An Uncomfortable Read

[Ron Burgundy 8,584]

Like I expect most here, I don’t know the bloke.

But I think it’s relevant that:

- Paul Roos is an astute judge of talent and character and he brought him into the club - he initially played some very good games for us; and

- most of us do not know what it’s like to be the recipient of unsolicited taunts, repeatedly, of a racist nature in circumstances where he’s had a fragile upbringing and probably requires some sensitive handling, not some 1970s Vic Bitter style mysogynistic footy club ‘deal with it’ approach.

He strikes me as a fairly unusual character. That said, I suspect there’s some legitimate smoke to the fire here.

 

[YesitwasaWin4theAges 6,106]

Absolute and utter disgrace to the game Collingwood, Mcguire and co. 

The bigot culture will always exist in the game of AFL when people like Mcguire and Buckley are still lurking in its corridors.

This is usually the case inside institutions of power and authoritative figures within them. No filter and  no accountability to authorities within the game, zero people to answer to.

If these comments about Goodes and Lumumba were made in the NBA, NFL or English Football in today's climate, Maguire and Bucks would have been finished back in 2013.

[Half forward flank 1,022]

4 hours ago, Dame Gaga said:

I found it telling that while Lumumba toed the line at Collingwood with their "side by side" mantra (which they seem to practice when it suits only those in charge), he was considered a thoughtful, level headed role model, consistently being voted by his peers to be in the leadership group.  As soon as he grew tired of the constant racism and homophobia displayed at the club by team mates and staff and called it out (by this time he was older and no longer the young rookie worried about losing his place), he was portrayed as a dramatic trouble maker with an axe to grind. The media believed the gripes of the disgruntled Collingwood voices, including ex players such as Tony Shaw, and took up the narrative of the disturbed young black man with mental issues and ran with it like gleeful vultures who scented a new corpse to prey upon. Shameful.

 A naive starry eyed fan request to meet Barack Obama if the President was to attend an AFL match when he visited Australia turned into a public humiliation for the young 24 year old when the story was leaked by the unsympathetic media. How dare he? Who did he think he was? Another chance to pile derision on the young man.

I am glad Lumumba has found his place in the world, and whatever happiness and peace is in it. He also has an acute awareness of where he and his family comes from, and his heritage. People on shows such as "Who Do You Think You Are?" search for their ancestors, consumed with curiosity about their relatives' experiences. 

Lumumba already knows what trials his ancestors endured and survived. I think he is a survivor as well, and tries hard to make his ancestors proud of him. I wish him and his family well.

Any yet he goes back to neither the Congo or Brasil.

[Cards13 9,117]

1 hour ago, Half forward flank said:

Any yet he goes back to neither the Congo or Brasil.

You think he should go back to where you came from? Wow.

[Half forward flank 1,022]

37 minutes ago, Cards13 said:

You think he should go back to where you came from? Wow.

No.  I dont have an opinion on what he should do, merely pointing out he is searching for his identity which he and the article link to his mothers and his fathers places of birth. He chose neither country and instead went to the states which was at the time of the article literally burning with racial hatred. I can see where you are trying to push the argument and you are way way off. You do not know me.  Have you ever volunteered to help youth. I do and spend about a dozen hours a week doing  so.  And I can tell you thinking that the surname of the stepfather who fed, clothed and educated you and married you mother is not a sign of White colonialism. Change your name back to your birth one by all means but cut the drama.

[rjay 24,191]

48 minutes ago, Half forward flank said:

Change your name back to your birth one by all means but cut the drama.

The drama was amplified by a media just waiting for the next zinger from crazy mixed up Heritier...they couldn't get enough of him, it helped build a narrative about him. There he goes again...

Some of his views maybe over the top, maybe he's just trying to get his point heard.

...it doesn't change the fact that he suffered racial abuse from people who should have known better, people who purport to support their people. It's pretty obvious despite all the window dressing that in the end he wasn't one of their people. They don't respect diversity.

[Half forward flank 1,022]

43 minutes ago, rjay said:

The drama was amplified by a media just waiting for the next zinger from crazy mixed up Heritier...they couldn't get enough of him, it helped build a narrative about him. There he goes again...

Some of his views maybe over the top, maybe he's just trying to get his point heard.

...it doesn't change the fact that he suffered racial abuse from people who should have known better, people who purport to support their people. It's pretty obvious despite all the window dressing that in the end he wasn't one of their people. They don't respect diversity.

