of which is our lack of depth (as I pointed out prior to the season).

Langdon works hard but really doesn't contribute much. Windsor will be a really good player in a year or two, but ran around like a headless chook for most of last night. Billings does some nice things amid a deluge of ordinary ones. I don't want Hunter back in the side, but he'll almost certainly return if he plays well tomorrow.

May and Lever were disappointing early, but stood up well after quarter time under constant pressure. McDonald was excellent. McVee had a poor game, and Howes clearly shouldn't be playing at this level (and wouldn't if Bowey and Hore were available). Salem getting injured early was sub-optimal, but his inability to string meaningful stretches of football together makes him a liability for a (supposed) premiership contender. I thought Woewodin battled away okay, but was clearly out of position and out of his depth. Overall to get away with conceding 82 points in those circumstances was a pretty good effort.

We didn't make life at all easy for our forwards, but only Chandler could hold his head high. Three goals in three quarters is just abysmal. Tholstrup clearly wasn't ready, but still contributed more than Laurie would have. Van Rooyen has regressed significantly, and Brown and Petty clearly can't play in the same forward line. I have no idea why those three don't run at the football, but instead wait for the ball to be kicked on top of their heads. I'd almost rather we cleared the entire 50m arc out and allowed Fritsch and Chandler to operate in there with space in front of them, while the three talls warm the bench.

Hopefully its as simple as resting some tired minds and bodies, and we will be in better shape for Richmond and Geelong. We really need to win both of those games, because Carlton off a five day break will be tough. Our woeful lack of depth and some boneheaded list management decisions are really starting to cause issues, and nothing other than a big clean out at year end will fix this. 

 

 

 

So usually coming inside 50 after stagnant ball movement there is a defender sitting infront of the goal square ~15-20m out. Our forwards usually 2 or 3 of em in the goal square with the opponents.

Why wouldn't you lead into both pockets and the 3rd forward come straight at the defender. Lead hard and make the defender sweat once you place the ball there. Doing so would draw more free kicks then not (from holding, blocks, chopping etc), your likely to create some panic in defenders. 

That's one thing, there are so many plays, patterns you could do. Why don't we do this? it is U12 forward craft. We take 1-2 contested marks every 3-4 games with the current method of long bomb and hope. It just doesn't work and yet 4 years we persist with this [censored]. Drives me insane. 

People wonder why some go after Goody and the coaching staff. its for these reasons. These are the cracks that get covered with wins. We don't need a generational forward to change this - it is just basic tactics. 

[TassieDevil 97]

Answorth needs to be cited for his sledge on Petty imitating he was crying - conduct unbecoming/ bringing the game into disrepute

[TassieDevil 97]

I'm glad I had the foresight to turn of TV at half time and get some early shut eye.

[At the break of Gawn 3,501]

1 hour ago, rpfc said:

Can’t win when your midfield gets smashed like that, and outworked around the ground.

We will find out 12 days whether it’s an anomaly.

No we won’t. Richmond have an injury list as long as the Nile. We'll find out against Geelong and Carlton.

[Brenno 230]

Lots of unfair potting of our Fwds, umpires and young defenders  going on in here. 

The team across the board looked very flat, however we lost this game due to the worst midfield performance we have dished up since at least the start of the Goodwin era. Our big three all had shockingly bad games and should cop the majority of the blame.

They were not alone of course but Oliver, Trac, Viney and Gawn are our engine, without them at least running at 80% the rest of team has no chance of fulfilling there own roles. We can carry a sub par game from 1 of them here and there, perhaps even a  so-so performance from 2 of them, but when all three dish up what they did last night we would be lucky to beat any team. 

I know Fantasy scores are not always the best judge of a player impact but these stats are damning:

Petrraca had 59 SC points, lowest since 2018. For context last year he averaged 119 per game. 

Oliver has had 62 and 65 Points the past 2 weeks, both games ranked in his worst 4 games since his debut year. Averaged 121 last year and 127 in 2022. Cleary hampered and should not be playing. 

Jack somehow managed to get 75 but most of his score came when the game was already lost and was still 30sih points below his season average. 

These 3 are champions of our club and I am sure they will bounce back. However, for all three to have poor games to this level suggests to me that this wasn't just Brisbane being good.

My guess is the team was cooked from the get go and the bye could not have come at a better time for us. 

The Richmond game will show us a hell of a lot. 

 

[DeeZee 6,733]

Although they get all the credit for the win and well deserved because their pressure and intensity was through the roof.

We lost by 22 in the end , losing a key distributor early in Salem and being without Kozzie who would usually save a couple of goals with his pressure acts and kick a couple himself which is 24 points, and being in form too , I reckon he is that important to us.

Trac couldn’t really cope with the hard tag, and with Clarry well down with his injury we were ripe for the picking by a very committed side desperately wanting to win for Lachie Neale and getting their season back on track.

I really hope we can come up with a plan and return the favour next time we meet them up there as they’ve had our measure the last two seasons.

[rpfc 27,476]

26 minutes ago, At the break of Gawn said:

No we won’t. Richmond have an injury list as long as the Nile. We'll find out against Geelong and Carlton.

What if we lose, ATBOG? 

Yea that is your acronym.

ATBOG

[Binmans PA 26,123]

I'm not sure I've seen it mentioned in this thread yet, but not having Kozzy for the way we defend and try to turn the ball over or maintain territory, cannot be overstated enough.

Our forward system relies on his explosive pace.

