Who to cull?

[rpfc 27,631]

I don’t like the term ‘cull’.

[Gawndy the Great 7,678]

So we are calling it quits on Rosman? I think thats a tad early given the kid has barely played a game for two years. He’d be in a similar boat as Laurie wouldn’t he?

If we are to keep LJ and then pivot for Oliver’s next contract, we are going to need to give up more than some players in the 2s. 

 

[Mazer Rackham 14,970]

2 hours ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

You must be younger than me. Anyone who grew up following football in the late 60s and 70s would have Collingwood as first cab off the rank. 

Oh no! Collingwood will always be my first love when it comes to hate. But a comp without them? It would be like Star Wars without Darth Vader. Over time we've bested them plenty. Our finals record against them is second to none.

Whereas the two clubs who've kicked us when down more than any others, to whom we owe massive payback ... well, maybe I'll let them stay in for another few years while the going's good.

[DEE fence 4,558]

2 hours ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

You must be younger than me. Anyone who grew up following football in the late 60s and 70s would have Collingwood as first cab off the rank. 

I get you are being I presume (slightly tongue in cheek) but wanted to say our enemies also help define us, as much as I hate Collingwood, (and Carlton/Essendon) I never want them gone, game would be poorer for it (same with Saints, Dogs and Cats). North, and Hawks are disposable, I actually agree with the long term AFL strategy of clubs in growth corridors, GWS and GCFC will eventually have a support base, Football is an existential threat to Australian Rules, we need it as the national game, we are a small country market/population base wise. I see the AFLW and the expansion teams as future proofing the game. 

[DEE fence 4,558]

15 hours ago, WERRIDEE said:

If we were to cull now who would we cull? I think we will do the minimum culling and that would be 3. My picks to be culled at the end of the year would be Melksham, Baker and Rosman. Thoughts?

There is a lack of respect in the word cull, Triage would be my choice, all of these players have demonstrated buy in and team 1st philosophy, it is with great regret that we cannot keep all that have invested great effort in the club. (also keep in mind that some players we will not save much coin on). The CHF spot confuses the hell out of me, will Tmac/M.Brown/Weid vs Van Rooyen 

FWIW my thinking on Age vs $ Value vs Esprit d'corps vs Talent metric, I would group players like this.

Tradeable and might save some dollars - make no mistake, I love all of these guys.

Hunt - his run would get some interest

Tomlinson or Petty (Probably keep Petty) Petty gets the nod for mobility, God forbid May goes down Tomlinson to be the Gorilla minder.

Harmes - not sure of his dollars.

Weid - this is his last season despite 2 year contract to do something

Jordan - His 2nd half 21 and this year not the same player, why?

Pickett - I'd sell him to keep Jackson if it came down to a choice between the two, this is the only reason, love his pressure, I am also sure to change my tune when he has a day out with 6+.

Not tradeable

May -  part of our defensive DNA

Salem - part of our defensive DNA

Petracca - will be a part of our all time best 

Jackson - honestly no ceiling on this guy.

Viney - anyone who doesn't understand our need for his intensity and aggression doesn't understand football.

Lever - part of our defensive DNA

Gawn - Premiership Captain and driver of standards.

Langdon - he scared an entire team onto the other side of the pitch with his hard running, fair compliment from GC

Brayshaw - I see him as a very high on Esprit d' corps value.

Oliver - will be a part of our all time best 

Bowey - part of our defensive DNA

Rivers - part of our defensive DNA

Neal-Bullen (key ingredient along with Langdon for our running defensive offensive pressure) 

Fritsch - 6 goal GF, such a threat, is the reason I could cope with Pickett leaving (just).

Ben Brown - age nearly puts him in another category but he is not replaceable with out current cap pressure, and I think his form has been improving steadily, a real chance for Coleman and we are not paying overs, I'm tipping he has 4 years left at about the current standard.

Free to good home (flippant I know, but we are kidding ourselves if we think they are on big dollars/have much time left, despite excellent service and having been great servants of the club), personally i think these guys keep playing for low dollars and they are not going to fix salary cap issues. 

Tmac ( I would keep him for his value as a spare defender)

Hibberd - Has been great, looking for a sign that he has more time, i still think his nous is ace.

Melksham - too inconsistent, and I think provides the least defensive pressure of any forward on our list

Baker - skills not there.

Can't make up my mind, would kill me to lose them though

Sparrow - will he take the next step

Spargo - not sure of his dollars, if it is not saving anything keep.

Cheap might as well keep

Smith - my opinion has changed more on this player than anyone else, kudos to those that could see it.

