On 01/10/2020 at 04:28, Cards13 said:

Who finished 7th in our BnF last year?

Salem

He had plenty of heart and gave his all but footy wise he was a liability. I’m delighted he’s doing well because he’s a very likeable character but moving on average players for a 2nd rounder is very good business imv.

By and large we’ve been making good list management decisions. Trading Frost was not a mistake.

  On 01/10/2020 at 03:06, picket fence said:

In my view this result  vindicates the "Blunder" of letting him go when we did. I saw enough of him in HAWKS games to say that his "Percieved"  deficiencies have been eradicated to a greater degree and he played some good solid football. Its interesting to see what coaches that know how to get the best out of players do so. I reckon though, that Sam Frost will continue to improve not dissimilar to Bachar Houli when he went from Essendon to Richmond. If that happens then the blunder in letting him go will be even more pronounced and damning. I  Was disappointed to see him leave Melbourne and even more so now!

Terrible mistake to keep OMac getting a game. He was getting to be extremely valuable, our Frosty.

  On 01/10/2020 at 03:35, DeeSpencer said:

5 spots below Mitchell who wouldn’t get a game for us.

I’d still prefer Frosty over Tomlinson, but not crying over split milk 

Mitchell would get a game for us.

  On 01/10/2020 at 03:06, picket fence said:

In my view this result  vindicates the "Blunder" of letting him go when we did. I saw enough of him in HAWKS games to say that his "Percieved"  deficiencies have been eradicated to a greater degree and he played some good solid football. Its interesting to see what coaches that know how to get the best out of players do so. I reckon though, that Sam Frost will continue to improve not dissimilar to Bachar Houli when he went from Essendon to Richmond. If that happens then the blunder in letting him go will be even more pronounced and damning. I  Was disappointed to see him leave Melbourne and even more so now!

You are kidding aren’t you? 7th in their b&f for a very average team who would have played over 40 players this year. 

Interestingly, Frost is 27 and has played 107 games in 9 seasons of AFL football ... but only ever played a single winning season, which was 2018 when he was part of our end of season charge. 

He's getting a full AFL career as a journeyman defender, and I'm happy to see him getting regular AFL games at Hawthorn in the second half of his career.

  On 01/10/2020 at 07:33, Half forward flank said:

Mitchell would get a game for us.

Not in the first half of this year, a shadow of the player he was in his brownlow. Completely ineffectual and can only play on ball. Probably battle through on a flank like Harmes or Gus.

It's misguided to think of it as Frost v O Mac. Frost had one good year because all the other defenders were out injured. His contract came up and he tried to hold the club over a barrel demanding considerable overs. Hawks needed him more than us and were prepared to pay the overs. The salary cap was already massively over committed in the backline. I'd take Petty over him any day. Once fit, assuming he plays back not forward we would be having an issue fitting him in anyway.  Salary cap still has to be allocated to other areas of the ground. He forced the club's hand. I liked Frosty but we effectively got Langdon for him and he already is having way more impact on the team than Frost's departure will ever have.

Good luck to him. It's a win win as far as I'm concerned.  

Edited October 1, 20204 yr by It's Time

  On 01/10/2020 at 05:32, A F said:

This thread is laughable, @picket fence.

And @DeeSpencer, I'd take Tomlinson over Frost every day of the week. One is a headless chook, the other you don't see much of and the players around him step up. Classic role player. Frost... classic headless chook.

The 21st century has seen a rise in project players. I hope we witness a decline in these speculative athletes with little football understanding. It's not something you can suddenly teach to a 20 year old that's used to running around in circles on an Aths track. Probably explains why he runs around in circles on a football field.

Really AF......Tomlinson is the slowest bloke we have on our list! Averaging 12.5 disposals a game & on $500k or $600k per year & you would rather take him over Frosty? Pft!

We all know Frosty makes some blues, however, what he can do better than most is take the game on! The modern game is screaming out for fast elusive players that break the lines & carry the ball 100m & you would prefer to have a player that kicks the ball sideways 10m?

Give me a break!

  On 01/10/2020 at 08:40, Laughing Goat said:

Really AF......Tomlinson is the slowest bloke we have on our list! Averaging 12.5 disposals a game & on $500k or $600k per year & you would rather take him over Frosty? Pft!

We all know Frosty makes some blues, however, what he can do better than most is take the game on! The modern game is screaming out for fast elusive players that break the lines & carry the ball 100m & you would prefer to have a player that kicks the ball sideways 10m?

Give me a break!

I see you wanted to play Frost alongside Hunt. I think you'd enjoy the APS Aths carnival. Those two might be okay in the 50m sprint. At least Hunt's improved his game sense, but still has no consistency whatsoever.

