Farewell Oscar McDonald

[Deestar9 1,596]

18 hours ago, Queanbeyan Demon said:

I humbly admit I was wrong. 

For 47 years I thought Melbourne supporters were different to those of other clubs. Although we have been, in the main, inept for those years, I thought we had the capacity to show some dignity, respect and, for most of us at least, unconditional love for the institution and by implication, its players.

But I was in denial and delusional. 

What I have learnt from this thread is that many are just as egotistical, righteous, ignorant, envious and insecure bully(boys) as other clubs' supporters and those in the broader community. Oscar is not the enemy, just the mirror. It would serve some to cease projecting their own inner demons (pun not intended) on a soul who gave his best and take a deep look inside their hearts and take stock of their own defects of character. The MFC would be better served, and by implication, the broader society, if we appreciated people like Oscar who's been nothing but a demonstration of grace, decency and commitment.

I absolutely agree with this. I just listened to Oscar on the radio & he spoke so well about the club & the handling of his delisting. I just hope he never read the vitriol spouted about him ...I shudder to think who will be the next unfortunate player who gets “dumped” on now he had gone. I sometimes think we forget that the players are just young men who play to the best of their ability but unfortunately we expect them to play to our expectations & they often don’t marry up ! 

[Demonland 71,622]

[jnrmac 20,055]

16 hours ago, JimmyGadson said:

The club is entirely to blame for the sheer amount of criticism Oscar copped over his career. They just simply kept playing him, underdeveloped, underperforming, hoping that he'd come on and ultimately he never did.

I agree that Oscar copped a lot. Unfairly only because he was consistently relied upon over the years to hold down a key position whilst underperforming more often than not.

Posters are beyond out of touch if they truly believe he was never as bad as what some like myself believed. I get the emotion involved in being a supporter and posters like @binmanwho consistently defended him because he was a favourite. Oscar simply shouldn't have been playing AFL football on many many occasions during his career and that is absolutely indisputable given the fact that he didn't find a suitor over the trade period and has now been delisted at under 25 years of age. Think about that for a minute. It's near unprecedented.

Honestly, this club make some absolutely bizarre decisions sometimes and they are to blame entirely for the way Oscar was managed, developed and then delisted.

An embarrassment really.

Whilst I was never a fan (and couldn't for the life of me understand why the club wouldn't target a mature-aged stop gap gorilla to allow Oscar to develop in the twos), I wish him all the best in his future endeavours.

One can only hope the club has learnt from this one because they did everyone including Oscar a disservice in the way they managed him.

Agree with this. A great guy apparently and I wish him well but the fact he stayed for so long at this club when it was clear to most that he had substantial limitations as a footballer is beyond belief. Not one outstanding attribute that you could hang your hat on. He was picked because he was virtually our only tall defensive option.

It's not Oscar's fault but the fact the club persisted with him for so long is embarrassing.

Those that defended him to the death can start wiping the egg off their faces now.

 

[Cranky Franky 2,031]

14 hours ago, JimmyGadson said:

@binmanwith all due respect, it's near impossible to talk to you about Oscar. 

It wasn't long ago you were making bets that he wouldn't be dropped over the course of a season, then it turned to how many games he'd play in a year or something.. Now he's been delisted and you're trying to catch me out for something I've never said in the hope he's going to land a rookie contract somewhere? You're like the black knight from Python's 'The Holy Grail'.

I get that you're super passionate about the guy. Good for you. But you're wrong about him when it comes to assessing his ability at league level.

If we can all agree, (which we can), that there are plenty of footballers in this country who could be playing AFL level football but are not for varying reasons, then we can surely agree that there are footballers who have been and are playing AFL football who perhaps shouldn't be, also for varying reasons.

I don't understand this black and white 'AFL standard' BS at have been withat posters talk about. Oscar obviously has some level of ability and along with a myriad of factors, he ended up being drafted to a team extremely light on for key position depth and quality who ultimately decided that playing him early would fast track his development rather tan building him through the twos. In my estimation, that was an error. I said it at the time and ultimately, fast forward six years and the guy has been delisted. Not even kept for backup. What does orters that tell you @binman? I postedmean really, what does it tell you?

Oscar at best was serviceable. And at worst was a complete and utter liability.

He did not develop and his weaknesses were so clearly magnified at AFL level.

He lacked intensity and was too slow in his movement.

Take note that I'm not saying "I told you so". But you must wake up and smell the roses mate. He is not the player you thought he was and the club failed him as well.

Your comments about Oscar are the most sensible out of the 400+ that have been posted.

My real worry is that most average supporters worked out 5 years ago that Oscar was not up to 

It yet the highly paid professionals in our Footy Dpt couldn't see the obvious.