Chandler

Dunstan

Daw

M. Brown

No opinion on those yet to debut

[Gawndy the Great 7,678]

13 minutes ago, DEE fence said:

There is a lack of respect in the word cull, Triage would be my choice, all of these players have demonstrated buy in and team 1st philosophy, it is with great regret that we cannot keep all that have invested great effort in the club. (also keep in mind that some players we will not save much coin on). The CHF spot confuses the hell out of me, will Tmac/M.Brown/Weid vs Van Rooyen 

FWIW my thinking on Age vs $ Value vs Esprit d'corps vs Talent metric, I would group players like this.

Tradeable and might save some dollars - make no mistake, I love all of these guys.

Hunt - his run would get some interest

Tomlinson or Petty (Probably keep Petty) Petty gets the nod for mobility, God forbid May goes down Tomlinson to be the Gorilla minder.

Harmes - not sure of his dollars.

Weid - this is his last season despite 2 year contract to do something

Jordan - His 2nd half 21 and this year not the same player, why?

Pickett - I'd sell him to keep Jackson if it came down to a choice between the two, this is the only reason, love his pressure, I am also sure to change my tune when he has a day out with 6+.

Not tradeable

May -  part of our defensive DNA

Salem - part of our defensive DNA

Petracca - will be a part of our all time best 

Jackson - honestly no ceiling on this guy.

Viney - anyone who doesn't understand our need for his intensity and aggression doesn't understand football.

Lever - part of our defensive DNA

Gawn - Premiership Captain and driver of standards.

Langdon - he scared an entire team onto the other side of the pitch with his hard running, fair compliment from GC

Brayshaw - I see him as a very high on Esprit d' corps value.

Oliver - will be a part of our all time best 

Bowey - part of our defensive DNA

Rivers - part of our defensive DNA

Neal-Bullen (key ingredient along with Langdon for our running defensive offensive pressure) 

Fritsch - 6 goal GF, such a threat, is the reason I could cope with Pickett leaving (just).

Ben Brown - age nearly puts him in another category but he is not replaceable with out current cap pressure, and I think his form has been improving steadily, a real chance for Coleman and we are not paying overs, I'm tipping he has 4 years left at about the current standard.

Free to good home (flippant I know, but we are kidding ourselves if we think they are on big dollars/have much time left, despite excellent service and having been great servants of the club), personally i think these guys keep playing for low dollars and they are not going to fix salary cap issues. 

Tmac ( I would keep him for his value as a spare defender)

Hibberd - Has been great, looking for a sign that he has more time, i still think his nous is ace.

Melksham - too inconsistent, and I think provides the least defensive pressure of any forward on our list

Baker - skills not there.

Can't make up my mind, would kill me to lose them though

Sparrow - will he take the next step

Spargo - not sure of his dollars, if it is not saving anything keep.

Cheap might as well keep

Smith - my opinion has changed more on this player than anyone else, kudos to those that could see it.

Chandler

Dunstan

Daw

M. Brown

No opinion on those yet to debut

Problem with this is, your tradables probably earn about 1/2 or less of the untouchables so it isn’t going to do much in freeing up cap space unless we trade multiple at which point 

We’ll need to let one of those players go to keep LJ. Then there is Clayto in a few years time and he’s definitely a  keeper. 

 

[DEE fence 4,558]

1 minute ago, CYB said:

Problem with this is, your tradables probably earn about 1/2 or less of the untouchables so it isn’t going to do much in freeing up cap space unless we trade multiple at which point 

We’ll need to let one of those players go to keep LJ. Then there is Clayto in a few years time and he’s definitely a  keeper. 

 

Yes I agree, I would see several of the tradeables packaged up and hoping the draftees step up to cover the salary of Jackson and Oliver. I also am happy for us to put in an order for paper bags from Visy.

[Sir Why You Little 34,809]

2 hours ago, DEE fence said:

There is a lack of respect in the word cull, Triage would be my choice, all of these players have demonstrated buy in and team 1st philosophy, it is with great regret that we cannot keep all that have invested great effort in the club. (also keep in mind that some players we will not save much coin on). The CHF spot confuses the hell out of me, will Tmac/M.Brown/Weid vs Van Rooyen 

FWIW my thinking on Age vs $ Value vs Esprit d'corps vs Talent metric, I would group players like this.

Tradeable and might save some dollars - make no mistake, I love all of these guys.

Hunt - his run would get some interest

Tomlinson or Petty (Probably keep Petty) Petty gets the nod for mobility, God forbid May goes down Tomlinson to be the Gorilla minder.

Harmes - not sure of his dollars.

Weid - this is his last season despite 2 year contract to do something

Jordan - His 2nd half 21 and this year not the same player, why?

