POSTGAME: Rd 22 vs Carlton

[binman 38,745]

5 minutes ago, Webber said:

This! Feeling your anger and frustration binman (as was Goody in his presser, but as ever, he was masterful in his restraint). And for all those who say, “you can’t blame the umpiring for the loss, if we’d played better we would have won, DESERVED to win even”, that’s a wholly different point. The umpires in the last quarter made it an uneven playing field. Fact. Bad umpiring changed the course and the result of last night’s game. Fact. No different to the Adelaide shambles in ‘21, for which the AFL issued a mea culpa afterwards. Will they do it this time? No chance. And what’s been done to fix this shambles, what’s REALLY been done? A fourth umpire? It’s just added 33% more confusion and inconsistency. Spare me! Not full time professionals, not better technology. Nothing. It kills our game. KILLS IT. This result could affect our flag chances this year. It’s that simple. 

Agree with the fourth umpire creating confusion

And it creates a cop out opportunity. The umpires are now regularly looking at other umpired to see if they ate going to call something.

The perfect example was the rivers sling tackle. That was text book and a free every day of the week.

Dees fans started howling when it looked like it wasn't going to get paid. 

And when it finally was, the blues fans around me went ballistic.

Summed things up perfectly  - a free, that was 100% obvious, was paid but BOTH sets of fans were aggrieved.

I'm not even sure who ended up paying it.

I'm going to watch the replay tonight, and I'll spew if the commentators don't call our the appalling umpiring the way they did foe the two over the boundary like call in the cats pies game.

[binman 38,745]

5 minutes ago, bandicoot said:

You are joking if you think Carlton can sustain this into the finals and win it from 5th. This game was their final. Wouldn’t surprise  me they were to lose to Gold Coast next week

Exactly.

There is a reason teams don't win the flag from outside the top 4 (yes  tes, the dogs)

Funny you should say that about the suns game. Thought the same thing.

The suns to make their 9 point lineihas profit written all over it.

[Webber 10,174]

13 minutes ago, binman said:

I'm not even sure who ended up paying it.

Pretty sure Razor Ray was the closest (very close) ump. He wasn’t interested, then got the call from ump further back….hence the delay. How his whistle wasn’t in his mouth immediately, only he could know. Mind you, it was open slather on pretty much everything for RR all night. Crazy stuff. 

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

26 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Plus we simply don't adjust to the wet.

Looking forward to a sunny spring September..

The MCG needs the bye round.

[BDA 20,291]

36 minutes ago, Jibroni said:

I watched the game with a Carlton mate last night and TBH there were a lot of frees both ways that were not paid. There were 34 paid on the night but there should have been more. Buy then again with the physicality shown would that have compromised the style of game?

As bad as the umpiring was I still think the better team won which is what we need to address. And as for Petraccas non goal I'm happy to take Marchbanks declaration that he touched it:

Caleb Marchbank on @abcsport

: bit of a heart stopper but nice to get the win. I just turned around and thought ‘please touch this, please touch this’. And fortunately I did. And the umpire saw it that way. #AFLBluesDees

I reckon Marchbank is telling fibs.

[leave it to deever 15,951]

1 hour ago, binman said:

Forget the result, it was simply nuts how many clear holding the ball frees were not paid - for both sides, but we copped it worse.

It's a joke.

Tx Binners.

Yes forget Jvr being legged and Tracs point/ goal, this was the most telling and annoying thing for me.

We got maybe one htb free kick and Carlton got quite a few.

I have no idea why the umpires were so blatantly inconsistent.

I also wouldn't mind seeing some sort of rule change where the third deliberate out of bounds in a row gets a fifty m as well.

[Abyssal 259]

10 hours ago, Jack7 said:

The soft call should have been a goal and check to see if it was touched

 

 

 

 

 

Agree.

Perhaps a better method would be for a Goal Umpire to refer WITHOUT giving a Soft signal.

Then, if it was an ‘Umpires Call’,( insufficient evidence )  the Goal Umpire would make his call after the Arc.

[fr_ap 2,148]

35 minutes ago, bandicoot said:

You are joking if you think Carlton can sustain this into the finals and win it from 5th. This game was their final. Wouldn’t surprise  me they were to lose to Gold Coast next week

I said 'if' they play that way they can go all the way. I didn't say they would. 