Totally agree rjay.  I hate the boys club attitude of the way football clubs are run by people who are paid a lot of money.  He deserved to be treated equally and with respect like everyone else. Unfortunately some did not and still do not see a difference in calling someone a racial nickname to calling a a skinny bloke, bones...Good luck to Heritier, he looks to have a lovely wife and young child. Maybe one day he will give Oz another chance. We can do with his type of personality even though it can be a bit polarising. My hope is that MFC could become the best Club in Australia for cultural diversity for players and supporters. I would take that over winning a flag, wellmaybe.

[dieter 3,325]

6 hours ago, Half forward flank said:

Any yet he goes back to neither the Congo or Brasil.

What the [censored] hell has that got to do with it? He was brought up in our 'culture'!!!!!!I know, go back to where you came from. It doesn't take long for the R Gene to bubble up with some people.

[Half forward flank 1,022]

Last word for me on this one.

I volunteer working with African youth. if anyone here is prepared to get suitable Police checks, go through a induction process and thinks they can help young kids with activities, sporting events, mentors, please private message me for details.

[BDA 20,895]

5 hours ago, Cards13 said:

You think he should go back to where you came from? Wow.

 

53 minutes ago, dieter said:

I know, go back to where you came from. It doesn't take long for the R Gene to bubble up with some people.

@Half forward flank never said that he should go back to where he came from. In the interests of fairness I think you should both clarify your comments because it appears to me that you have deliberately misrepresented what he said to paint a certain picture which is dishonest and downright bad faith commenting.

But I could be wrong so feel free to set the record straight.

[Cranky Franky 1,593]

14 hours ago, Cards13 said:

That you have have missed the point of the lengthy article and your first response was with a line about his “Angolan father” abandoning the family and how “obsessed with himself”  that made Hertier as a footballer and person. Hertier (and f k you @Cranky Franky) for deliberately calling him Harry in your see through reply) has clearly struggled within the confines of Aust let alone the AFL spotlight

You then try to justify it with a “if you don’t know how your father leaving feels”  line while them being hypersensitive to a question about your first post.

The fact you don’t see it is staggering. 

 

Oh good on you Cards - congratulations on being empathic & super duper Woke unlike us poor yokels.

Like most migrants I copped racist taunts through all of primary school & some of high school & we dealt with it & got on with things.

My point is Harry has had a privileged upbringing by most standards & I find him to be a serial windbag.

I find the stories of David Schwarz, Jimmy Bartel, Adam Goodes, Peter Bell  or Aussie Wonnaemirri who all had to overcome difficult situations much more interesting. 

 

 

[dieter 3,325]

1 hour ago, Cranky Franky said:

Oh good on you Cards - congratulations on being empathic & super duper Woke unlike us poor yokels.

Like most migrants I copped racist taunts through all of primary school & some of high school & we dealt with it & got on with things.

My point is Harry has had a privileged upbringing by most standards & I find him to be a serial windbag.

I find the stories of David Schwarz, Jimmy Bartel, Adam Goodes, Peter Bell  or Aussie Wonnaemirri who all had to overcome difficult situations much more interesting. 

 

 

I'm a migrant as well; we arrived in 1956 when I was six. I copped it for being German, and anyone from Greece and Italy and Malta copped it for being 'wogs'. The names you mentioned were brought up in a similar climate, though the new scapegoats now came from Asia. Asians are still classified as Them, especially the Chinese these days,  as are Muslims.

My point is that if you complained in those days you got belted and ostracized even more. We are now supposed to live in more 'enlightened' times, yet the woodwork is full of Cranky Frankys, Half Forward Flankers and the like, some who claim Harry had it 'easy', that he's a Wuss for pointing out how thin the veneer of tolerance and fairness really is.  Wow, is all I can say, WOW!

[Cranky Franky 1,593]

5 hours ago, dieter said:

I'm a migrant as well; we arrived in 1956 when I was six. I copped it for being German, and anyone from Greece and Italy and Malta copped it for being 'wogs'. The names you mentioned were brought up in a similar climate, though the new scapegoats now came from Asia. Asians are still classified as Them, especially the Chinese these days,  as are Muslims.

My point is that if you complained in those days you got belted and ostracized even more. We are now supposed to live in more 'enlightened' times, yet the woodwork is full of Cranky Frankys, Half Forward Flankers and the like, some who claim Harry had it 'easy', that he's a Wuss for pointing out how thin the veneer of tolerance and fairness really is.  Wow, is all I can say, WOW!

Nice work Dieter - your full argument is WOW.

Kindly point out how Harry's experience was more difficult than those of any of the players I mentioned who had real adversity to deal with.

