CHANGES: Rd 19 vs Western Bulldogs

[Bitter but optimistic 22,218]

21 minutes ago, DubDee said:

I think only playing brown plus resting ruck is too small.  Brown will be triple teamed and may not be able to even bring the ball to ground.  If Gawn or LJ are off the ground we only have one tall fwd option.  Unless we change our style to a chip kicking, hand-ball chain running team (which could be a option to consider) we need another tall, even if they are not terrific

You make a good point here Dub. I noted this situation in both the Geelong and PA game and recall thinking "we are too short".

We just cannot cover the loss of Tmac with either Weid or Brown and I doubt they will give the kid JVR a try at this stage of the season. Unless we get consistent goal kicking input from Kossie Spargo and Milshake ( or whoever plays that role) we will struggle.

[Redleg 40,815]

32 minutes ago, Bitter but optimistic said:

You make a good point here Dub. I noted this situation in both the Geelong and PA game and recall thinking "we are too short".

We just cannot cover the loss of Tmac with either Weid or Brown and I doubt they will give the kid JVR a try at this stage of the season. Unless we get consistent goal kicking input from Kossie Spargo and Milshake ( or whoever plays that role) we will struggle.

So try Tomlinson forward and tell him the role we want him to play.

Maybe it is just dragging another key defender away from Brown and Fritta.

That could be worth a couple of goals on its own. Maybe if they zone off him, he becomes the free tall to kick it to.

He is fit enough to move up the ground and back, like Tom does as as well.

Maybe our mids when they look up, will see three talls in different spots they can aim at, instead of the predictable big bomb to BBB with 3 on him.

[Salems Lot 2,486]

Any word on Rick Lever?  He looked seriously ginger at the end of the game

[DeeSpencer 25,438]

21 minutes ago, Redleg said:

So try Tomlinson forward and tell him the role we want him to play.

Maybe it is just dragging another key defender away from Brown and Fritta.

That could be worth a couple of goals on its own. Maybe if they zone off him, he becomes the free tall to kick it to.

He is fit enough to move up the ground and back, like Tom does as as well.

Maybe our mids when they look up, will see three talls in different spots they can aim at, instead of the predictable big bomb to BBB with 3 on him.

Isn’t that exactly what Melksham did v Port? 

Apart from iffy contests and marking the main reason Weid doesn’t get an extended run is his lack of defensive pressure. Tomlinson can’t turn. I can’t see how he helps. It’s not Melksham’s strong suit either but he was very good defensively against Port.

I see the competition for Tommy Macs spot coming down to Melksham, JVR, Hunt and Joel Smith. They’re the 4 guys who have the combination of height and mobility.

[binman 42,613]

On 7/18/2022 at 9:26 AM, DeeZone said:

Agree DG Fritters skill is that he can kick goals from any angle and usually does and apart from one stuff up we thought that he played his role well despite some heavy contact from the Port boys before and after disposal. Being at the game there were numerous times when the ball bounced really strangely bouncing sideways over their heads totally different to what the players were expecting which cost us a couple of goals.

The bounce was def weird.

I reckon we did OK from it though. One of kossie's goal came after every other player seemed to assume it was going to bounce over the boundary.

And another was set up when the ball looked for all the world like it was going to go out, but stopped in its tracks and we won the contest and got a renrty

[MrFreeze 1,951]

In: Petty, Oliver

Out: Tommo, Bedford

Tommo played great but Petty is better. Bedford had little impact and i like Melk playing the lockdown role at HF. He can take a tall to help Brown, prevent some rebound and has neat disposal entering inside 50. Additionally, i think 1 goal, 7 tackles, some score involvements/assists deserves a reward. We should trust Melk a little after seeing how well Hibbo is playing currently. 

[Rab D Nesbitt 8,337]

I sometimes wonder if it was worth giving Tommo a crack at CHF because if it worked we'd have the bonus of being able to swing him back if one of our defensive talls went down during a game. In a couple of those mid season losses the ascendancy only really swung whilst we had a defender off the ground being assessed for injury. 

[Mincho Mania 530]

4 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Probably too late in the year to make the switch up forward. 

If they're gonna consider it for next year then they'll need to train him with the forwards group all pre season so that he's got the structure down pat.

Structure, what structure? 🙂

[D4Life 2,436]

27 minutes ago, MrFreeze said:

In: Petty, Oliver

Out: Tommo, Bedford

Tommo played great but Petty is better. Bedford had little impact and i like Melk playing the lockdown role at HF. He can take a tall to help Brown, prevent some rebound and has neat disposal entering inside 50. Additionally, i think 1 goal, 7 tackles, some score involvements/assists deserves a reward. We should trust Melk a little after seeing how well Hibbo is playing currently. 

Fair call, and Tomo to medi-sub.

