Robert Muir

[Pates 9,537]

I struggled to get though most of it, there were points I had tears in my eyes it's such a sad read. You can't help but wonder how many other players experienced this sort of awful treatment and how many amazing players were not only lost to the game but struggled to get themselves out of worse situations. The "defense" by his advocate at one of his tribunal appearances made me want to vomit it was so full of racist vitriol and bile.

I'm glad his story got told, it needed to be heard to ensure we are always looking to do better. I hope this prompts St Kilda (and all clubs) to continue to reach out to their past indigenous players. 

[rjay 23,925]

15 minutes ago, Pates said:

The "defense" by his advocate at one of his tribunal appearances made me want to vomit it was so full of racist vitriol and bile.

If you watched some of the footy from Darwin the other night.

Good old BT was pushing out some really condescending stuff about the fans that wasn't great to say the least.

He's of my generation and I know he didn't mean it but at the same time so many just don't really get it.

We've got a long, long way to go.

[rjay 23,925]

5 hours ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

st-kilda-apologises-to-former-player-robert-muir

Kudos for the apology.  But do they have to wait until a harrowing story is in the media.

It behoves all clubs to look back at those that have worn their jumper and reach out before the media spotlight past wrongs.  Those wrongs weren't seen as wrongs at the time; sadly it is how our society was.  Nor can those wrongs be undone.  But the player can be embraced for what they contributed to the club.

Now that's the way to apologise, I hope they back it up with actions.

At least they're not holding a royal commission like Eddie's mob.

[Sir Why You Little 34,590]

48 minutes ago, A F said:

I agree, but this was also clearly a societal and competition-wide thing. 

 

No. St. Kilda left Muir out to dry. Other indigenous players were treated like Royalty compared to Robert. I used to go to The Saints Disco on friday nights quite often, back in the day. It was a crazy place

Edited August 23, 2020 by Sir Why You Little

[Binmans PA 26,225]

15 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

No. St. Kilda left Muir out to dry. Other indigenous players were treated like Royalty compared to Robert. I used to go to The Saints Disco on friday nights quite often, back in the day. It was a crazy place

Hang on a second. Are you really suggesting that Indigenous footballers were treated as royalty? You've got to be kidding.

Edited August 23, 2020 by A F

[Sir Why You Little 34,590]

6 minutes ago, A F said:

Hang on a second. Are you really suggesting that Indigenous footballers were treated as royalty? You've got to be kidding.

No. I am saying many indigenous players were treated like Royalty compared to Muir. He was treated that badly. 
 

He went off like no other player i have ever seen. Saints Crowds at Moorabbin loved it

[Winners at last 4,742]

1 hour ago, rjay said:

If you watched some of the footy from Darwin the other night.

Good old BT was pushing out some really condescending stuff about the fans that wasn't great to say the least.

He's of my generation and I know he didn't mean it but at the same time so many just don't really get it.

We've got a long, long way to go.

Agree. His patronising comments about the indigenous members of the crowd were clueless and disrespectful. He's a meathead ... just doesn't get it. 

[layzie 28,935]

1 hour ago, Pates said:

I struggled to get though most of it, there were points I had tears in my eyes it's such a sad read. You can't help but wonder how many other players experienced this sort of awful treatment and how many amazing players were not only lost to the game but struggled to get themselves out of worse situations. The "defense" by his advocate at one of his tribunal appearances made me want to vomit it was so full of racist vitriol and bile.

I'm glad his story got told, it needed to be heard to ensure we are always looking to do better. I hope this prompts St Kilda (and all clubs) to continue to reach out to their past indigenous players. 

I had to read it in two sittings it was that full on.

[Pickett2Jackson 3,904]

The Footy Show might be the worst  Aussie TV show ever,  apologies to Rove Live .

[Earl Hood 5,789]

51 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

No. St. Kilda left Muir out to dry. Other indigenous players were treated like Royalty compared to Robert. I used to go to The Saints Disco on friday nights quite often, back in the day. It was a crazy place

Reading the article this morning and then reflecting on it there are numerous players who attacked, taunted and villified Robbie and numerous officials who looked the other way but you know who failed him most, his own Saints team mates! No lack of enforcers in those days to protect him from physical abuse, spitting, hair grabbing and plain racial abuse on the field. Yet he got no protection from the senior players on his own side. Wasn’t that the basic mantra in 70’s footy folk law, we stick up for each other against the opposition, it’s us against them? They let him down big time but I don’t think he was ever accepted into the side despite his enormous talent. He was left to fight his own battles. 

[Sir Why You Little 34,590]

11 minutes ago, Earl Hood said:

Reading the article this morning and then reflecting on it there are numerous players who attacked, taunted and villified Robbie and numerous officials who looked the other way but you know who failed him most, his own Saints team mates! No lack of enforcers in those days to protect him from physical abuse, spitting, hair grabbing and plain racial abuse on the field. Yet he got no protection from the senior players on his own side. Wasn’t that the basic mantra in 70’s footy folk law, we stick up for each other against the opposition, it’s us against them? They let him down big time but I don’t think he was ever accepted into the side despite his enormous talent. He was left to fight his own battles. 