Pickett - I'd sell him to keep Jackson if it came down to a choice between the two, this is the only reason, love his pressure, I am also sure to change my tune when he has a day out with 6+.

Not tradeable

May -  part of our defensive DNA

Salem - part of our defensive DNA

Petracca - will be a part of our all time best 

Jackson - honestly no ceiling on this guy.

Viney - anyone who doesn't understand our need for his intensity and aggression doesn't understand football.

Lever - part of our defensive DNA

Gawn - Premiership Captain and driver of standards.

Langdon - he scared an entire team onto the other side of the pitch with his hard running, fair compliment from GC

Brayshaw - I see him as a very high on Esprit d' corps value.

Oliver - will be a part of our all time best 

Bowey - part of our defensive DNA

Rivers - part of our defensive DNA

Neal-Bullen (key ingredient along with Langdon for our running defensive offensive pressure) 

Fritsch - 6 goal GF, such a threat, is the reason I could cope with Pickett leaving (just).

Ben Brown - age nearly puts him in another category but he is not replaceable with out current cap pressure, and I think his form has been improving steadily, a real chance for Coleman and we are not paying overs, I'm tipping he has 4 years left at about the current standard.

Free to good home (flippant I know, but we are kidding ourselves if we think they are on big dollars/have much time left, despite excellent service and having been great servants of the club), personally i think these guys keep playing for low dollars and they are not going to fix salary cap issues. 

Tmac ( I would keep him for his value as a spare defender)

Hibberd - Has been great, looking for a sign that he has more time, i still think his nous is ace.

Melksham - too inconsistent, and I think provides the least defensive pressure of any forward on our list

Baker - skills not there.

Can't make up my mind, would kill me to lose them though

Sparrow - will he take the next step

Spargo - not sure of his dollars, if it is not saving anything keep.

Cheap might as well keep

Smith - my opinion has changed more on this player than anyone else, kudos to those that could see it.

Chandler

Dunstan

Daw

M. Brown

No opinion on those yet to debut

Interesting times ahead. 

[David-Demon 511]

16 hours ago, binman said:

Let's start with this thread

Let's finish this thread (please) 

[Diamond_Jim 11,995]

if we had been able to trade Melksham last summer things would be easier. $400k saving. T Mac on another year of 600k plus doesn't help.

Sure the impact is reduced next year and Brayshaw is probably facing a cut but it wont be easy. An increase in the TPP cap is not necessarily of help because it frees up money for the bidding clubs as well

[MrFreeze 1,526]

Petty put on the trade table? Had a laugh at that 

No chance in a million years, our next no 1 KPD when May retires 

[MrFreeze 1,526]

But anyway 

I'd like Melksham (old), Baker (no impact) and Chandler (not worth elevating above rookie list) to go 

 

[hemingway 7,601]

11 hours ago, DEE fence said:

There is a lack of respect in the word cull, Triage would be my choice, all of these players have demonstrated buy in and team 1st philosophy, it is with great regret that we cannot keep all that have invested great effort in the club. (also keep in mind that some players we will not save much coin on). The CHF spot confuses the hell out of me, will Tmac/M.Brown/Weid vs Van Rooyen 

FWIW my thinking on Age vs $ Value vs Esprit d'corps vs Talent metric, I would group players like this.

Tradeable and might save some dollars - make no mistake, I love all of these guys.

Hunt - his run would get some interest

Tomlinson or Petty (Probably keep Petty) Petty gets the nod for mobility, God forbid May goes down Tomlinson to be the Gorilla minder.

Harmes - not sure of his dollars.

Weid - this is his last season despite 2 year contract to do something

Jordan - His 2nd half 21 and this year not the same player, why?

Pickett - I'd sell him to keep Jackson if it came down to a choice between the two, this is the only reason, love his pressure, I am also sure to change my tune when he has a day out with 6+.

Not tradeable

May -  part of our defensive DNA

Salem - part of our defensive DNA

Petracca - will be a part of our all time best 

Jackson - honestly no ceiling on this guy.

Viney - anyone who doesn't understand our need for his intensity and aggression doesn't understand football.

Lever - part of our defensive DNA

Gawn - Premiership Captain and driver of standards.

Langdon - he scared an entire team onto the other side of the pitch with his hard running, fair compliment from GC

Brayshaw - I see him as a very high on Esprit d' corps value.

Oliver - will be a part of our all time best 

Bowey - part of our defensive DNA

Rivers - part of our defensive DNA

Neal-Bullen (key ingredient along with Langdon for our running defensive offensive pressure) 

Fritsch - 6 goal GF, such a threat, is the reason I could cope with Pickett leaving (just).

