CHANGES: PF vs Geelong

[demon3165 1,918]

57 minutes ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

I realise you're a Smith fan, but Goodwin has shown all year that players will play only in positions they've trained in or played in (either in the Seniors or VFL). As far as I know, Smith hasn't trained or played as a forward all year. He's not going to be going forward now.

Not quite a Smith fan but I think he is a better forward than backman thats all, was only throwing up.

[demon3165 1,918]

11 minutes ago, Dwight Schrute said:

Have heard from someone who gets good intel that Hunt is all but certain to be right to go, and we're tossing up Hibberd coming back in as well. 

 

I hope not, he looks cooked but only the football dept knows that's the mob thats got us here.

Edited August 30, 2021 by demon3165

[Meggs 569]

Does anyone think GWS can we win?  I fully expect to play Geelong so what’s the best match up.  No change.  

[drdrake 3,037]

21 minutes ago, kev martin said:

I don't get the scapegoating of Smith. Some of Cameron's goals came from others mistakes (Rivers nervousness), a bit of luck (handball over the head), and a nearly, with a touch on the ball that wasn't quite enough. There were also other defenders in the areas and with our zoning roles can't expect shoulder to shoulder defense. 

 

 

It's funny how people are defending TMacs game saying he took a defender which allowed the others to score, then slam Smith.  He had a role that allowed Salem/Bowey/Rivers to be attacking, for May to stay on Daniher, for Lever to have no one on him Petty to focus on beating his opponent.  As a defensive unit we kept the most attacking team to 60 points.  I reckon both teams lost that defensive structure due to nerves in the first quarter, their best defender Andrews got caught ball watching and gave B Brown 10-20m space.  Cameron had a great first qtr then wasn't really sited much after that.

[Demonsone 1,598]

Prelim final requires wise head & experience.....

hibbo big body and experience, Hunt if fit for speed and both have played well....

Unfortunately Bowey still raw & Smith

[Lord Nev 13,511]

1 minute ago, Demonsone said:

Prelim final requires wise head & experience.....

hibbo big body and experience, Hunt if fit for speed and both have played well....

Unfortunately Bowey still raw & Smith

You could argue Bowey has a more 'wise head' than Hunt.

Also, in terms of finals experience: Bowey 1, Hunt 0.

 

[dazzledavey36 48,737]

58 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

Matthew Lloyd had a look at him on the AFL website this morning, suggesting his positioning in some of the one-on-one contests with Cameron was poor.

Athleticism is great but he has to know how, and when, to use it.

We've been banging on about this for weeks yeah? His football IQ is low, and his positioning around contests and stoppages is poor.

Just don't think we can afford to carry a bloke that simply gets lost down back. He costs us goals by being out of position and not paying enough respect to Cameron.

We have 1 shot at it in the prelim. Hibberd and Hunt have to simply come in for Smith now.

[dazzledavey36 48,737]

39 minutes ago, Meggs said:

Does anyone think GWS can we win?  I fully expect to play Geelong so what’s the best match up.  No change.  

Yes I do.

Geelong are cooked. Confidence is high for GWS.

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,397]

Everyone who's commenting on this game saw it on TV - commentators included. How anyone could tell who was playing on Cameron when he kicked those three Q1 goals I have no idea. Certainly, Smith was closest to him for at least two of the goals, but who's to say he wasn't just the quickest defender to react? My concern with Smith is that he lacks experience, continuity and game sense compared with Hunt. It's not Smith's fault and he should be lauded for getting as far as he has. I just think Hunt is a better option. However, if the match committee decide Hunt should replace Bowey, I think Smith may stay in ahead of Hibberd who I fear has reached the end after providing us with excellent service.

[Lord Nev 13,511]

4 minutes ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

Everyone who's commenting on this game saw it on TV - commentators included. How anyone could tell who was playing on Cameron when he kicked those three Q1 goals I have no idea. Certainly, Smith was closest to him for at least two of the goals, but who's to say he wasn't just the quickest defender to react? My concern with Smith is that he lacks experience, continuity and game sense compared with Hunt. It's not Smith's fault and he should be lauded for getting as far as he has. I just think Hunt is a better option. However, if the match committee decide Hunt should replace Bowey, I think Smith may stay in ahead of Hibberd who I fear has reached the end after providing us with excellent service.

Went back through the replay...

Cameron Goal #1 - Smith is 100% on him. Standing right next to him with a hand on him as the ball is about to come in. He leaves Cameron to follow the ball, Cameron gets separation from him and kicks it. Poor by Smith, his fault.

Cameron Goal #2 - Cameron is in the middle, Smith is with him. Smith gets drawn towards the ball and as it comes into the area he turns to get a hand check on Cameron, but it's too late and Charlie is off to the races. Poor by Smith, his fault.