  On 01/10/2020 at 08:40, Laughing Goat said:

Really AF......Tomlinson is the slowest bloke we have on our list! Averaging 12.5 disposals a game & on $500k or $600k per year & you would rather take him over Frosty? Pft!

We all know Frosty makes some blues, however, what he can do better than most is take the game on! The modern game is screaming out for fast elusive players that break the lines & carry the ball 100m & you would prefer to have a player that kicks the ball sideways 10m?

Give me a break!

he's not on anything like that sort of coin

frost was a -100m player - runs 15, kicks it 50, then stands still while the ball sails over his head 35m from his inevitable turnover

 

  On 01/10/2020 at 07:47, DeeSpencer said:

Not in the first half of this year, a shadow of the player he was in his brownlow. Completely ineffectual and can only play on ball. Probably battle through on a flank like Harmes or Gus.

He was coming back from a year out of the game. Brings others into the game.

His dramatic improvement thanks to manifestly superior coaching certainly is notable.

In just one year he's gone from 9th B&F in a bottom four team to 7th B&F in a bottom four team.

Best of luck to him and there's every reason to believe he'll crank out three or four more seasons of respectable football, but there's nothing of great importance to Melbourne in this.

Just be happy that Frostball didn't propel Hawthorn back up the ladder and we've now got (Hawthorn's) pick 23 in this draft thanks to the trade.

  On 01/10/2020 at 03:15, CYB said:

I will maintain that letting Frost go, ahead of OMac was a massive oversight that i still cannot understand. Yes he was a turnover king, but so were half the team. The only reason we noticed him more is that half back turnovers whilst in transition usually result in scores against. 

Easy to understand CYB - we got offered a second rounder for a player outside of our best 22. Of course if we got offered this for O Mac we would have taken it. I imagine Frost was keen to leave also to get more opportunities. So it is not a case of choosing one over the other. We worked with the circumstances in front of us

Incidentally, we then used the draft pick from frost to help get Langdon 

  On 01/10/2020 at 08:40, Laughing Goat said:

$500k or $600k

You said $800k earlier so it looks like you're just taking wild guesses here.

Good on Frost for a top 10 B&F finish.

But that's not really evidence to support the argument that we were wrong to trade him.

The matches I saw of Hawthorn he seemed to be pretty decent, what we would’ve said “a bright spot in a lot of darkness” during those disaster years. But I still have no issues with letting him go, he wouldn’t have been getting a regular game for us no matter which way you look at it. One thing I’ll say about trading out players is that it’s rare it has really bitten us. 

This has given him a chance to get a more fulfilled career so good luck to him. 7th B&F at a bottom 4 club? I’m not losing at sleep. 

AKA the 412th  best player in the comp.

  On 01/10/2020 at 09:34, titan_uranus said:

Good on Frost for a top 10 B&F finish.

But that's not really evidence to support the argument that we were wrong to trade him.

As much as anything, evidence that Hawthorn have no real backline depth, leaving Frost to play every game.

No regrets.

  On 01/10/2020 at 07:38, Axis of Bob said:

Interestingly, Frost is 27 and has played 107 games in 9 seasons of AFL football ... but only ever played a single winning season, which was 2018 when he was part of our end of season charge. 

He's getting a full AFL career as a journeyman defender, and I'm happy to see him getting regular AFL games at Hawthorn in the second half of his career.

WTF is this post doing on 'Land?

In a truly dark time for humanity, this thread was the lol I needed. 

  On 01/10/2020 at 08:06, It's Time said:

It's misguided to think of it as Frost v O Mac. Frost had one good year because all the other defenders were out injured. His contract came up and he tried to hold the club over a barrel demanding considerable overs. Hawks needed him more than us and were prepared to pay the overs. The salary cap was already massively over committed in the backline. I'd take Petty over him any day. Once fit, assuming he plays back not forward we would be having an issue fitting him in anyway.  Salary cap still has to be allocated to other areas of the ground. He forced the club's hand. I liked Frosty but we effectively got Langdon for him and he already is having way more impact on the team than Frost's departure will ever have.

Good luck to him. It's a win win as far as I'm concerned.  

That is complete billshut.  Why do you have to make things up to further your argument ?

Frost wanted a modest 2 year deal & we offered 1 year.

By any objective measure he is a mile ahead of Oscar and even if you are super generous to Tomlinson then you could say he is on a par with Frost but is on 1 & a half times the $.

It was a stupid, dumb decision that took us backwards.

 

Ah, yay? 

  On 01/10/2020 at 10:23, Cranky Franky said:

It was a stupid, dumb decision that took us backwards.

 

If going "backwards" is moving from 17th last year to 9th this year, yes it did.

My understanding was that it wasn’t whether or not he could play, but what he was demanding in regards to contract length and size.  The MFC’s view wasn’t that he was bad, just that he wasn’t that good.

I liked him, but haven’t really missed him.