On 09/08/2022 at 12:49, John Demonic said:

The implication of us having 700k or so for the next 5 years for Grundy, would seem to be that we do not have any other big KPF recruit in the pipeline for the foreseeable future. It's win now with what we have, what JVR becomes and what other smaller pieces we can acquire via free agency and trade

Weid has 1 more year on what has to be modest coin, if things go well JVR takes that salary spot I guess. Both Brown and McDonald have 2 years on what would be significant but not massive amounts. Neither seem likely to play longer than those 2 years, not for big money anyway. I'd suggest our key forward budget is well and truly open for 2025, which might even mean we could bring someone in on a backloaded deal for the next couple of years too. But I'd doubt we'd even be thinking about Grundy if we had a proper big fish key forward on the line.

 

Not sure why some are already dismissing this, or talking down Grundy's ability. He's easily been the 2nd best pure ruckman of the last 5 years.

Why I think we'd be getting him is so Max can play predominantly forward, and while his kicking hasn't been great, his leading and general forward craft has improved out of sight this year. With a full pre-season this will improve further, and instead of our outlet kicks going towards Brown or Weid, we'd have one of the best contested marks up forward, while also giving him the license to drop back for the last few minutes of a quarter or if we're under pressure.

On top of this Gawn would then have the ability to play in the very high 90s of game time. Allowing our mids/explosive players to rest more on the bench, given May/Lever/Petty and Langdon already spend a lot of time on the ground.

At the moment Grundy is a better player than Jackson, not sure if that will be true over time, but I think it'd be an upgrade to personal for the next season or 2 and could dramatically improve our overall structure too. Having said that, we'd want the Pies to be paying 30% or so of his contract and we wouldn't want to be over paying in a trade either! 

Treloar in potentially similar circumstances was traded with two 2nds and a 3rd round for a 1st round and future 2nd. If we get 2 first round picks for Jackson, I'd happily give our 1st round pick next year (not Freo's), and our 2nd this year for Grundy and one of their 3rds this year. 

Interestingly Gawn and Grundy have played the same number of games. Gawn has kicked ~20 more goals

my worry with Grundy is how his body will hold up. 29 at start of next season and can’t get on the park this year. His body has taken a beating over the years. Also worried why the Pies want to get rid of him aside from the big contract…

Avoid

  On 09/08/2022 at 22:34, layzie said:

What do people genuinely think of Grundy's forward craft? 

I see it more as him doing most of the ruck whilst Gawn spend more time forward

  On 10/08/2022 at 01:39, david_neitz_is_my_dad said:

I see it more as him doing most of the ruck whilst Gawn spend more time forward

Scary - watching him run in to kick at goal creates tension through the glutes, shoulder, back of the neck etc etc 

  On 10/08/2022 at 01:41, jumbo returns said:

Scary - watching him run in to kick at goal creates tension through the glutes, shoulder, back of the neck etc etc 

🤣🤣🤣

  On 10/08/2022 at 01:19, A F said:

Gawn and Brown as the talls, with Fritsch and then a mosquito fleet at their feet. Kozzy, Bedford, Chandler with ANB and Spargo at high half forward. We can target the 20m hot spot at the top of the square ala Richmond 2017. Then play a higher defensive zone, and two goalkeepers behind them.

Goakeepers! It is Aussie rules we are discussing.

As others have mentioned, Jackson may end up being the better player long term than Grundy, but it's hard to argue that Grundy wouldn't be an upgrade on LJ for next year.

Grundy in 2021 - 19 possessions/4 marks/0.6 goals/32 hitouts per game

Jackson in 2022 -- 14 possessions/3 marks/0.5 goals/10 hitouts per game.

You could argue that the hitouts aren't comparing apples with apples as Grundy spent more time rucking in 2021 than Jackson has in 2022, however the goal kicking output looks way more favourable on Grundy as Jackson has spent way more time up forward.

Jackson has been a disappointment when up forward this year, however in fairness is a more reliable shot for goal than Gawn.

I'm all for the recruitment of Grundy if Jackson leaves.

I have no real negative views on getting Grundy.. but IMO he is simply not the Number 1 priority. A ruckman will be obviously, but money spent on him will mean we will not be in the race for a KPF

I do struggle to see how Grundy could be a forward given he doesn't mark much.  Career mark average per game is 3.5 (only 2 this year) and contested career average 0.9.  His metres gained isn't great,  he handballs a lot.  Tackles reasonably well for a big man, and averages less goals per game than Gawn.  I doubt the plan is for Grundy to spend much time forward.  Up until his injury Gawn had become nearly a reliable shot at goal, his last few weeks he has struggled with that.  It will be interesting to see what the plan is should a trade eventuate.  I very much doubt they'll go down this path but it's worth looking at.