Cameron Goal #3 - Harder to tell, but looks like he was Salem's man at this stage. You can see Smith gesture to Salem after the goal and on the next play Salem is on Cameron. Salem's fault it seems.

Cameron Goal #4 - Smith is on him. Goes to spoil but it comes to ground where Charlie is one of the best. Tough one, but potentially could have done better.

Cameron Goal #5 - Free against Smith for holding. Just beaten by a smarter player in this one.

 

[demon3165 1,918]

If we make the grand final and we play against Port then who is going to take Aliir Aliir if you watched Ports game at the weekend  Tmac will not be able to go with him and that could be a problem but then again lets see how it all unfolds next week.

[Fat Tony 4,403]

2 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

Went back through the replay...

Cameron Goal #1 - Smith is 100% on him. Standing right next to him with a hand on him as the ball is about to come in. He leaves Cameron to follow the ball, Cameron gets separation from him and kicks it. Poor by Smith, his fault.

Cameron Goal #2 - Cameron is in the middle, Smith is with him. Smith gets drawn towards the ball and as it comes into the area he turns to get a hand check on Cameron, but it's too late and Charlie is off to the races. Poor by Smith, his fault.

Cameron Goal #3 - Harder to tell, but looks like he was Salem's man at this stage. You can see Smith gesture to Salem after the goal and on the next play Salem is on Cameron. Salem's fault it seems.

Cameron Goal #4 - Smith is on him. Goes to spoil but it comes to ground where Charlie is one of the best. Tough one, but potentially could have done better.

Cameron Goal #5 - Free against Smith for holding. Just beaten by a smarter player in this one.

 

The second goal was a bad turnover by Rivers where he handed it to Cameron and Smith was spreading from the contest. 

[Lord Nev 13,511]

3 minutes ago, Fat Tony said:

The second goal was a bad turnover by Rivers where he handed it to Cameron and Smith was spreading from the contest. 

He's not "spreading from the contest". Riv turns it over, but look at Smith's positioning in relation to Cameron when it looks like Brisbane will win the ball.

[Demon Disciple 10,935]

1 hour ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Yes I do.

Geelong are cooked. Confidence is high for GWS.

Hopefully if we face GWS, it’ll be without Toby Greene

[Demon Disciple 10,935]

34 minutes ago, demon3165 said:

If we make the grand final and we play against Port then who is going to take Aliir Aliir if you watched Ports game at the weekend  Tmac will not be able to go with him and that could be a problem but then again lets see how it all unfolds next week.

Aliir was taking most of his intercept marks 40+ meters away from goal. Kick it in deeper inside 50 and he will be under more pressure.

Edited August 30, 2021 by Demon Disciple

[fattysback 40]

Surely, the match committee needs to look at the most stable backline that has played all season: Lever/May/Petty/Salem/Rivers/Hunt/Hibberd.

Both Bowey & Smith got a look-in late in the season but I reckon only for that reason – Bowey has certainly changed the dynamic.

For mine its Hunt/Hibberd for Smith/Bowey.

The only other player you’d be looking at is TMac. Melksham is plugnplay but I’d still stick with Tom.

So that’s two unforced changes from a winning QF team.

Medi-Sub goes to either Jordon or Melksham.

Opposition will come at us hard in the PF and if a player goes down early the above provide the most versality. Would probably prefer Melksham.

Jones misses out.

This current team has a hardness that I’ve never seen before – am confident either way.

If we lose the PF, then ignore all of the above.

[DubDee 20,576]

1 hour ago, demon3165 said:

I hope not, he looks cooked but only the football dept knows that's the mob thats got us here.

Didn’t look cooked in around 6 games this year. Played really well. Had some poor games  too and looked slow at times. But I’d back him to perform in a final 

 

[Dwight Schrute 16,751]

I really like Bowey and i'd be keen to see him stay in the side 

I think Hibberd simply has to be picked ahead of Smith. 

and i'd say i've got more confidence in Bowey in a final than Hunt 

 

[DubDee 20,576]

1 hour ago, Meggs said:

Does anyone think GWS can we win?  I fully expect to play Geelong so what’s the best match up.  No change.  

Geelong will cone out firing and have a day extra break. 