[titan_uranus 24,975]

22 hours ago, poita said:

Really disappointed with this decision. I like Oscar as a player and think he has been harshly treated by the coaching staff over the past two years.

Both Frost and McDonald are now gone from the defence that took us to a preliminary final, and the star replacements have, far from improving us, actually made us worse.

We are now critically light on for genuine key defenders and are now only an injury to May away from having Lever and Smith / Hore in the key defensive posts. That is a huge concern to me, particularly when you consider what the twin towers at Geelong, Richmond or West Coast could do against such feeble opposition.

I wish Oscar well, and hope that he can find a new club as a delisted free agent. I suspect there are plenty of clubs out there looking for a ready made defender on the cheap.

Your anti-Lever bias is outstanding but if think May and Lever have "made us worse", I really don't think there's much point having any ongoing debates with you on the topic.

As far as I'm concerned, that position is wholly untenable. Our defence, on any fair metric, was superior in 2020 to what it was in 2018, when it was our biggest weakness. The argument that Frost/OMac in 2018 = preliminary final is a classic case of correlation vs causation.

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,693]

1 hour ago, Deestar9 said:

I absolutely agree with this. I just listened to Oscar on the radio & he spoke so well about the club & the handling of his delisting. I just hope he never read the vitriol spouted about him ...I shudder to think who will be the next unfortunate player who gets “dumped” on now he had gone. I sometimes think we forget that the players are just young men who play to the best of their ability but unfortunately we expect them to play to our expectations & they often don’t marry up ! 

Step up Alex Neal-Bullen. Your time is now.

Let me add, I like ANB as a player but wonder why he hasn't been used in other positions other than small forward. He seems to play on-ball at Casey. I know his skills aren't great, but given running is his best "skill", I would have thought giving him a role where he can make best use of that talent might get the best out of him. For example, could he be a wingman? Or a tagger?

[DeeSpencer 25,477]

5 minutes ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

Step up Alex Neal-Bullen. Your time is now.

Let me add, I like ANB as a player but wonder why he hasn't been used in other positions other than small forward. He seems to play on-ball at Casey. I know his skills aren't great, but given running is his best "skill", I would have thought giving him a role where he can make best use of that talent might get the best out of him. For example, could he be a wingman? Or a tagger?

He’s not a small forward tho. He plays the high half forward role where running is a premium, probably only equaled by the wingers. His job is to close down space and burst in to space, like an accordion. It’s more running than on ballers. 

He doesn’t have the smarts to play wing and he’s bad in close - lacks any power or step to get through traffic - which is why he’s not an on baller. 

[Kent 2,906]

4 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

He’s not a small forward tho. He plays the high half forward role where running is a premium, probably only equaled by the wingers. His job is to close down space and burst in to space, like an accordion. It’s more running than on ballers. 

He doesn’t have the smarts to play wing and he’s bad in close - lacks any power or step to get through traffic - which is why he’s not an on baller. 

I don't mind him at all gets a job each week and does it there could be better but he works harder than Melksham. Works hard for opportunity doesn't always take advantage.

whos position next year must be up for grabs unless he pulls his finger out

If Goody wasn't the coach Jakie would probably be gone

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,693]

1 hour ago, DeeSpencer said:

He’s not a small forward tho. He plays the high half forward role where running is a premium, probably only equaled by the wingers. His job is to close down space and burst in to space, like an accordion. It’s more running than on ballers. 

He doesn’t have the smarts to play wing and he’s bad in close - lacks any power or step to get through traffic - which is why he’s not an on baller. 

Lovely description.

And I appreciate your explanation about his role.  

Edited November 19, 2020 by La Dee-vina Comedia
typo

[Wiseblood 24,637]

The only thing I find confusing in this thread is anyone believing that holding on to Lynden Dunn would have been a good thing.  It was absolutely his time to go.

 

[Elegt 872]

1 hour ago, Wiseblood said:

The only thing I find confusing in this thread is anyone believing that holding on to Lynden Dunn would have been a good thing.  It was absolutely his time to go.

 

Strongly disagree. He got shafted for Oscar mcdonald and there were no other tall options apart from frost. Sure dunn wasn't a great player in his later years however he was far better than oscar

[DeeSpencer 25,477]

1 hour ago, Wiseblood said:

The only thing I find confusing in this thread is anyone believing that holding on to Lynden Dunn would have been a good thing.  It was absolutely his time to go.

 

Disagree. He had an awful season due to personal issues and being out of shape. Bounced back and played really well for the Pies. We should’ve stuck with him, Oscar wasn’t ready and has shown to never be ready. Hardly a huge issue because Dunn ended up perennially injured and we needed a May type anyway but we discarded Dunn too early.

