On 10/07/2022 at 12:13, jnrmac said:

Kicked 4 against Essendon a few years back

I think Hunt is a much better player off half back where he can break lines and take field position.  He may have had a few good games up forward but he gets lost there and doesn’t impact enough for mine. 

Port & Bulldogs back 6's aren't too big a step up from the VFL I reckon. Undersized and constantly out of position this year. It might be the ample two games to debut JVR 

Edited July 11, 20222 yr by John Demonic

  On 11/07/2022 at 04:59, DeeSpencer said:

On a forward flank Laurie’s a slower, less fit, less experienced, less combative version of Spargo.

Laurie’s VFL form is very promising for his future as a mid/forward type player with excellent skills. But that’s the future, when he’s developed his tank and his strength to play AFL midfield minutes. He’s barely established his midfield craft at VFL level, he’s a long way off AFL level.

In terms of bringing fresh players in to play half forward I’d still have Chandler and Melksham more impactful at AFL level than Laurie. And Spargo ahead of both. 

How can you say that a player who has yet to debut is less impactful? And how do you assess Laurie's fitness levels?

Spargo averages 72% game time this year compared to Kossies 80%. Only once has Spargo played over 80% game this year. 

Unless Laurie is given a chance, all your statements are pure guesswork or opinions. And we know how often your opinions have been wrong. 

  On 11/07/2022 at 08:06, mo64 said:

How can you say that a player who has yet to debut is less impactful? And how do you assess Laurie's fitness levels?

Spargo averages 72% game time this year compared to Kossies 80%. Only once has Spargo played over 80% game this year. 

Unless Laurie is given a chance, all your statements are pure guesswork or opinions. And we know how often your opinions have been wrong. 

Because I’ve watched the Casey games and Laurie doesn’t motor contest to contest the way our half forwards do at AFL level. He’s also on the slower side for a small, that’s undeniable. Doesn’t do a lot overhead, or with physical aggression. And whilst he’s taken a big stride forward his ball winning is only now getting to a good level for a VFL player, particularly as his midfield minutes increase.

Without open trainings I haven’t really seen how he’s done in fitness stuff but I don’t think it was elite pre draft and he’s in year 2. Spargo is year 5 and a noted runner.

Laurie has a lot of talent and when he physically matures and develops he should be a skilled mid/forward. I just don’t see the need to give him a game now only to prove that he’s off the pace as a half forward.

  On 11/07/2022 at 08:28, DeeSpencer said:

Because I’ve watched the Casey games and Laurie doesn’t motor contest to contest the way our half forwards do at AFL level. He’s also on the slower side for a small, that’s undeniable. Doesn’t do a lot overhead, or with physical aggression. And whilst he’s taken a big stride forward his ball winning is only now getting to a good level for a VFL player, particularly as his midfield minutes increase.

Without open trainings I haven’t really seen how he’s done in fitness stuff but I don’t think it was elite pre draft and he’s in year 2. Spargo is year 5 and a noted runner.

Laurie has a lot of talent and when he physically matures and develops he should be a skilled mid/forward. I just don’t see the need to give him a game now only to prove that he’s off the pace as a half forward.

Laurie was an elite 2km runner..

  On 11/07/2022 at 07:49, Demons11 said:

I think Hunt is a much better player off half back where he can break lines and take field position.  He may have had a few good games up forward but he gets lost there and doesn’t impact enough for mine. 

Dont disagree. I was just rebutting the post saying "Hunt is not a forward"

Interesting stat on On The Couch. For the last 5 weeks:

Petracca:

Kicks I50:   28

Marks from kicks I50: 2

Oliver:

Kicks I50:   18

Marks from kicks I50: 0

So 46 kicks into the forward line but only two of them were marked?

Given all that, not sure if changing forward personnel is going to do much if the way the ball is coming in continues to be so hit and miss (mainly miss).

(Also not sure that other main I50's, e.g. Harmes and ANB, are any better in terms of delivery/accuracy.)

 

  On 11/07/2022 at 11:24, bing181 said:

Interesting stat on On The Couch. For the last 5 weeks:

Petracca:

Kicks I50:   28

Marks from kicks I50: 2

Oliver:

Kicks I50:   18

Marks from kicks I50: 0

So 46 kicks into the forward line but only two of them were marked?