[Billy 1,966]

Couldn’t believe how much we fumbled & how easily tackles were broken, very in Melbourne like

Men against boys stuff

Credit to Brisbane l suppose 

[Demon Dynasty 15,507]

42 minutes ago, Binmans PA said:

I'm not sure I've seen it mentioned in this thread yet, but not having Kozzy for the way we defend and try to turn the ball over or maintain territory, cannot be overstated enough.

Our forward system relies on his explosive pace.

Its been mentioned.

Putting this one down to...

👉🏼  Koz

👉🏼  The Clarry stuffed finger factor (SFF)

👉🏼  Salem going off early at 7% game time (one rotation down from the get go)

👉🏼  Mental fatigue

👉🏼  Some physical fatigue

👉🏼  'Potentially' the fact that we continued with a plus one behind the ball and didn't even up the numbers around the contest or if we did it was too little too late.

👉🏼 Brissy's mega pressure and clean ball use, bounce of the ball as well

Can't be sure about any of the above though of course.  Mere speculation.

Brissy brought mega pressure for the first three quarters while ours was well below AFL average* (approx 185-188 on pressure rating) aside from the last quarter.

* @wheeloratings

Edited April 12 by Demon Dynasty

[Binmans PA 26,123]

2 hours ago, rpfc said:

Can’t win when your midfield gets smashed like that, and outworked around the ground.

We will find out 12 days whether it’s an anomaly.

It has to be an anomaly given it literally hasn't happened since 2020.

[58er 5,608]

1 hour ago, Brenno said:

Lots of unfair potting of our Fwds, umpires and young defenders  going on in here. 

The team across the board looked very flat, however we lost this game due to the worst midfield performance we have dished up since at least the start of the Goodwin era. Our big three all had shockingly bad games and should cop the majority of the blame.

They were not alone of course but Oliver, Trac, Viney and Gawn are our engine, without them at least running at 80% the rest of team has no chance of fulfilling there own roles. We can carry a sub par game from 1 of them here and there, perhaps even a  so-so performance from 2 of them, but when all three dish up what they did last night we would be lucky to beat any team. 

I know Fantasy scores are not always the best judge of a player impact but these stats are damning:

Petrraca had 59 SC points, lowest since 2018. For context last year he averaged 119 per game. 

Oliver has had 62 and 65 Points the past 2 weeks, both games ranked in his worst 4 games since his debut year. Averaged 121 last year and 127 in 2022. Cleary hampered and should not be playing. 

Jack somehow managed to get 75 but most of his score came when the game was already lost and was still 30sih points below his season average. 

These 3 are champions of our club and I am sure they will bounce back. However, for all three to have poor games to this level suggests to me that this wasn't just Brisbane being good.

My guess is the team was cooked from the get go and the bye could not have come at a better time for us. 

The Richmond game will show us a hell of a lot. 

 

Most IMO centred around our drained presence due to the Adelaide games.

4 games in 19 days and 3 in 13 did affect the result although the Lions did play well and we were unlucky they hit form last week vs North. 

[Bring-Back-Powell 13,213]

Not that affects us but Charlie Cameron got a week for his tackle on Lever.

I reckon they can argue that down to low.

[Bring-Back-Powell 13,213]

1 hour ago, Demon Dynasty said:

Its been mentioned.

Putting this one down to...

👉🏼  Koz

👉🏼  The Clarry stuffed finger factor (SFF)

👉🏼  Salem going off early at 7% game time (one rotation down from the get go)

👉🏼  Mental fatigue

👉🏼  Some physical fatigue

👉🏼  'Potentially' the fact that we continued with a plus one behind the ball and didn't even up the numbers around the contest or if we did it was too little too late.

👉🏼 Brissy's mega pressure and clean ball use, bounce of the ball as well

Can't be sure about any of the above though of course.  Mere speculation.

Brissy brought mega pressure for the first three quarters while ours was well below AFL average* (approx 185-188 on pressure rating) aside from the last quarter.

* @wheeloratings

Brisbane's pressure was the number one factor and then you can work your way backwards with your factors which are all correct.

I can't recall a game which we've been pinged for holding the ball as much as last night and it happened from start to end. They would not allow us any easy possession whatsoever and inevitably stopped any promising MFC chain until the last quarter.

I would be surprised if we encounter such high pressure again for the rest of the year. And I would be surprised if Brisbane bring anything near that pressure next week.

 

Edited April 12 by Bring-Back-Powell

[greenwaves 209]

We're in a good position at 4-2.  You don't have to be 6-0 at this stage of the season.

[Jaded No More 57,964]

6 minutes ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

Not that affects us but Charlie Cameron got a week for his tackle on Lever.

I reckon they can argue that down to low.

How, when it’s been made very clear that potential to cause a head injury is now automatically graded medium? He dump him into the ground. Sparrow got a week for a very similar thing last year against the Hawks. 

[Demonland 65,200]

 

[Demonland 65,200]

 

[loges 6,037]

7 hours ago, H_T said:

Sorry, but Max was not “great”

He may have had 51 hit outs - but a large chunk of percentage of these were either straight to or sharked by a Lions player. There was more movement and positive signs from him in the last quarter. But the game was over at 3/4 time. And Lions has already put the cue in the rack.

our best plyer by far

[dees189227 10,783]

5 hours ago, whatwhat say what said:

it's moments like exactly that where i think for all his undoubted qualities trac is not a 'smart' footballer

As soon as he did that dumb high kick, which is like a tackle 5 nrl kick, I looked at him & he just threw his head back. I have no idea why he did that kick

[Demon Dynasty 15,507]

Surprise surprise... Clarry's off for finger surgery

Edited April 12 by Demon Dynasty