[Wiseblood 24,637]

1 minute ago, DeeSpencer said:

Disagree. He had an awful season due to personal issues and being out of shape. Bounced back and played really well for the Pies. We should’ve stuck with him, Oscar wasn’t ready and has shown to never be ready. Hardly a huge issue because Dunn ended up perennially injured and we needed a May type anyway but we discarded Dunn too early.

Couldn't disagree more.

Dunn showed numerous times that he was unwilling to work within the defensive system that Roos wanted to play.  So he flicked him.  Okay, he played okay at the Pies when he wasn't injured, but I don't think he makes any different in the W/L column for us at all. 

I'd like to say that he wouldn't have done any better than Oscar, but that's revisionist type stuff.  We'll never know, but I really don't think he would have made a lick of difference to our side had he stayed.

[Turner 1,507]

On 11/17/2020 at 7:15 PM, Redleg said:

Actually, if he loses more weight as he is doing and gets his foot right, there is no reason he can’t play decent footy.

i disagree, this year he refused to even crash packs and lead up at the footy dont care how heavy u are u can at least put effort in. and if his foot wasn't right well why did he play at all.

re dunny, i think the time was right given the direction of the club to look at a younger promising alternative who was the same age profile as the rest of the list, just a shame that Omac didnt come on the way we would have liked, its a shame we flicked frosty and not Omac when we had the chance last summer but the correct decision has been made now and its over to u Mr Petty to make CHB ur own because i've seen enough of Smith back there for now 

[DeeSpencer 25,477]

6 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

Couldn't disagree more.

Dunn showed numerous times that he was unwilling to work within the defensive system that Roos wanted to play.  So he flicked him.  Okay, he played okay at the Pies when he wasn't injured, but I don't think he makes any different in the W/L column for us at all. 

I'd like to say that he wouldn't have done any better than Oscar, but that's revisionist type stuff.  We'll never know, but I really don't think he would have made a lick of difference to our side had he stayed.

Dunn’s career best season was 2014 under Roos, he was fringe AA. 2015 he was good as well. He struggled when Goodwin changed the game plan to zone based in 2016 but that was a rough year for him personally and he was out of shape. Goodwin thought Oscar played the zone far better than Dunn.

He was excellent for a year and half at Collingwood and if he got fit and got on board with Goody he would’ve absolutely helped us win games in 17/18. Ultimately he was injured from mid 2018 so it doesn’t really matter. It’s all hypothetical but would Oscar be better having to develop in the VFL behind Dunn in 17/18? I don’t think it would’ve changed but we’ll never know.

[dazzledavey36 54,285]

Look, I'm with @JimmyGadson on this one. I think its an indictment on the club that he's played 81 games. Towards the end of 2016 I raised concerns that he'd need to really improve his awareness and improve his intensity and hunger for the contests. I was then shocked to find in the early round of 2017 that he had not improved this one bit or rectifiedby the coaches. Yet the club continued to persist every week on the back of poor form. What was also telling was opposition forwards worked him out and exposed him through the zone set up out the back for his slow reactive play and turning speed.

The recruitment of Steven May showed the coaching staff finally woke up and realised a backline of Frost and McDonald was never ever going to take us to the promise land.

I do wish him all the best and he's switched. I do think he'll add depth to a club that needs a role player some weeks. 

[hemingway 7,615]

Irrespective of the reasons, I will always feel sorry for players that are sacked by the club. It’s a tough business and decisions have to be made in the best interests of the club, but it’s hard for the individual player. To be told publicly that you are not good enough is hurtful. 

Do clubs offer termination type counselling for sacked players? I’m talking about players that are not picked up by another club but are left out in limbo land? 

[Deefiant 441]

14 hours ago, Pates said:

I'll just throw one out there from us: Michael Newton. Ironically another KPP, delisted at 24 in 2011.

I'm sure there would be more if I really wanted to look. 

Did I really need a /s there? 

[kallangurdemon 551]

29 minutes ago, hemingway said:

Irrespective of the reasons, I will always feel sorry for players that are sacked by the club. It’s a tough business and decisions have to be made in the best interests of the club, but it’s hard for the individual player. To be told publicly that you are not good enough is hurtful. 

Do clubs offer termination type counselling for sacked players? I’m talking about players that are not picked up by another club but are left out in limbo land? 

To be fair to the club they did try to trade Oscar prior to  delisting him but Oscar had no trade currency .It was obvious in 2019 that Oscar still wasnt up to it but the club honoured the final year of his contract .He has nothing to complain about and the separation should be on good terms ,Oscar has the draft open to him but i think his AFL days are over .