 

  On 10/08/2022 at 01:38, DubDee said:

Interestingly Gawn and Grundy have played the same number of games. Gawn has kicked ~20 more goals

my worry with Grundy is how his body will hold up. 29 at start of next season and can’t get on the park this year. His body has taken a beating over the years. Also worried why the Pies want to get rid of him aside from the big contract…

Avoid

I hear what you're saying and of course the medical staff would need to go their due diligence but from the superficial details available about Grundy's injuries we need not be scared off. A PCL tear is a common injury for ruckman - so we shouldn't hold that against him - and most make a successful recovery. That he sustained a stress fracture after his recovery from the PCL injury says more about load management during his rehabilitation rather than a tendency to be injury prone. Perhaps they pushed a little too aggressively with the prospect of a deep run into the finals on the horizon?

A year out of the game at 28 for ruckman gives time for other injuries to settle and may actually prolong his career.   

This is as much a flex by Melbourne as it is to Grundy. 

Grundy showing Collingwood he isn't certain to be around. 

Melbourne showing Jackson he's potentially being replaced by an AA ruckman.

The prospect of going up against Gawn and Grundy each game would be terrifying.

Wouldn't be thrilled if this actually happened.

As long he wants to come to us,  it will happen 

  On 10/08/2022 at 02:35, one_demon said:

As long he wants to come to us,  it will happen 

I would think the fact he's actually gone out of his way to wanting to sit down and chat points that he's opened to the thought or playing with us.

Pies fans on SEN wanting a top 10 pick. Pfffft - it's a salary dump and will be a swap of later picks.

Just don't see the synergies between Gawn and Grundy. Two very similar players

Jackson and Gawn works because they are different types of players.

If intended to release Gawn forward he needs to nail his goalkicking.

And then there's the money.  Even if we only pay 60% of his salary he's not cheap

  On 10/08/2022 at 02:56, Clintosaurus said:

Pies fans on SEN wanting a top 10 pick. Pfffft - it's a salary dump and will be a swap of later picks.

you can't have a premium pick and a salary dump as you say.

Strange supporters those Magpie fans

Whatever we do get the deal in writing. Remember the Treloar fiasco where post trade no one was sure who was paying how much of his salary and for how long

Love this idea. If we lose Jackson we don’t have a back up for Max. Seeing him be bashed up over the past couple of years, Grundy isn’t just insurance but could take the load off giving longevity to Max.

This plays well to servicing our midfield dominance and could assist our forward line with one of them parked down there.

We talk about pressure… imagine being an opposing defender trying to kick the ball out from a behind… left or right there is one of these two!

  On 10/08/2022 at 01:41, jumbo returns said:

Scary - watching him run in to kick at goal creates tension through the glutes, shoulder, back of the neck etc etc 

No wonder he is missing with that level of tension when he kicks 😜

 

  On 10/08/2022 at 00:51, Axis of Bob said:

Grundy is a box filler. 

He doesn't win the important possessions that you need a ruck to win for your team to be successful. He's a hard worker who you can plug into the ruck all day and get an honest contest, but he's the smallest 203cm 108kg player that you could ever see. 

More important than that, though, is that his contract makes him completely untradable to a contender. Hard pass.

I was too harsh in this post and I can see a role for him if we get him. It just needs some planets to align before it's possible. 

The contract is a huge one. It would also require Grundy to change his play a bit to fit in with our style. He probably wouldn't be allowed/encouraged to play the same way as he has at Collingwood. 

He's a massive body who could play well into his 30s as a sort of premium Jarrod Witts. He gives a great contest in the ruck and competes long and hard. Gawn is a better player and we need Gawn around as long as humanly possible. Grundy would be great at soaking up those minutes allowing Gawn to play as a tall marking forward for a number of years, with shorter ruck stints. 

Grundy would need to play more as a conventional, wrestling, down the line ruckman, transitioning away from the 'extra midielder' role he's played historically. He can do it because he's huge, but he's always tended towards the easy ball around the ground rather than being happy to just compete for the long ball. He's not a great contested mark for his size but we would only really require him to stand under the ball, compete and halve those contests. 

Grundy would be playing first ruck, with Max giving him a chop out. The contract would need to be sorted out (!!!!!!!) and he'd need to 100% buy in to what we need him to do but anything that keeps Gawn around for longer is extremely tempting.

Grundy predominately rucking and Gawn forward. If it wasn’t for that disgusting man-bun, I’d be all for it. 

  On 10/08/2022 at 03:18, Ethan Tremblay said:

Grundy predominately rucking and Gawn forward. If it wasn’t for that disgusting man-bun, I’d be all for it. 

I'm not sold on the Gawn forward move. Been torched by his accuracy on goal more than once. Sure he can clunk them but it will only exacerbate our inability to convert if we lean on that move even more heavily than we are now. Would much rather chase a KPF who can put them through the big sticks with high regularity.