On 09/10/2021 at 09:19, BoBo said:

It’s conceivable that by the end of Scott’s 3 years, Geelong will have no:

Hawkins

Selwood

Danger

Stanley

Smith

Thouy

Blicsavs (will be 34)

Rohan (will be 33)

Duncan (will be 33)

Menegola (will be 33)

Besides Stanley and Rohan (allergic to finals)… these are superstars or just out and out guns.

Even Tom Stewart and Cameron will be 32 by the 2025 season. 
 

I don’t see how they’re not going to fall off a cliff.

The cliff is referred to a few times in this thread and with good reason.

They will try again next year. No matter the level of their success, they will have no choice but to rebuild at the end of 2022. How are they going to do it?

Each year any club will have a few young players who haven't made the grade and need to be cut. You simply know they won't make it.

Combine this with the list BoBo provided in the quoted post and you have a serious problem. They won't me able to shed that many players that quickly otherwise they will be topping up with NQR delisted players from other clubs or delving into the deepest parts of the draft.

It will take 3 to 4 years. 

It will then take the players they have drafted at least 4 more to be a force. They are in for a world of pain. Free agency may be their only savior.

  On 09/10/2021 at 21:12, Demon17 said:

The above stats are often quoted but an unrealstic guide to the Cats ability .

Each season they are 'guaranteed 8 or even 9 wins at home due to the draw not scheduling games against big teams in Geelong. Think Suns, Freo, sydney  .... Threats such as Bombers, Tiges, Dogs, Pies rarely ever or never play there over the past decade. Their problem will be in 2022 if the Dees are to play down there. That's one loss coming up.

Understandable given crowd size limts.

But this skews the outcomes and almost locks in at least a top 8 finish each year, only needing to win 4 or 5 games away from home.

Then when the heat is on at the end of the year , it shows.

Scott is still a very good coach but its a whole-of-club problem they need to address.

The ground dimensions don't help them away either.

Their record is an outlier is all I'm saying and not a predictor of finals sucess at the prelim/GF level when they play serious opposition at the G -(or Optus in WA).

We could argue the number of wins, I do agree they don’t get the big teams though, but his record is not just a reflection of home ground advantage. However I think a lot of the knocks on him as a coach are for matters perceived, and not actual. Some of their losses in Finals were pretty bloody close. They play a system, they play it well, he obviously has the teams attention, that doesn’t happen with smoke and mirrors, give the devil his due. All of that said, I think he needs a new game style, we have the keys for his. Unless he finds the next Wayne Carey that chip and pass style will be nothing without a marking beast at CHF, oh and I bet he copies us and comes up with some wing type players. The more I think about it, Melbourne validated having two good rucks in the modern era, and now we have validated wingers, hopefully the torp will come back soon and all will be well with the world (or at least Australia).

  On 08/10/2021 at 21:06, Mazer Rackham said:

The dilemma for the Cats is whether to keep their chip-and-possession game, rack up the wins at Kardinia, and get walloped in finals again.

Or change to a more bruising finals-ready style and have their senior citizens beaten up every week, then get walloped in the finals.

Either way its a Winner Winner chicken dinner for all other teams encountering Cats 🍗 Thats if er they make it at all next year🤣

  On 09/10/2021 at 21:21, Cassiew said:

https://www.collingwoodfc.com.au/news/380365/by-the-numbers-pies-and-cats
 Why do Collingwood get this preferential treatment from the AFL? They’re the only team that doesn’t have to wear an alternative strip (changing the position of logos is not alternate.) I can’t remember the last time we didn’t play Geelong in Geelong. So even during their post premiership years they didn’t have to give Geelong a home game. Totally unfair 

Collingwood aren’t the dominant force they once were. They are now 3rd on the membership ladder with every chance of slipping to 5th next year. They play a pretty ugly style of football and it is difficult to see them making any significant moves up the ladder. 
Melbourne are now the sexy side of the AFL and will be rewarded through the fixture. If the Pies have a poor start to the year and, assuming the rolling fixture remains, they may find themselves in the unfamiliar position of playing lots of Sunday afternoons and even, shock horror, down at Geelong. 