I was alluding more to the fact that The St. Kilda Crowd at Moorabbin used to get him fired up as well. 
It was a Fearsome 40,000 crowd when they were pumped. 
sometimes Players did help him out, but i really don’t think many wanted to go near him when he got the true “White Line Fever”

It’s hard to explain if you didn’t see him play live, compared to todays game, where a love tap can get 2 weeks. 
Robbie Muir made that Club a lot of money, apart from his football skills. 
he was a bigger version of R Flower. He had the same skill level, very sad that he was vilified the way he was

[YesitwasaWin4theAges 5,819]

12 hours ago, Cranky Franky said:

Interesting article.  He was a very good footballer but geez he had a hair trigger temper & white line fever.  I found the article a bit one sided as everything that happens is always someone else's fault.

He clearly had a tough life but it would have been nice if he had admitted to some mistakes he made but clearly he didn't get the help & support he needed at the time.

Anyhow hope he gets the $ for his operation & gets more recognition for his talents & career.

 

 

So you would be alright with full beer cans and coins being pelted at your head on a week by week basis, along with all the verbal, spiting and carry on?

The VFL/AFL still have a code to this day of treating people of different cultures with disdain.

Saints, Woodville-West Torrens,AFL, Malcolm Blight, Bill Sanders, Alister McCalister, Collingwood, Geelong should be ashamed of themselves absolutely disgraceful bigots the lot of them.

John Northey take a bow.

[kev martin 9,215]

I was there at Moorabbin when he knocked out Flower with a king hit.

Thuggery, did the crowd hate him because he was a thug or to vilify him? I believe both to some degree,  exaggerating the other.

Did the coach set him up to take out our best player? For sure, given the disrespect he was getting according to the article. 

Did Flower vilify him? Can't imagine that because flower didn't like to even be tackled, so why bring the heat on himself.

I think it is an excuse for a poorly formed personality.

Why not have an apology to those he hurt.

At the time, I had no idea of racial differences or vilifications in society. For me and the family I was brought up in people were people (with origins that are varied).

I was maybe 14 yrs and so quite impressionable. He appeared to have so much hate.

I now know about the privileges I gained, in  terms of opportunities and not facing many barriers to be involved in the wider world.

I would welcome any feedback on my inappropriate views.

Respect is earned by actions, not their origins.

I think we can all be victims to some extent.

Though persecution and attempted genocide of their people are big barriers.

 

 

 

Edited August 23, 2020 by kev martin

[Deebymistake 649]

57 minutes ago, kev martin said:

I was there at Moorabbin when he knocked out Flower with a king hit.

Thuggery, did the crowd hate him because he was a thug or to vilify him? I believe both to some degree,  exaggerating the other.

Did the coach set him up to take out our best player? For sure, given the disrespect he was getting according to the article. 

Did Flower vilify him? Can't imagine that because flower didn't like to even be tackled, so why bring the heat on himself.

I think it is an excuse for a poorly formed personality.

Why not have an apology to those he hurt.

At the time, I had no idea of racial differences or vilifications in society. For me and the family I was brought up in people were people (with origins that are varied).

I was maybe 14 yrs and so quite impressionable. He appeared to have so much hate.

I now know about the privileges I gained, in  terms of opportunities and not facing many barriers to be involved in the wider world.

I would welcome any feedback on my inappropriate views.

Respect is earned by actions, not their origins.

I think we can all be victims to some extent.

Though persecution and attempted genocide of their people are big barriers.

 

 

 

Poorly formed character perhaps. But how in hell was he meant to develop a “well formed” character with the abuse inflicted on him as a child & the abuse coming from all angles in footy? 

[kev martin 9,215]

28 minutes ago, Deebymistake said:

Poorly formed character perhaps. But how in hell was he meant to develop a “well formed” character with the abuse inflicted on him as a child & the abuse coming from all angles in footy? 

Others do it?

Personal development,  psychological assistance, taking responsibility for his own life and not being reactive to hate thrown at him.

Find some passion in constructive activities. 

Use hardship as a motivator to do better than the other.

Be happy in what today 'brings'.

Hope and work for Grace and peace. 

Edited August 23, 2020 by kev martin

[Dame Gaga 2,453]

The title is appropriate - the story football doesn't want to hear. Because we don't witness it, because we don't experience it, we can pretend it didn't happen and it doesn't still happen. We should stop denying someone's experience of life and what traumas they have endured. Jack Hamilton: "It has never been the subject of report or complaint. You're saying it happens....I have no evidence of it."  Wow, the VFL must have had a huge lump in their carpet with all the stuff they didn't want to know about swept under it.

What a terrible indictment on society for this young man to be failed at every turn. Every aspect of his story was disturbing, but the worst  that stayed in my guts were;

The suspension of two years for a 'trip' when he was 16, which appeared to be the result of a campaign to set him up for the greater charge of a 'vicious kick' with suspect 'witnesses'.

The abuse he received from his father, with a kick twisting his bowel when he was a child, causing him ongoing health problems which embarrassed him throughout his career, never being treated. He never ate breakfast or lunch before a game because of his condition. How did he survive, and still manage to play well?