That said, they're doing it without a number of their best players who should return to rotate the team, and had a mid year lull period that should have them relatively fresh. 

It's not the physical component that will get them. Mentally they're beyond humming at the moment and it all came from an off-site honesty camp held by the players. They havent lost since. Their ability to pressure isn't an amazing physical feat - it's driven by how they're feeling, their focus, presence and understanding of roles. 

You're just coping with a half acknowledgement. "Yeah they're good, but it won't last". Surely it can't. Surely? 

You don't know, none of us do. 

They'll beat Gold coast. No doubt in my mind.

[TeamPlayedFine39 8,178]

Felling a little flat this morning but I believe we saw the best two teams in the league, on currently form.

It’ll take a massive effort to beat either of us in the finals.

 

[binman 38,745]

24 minutes ago, Clint Bizkit said:

The MCG needs the bye round.

I have to say, the surface looked pretty distressed.

[binman 38,745]

7 minutes ago, Abyssal said:

Agree.

Perhaps a better method would be for a Goal Umpire to refer WITHOUT giving a Soft signal.

Then, if it was an ‘Umpires Call’,( insufficient evidence )  the Goal Umpire would make his call after the Arc.

Exactly.

A total no brainer.

[sam6172 98]

Just my 2 cents. I don't know what game a lot of people were watching?

Melbournes defence was superb, no one else in the comp withstands that first quarter. Carlton would have been 8 goals up. They had it locked in but couldn't get through.

A lot of people saying all we did is bomb it long into the 50? That's because Carlton was set up brilliantly and that's all we could do. Did you all miss the 100 times they did the same because we blocked them off? There's a reason it was a low scoring game and that's because both teams defence was on point. 

No leads in the last 2 mins someone said? How do you lead when there is 28 players in the 50? Lead to where? What space? 

Melbourne actually played very well, unfortunately for us, so did Carlton. Best 2 teams going at the moment for mine. 

Skill errors and possibly selection are what lost us the game but not much they can do when the best forward we've had for a while breaks his foot the week before. 

Keep tinkering Goody. C'mon boys, you've got this!

[david_neitz_is_my_dad 3,930]

Did Clayton Oliver do a long kick all night? Can’t recall seeing one and looked more focussed on hand balling due to doubts about his hammy perhaps

[KLV 1,664]

53 minutes ago, bandicoot said:

You are joking if you think Carlton can sustain this into the finals and win it from 5th. This game was their final. Wouldn’t surprise  me they were to lose to Gold Coast next week

I sincerely hope you’re right 

[dazzledavey36 48,952]

31 minutes ago, Clint Bizkit said:

The MCG needs the bye round.

Ira probably the first time where I genuinely thought the surface looked below standard. 

[Cheap Seats 3,303]

1 hour ago, binman said:

The wet exacerbates our biggest weakness - too many poor kicks. Even our best players are average kicks.

And our best kicks -  Salem and bowey - both kicked very poorly last night.

I got there at 4:30. Rained non stop until about 7. So the ground was super soggy.

Then during the game there was a misty raini falling for almost the entire game.

Made handling tricky, and there was no chance for the ground to drain.

The blues def handled the conditions better.

This, if we can't be clean and hit targets in finals, don't worry about it....

We have a couple weeks to work out the balance with Oliver back, but the awkward truth is the midfield was better balanced with Oliver out.

What does that mean? I think we carry too many one dimensial players in the middle, and our Forward line is not strong enough to overwhelm opponents.

Grundy/Gawn are a great ruck combo, buf both are not forwards and it is hurting our balance.

I think Petty out hurt the balance as well, can hit a pack, take a grab and kick a goal. We lacked that last night.

 

Edited August 12, 2023 by Cheap Seats

[The heart beats true 16,375]

The biggest 2 criticisms of the game for us to work on:

The centre clearance work in the first 4 minutes of the last quarter was the difference in the game. We get that right and we win by a few goals.

Bowey gifted them a goal by panicking right in front in the 3rd. He needs to straight line the ball more. He’s got to develop his strength so he can take the heat. He’s a good kid, just needs more confidence in his body.

