CASEY: Rd 03 vs Port Melbourne

[picket fence 15,163]

So Dazz, I would be intrigued as to what u make of Jeffo??

[KingDingAling 3,596]

5 hours ago, Garbo said:

VFL app says Laurie had 20 tackles that has got to be some kind of record 

Having so many tackles is a massive string to his bow. We really need to apply pressure inside the contest, currently, it’s all left to Sparrow. 

[Demonland 64,908]

[Demon Dynasty 15,447]

15 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

I have no idea why considering we were the very first clubs ever in the AFL to pioneer the Irish experiment, we are realistically the only club now not willing to explore this as an option. 

Yep its dissapointing that we invest so much effort and time / space into players 'like' Bradtke et al who've had zero exposure to AFL but choose to ignore looking into options who already have some pedigree in a very similar game offshore.

Why not widen our horizon and do both and then filter towards the option that you feel has the most upside potential?

Edited April 14 by Demon Dynasty

[DiscoStu17 138]

Was Highmore playing on Jeffo or Schache? He’s a pretty reasonable defender that I thought was hard done by the Saints.

Jeffo was marking everything against the dogs so I’d say it’s just a natural part of getting to a higher level more consistently.

They’ll all be good, bad and absolutely shocking at times because they’ve all played just a handful of games.

 

[picket fence 15,163]

And add another Bye this week what a bloody joke of a competitiom!

[Fat Tony 4,408]

22 minutes ago, picket fence said:

And add another Bye this week what a bloody joke of a competitiom!

They play on Anzac Eve, which works better from a MFC perspective.

[Young Angus 305]

(did I read people having a go at Jeffo and other kids??)

Jeffo is a kid, give him a break.  Anyone slagging off a kid for playing a game...and don't forget this is a game...ought to have a good look at themselves.  Not that I imagine any of them are silly enough to read what punters write on forums about them but on the off chance that they were, that could really do a number on their mental health.  Perhaps go a bit easier on them until they get to the big leagues at least.  I know it's elite and so on and so forth but it's a game, and these young guys are kids, don't sling too much mud at them until they get a bit older and more emotionally mature perhaps.

I'm excited to see what Jeffo can do on the big stage eventually.  Keep the kid's confidence up and he will keep trying and  wanting to get better.  OUR MAN JEFFERSON!!!

[Roost it far 6,100]

3 minutes ago, Young Angus said:

(did I read people having a go at Jeffo and other kids??)

Jeffo is a kid, give him a break.  Anyone slagging off a kid for playing a game...and don't forget this is a game...ought to have a good look at themselves.  Not that I imagine any of them are silly enough to read what punters write on forums about them but on the off chance that they were, that could really do a number on their mental health.  Perhaps go a bit easier on them until they get to the big leagues at least.  I know it's elite and so on and so forth but it's a game, and these young guys are kids, don't sling too much mud at them until they get a bit older and more emotionally mature perhaps.

I'm excited to see what Jeffo can do on the big stage eventually.  Keep the kid's confidence up and he will keep trying and  wanting to get better.  OUR MAN JEFFERSON!!!

Since when was AFL just a game? It’s long been a ruthless business. No one’s slagging him off. Several on here doubt he’ll make it but no one has said anything negative about his personality.

[dazzledavey36 48,753]

2 hours ago, Demon Dynasty said:

Yep its dissapointing that we invest so much effort and time / space into players 'like' Bradtke et al who've had zero exposure to AFL but choose to ignore looking into options who already have some pedigree in a very similar game offshore.

Why not widen our horizon and do both and then filter towards the option that you feel has the most upside potential?

I agree wholeheartedly and have been very vocal about this in the past.

We've been so fixated in going after raw ex basketball athlete's that have little to no football IQ and it shows in these VFL performances. 

No more Bradtke's and the Farris-White's of the world. 

I am in no way being critical of our recruiting team because they've got the credits in the bank, but I think if we are wanting to get developing talls through, put the attention into one's that are also genuine footballers like Will Verrall who looks like a solid prospect that will play games this year.

[Young Angus 305]

1 hour ago, Roost it far said:

Since when was AFL just a game? It’s long been a ruthless business. No one’s slagging him off. Several on here doubt he’ll make it but no one has said anything negative about his personality.

I do know what you mean too, I guess I'd just hate to see my kid in the very early stages of what they hope to be a long career with online comments saying that he didn't have what it takes when in reality he just might need a little more time.  It is ruthless and business and there's lots of money on the line but it is a game at the end of the day...I take your point though and I'm sure none of the players ever think of it as "just a game" either.

[DeeSpencer 23,134]

20 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

I agree wholeheartedly and have been very vocal about this in the past.

We've been so fixated in going after raw ex basketball athlete's that have little to no football IQ and it shows in these VFL performances. 