Given all that, not sure if changing forward personnel is going to do much if the way the ball is coming in continues to be so hit and miss (mainly miss).

(Also not sure that other main I50's, e.g. Harmes and ANB, are any better in terms of delivery/accuracy.)

 

It's not all the mids fault. As already spoken about in this thread, the forward structure and leading has been horrendous this year. Ben Brown has 1 mark from 45 one on ones, I find it hard to believe the 1 mark was the lone half decent kick. He was outmarked 8 times among that number too. He's our number 1 most targeted player inside 50.

The whole narrative of 'the mids just bomb it, it's their fault' falls apart pretty quickly once you go to a few games and see the lack of leading and efforts from the tall forwards.

Clearly something needs to change - the disconnect is a worry - but these stats miss the bigger picture.

Alot of this has to do with game style, you can see Trac and Oliver are told to get the ball in deep as quickly as possible, trouble is they then miss free players i50

Edited July 11, 20222 yr by Rednblueriseing

  On 11/07/2022 at 11:35, Rednblueriseing said:

Alot of this has to do with game style, you can see Trac and Oliver are told to get the ball in deep as quickly as possible, trouble is they then miss free players i50

Yep. And floating mongrel punts become the order of the day. I'd hate to be a forward in our setup.

  On 11/07/2022 at 11:35, Lord Nev said:

It's not all the mids fault. As already spoken about in this thread, the forward structure and leading has been horrendous this year. Ben Brown has 1 mark from 45 one on ones, I find it hard to believe the 1 mark was the lone half decent kick. He was outmarked 8 times among that number too. He's our number 1 most targeted player inside 50.

The whole narrative of 'the mids just bomb it, it's their fault' falls apart pretty quickly once you go to a few games and see the lack of leading and efforts from the tall forwards.

Clearly something needs to change - the disconnect is a worry - but these stats miss the bigger picture.

It's clearly both.

We know Brown's failing to mark the ball too much (of those 8, I reckon 4 of them were vs Harris Andrews alone), and whether it's B Brown, M Brown, Weideman or Fritsch (pretty much everyone except TMac this year), our forwards are often in the wrong spot or, when in the right spot, get beaten.

But we also know the kicking is poor. Everyone sees it every game. On Fox they've been showing from the Geelong game the footage of Fritsch streaming into the left-hand forward 50 (2nd quarter I think?), missing/ignoring a wide open Petracca and going longer and deeper to a non-advantageous contest. Then later, going to the right of screen, Petracca picks it up and kicks to a loose Geelong player when he had time to steady and at least target the one-on-one.

How many times does our kick inside 50 go to the advantage of our opponent? i.e. into space beautifully, but the space on the opponents' side of the contest, not our forward's? I suspect more often than not that's the kicker's fault, but the entire process of moving the ball from the back half into our forward 50 is in need of work. 

Oliver out, Sparrow to midfield, Hunt in to cover Sparrows role.

Out: Oliver

In: Hunt

  On 10/07/2022 at 08:30, Demons11 said:

Hunt is not a forward

He is more a forward than Spargo or Bedford!

  On 11/07/2022 at 21:50, picket fence said:

He is more a forward than Spargo or Bedford!

Not really only in bursts and when 9 and 12 play well they get or are involved in goals. 
Hunty is s nearly player and is very unlucky and probably should be our med  sub. 

  On 11/07/2022 at 12:58, SFebes said:

Oliver out, Sparrow to midfield, Hunt in to cover Sparrows role.

Out: Oliver

In: Hunt

IN Dunstan, Laurie in, Tommo in and( Petty to CHF )

possibly Rivers  to give run and drive off HBF.

OUT  Clarry inj Bedford omit manage (rest ) Bowey for a game to freshen up. 

Sparrow needs  more time  on ball. 

Need to try changes at this stage against  Dogs and Power. 

Maybe  run Salem on ball for few mins each quarter or get him up forward. 

Well Dlanders my wife and I are about to board our flight to Uluṟu and heading to the game in Alice on Sunday so dearly hope that the Dees are on fire on Sunday. It’ll be a sad flight home on Monday otherwise.!!!