[buck_nekkid 5,511]

Carlton set up really well in defence, and gave us a dose of our own medicine.  We had so many poor kicks and fumbles - conditions? Pressure? Simply below par.  We lost the territory battle for most of the night, and when we did have it in our half, had little structure in front of  the ball.

Umpiring was disastrous, but enough of that already. Good to get minutes into the ginger ninja, who seemed off point in the first half.  Centre work was awful almost all night.  hate to see them waltz forward time after time.

Some big games today at Casey could see things become interesting at selection. Not a great game by the Dees, but we did hold them to 60 points.  We lost that game in the first five minutes of the last quarter.

[Binmans PA 26,288]

Sure, we'd prefer it dry because it brings our interceptors into the game more, but I maintain the wet weather query on us is overblown and wrong.

IMV, it was a combination of us being a little off and then Carlton's pressure causing fumbles and we didn't deal with it.

Our mids coughed the ball up on the ground and our backs lost key ground balls higher up the field, or simply panicked - think the goal Bowser gave up from panic at ground level.

The one strength the weather does impact is Gawn's ability in the air. That would be the major argument IMO of wet weather undermining our game.

Edited August 13, 2023 by Binmans PA

[DeeMee 740]

I can understand Umpires missing frees and making mistakes, it is the nature of the game.

I cannot understand umpires looking directly at blatant frees right in front of them and not paying them. They know the rules. We were shafted last night.

[leave it to deever 15,951]

1 hour ago, binman said:

Dees fans started howling when it looked like it wasn't going to get paid. 

And when it finally was, the blues fans around me went bal

Of course. They had good calls from the umps all night. And when they got legitimately called out, it was all boos.

[Binmans PA 26,288]

6 minutes ago, buck_nekkid said:

Centre work was awful almost all night.  hate to see them waltz forward time after time.

Agree, our centre work was poor all night, but aside from the first 7 mins of the last quarter where they scored their 3 goals, 2 practically directly from stoppage, certainly the second goal of the quarter was straight out the front of the stoppage.

But these were actually the first goals from stoppage from either team all night, so I think you're hyperbolising. 

[wizardinoz 2,049]

2 minutes ago, DeeMee said:

I can understand Umpires missing frees and making mistakes, it is the nature of the game.

I cannot understand umpires looking directly at blatant frees right in front of them and not paying them. They know the rules. We were shafted last night.

Paddy Dow caught with the ball twice with incorrect disposal & play on. Disgusted with the one sided umpiring when we laid a decent tackle.

[DeeMee 740]

My fear and looking more probable is playing a great season, finishing third and playing first final against Lions in Brisbane. 

[layzie 29,129]

1 hour ago, Webber said:

This! Feeling your anger and frustration binman (as was Goody in his presser, but as ever, he was masterful in his restraint). And for all those who say, “you can’t blame the umpiring for the loss, if we’d played better we would have won, DESERVED to win even”, that’s a wholly different point. The umpires in the last quarter made it an uneven playing field. Fact. Bad umpiring changed the course and the result of last night’s game. Fact. No different to the Adelaide shambles in ‘21, for which the AFL issued a mea culpa afterwards. Will they do it this time? No chance. And what’s been done to fix this shambles, what’s REALLY been done? A fourth umpire? It’s just added 33% more confusion and inconsistency. Spare me! Not full time professionals, not better technology. Nothing. It kills our game. KILLS IT. This result could affect our flag chances this year. It’s that simple. 

At 17 free kicks each the case for the umpiring making it uneven really makes it sound like we needed free kicks to win the game. If that's our M.O for trying to win on the MCG in the wet with multiple players out for the opposition then I'm not confident in those conditions come finals at all. Yes there were some terrible frees missed late but things get let go in the wet as well.

It is a different point though I agree. I've watched that last kick many times now and there's every chance it is a goal. Can't get into the head of the goal umpire and anyone who can definitely tell from the ARC that it wasn't touched just ask yourself how you're so sure. A ton of Carlton fans around me were adamant it was touched but come on here and everyone is convinced it's not. It's like a divorce and hearing both sides of the story and then cutting it in half. The touched call was innocent until proven guilty and as soon as the soft call was announced I sat right down. It didn't matter what likely happened.