I expect a easy win from the Cats and for us to be significantly more concerned next week than we are right now. Selwood, Danger, Henderson etc will not play poor games again

[Macca 16,173]

An argument can definitely be made for Hunt but who goes out might depend on which team we're playing

Can't see us going back to Hibberd and Bowie stays for mine.  So Smith out for Hunt the only change

Either that or no change and we stay tall down back

But we need a bit of dash out of the backline ... Hunt had worked well with Langdon before being injured

Bowie to work with Rivers & Brayshaw gives us some dash on both sides of the ground

Salem often as the distributor to either half-back/Wing

I'm more looking at how we want to play our style rather than being overly concerned with the opposition forward line (we've got May, Lever & Petty to mind the stay-at-home tall forwards)

To be honest, the other teams need to be concerned about our collective backline.  When we're all synced up, it's hard to find avenues through our backline (average score against - 65 points)

[old55 21,297]

48 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

Went back through the replay...

Cameron Goal #1 - Smith is 100% on him. Standing right next to him with a hand on him as the ball is about to come in. He leaves Cameron to follow the ball, Cameron gets separation from him and kicks it. Poor by Smith, his fault.

Cameron Goal #2 - Cameron is in the middle, Smith is with him. Smith gets drawn towards the ball and as it comes into the area he turns to get a hand check on Cameron, but it's too late and Charlie is off to the races. Poor by Smith, his fault.

Cameron Goal #3 - Harder to tell, but looks like he was Salem's man at this stage. You can see Smith gesture to Salem after the goal and on the next play Salem is on Cameron. Salem's fault it seems.

Cameron Goal #4 - Smith is on him. Goes to spoil but it comes to ground where Charlie is one of the best. Tough one, but potentially could have done better.

Cameron Goal #5 - Free against Smith for holding. Just beaten by a smarter player in this one.

 

Accurate analysis. We're in flag mode and Smith wasn't good enough at that level on Cameron who is probably the best going.

Different opposition may be a different proposition.

Port have some class small forwards.

[Willmoy1947 3,772]

30 minutes ago, Demon Disciple said:

Aliir was taking most of his intercept marks 40+ meters away from goal. Kick it in deeper inside 50 and he will be under more pressure.

I would be inclined to play on him like on a forward. He wouldn't like it in my op, and just for a quarter see what happens, and we have good crumbers  for these occasions.Also we are coming in a lot shorter now and the problem just might not pop up that often.

[Chook 14,474]

42 minutes ago, fattysback said:

Surely, the match committee needs to look at the most stable backline that has played all season: Lever/May/Petty/Salem/Rivers/Hunt/Hibberd.

Both Bowey & Smith got a look-in late in the season but I reckon only for that reason – Bowey has certainly changed the dynamic.

For mine its Hunt/Hibberd for Smith/Bowey.

The only other player you’d be looking at is TMac. Melksham is plugnplay but I’d still stick with Tom.

So that’s two unforced changes from a winning QF team.

Medi-Sub goes to either Jordon or Melksham.

Opposition will come at us hard in the PF and if a player goes down early the above provide the most versality. Would probably prefer Melksham.

Jones misses out.

This current team has a hardness that I’ve never seen before – am confident either way.

If we lose the PF, then ignore all of the above.

Goal number 2 was the worst IMO.

You have a young player in Rivers under pressure needing an outlet release option. It's Smith's turn to be that. What does Smith do? Moves towards Rivers but also behind him, making the handpass basically impossible or at the very least much harder to execute.

Naturally, young Rivers coughs it up? Who to? Smith's man Cameron. Just awful. Hibberd would never do something so poor.

EDIT: In the heat of the moment I thought it was Rivers' fault - a young player overawed by the situation. It was actually a settled Melbourne player who has been in the side all year going to where he had been conditioned to think a team mate would be. Smith let him down, because he doesn't know the system yet.

Can't carry that in a big final.

Edited August 30, 2021 by Chook

[Binmans PA 26,051]

On 8/28/2021 at 11:06 PM, titan_uranus said:

This is the contest before Cameron's third goal. Neither Smith (right, next to Berry) or Salem (with ball) are on Cameron (off to the left somewhere). Hard to know who was supposed to be on him here.

Cameron regularly gets sucked out of position. As I think @Dannyz mentioned before the game, the match up was Smith v Cameron.

Never listen to Channel 7 boundary riders unless they're Daisy Pearce. Abby Homles wouldn't know how to tie her own shoelace. Regularly gets injuries wrong and has no feel for the game at all. 

[Lord Nev 13,511]

3 minutes ago, A F said:

Cameron regularly gets sucked out of position. As I think @Dannyz mentioned before the game, the match up was Smith v Cameron.

Never listen to Channel 7 boundary riders unless they're Daisy Pearce. Abby Homles wouldn't know how to tie her own shoelace. Regularly gets injuries wrong and has no feel for the game at all. 

After this goal, Smith can be seen gesturing to Salem and then after the bounce Salem is next to Cameron.

This goal was either due to confusion about who was on him due to a switch not implemented properly or it was on Salem.