Re Melksham, thought he was done & dusted, but he played his role, curbed Alir influence in 1st half, pressure with 7 tackles, inc. the great rundown,  kicked a goal and contributed to a few others. His disposal also improved 2nd half. Whether there are better alternatives for that last spot in the forward line, that’s the big question going into the finals! I’d like to think so, I’d still rather Weid, JVR, Hunt or Smith, but will trust the FD to get it right.

[Deespicable 2,717]

I was rapt that we seemed to inact the switch at least five times from down back against Port, whereas the week before against the Cats we went left, left and left again. Part of that comes down to the inclusion of Tomlinson and Rivers - both of whom are good kicks, although hardly stars. Part of it doubtless was a relook at the Cats game by our coaches and May and others were clearly reminded that there were two sides of the ground.

This week the selectors have to decide whether to continue with just two talls up front - I reckon the Dogs are quicker and will make the switch harder, which means we will go up the line more which in turn means you need the third tall up front. Both Petty or May would be great options at CHF, but Goody and his team don't like switching the magnets around, so I reckon they will be too scared to make the switch and given that Melky played well, he will likely stay in. If Melky keeps working that hard, then his right-foot lethal weapon makes him very useful and almost undroppable.

Bedford is the obvious out (very surprised that he played in Alice ahead of Laurie and Chandler) and Oliver comes back with Sparrow spending more time up forward again in Bedord's role.

Assuming Petty is right, then Tomlinson is the unlucky out, although as stated, I wish we had the balls to try May or Petty up forward, thereby keeping Tomlinson in. But we'll go small again.

Rivers needs to do more, but provides good balance down back with Salem and Hibberd, so Hunt and Bowey will have to wait.

Spargo has to do more as well, and with Laurie and Chandler in form, a change should be made - but it won't be.

[Dee*ceiving 1,674]

Agree with many on here. I like the thought of experimenting with either Tomlinson or Petty forward and this is probably the week to do it under the roof at Marvel and against a side with a history of struggling defensively. 

 

[Satan 2,870]

Bbb limping left knee  , seen on 7

Rick lever interviewed , like all players expect to play , mmm we shall see

[loges 6,767]

Oliver training with thumb heavily strapped

[Diamond_Jim 12,527]

1 hour ago, Satan said:

Bbb limping left knee  , seen on 7

Noticed that BBB was playing on the weekend with strapping around his knee.

Does he usually have strapping

[mo64 5,853]

4 hours ago, Rab D Nesbitt said:

I sometimes wonder if it was worth giving Tommo a crack at CHF because if it worked we'd have the bonus of being able to swing him back if one of our defensive talls went down during a game. In a couple of those mid season losses the ascendancy only really swung whilst we had a defender off the ground being assessed for injury. 

We have 3 KPFs playing at Casey and Tomlinson hasn't played up forward since arriving at the club. If the coaches had any inkling that Tomlinson could play the T Mac role, surely they'd have tried it at Casey. At least Petty did play that role in 2019.

If BBB is doubtful, I've got no idea what we'll do. The obvious move is to play JVR, but I've given up predicting.

[Demonstone 22,298]

6 hours ago, Salems Lot said:

Any word on Rick Lever?  He looked seriously ginger at the end of the game

Oliver looked ginger at training today, as did Bowey and Petty.

[Lil_red_fire_engine 11,108]

On 7/18/2022 at 12:45 PM, BDA said:

I'm glad Bedford has been given a run of games. Showed some really good signs v the Lions but unfortunately hasn't been able to build on that performance. I think he goes out of the side and can have no complaints

The call seems to be stick with the extra small or bring the Weid back in. I reckon we should give Chandler a run and see how he goes. I just don't have faith the Weid can deliver

Bedford had 17 pressure acts in 69% game time. This is his job. No surprise to me that since Bedford has played to offer repeat speed and pressure we have kept Pickett closer to goal and he has looked more dangerous. Unless we go the extra tall which I think would cost Melksham I cant see him getting dropped.

[Roger Mellie 3,968]

4 minutes ago, Lil_red_fire_engine said:

Bedford had 17 pressure acts in 69% game time. This is his job. No surprise to me that since Bedford has played to offer repeat speed and pressure we have kept Pickett closer to goal and he has looked more dangerous. Unless we go the extra tall which I think would cost Melksham I cant see him getting dropped.

I'm inclined to agree. Bedford might not be troubling the statistician too often, but I'm not sure we can loose his speed and pressure - particularly with Melksham in the side. We know he can kick the odd goal and these may become more frequent as he acclimatises. I'd like him to form a lethal combo with Kossie in time.

[Demonland 71,270]

 

[monoccular 17,413]

8 hours ago, DubDee said:

I think only playing brown plus resting ruck is too small.  Brown will be triple teamed and may not be able to even bring the ball to ground.  If Gawn or LJ are off the ground we only have one tall fwd option.  Unless we change our style to a chip kicking, hand-ball chain running team (which could be a option to consider) we need another tall, even if they are not terrific

Am I too simplistic thinking that if BBB is triple teamed then there must be two un manned forwards somewhere.  Why not leave him triple teamed and ignore him using the others?