  On 09/10/2021 at 21:27, BAMF said:

The cliff is referred to a few times in this thread and with good reason.

Not this Cliff, however.  He was Young.

  On 09/10/2021 at 21:21, Cassiew said:

1999. The last time they had to play down there. Really? Why do they get this preferential treatment from the AFL?

A certain celebrated TV host, radio announcer, foot-in-mouth hall of fame candidate, and headkicker, who was frequently on the warpath to AFL house and had the head honchos trembling every time.

He is no longer in a position of influence, so it will be very interesting to see how many times the mitey Pies have to go to Perth, Tassie, Geelong, or the G in the Sunday graveyard shift.

Once colloquially known as the Cattery is now the Caterachery.

  On 09/10/2021 at 22:25, FarNorthernD said:

Collingwood aren’t the dominant force they once were. They are now 3rd on the membership ladder with every chance of slipping to 5th next year. They play a pretty ugly style of football and it is difficult to see them making any significant moves up the ladder. 
Melbourne are now the sexy side of the AFL and will be rewarded through the fixture. If the Pies have a poor start to the year and, assuming the rolling fixture remains, they may find themselves in the unfamiliar position of playing lots of Sunday afternoons and even, shock horror, down at Geelong. 

The problem is that also means they didn’t have to play there in 2005, after finishing second last in 2004. So in an era where they finished second last and won a premiership, they still never had to make the trip. Them playing well or bad doesn’t seem to have any effect of them not playing there. Kardinia park is a graveyard for us, yet in all seriousness, I can’t remember a season we haven’t played there. Even after 2011 we had to play a game there. Perhaps someone could tell me when was the last time we didn’t play there. It seems completely unfair 

Edited October 9, 20213 yr by Cassiew

This year Cats played first game in Tas since about 2005

And it was only a Covid relocation game

  On 09/10/2021 at 21:21, Cassiew said:

https://www.collingwoodfc.com.au/news/380365/by-the-numbers-pies-and-cats
 

1999. The last time they had to play down there. Really? Why do they get this preferential treatment from the AFL? They’re the only team that doesn’t have to wear an alternative strip (changing the position of logos is not alternate.) I can’t remember the last time we didn’t play Geelong in Geelong. So even during their post premiership years they didn’t have to give Geelong a home game. Totally unfair 

Right on all counts CW,

but I reckon now the chickens have come home to roost and the cats false sense of entitlement over past lost decade, unsuccessful  in GF terms, have left them nowehere to hide now and nowehere to go for next few years.  I also suspect their idea of being a detsination club who plays finals won't cut it with top players . 

Jeremey Camerons ambiton for a flag disintegrated at the hands of the Dees publicly in the Prelim. Window shut that night.

  On 09/10/2021 at 21:37, DEE fence said:

We could argue the number of wins, I do agree they don’t get the big teams though, but his record is not just a reflection of home ground advantage. However I think a lot of the knocks on him as a coach are for matters perceived, and not actual. Some of their losses in Finals were pretty bloody close. They play a system, they play it well, he obviously has the teams attention, that doesn’t happen with smoke and mirrors, give the devil his due. All of that said, I think he needs a new game style, we have the keys for his. Unless he finds the next Wayne Carey that chip and pass style will be nothing without a marking beast at CHF, oh and I bet he copies us and comes up with some wing type players. The more I think about it, Melbourne validated having two good rucks in the modern era, and now we have validated wingers, hopefully the torp will come back soon and all will be well with the world (or at least Australia).

Agreed and I noted Scott was a very good coach for all your reasons above.

But each year pencil in 9 home game wins and your on a roll. Its a matter of where you land in the 8, not, IF you make the 8.