No more Bradtke's and the Farris-White's of the world. 

I am in no way being critical of our recruiting team because they've got the credits in the bank, but I think if we are wanting to get developing talls through, put the attention into one's that are also genuine footballers like Will Verrall who looks like a solid prospect that will play games this year.

No point comparing Cat B to regular players tho. To me there are 4 main types of Cat B rookie and how I'd rank them:

1. Genuine former footballer with a proper pedigree of under age success who've gone to another sport for 3+ years. Alex Keath, James O'Donnell and I'm not sure who else even fits this category - Wil Parker to the pies? This is the dream. But they are incredibly rare and all 18 clubs will be spying the same names on the rare occasion a proper young footballer goes to another sport.

2. Former NGA/Academy player - think Andy MW for us. This is probably the best common use of it. You get genuine footballers who are in the draft system. But our academy stocks seem pretty ordinary so generally getting a guy who's worth any kind of list spot is rare and often times we'll just draft them straight up. Northern clubs have an advantage here having far bigger talent pools and more money invested and even the WA and SA clubs with a stronger indigenous contingent. Should we have cat B listed Riak Andrew or Orlando Turner? I've got no idea but I'd suggest not, but we need more of our academy guys progressing to good Coates league form and state under 18's level.

3. The Irish. The hit rate is still very low. Geelong have 2 or 3 good ones but Tuohy was developed elsewhere from a bunch of guys Carlton tried. McKenna and Keane are at new clubs are going home, so that's a big risk. I like Cal Brown, I don't love Nash even if he's carved out a lot of games.

4. Basketball/other sport without a proper junior Aussie rules pedigree. Be they rucks or any other position. I'd have no issue with keeping on churning through rucks hoping to find premiership players like Mason Cox, Mike Pyke, Mark Blicavs. They are all as useful as any Irish guy to play since Tadhg Kennelly. And rucks are hard to find, most of them drafted as footballers in late rounds or rookies are no good either. I'm less upset that Bradkte and KFW are no good than I am that the King's and the other big lad from Ormond were bad and we used real main or rookie list spots on them.

TLDR: I'd really consider an Irish program but I suspect history says you have to try 3-4 to get 1 half decent player and the best guys are probably going to Brisbane, Geelong or Sydney who have been trying it more than other clubs. And it's entirely possible you do an Essendon - grab a bunch of them, get a good one then lose him for nothing.

And I'd keep turning over the rucks with a realistic expectation they are complete dice rolls on very tall non footballers. But the main investment could be just trying to get luckier with the academy by spending if possible, with the proviso being you're just developing players for other clubs if you make top 40 guys.

 

[demon3165 1,918]

Young players come from a system where expectations sometimes exceed their ability, but in my view players can nurture and grow given the short amount of time they are given at AFL level but the one non negotiable aspect is when it's your turn to go into a contest or chase an opponent you go hard.  

This has been Schache's problem seems like a nice guy but lacks intensity at the contest and that has been his downfall at the lions, dogs and now us and unfortunately Jefferson looks a bit like him at the contest.

I also believe that the under 18's competition should be scrapped and the under 19's competition replacing it as I think they are drafted to early, an extra year means they can concentrate on finishing school before they get into the system.

[Axis of Bob 10,219]

The hit rate on category B rookies is very low, but the hit rate on the dregs of under 18/VFL/country league players is also low.

Recruiters aren’t trying to draft VFL players, they’re drafting potential AFL players. There are heaps of guys who can play VFL but have a ceiling that is almost worthless at AFL level, so drafting any of them is a waste of time and resources. Recruiters can be pretty certain what they’ll get with those players, with the range of potential outcomes being very narrow. At least drafting a 206cm kid who hasn’t played much before exposed you to a very wide range of outcomes, some of which might include being a valuable AFL player.

Whilst the average category B rookie will be much worse than a state league player, the likelihood that they’ll be a valuable AFL player is probably significantly higher. Jason Taylor isn’t a VFL recruiter, he’s an AFL recruiter.

[rjay 23,912]

38 minutes ago, demon3165 said:

I also believe that the under 18's competition should be scrapped and the under 19's competition replacing it as I think they are drafted to early, an extra year means they can concentrate on finishing school before they get into the system.

I think the draw on talent across all sports make that near impossible now.

...and, should you hold players like Reid back another year when they are clearly ready to step up for the benefit of others like Jeffo who are clearly not.

 

 

 

[demon3165 1,918]

7 minutes ago, rjay said:

I think the draw on talent across all sports make that near impossible now.

...and, should you hold players like Reid back another year when they are clearly ready to step up for the benefit of others like Jeffo who are clearly not.

 

 

 

There is a fine line but a vast majority of kids coming into the system are not ready for the grind of AFL there are some exceptions and that will always be but in general yes I would hold them back an extra year I think the kids would benefit from it emotionally and physically, I know I am in the minority on this but it's my view.... 

