PREGAME: Rd 20 vs Richmond

[whatwhat say what 22,757]

i wonder if goodwin will go back to his stated word, and play petty forward if they're bringing him straight back in

tomlinson had a few 'oh my god' moments, but he wasn't on his pat malone along with may, and played well enough to hold his spot - one thing going against him is richmond are not an overly tall forward structure

jj and sparrow looked knackered but i'm going to choose to blame the long break between competitive games

wouldn't surprise me at all if hibberd was the in for tomlinson, and petty came in to play forward, presuming bowey is right to go, i'd go:

OUT: tomlinson, brown
IN: hibberd, petty

smith stays as sub

if bowey is no good then tomlinson probably holds his spot for mine

[Kick_It_To_Pickett 3,293]

What is with the Petty obsession? He proved he could not cut it as a forward and his form this year as a back has been very scratchy. Constantly run down in the backline due to lack of awareness. Can't play 1 on 1. As a forward he hasn't been able to compete 1 on 1 and doesn't bring the ball to ground nearly as effectively as Brown. It's really funny how some players are harshly judged and others seem to be viewed through rose coloured glasses. 

[Diamond_Jim 12,588]

4 minutes ago, old dee said:

Not sure it has Deemee. I would not be surprised if Petty has another weeks rest. Finals are not far away now. We need him cherry ripe. 

Could be correct OD

Maybe consider resting Max over one of the next two matches and rucking Grundy. As I recall the Tiger's main ruck is out

The bus is certainly not firing on all cylinders and there's not many matches left to tune up all the parts

[whatwhat say what 22,757]

2 minutes ago, Kick_It_To_Pickett said:

What is with the Petty obsession? He proved he could not cut it as a forward and his form this year as a back has been very scratchy. Constantly run down in the backline due to lack of awareness. Can't play 1 on 1. As a forward he hasn't been able to compete 1 on 1 and doesn't bring the ball to ground nearly as effectively as Brown. It's really funny how some players are harshly judged and others seem to be viewed through rose coloured glasses. 

for mine, prior to his injury his form as a forward was more encouraging than his form down back

he presented constantly and brought the ball to ground if he didn't grab it, which is what is the mandate is for our structure

[Nasher 33,616]

1 minute ago, Kick_It_To_Pickett said:

It's really funny how some players are harshly judged and others seem to be viewed through rose coloured glasses. 
 

Isn’t it? Given how harshly you’ve just judged him. I don’t think it’s true that he can’t defend 1:1, although hopefully with a solid team defence there should be little need to do that, and for someone who is constantly run down, zero occasions of that happening stick out in my mind.

Everyone thinks they’re objective and unbiased, but we all make up our minds on a player and confirmation bias does the rest.

[forever demons 2,220]

Pig in to bury the chop stick medalist up to his neck in pig [censored]

[Damo 3,356]

I think Petty was tried forward this year as he wasnt going as well in the backline as previous. Thats probably just my idea :). He then has had issues up forward as well as injuries. I think he should be discussed in this light of not having a good season. Tommo while Frost-Like at times is doing a solid job and Id prefer Smithy to be up forward for a full game. I think Harry needs to put together at least another couple at Casey. Or Sub at best.

[Fat Tony 5,231]

Joel Smith has to start in the 22. He is able to create separation like Cameron and Curnow at the moment due to his elite speed and is reading the ball perfectly in the air. This makes him a threat on the lead and over the back and because he is so agile, he is always a chance to get the ball on the ground. If he can kick straight, he could be our most dangerous forward. He also helps our tackling on inside 50. I understand he is very versatile and that is why people think he is an ideal sub, but he is in such good form in the air he makes our forward line look much more dynamic.

Ben Brown has kicked just 2 goals in the last four games. He has been good in patches (particularly at the start against the Lions) but he is such a liability when the ball is on the deck and gets out marked too often when competing against two players and he needs to get the ball to ground. I know he was a 2021 hero, but that was 2 years ago and he has never proven to be a great player on the MCG.

Hibberd is way too good for the VFL but the only way I can see to get him in is to either play a smaller defence, with Petty or Tomlinson out of the back 7, or shifting Rivers to midfield or Bowey forward.

Gawn won’t be able to ruck solo for the rest of the season and we need to look at bringing Grundy back in at some stage.

Petty will probably be fit to return. Should he replace Tomlinson? I am not sure. Tomlinson has been better than Petty over the last two months but he clearly has limitations in defending against tall high leaping forwards like McKay, Hipwood and Daniher. I like what Petty can give us up forward, because he is a good mark and competes to get the ball to ground against multiple opponents.