And please let me know how Harry hasn't had an extremely priveleged life up to now.

 

[Queanbeyan Demon 6,203]

On 12/5/2020 at 3:29 PM, dieter said:

So did Leigh Matthews and lots of others: it was 'part of the game' at that time. Has anyone asked Matthews to account for his behind play attacks on Giles, Smith and Bruns???????

As far as i know Dieter, Matthews has never made amends to Bruns, and Bruns can't stand the sight of him.

Edited December 6, 2020 by Queanbeyan Demon

[dieter 3,325]

1 hour ago, Cranky Franky said:

Nice work Dieter - your full argument is WOW.

Kindly point out how Harry's experience was more difficult than those of any of the players I mentioned who had real adversity to deal with.

And please let me know how Harry hasn't had an extremely priveleged life up to now.

 

So Harry L had no adversity to deal with? Um what privilege are you talking about? That he was brought up pretending he was white? Buy a gram of the concept of walking in another's shoes is all I can say to you.

[Dame Gaga 2,453]

17 hours ago, Half forward flank said:

Any yet he goes back to neither the Congo or Brasil.

He has found a welcoming community in South Los Angeles where he says himself he feels a great sense of belonging. Because many African Americans descend from the same land as his ancestors he feels he is with family and comfortable with the culture. 

 He is free to choose to live wherever he wants.

[rjay 24,191]

3 hours ago, Cranky Franky said:

Nice work Dieter - your full argument is WOW.

Kindly point out how Harry's experience was more difficult than those of any of the players I mentioned who had real adversity to deal with.

And please let me know how Harry hasn't had an extremely priveleged life up to now.

 

Does it have to be???

If he experienced the behaviour he says he did at Collingwood and his account has been backed up by teammates then it's just not good enough.

...and that should be all that matters.

What's this point scoring got to do with anything?

Maybe I'm off the mark here 'Cranky', but I don't think so.

[Half forward flank 1,022]

9 hours ago, Dame Gaga said:

He has found a welcoming community in South Los Angeles where he says himself he feels a great sense of belonging. Because many African Americans descend from the same land as his ancestors he feels he is with family and comfortable with the culture. 

 He is free to choose to live wherever he wants.

Of course he is free to choose where to live. For the record there is a thriving South American and growing African community in Melbourne too that is crying out for leaders. Again free to choose but It is not without irony that the Muliticultural Ambassador turns his back and wants to live in and with his own culture. You also need to know African Americans came from many different parts of the African continent and they are not one mono culture. 

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,534]

14 hours ago, Cranky Franky said:

Nice work Dieter - your full argument is WOW.

Kindly point out how Harry's experience was more difficult than those of any of the players I mentioned who had real adversity to deal with.

And please let me know how Harry hasn't had an extremely priveleged life up to now.

 

Why do you keep calling Lumumba "Harry"? 

[dieter 3,325]

32 minutes ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

Why do you keep calling Lumumba "Harry"? 

I was 'quoting' Crank FRank.

[Pickett2Jackson 3,904]

12 hours ago, Dame Gaga said:

He has found a welcoming community in South Los Angeles where he says himself he feels a great sense of belonging. 

 

Hopefully its not Skid Row.

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,534]

1 hour ago, dieter said:

I was 'quoting' Crank FRank.

I was directly asking Cranky Franky. I'm curious as to why he would use "Harry" when Lumumba himself has made clear that he wants to be known as Heritier Lumumba.

It seems to me that anyone should be called by the name they choose. To be called by a name that one has deliberately changed and moved away from, for whatever reason, seems insulting to me. 

Edited December 7, 2020 by La Dee-vina Comedia

[daisycutter 28,727]

11 minutes ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

I was dircetly asking Cranky Frank. I'm curious as to why he would use "Harry" when Lumumba himself has made clear that he wants to be known as Heretier Lumumba.

It seems to me that anyone should be called by the name they choose. To be called by a name that one has deliberately changed and moved away from, for whatever reason, seems insulting to me. 

always throws me a bit when someone changes his name

i once worked with a guy named xxxxx crapp who changed his name in his 40's to some scottish name which i cant remember

somehow crapp always seems to stick

Edited December 6, 2020 by daisycutter
true story

[Pickett2Jackson 3,904]

23 hours ago, dieter said:

What the [censored] hell has that got to do with it? He was brought up in our 'culture'!!!!!!I know, go back to where you came from. It doesn't take long for the R Gene to bubble up with some people.

 

[roy11 3,152]

Much like any recent modern day sport/political crossover I have found the 'comments section' to be concerning.