[BDA 22,735]

58 minutes ago, hemingway said:

Irrespective of the reasons, I will always feel sorry for players that are sacked by the club. It’s a tough business and decisions have to be made in the best interests of the club, but it’s hard for the individual player. To be told publicly that you are not good enough is hurtful. 

Do clubs offer termination type counselling for sacked players? I’m talking about players that are not picked up by another club but are left out in limbo land? 

I think clubs help players prepare for post career through study training skills development etc.

The end comes at a young age irrespective of whether you were 24 - 34 when you stop playing. All players have a long post career life.

[Deemania since 56 6,609]

17 hours ago, Undeeterred said:

At risk of invoking with the old adage about arguing with fools, who exactly would you have played instead of Oscar in all these games he was ‘gifted’?

Name names he should have been behind, but played in front of. 

Frosty, for starters ... he may have hit the mark earlier - several years ago - probably would have achieved far more as he had talents and was our excitement machine - getting better by the game. Frosty was an ideal subject to develop - but alas, Goodwin decided that it was not to be so he underwent his own remediation and intensity for the ball. 

[JimmyGadson 3,455]

18 hours ago, Undeeterred said:

Sorry, but if you're saying that it's 'near unprecedented' for players to be delisted under 25 years, you have absolutely zero credibility. I'll give you a crack at clarifying, because that's surely not what you actually meant. 

And if you did, between the rest of us I think we could probably come up with 20 names just from our own club this has happened to. Corey Wagner, this year, for a start. 

 

17 hours ago, Deefiant said:

Corey was delisted in the same year. Obviously Oscar set the precedence. 

 

16 hours ago, Pates said:

I'll just throw one out there from us: Michael Newton. Ironically another KPP, delisted at 24 in 2011.

I'm sure there would be more if I really wanted to look. 

 

All I can say is that you just have absolutely no idea what you're on about if you can't see the difference in the way Oscar's career has been handled compared to those you mentioned. 

Surely I don't need to baby you through Oscar's case study again. Did I ever once mention that it's unprecedented for players to be delisted under the age of 25? 

How on earth are you unable to differentiate between the way Oscar's career was managed vs Newton's?

 

 

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,693]

On 11/18/2020 at 4:57 PM, JimmyGadson said:

Posters are beyond out of touch if they truly believe he was never as bad as what some like myself believed. I get the emotion involved in being a supporter and posters like @binmanwho consistently defended him because he was a favourite. Oscar simply shouldn't have been playing AFL football on many many occasions during his career and that is absolutely indisputable given the fact that he didn't find a suitor over the trade period and has now been delisted at under 25 years of age. Think about that for a minute. It's near unprecedented.

 

 

36 minutes ago, JimmyGadson said:

Surely I don't need to baby you through Oscar's case study again. Did I ever once mention that it's unprecedented for players to be delisted under the age of 25? 

 

 

 

You're confusing me JG. Yes, you did say it is "near unprecedented" for players to be delisted under the age of 25.

The following Melbourne players drafted between 2010 and 2014 were all delisted before they reached the age of 25. (This list excludes anyone traded in that was delisted before they turned 25.)  

Lucas Cook, Troy Davis, Rory Taggert, Josh Tynan, Jimmy Toumpas, Daniel Nicholson, Dean Terlich, Michael Evans, JKH, Mitch Clisby, Billy Stretch.

Am I misunderstanding the point you're making?

[Deefiant 441]

37 minutes ago, JimmyGadson said:

All I can say is that you just have absolutely no idea what you're on about if you can't see the difference in the way Oscar's career has been handled compared to those you mentioned. 

Surely I don't need to baby you through Oscar's case study again. Did I ever once mention that it's unprecedented for players to be delisted under the age of 25? 

How on earth are you unable to differentiate between the way Oscar's career was managed vs Newton's?

I might have no idea, but you have far less idea about the English language. How else are we meant to interpret: 

" Oscar simply shouldn't have been playing AFL football on many many occasions during his career and that is absolutely indisputable given the fact that he didn't find a suitor over the trade period and has now been delisted at under 25 years of age. Think about that for a minute. It's near unprecedented."

I am still struggling to see what is unprecedented. Player is given games and kept on the list because we think he might come good. Does not come become the player we thought he could be. Delisted before 25. If you think that's "unprecedented" I'd like to know what you have done to be able to block large periods between 2007 and now out. 

[dimmy 1,307]

Some people simply cannot let the bloke leave the Club gracefully, because he didn't bucket the Club in his interview. However some simply have to have a cheap shot at the bloke as he leaves the building.

So what,if he has limited ability. He was draft pick 51 so knew he had to work his bum off to at least play a few games. Credit to his attitude and efforts !!!!!!