 

My changes (prior to unknown injuries):

Petty (forward) for Ben Brown

Smith for Wowoedin (unlucky but he has had a taste)

Hibberd sub

In case of substitution, Hibberd goes back, Rivers goes midfield, Sparrow forward

 

Tomlinson May McVee

Salem Lever Rivers

Langdon Brayshaw Hunter

Neal-Bullen Van Rooyen Chandler

Pickett Petty Petracca

Gawn Sparrow Viney

Jordon Smith Melksham Bowey

Hibberd

Edited July 24, 2023 by Fat Tony

[beelzebub 23,376]

Petty ???  Needs a run in the magoos (imho )to prove he can actually make it through a game properly.....

This bringing in half baked players..is just that...half baked.

I tend to agree with those that suggest  Benny is harshly critiqued. He actually KNOWS where to go and BE....shame many of his team mates dont have his appreciation of the forward game...( and burn him )   Is that Benny's fault ??

Not sure what the f was going on with May .....wasnt his best game and making some very uncharacteristic f-ups !!   And I'm pretty sure we now all know the 'code' for the ball is going up the guts !!.

Tommo would be stiff to be ommitted... has performed well... Very cool under pressure......and has the tank to go with a fit forward (oppo )     and yet I still want to fit PIG into the side.....   cant see how that all works..

I reckon we will end up 4th....all but by design.....with a view to the G and a feast upon Pies come the 1st QF.    So we have some largesse ( though not truckloads ) to 'manage' a few here and there.

Somwhere along the road home we need to rest Rooyen.  I think his forward education needs to go to another level... he's pretty good ( very  good ) for a young lad...but he's no irreplaceable...and he needs to think more.

I'd like to think we have the Toiges measure by some.......but they are one of those teams that worry me....they can play so well on the fumes of self-belief....even when the talent board is a bit bare.  Am sure Richmond have their sights well set on their rightful position of  ...9th....so we better be wary ;)

[Cranky Franky 2,061]

17 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

Like which part?

Kicking? Goals? Overhead marking/spoiling? Defensive pressure as a stoppage sweeper? Attack on ground balls? Tackling?

The one thing he does to an ok standard is positioning in transition but he can be exploited by teams when he’s dropped back too far too.

He’s just completely meh.

He was ordinary yesterday but over the last month he has been good, better than Langdon.

[Diamond Tim 291]

1 hour ago, whatwhat say what said:

for mine, prior to his injury his form as a forward was more encouraging than his form down back

he presented constantly and brought the ball to ground if he didn't grab it, which is what is the mandate is for our structure

This - Petty was excellent at chf during the first half of the game he was injured. Leading and clunking marks. For mine if the q is Petty or Thommo playing back then it's Thommo by a street on current form.

The other q then is tall forward - I go JVR as one and either Brody, BBB or Petty as the other.

[Red and Blue realist 2,051]

I think we have to bring Grundy back for BBB. While up and going I think we're a better team with BBB in it but he's been far from convincing since he's returned from injury. He's averaged 8.5 touches and 2 marks over the last 4 weeks, while only kicking 2 goals. I don't mind the idea of Gawn playing a little more forward this week - he went very well in the practice match earlier this year up forward, maybe he goes there for 15 minutes and Grundy for 8 minutes a quarter?

Tomo to stay and play on Reiwoldt, let May take Pickett and Lever on Miller and they should be able to get off those guys to help Tomo and set up play from the back end. The Tigers are pretty small up front, so I'd be reluctant to take out either Bowey or McVee, but I think we need Hibberd, so maybe he comes in for JJ, and Salem or Rivers, play a little more middle if needed. 

So I'd be going Grundy and Hibberd for BBB and JJ. 

[adonski 12,143]

If Petty comes back this week, it's as a fwd, where we have an unsettled line-up 

His form as a key defender doesn't warrant automatic inclusion this year

[Bang Bang Bang 5,826]

Hunter seems to be quite unpopular on here. I personally feel like he has been an excellent outlet for us all season and has changed the way we play for the better, we actually use both wings to attack now. Very important player for our structure even if he can be a bit cute at times. We’re 8-0 at the MCG with Hunter playing this year and 0-1 without him. We were a poor MCG side up until this year too. Now I am not suggesting he’s THAT integral to our fortunes, but I’d be absolutely staggered if he was dropped.

Tomlinson on exposed form has had a better season than Petty, but I get the feeling the coaches see it differently. We have conceded a lot of scoring shots in the past two games, so it seems like a no brainer to slot Hibbo back in there. For who? I’m not so sure. 

Grundy for BBB seems like a given in the next few games too. 