[DeeSpencer 23,134]

1 hour ago, Axis of Bob said:

The hit rate on category B rookies is very low, but the hit rate on the dregs of under 18/VFL/country league players is also low.

Recruiters aren’t trying to draft VFL players, they’re drafting potential AFL players. There are heaps of guys who can play VFL but have a ceiling that is almost worthless at AFL level, so drafting any of them is a waste of time and resources. Recruiters can be pretty certain what they’ll get with those players, with the range of potential outcomes being very narrow. At least drafting a 206cm kid who hasn’t played much before exposed you to a very wide range of outcomes, some of which might include being a valuable AFL player.

Whilst the average category B rookie will be much worse than a state league player, the likelihood that they’ll be a valuable AFL player is probably significantly higher. Jason Taylor isn’t a VFL recruiter, he’s an AFL recruiter.

Correct and you can only compare Cat B to other cat B. 

Honestly cat B should probably be replaced by giving each state league club scholarship funds to develop a bunch of athletes from other sports, Ireland, the NGAs at a semi pro level, as well as the best guys who miss the draft through bad luck not lack of talent.
 

Some kind of system where you give students and trade apprentices some form of extra payment/allowance and a couple of fitness and skill development sessions above the VFL norm. 

I’d rather give 100 guys 20 grand extra to work on their game than 20 guys getting 100 grand.

[picket fence 15,163]

9 hours ago, Roost it far said:

Since when was AFL just a game? It’s long been a ruthless business. No one’s slagging him off. Several on here doubt he’ll make it but no one has said anything negative about his personality.

U are kidding, plenty on here are Totally slagging him of! He has just turned 20. Really good young bloke who can and will learn. Get a grip!

[picket fence 15,163]

22 hours ago, picket fence said:

So Dazz, I would be intrigued as to what u make of Jeffo??

Hello Dazz are u there??

[DeeSpencer 23,134]

On 15/04/2024 at 13:12, DeeSpencer said:

1. Genuine former footballer with a proper pedigree of under age success who've gone to another sport for 3+ years. Alex Keath, James O'Donnell and I'm not sure who else even fits this category - Wil Parker to the pies? This is the dream. But they are incredibly rare and all 18 clubs will be spying the same names on the rare occasion a proper young footballer goes to another sport.

 

And here comes one who could fit the bill -

AFL clubs lining up to sign former BBL bowler Zak Evans as Category B rookie

 

[deanox 8,605]

6 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

Correct and you can only compare Cat B to other cat B. 

Honestly cat B should probably be replaced by giving each state league club scholarship funds to develop a bunch of athletes from other sports, Ireland, the NGAs at a semi pro level, as well as the best guys who miss the draft through bad luck not lack of talent.
 

Some kind of system where you give students and trade apprentices some form of extra payment/allowance and a couple of fitness and skill development sessions above the VFL norm. 

I’d rather give 100 guys 20 grand extra to work on their game than 20 guys getting 100 grand.

Those 100 guys are gonna go do something else though, not take the 20k and need to train 3 nights per week, plus do their own gym program plus play weekends.

 

VFL has a salary cap of about $220k (standalone, with 28 main players and 12 development players) and $110k (for AFL club aligned). They get paid bugger all, to have any chance of developing them they need to be full time.

 

[defuture15 844]

Any chance that Mac Andrew is still on our radar?

[monoccular 16,072]

10 hours ago, Axis of Bob said:

The hit rate on category B rookies is very low, but the hit rate on the dregs of under 18/VFL/country league players is also low.

Recruiters aren’t trying to draft VFL players, they’re drafting potential AFL players. There are heaps of guys who can play VFL but have a ceiling that is almost worthless at AFL level, so drafting any of them is a waste of time and resources. Recruiters can be pretty certain what they’ll get with those players, with the range of potential outcomes being very narrow. At least drafting a 206cm kid who hasn’t played much before exposed you to a very wide range of outcomes, some of which might include being a valuable AFL player.

Whilst the average category B rookie will be much worse than a state league player, the likelihood that they’ll be a valuable AFL player is probably significantly higher. Jason Taylor isn’t a VFL recruiter, he’s an AFL recruiter.

Can’t stand the guy, but was Collingwood premiership ruckman 🕶️a cat B rookie with zero knowledge of footy when recruited?  Very much a speculative pick. 

[picket fence 15,163]

16 hours ago, defuture15 said:

Any chance that Mac Andrew is still on our radar?

Last I knew he was drafted by GWS! 

[whatwhat say what 18,944]

12 minutes ago, picket fence said:

Last I knew he was drafted by GWS! 

wrong northern franchise picket - mac was drafted by gc17 not gw$