Ben Brown - age nearly puts him in another category but he is not replaceable with out current cap pressure, and I think his form has been improving steadily, a real chance for Coleman and we are not paying overs, I'm tipping he has 4 years left at about the current standard.

Free to good home (flippant I know, but we are kidding ourselves if we think they are on big dollars/have much time left, despite excellent service and having been great servants of the club), personally i think these guys keep playing for low dollars and they are not going to fix salary cap issues. 

Tmac ( I would keep him for his value as a spare defender)

Hibberd - Has been great, looking for a sign that he has more time, i still think his nous is ace.

Melksham - too inconsistent, and I think provides the least defensive pressure of any forward on our list

Baker - skills not there.

Can't make up my mind, would kill me to lose them though

Sparrow - will he take the next step

Spargo - not sure of his dollars, if it is not saving anything keep.

Cheap might as well keep

Smith - my opinion has changed more on this player than anyone else, kudos to those that could see it.

Chandler

Dunstan

Daw

M. Brown

No opinion on those yet to debut

Prefer triage or anything to cull. Rest of post very thoughtful and well reasoned. There are posts that are gems. This is one. 

. 

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,533]

I think WERRIDEE has started something with this thread.

[daisycutter 28,681]

49 minutes ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

I think WERRIDEE has started something with this thread.

a cull in fitzroy?

gold

[drdrake 3,049]

You could safely say Melksham will be gone, Hibberd is more likely to retire then play on.  Then there are a number of fringe players that might look elsewhere or be cut off the list.

 

[Little Goffy 12,768]

I'm not sure out salary cap position is as bad as it might seem at first glance.

Yes, we have a number of **SUPERSTARSZZZ** who add a lot within the first few names you call out, but then consider just how many value-for-money role players we have out there. I'd also suggest that a few of our older very important players were brought in on front-ended contracts and would not be expecting their peak salaries for their next extension.

But let's focus on the swarm of role-players currently giving excellent service in the best 22;

Nibbler, Harmes, Ben Brown, and Tomlinson are each examples of players who put longer-term deals ahead of getting maximum coin year-by-year. Harmes was the only one of these who signed their new contract while at their best form. As essential mature players contributing their role to a high standard, they have all delivered great value for money.

Fritsch it is hard to know exactly but even though he is terrific, there's still the fact that he is not a 'structural' key forward and he can be inconsistent. Very hard to assess what money he would be considered 'worth' and what his attitude to cash would be.

 

Also worth noting that we actually have a very long 'tail' of kids and top-up types who would be on very little money, from Daw and Mitch Brown at the older end, to 16 players aged 21 or under.

Setting aside Jackson, whose performance plus hype is a bit wild at the moment, there's Spargo, Sparrow, Jordon, Pickett, Rivers, Petty and Bowey. Seven players in our best 22 who are still kids. Contributors, with great futures, but none of these are going to be earning mega-dollars within the next couple of years.

We have a little bit of a shallow list and we were a little lucky that injuries didn't expose our depth too badly in 2021. Also, we just happened to have a whole collection of really solid, respectable young players!

Quick comparison; at present our players 22 years old or less have accumulated 250 games between them. Those up-and-coming Bombers we play on Friday have just over 100 games total from the same age range.

That also takes a different shape to, say, the Bulldogs, who have almost as many games played by kids, but that number is almost entirely in Naughton and Bailey Smith who will, like Jackson, come at a premium. In contrast, we have all those kids who have been picking up games and making steady progress in the normal way that good young players do.

Long story short; our salary cap isn't as tight as it might look, and we don't need to be throwing wads of cash to desperately recruit stars, so we should be able to manage it.

 

[jnrmac 19,310]

On 3/29/2022 at 6:01 PM, pineapple dee said:

Goodwin. ???? ...........Zaharakis ........ ???

Zaharakis?

 

Not sure I have seen him play at Melbourne  What number is he?

[daisycutter 28,681]

1 minute ago, jnrmac said:

Zaharakis?

 

Not sure I have seen him play at Melbourne  What number is he?

he's a covid-add-on player

[leave it to deever 16,089]

On 3/29/2022 at 12:26 PM, Smokey said:

People seem to be missing the point of this thread (unless I'm missing the mark here)

We are undoubtedly going to face salary cap issues in the coming years. This will need to be managed really well by the club

In addition to the obvious ones already mentioned, I would consider moving hunt along while he has value. He's too inconsistent for mine. Handy depth yes, but he's hardly a critical piece. 

HUnt is an interesting one.

Had a tough game last week but its been a while for him playing at this élite level.

Missed a fair bit with injury last year so he may still surprise a few.