 

[Demons11 7,014]

18 hours ago, ucanchoose said:

Brown out for Smith, that'll do me

I’d go Brown for Petty.  Leave Tomlinson back (he is was excellent yesterday and made me eat my words I have to say).  Smith is a perfect sub 

[loges 6,767]

2 hours ago, old dee said:

Hunter does one thing very well. He gets the ball a lot. You cannot do anything if you don't have the ball.

This 

[titan_uranus 25,020]

1 hour ago, Fat Tony said:

Joel Smith has to start in the 22. He is able to create separation like Cameron and Curnow at the moment due to his elite speed and is reading the ball perfectly in the air. This makes him a threat on the lead and over the back and because he is so agile, he is always a chance to get the ball on the ground. If he can kick straight, he could be our most dangerous forward. He also helps our tackling on inside 50. I understand he is very versatile and that is why people think he is an ideal sub, but he is in such good form in the air he makes our forward line look much more dynamic.

In Smith's last full game (vs GWS) he took 1 mark. The week before that (vs Geelong) he took 3 marks. In the four full games he played (Carlton, Collingwood, Geelong, GWS) he took 14 marks at an average of 3.5. In Brown's four games since returning he's taken 12 marks at an average of 3 (bearing in mind he was subbed off this week for a quarter).

I've liked Smith's efforts this year but he remains a player for whom his talent distracts from his actual output. 

[old dee 23,791]

18 minutes ago, Demons11 said:

I’d go Brown for Petty.  Leave Tomlinson back (he is was excellent yesterday and made me eat my words I have to say).  Smith is a perfect sub 

How did they taste D11?

[Fat Tony 5,231]

5 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

In Smith's last full game (vs GWS) he took 1 mark. The week before that (vs Geelong) he took 3 marks. In the four full games he played (Carlton, Collingwood, Geelong, GWS) he took 14 marks at an average of 3.5. In Brown's four games since returning he's taken 12 marks at an average of 3 (bearing in mind he was subbed off this week for a quarter).

I've liked Smith's efforts this year but he remains a player for whom his talent distracts from his actual output. 

Your comparison isn't really fair IMO.

I don't want to be like an England supporter and complaining about the rain, but the GWS and the Cats games were both in horrendous conditions for forwards. And our ball movement against the Pies and Blues wasn't great for the forwards either. The last three weeks have been in perfect conditions for Brown and we have been more attacking and yet he has been sub par for the most part.

We need to give Smith a chance because he looks sensational in glimpses and because he makes our forward line less predictable. He was fantastic against Brisbane and Adelaide and we might be 0-2 the last two weeks if not for his impact, and he was very important in our win against the Pies.

[SPC 3,549]

Smith is a 3rd forward option. He needs Brown as the decoy. His pressure, tackling is an asset. I’d like him to start and Trac move into the midfield till Oliver is back. Our forwardline looks okay with Melky and Kozzie hitting some form. Plus Richmond are JVRs bunnies! 

[Demons11 7,014]

1 hour ago, old dee said:

How did they taste D11?

Sour 🤣🤣🤣
Im happy to be proven wrong when it comes to players 

Edited July 24, 2023 by Demons11

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,755]

1 hour ago, Fat Tony said:

We need to give Smith a chance because he looks sensational in glimpses and because he makes our forward line less predictable. He was fantastic against Brisbane and Adelaide and we might be 0-2 the last two weeks if not for his impact, and he was very important in our win against the Pies.

Is that a good or a bad thing, though?

[beelzebub 23,376]

1 hour ago, Demons11 said:

Sour 🤣🤣🤣
Im happy to be proven wrong when it comes to players 

I think we're all quite happy to be wrong...if the result's right 😀

[Pipefitter 2,159]

Wonder if Grundy will come in for Brown. Smith was great but he’s not a number one key forward . Neither is Grundy though. Eh I’m out of ideas. 
 

 

[DeeSpencer 25,711]

Should happen:
Out: Melk In: Smith.
Melk to sub. Purely a rest /workload issue, Smith will lose condition if he can’t play a full game and Melk’s done a power of work.

Could happen:
Out: Tomlinson In: Hibberd 
Hibbo wasn’t great at Casey but if there’s no Tomlinson match up we’re better off with the Pig 

Wont happen;
Out: Hunter In: Spargo/Money Man Wakefield 
Taj to the wing, JJ back up wing. Would love a bit more speed and tackling at half forward against Rioli and the tiger runners. AMW isn’t as polished as Spargo but he’s building nicely and does some special stuff

Back JJ and Juddy in. 

Petty a run in the 2’s for confidence and match fitness, Grundy one more week against better opposition.