  On 11/07/2022 at 22:14, DeeZone said:

Well Dlanders my wife and I are about to board our flight to Uluṟu and heading to the game in Alice on Sunday so dearly hope that the Dees are on fire on Sunday. It’ll be a sad flight home on Monday otherwise.!!!

Have a great trip!

  On 11/07/2022 at 22:14, DeeZone said:

 hope that the Dees are on fire on Sunday. 

I feel confident that will b e the case, half arrrsed play against Geelong and we were still there half way in the ladst,  couple of extra days to freshen,  We will win   Go Dees

  On 11/07/2022 at 22:14, DeeZone said:

Well Dlanders my wife and I are about to board our flight to Uluṟu and heading to the game in Alice on Sunday so dearly hope that the Dees are on fire on Sunday. It’ll be a sad flight home on Monday otherwise.!!!

Enjoy the trip and Game DZ.👍🇱🇮

  On 11/07/2022 at 11:24, bing181 said:

Interesting stat on On The Couch. For the last 5 weeks:

Petracca:

Kicks I50:   28

Marks from kicks I50: 2

Oliver:

Kicks I50:   18

Marks from kicks I50: 0

So 46 kicks into the forward line but only two of them were marked?

Given all that, not sure if changing forward personnel is going to do much if the way the ball is coming in continues to be so hit and miss (mainly miss).

(Also not sure that other main I50's, e.g. Harmes and ANB, are any better in terms of delivery/accuracy.)

 

Incredible stat. Would think it be hard to do that if you tried. Surely out of 46 kicks, a few even fortunately hit a target they weren’t aiming for. 

Equal top of ladder, and our 2 best players are hitting an inside 50 target 2% of the time :- The upside is enormous! 
 

Something fishy about that stat almost leading up to game plan change??

  On 11/07/2022 at 21:50, picket fence said:

He is more a forward than Spargo or Bedford!

I agree, though they won't use him forward. Has a beautiful long kick so can lead towards the 50 arc in order to kick scores, loves a big hanger, with his speed can easily work up the field and now has some learnt defensive ability.

Spargo is there for his defensive/pressure ability and connection. Needs to start scoring more.

Bedford is still learning the craft, I believe he has the most potential given his speed and evasive ability. Loves working with Pickett and can see that duo, going forward as match winners.

Just a couple of cautionary tales about Laurie and Van Rooyen.

Laurie probably shouldn't debut this week. He reminds me of Brock McLean who was also slow but had very good games on wet decks. The only proviso to this is if the game in the heat slows down. But early on the game will be too quick for him. Just a note on this . The medi-sub becomes very important up in Alice and should be chosen and used wisely.

Van Rooyen who I'm a huge fan of was possibly earmarked for an earlier debut but played in the early game at the 'G' against the Swans and fair dinkum hardly touched it. Was hugely dissapointing. Given that he is just a kid, that is entirely excusable, but I think he was pumped up for a big game, seemed to be played as the key forward and the coaches looked at that and thought he needed a fair bit more time in the VFL, maybe even the rest of the year. 

Happy for either to debut but they are both players that need and should be given circumstances as much in their favor as possible. Someone suggested that Port and Dogs have weakish back line talls so this may be a good week for Van Rooyen but I'd rather see us in winning form and they force their way in as opposed to when we have come off a loss and just want to see something different.

  On 11/07/2022 at 11:35, Rednblueriseing said:

Alot of this has to do with game style, you can see Trac and Oliver are told to get the ball in deep as quickly as possible, trouble is they then miss free players i50

Yes too many dump kicks from those two

  On 11/07/2022 at 22:11, 58er said:

IN Dunstan, Laurie in, Tommo in and( Petty to CHF )

possibly Rivers  to give run and drive off HBF.

OUT  Clarry inj Bedford omit manage (rest ) Bowey for a game to freshen up. 

Sparrow needs  more time  on ball. 

Need to try changes at this stage against  Dogs and Power. 

Maybe  run Salem on ball for few mins each quarter or get him up forward. 

The idea of playing Petty at CHF is exciting, but based on what we've seen of Tommo at VFL and AFL level this year, he's not the player to fill Petty's spot. Barring another horrific run with injuries to our key backs, we shouldn't be seeing Tomlinson in the AFL again this year.