Edited July 19, 2022 by monoccular

[bobby1554 1,244]

1 hour ago, Diamond_Jim said:

Noticed that BBB was playing on the weekend with strapping around his knee.

Does he usually have strapping

Yes he does. And every time he runs off the ground to the bench he is noticeably limping. 

[Diamond_Jim 12,527]

5 minutes ago, monoccular said:

Am I too simplistic thinking that if BBB is triple teamed then there must be two un manned forwards somewhere.  Why not leave him triple teamed and ignore him using the others?

The critical point to observe is when the ball is kicked. At that point he is rarely triple teamed. We love our high kicking entries which when directed towards BBB gives plenty of time for other defenders to leave their man and triple team him.

The answer is for the other attacking forward to lead his defender away to such an extent that this defender can't influence the play.

Harder in practice of course 

[Gawndy the Great 9,011]

On 7/18/2022 at 12:39 PM, jnrmac said:

We try to defend leads. 

It will cost us one day either with a loss or failed percentage boost.

And our ability to do so is slipping .

[binman 42,613]

1 hour ago, Diamond_Jim said:

 

The answer is for the other attacking forward to lead his defender away to such an extent that this defender can't influence the play.

 

But that's not our game plan.

Wasn't last year, and isn't this year.

Create an aeriel contest, if no mark make sure an opponent doesn't mark it and bring it down to a predictable spot so your mids, half forwards and small forwards can score or create a stoppage.

Failing that, put huge pressure on the defender who wins the ground ball and force a turnover - either a missed handball or a dump kick. Which we bounce back inside 50 because we have set up our wall.

Rinse and repeat.

As you note, seperation for the forwards also means seperation for the defenders.

That creates more space and one on ones, which is fine if that is your method. 

That's how Port like to set up, so they can isolate their three key forwards.The blues have a similar set up.

But that set up doesn't work for us because we want congestion not space from those long kick to a crowded forward line (as opposed to the kick to a player all by themselves inside 50 we create when are swarming forward from hb

The two methods were on display in Sunday's game.

Our defensive sytem renders their sytem next to useless, as evidenced in our last 3 or 4 games.  That's because, like freo and the cats, we zone off brilliant and have a goal keeper role.

But once we turned up the heat, our method started working, we got rolling and they couldn't stop our offence .

The method worked, in large part due to Brown's work rate and contests.

Most of kossie's goals were a function of our method, as were several others.

My favourite was Jackson's goal, that started with nibbler's desperation and crazy smart handball to viney. 

All that said, we will need a second tall who can play tmac's role. We have sorely missed his up and down the ground run and his smarts in aeriel contests, for example the blocking he does for bb.

I reckon weed will come back in, not this week but perhaps round 20 or 21. He'll be super clear on what his role is and goody will give him his shot. Maybe two games to prove it's his spot.

If he doesn't make a compelling statement, goody had jvr, or even Smith as options.

[adonski 11,776]

1 minute ago, binman said:

But that's not our game plan.

Wasn't last year, and isn't this year.

Create an aeriel contest, if no mark make sure an opponent doesn't mark it and bring it down to a predictable spot so your mids, half forwards and small forwards can score or create a stoppage.

Failing that, put huge pressure on the defender who wins the ground ball and force a turnover - either a missed handball or a dump kick. Which we bounce back inside 50 because we have set up our wall.

Rinse and repeat.

As you note, seperation for the forwards also means seperation for the defenders.

That creates more space and one on ones, which is fine if that is your method. 

That's how Port like to set up, so they can isolate their three key forwards.The blues have a similar set up.

But that set up doesn't work for us because we want congestion not space from those long kick to a crowded forward line (as opposed to the kick to a player all by themselves inside 50 we create when are swarming forward from hb

The two methods were on display in Sunday's game.

Our defensive sytem renders their sytem next to useless, as evidenced in our last 3 or 4 games.  That's because, like freo and the cats, we zone off brilliant and have a goal keeper role.

But once we turned up the heat, our method started working, we got rolling and they couldn't stop our offence .

The method worked, in large part due to Brown's work rate and contests.

Most of kossie's goals were a function of our method, as were several others.

My favourite was Jackson's goal, that started with nibbler's desperation and crazy smart handball to viney. 

All that said, we will need a second tall who can play tmac's role. We have sorely missed his up and down the ground run and his smarts in aeriel contests, for example the blocking he does for bb.

I reckon weed will come back in, not this week but perhaps round 20 or 21. He'll be super clear on what his role is and goody will give him his shot. Maybe two games to prove it's his spot.

If he doesn't make a compelling statement, goody had jvr, or even Smith as options.

How many games into the season are we, feels like weids 38th opportunity so far this season 

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