Transitory view of success showed out in the Prelim in an embarrassing manner

  On 09/10/2021 at 08:39, Axis of Bob said:

In the preliminary final Geelong's 2nd youngest player was Gryan Miers, who was 22 years old. We had 8 players in that game younger than Miers, whilst Geelong had 1 (Max Holmes). 

Our second oldest player in that game was Max Gawn, who was 29 years old. Geelong had 11 players older than Gawn, whilst we had 1 (Hibberd).

They're probably right to try to keep wringing whatever performance they can out of this group because, really, what's the alternative? They have 11 players under 22 on their list and they have combined for 42 games in total .... of which 29 have been played by Jordan Clark who is leaving. It's pretty dire.

We had to buy a couple of snails for our fish tank Recently to suck up the scum. 

We called them Joel and Patrick.

I think Joel has gone into his shell or died.

  On 09/10/2021 at 21:21, Cassiew said:

https://www.collingwoodfc.com.au/news/380365/by-the-numbers-pies-and-cats
 

1999. The last time they had to play down there. Really? Why do they get this preferential treatment from the AFL? They’re the only team that doesn’t have to wear an alternative strip (changing the position of logos is not alternate.) I can’t remember the last time we didn’t play Geelong in Geelong. So even during their post premiership years they didn’t have to give Geelong a home game. Totally unfair 

Either have Essendon or Hawthorn.

Is Chris Scott the right guy ?

  On 08/10/2021 at 21:00, Mazer Rackham said:

Very apt. The Cat's season was like a souffle gone wrong.

...again. 

  On 08/10/2021 at 23:56, Nasher said:

..................................

The cliff is coming. Scott doesn’t see out his three years, and Geelong are set back further by not having recognised the need for a strategy change earlier. It is going to be magnificent.

Scott out by end of 2022.

 

I seriously doubt they will make the finals in 2022. Then they will have a big payout to consider. Stars are fading fast. They will start to get beaten at home then it will really hit the fan 

I actually think he is a very good coach. The players love him, his leaders play for him, and the young players are devoted to him in a way Clarry, Trac and Brayshaw are to Goodwin at the Dees. His record is very good, but their striving for success has a very hard outer limit, especially in 2 ways:

Game style. The chip and charge, incremental "game of inches" requires a skill set that the Cats under Mark Thompson might have got away with (amazing skills those teams). But even those cats of 07 09 and 11 did not chip and charge, they flung it around with breathtakingly quick handballs and kicks. The chip and charge method comes unstuck under fierce pressure and clearly struggles in the finals campaigns.

List management/recruiting. If bringing in elite older talent to support your list is not your main strategy, it can work. Hawks 2013 - 2015, Dees 2021. But if it dominates your strategy and costs you young draft picks, and even the young talent you do get are starved of opportunity, it is a dream killer. Higgins was a recent terrible decision, and even now they have decided to keep Gary Rohan. Bewildering. 

If the Cats start getting belted regularly at Kardinia Park, the State governments $ 120 + million investment into the ground is going to look like an ordinary idea.

Still it was nice that Scott was able to help Dangerfield achieve his dream.................. of being closer to his family. 

To be fair, he does do a good job of getting the best out of his list. 

What’s better than beating Geelong after the siren at Kardinia Park?

The thing about Geelong is when we beat them in the finals in 2018 their team was much stronger than it is now.

  On 09/10/2021 at 23:14, Cassiew said:

The problem is that also means they didn’t have to play there in 2005, after finishing second last in 2004. So in an era where they finished second last and won a premiership, they still never had to make the trip. Them playing well or bad doesn’t seem to have any effect of them not playing there. Kardinia park is was once a graveyard for us, yet in all seriousness, I can’t remember a season we haven’t played there. Even after 2011 we had to play a game there. Perhaps someone could tell me when was the last time we didn’t play there. It seems completely unfair 

 

  On 10/10/2021 at 09:05, pineapple dee said:

If the Cats start getting belted regularly at Kardinia Park, the State governments $ 120 + million investment into the ground is going to look like an ordinary idea.

May have been better to invest in the MFC however there are no votes to gained by doing that.