The shocking treatment from his own team mates as a young recruit. And they never stuck up for him.

The lack of official intervention when the crowd were being abusive, including throwing objects at Muir.

The Footy Show set up which sent him into a downward spiral. All for a cheap laugh. Eddie et al should hang their heads in shame. Disgrace.

The failure of anyone at the football clubs to look after his mental well being. Didn't anyone think to ask themselves, does this kid need guidance and help. Don't forget, he was only a young man at the time.

All and all a shameful part of football history. The next time someone like Heritier Lumumba speaks up about his experience we should not be so quick to dismiss him as some sort troublemaker and wish he would be quiet, otherwise we will be reading about these stories again and again. We will never learn. As witnessed by the latest attacks on players on social media. Disappointing.

 

 

[kev martin 9,215]

Well put Dame Gaga.

Excellent thoughts.

Thank you. 

[Gouga 508]

57 minutes ago, Dame Gaga said:

The Footy Show set up which sent him into a downward spiral. All for a cheap laugh. Eddie et al should hang their heads in shame. Disgrace.

Agree, but will never happen. At the end of the day Eddie and Sam are just a couple racist morons.

Edited August 23, 2020 by Gouga

[Demon17 4,597]

5 hours ago, Gouga said:

Agree, but will never happen. At the end of the day Eddie and Sam are just a couple racist morons.

On a slightly related matter, the article describeded Muir's disgraceful treatment at Vic park by the crowd and cheer squad in particular.

A friend of mine is a former multiple VFL/AFL Grand Final Umpire and he tells me the story that when umpires were asked where they were appointed each round, if it was to a Collingwood game at Victoria park - they would usuallly just say to each other inside the umpiring fratenity,  in short hand, that they were umpiring at the Zoo this Saturday.

It wasn't meant to be funny. More of trepidation.

My friend was routinely abused and spat upon each time after a game there when walking back to the rooms and up the umpires race.

 

[Half forward flank 1,022]

Never met Robbie, wish I had, and I will do what I can to reach out and give him a personal letter of support. Perhaps Demonland could offer their support as well? If possible it was made ever more harrowing for me as I knew the second in charge of the Collingwood Cheer Squad and also have spent considerable time with quite a few of the members of a Champion team who Robbie had an outburst against. The players are  regarded as good knock about blokes. It is hard to know what they were thinking. And boy, what a player he may have been. He had the most lightning reflexes I have ever seen. 

[robbiefrom13 877]

Liam Jurrah telling the coach week after week, no, I don't feel ready.  That never rang true, to me.  I thought he was lacking someone doing what Lyon did with Farmer - and I don't know whether I'm being racist thinking it.  Jimma reached out that way when he was well, early on.  But maybe what's needed is for clubs to set up affirmative action - counteracting the systemic bias that indigenous people live under.  Anticipating it.  Which I suppose could be patronising, too - so difficult...  Melbourne worked on this, with Jetta and so on - brothers, connecting - but there can be the divide in a set-up like that, too.  An aboriginal friend of mine told me once, all he really wanted was for us to be like regular mates; like, just mates...  

 

[YesitwasaWin4theAges 5,819]

10 hours ago, Win4theAges said:

So you would be alright with full beer cans and coins being pelted at your head on a week by week basis, along with all the verbal, spiting and carry on?

The VFL/AFL still have a code to this day of treating people of different cultures with disdain.

Saints, Woodville-West Torrens,AFL, Malcolm Blight, Bill Sanders, Alister McCalister, Collingwood, Geelong should be ashamed of themselves absolutely disgraceful bigots the lot of them.

John Northey take a bow.

I forgot to mention The Footy Show, Eddie, Sam and Trevor hang your heads in shame complete and utter discrimination of the highest order.

Feeding off a mans desperation with no living to fall back on.

[Binmans PA 26,225]

I think the key here is that everyone is different and everyone's situation's different. To just blanket everyone with the same brush is frankly absurd. We all have different experiences that help or hinder our development as people. Just look at Jesse Hogan. He's clearly been through the emotional and psychological ringer, imagine if you added the racial element to it.

Now more than ever, rather than division, our society needs social cohesion, empathy and compassion. Reconciliation with the traditional owners of the land we live on should not be a difficult thing for white people. No one's saying you are directly responsible for the atrocities committed and the intergenerational trauma that has unleashed, but recognising that these events have occurred and being open to the different experiences of Indigenous people is a good start.

[robbiefrom13 877]

the thing is, I think, people are all a mixture of things - and we get the idea of "the dominant story", when that's only part of it.  The Robert Muir story in the paper the other day put up some of the "alternative stories" about him.  A lot of us only knew the "mad dog" story, which Northey rightly (wisely) called out early on.  You see things confirming the dominant story, and it becomes the person's identity.  Those in a position to influence opinion need to be making sure dominant stories don't lock people into deep pigeonholes with no way out.  

Coaches can strengthen players by drawing out their alternative stories - and actively opposing negative dominant stories; at the same time, they won't help anyone by trying to force onto a player an alternative story that is not part of that player's make-up.  St Kilda should have seen the negative dominant story of their new guy, and realised how essential it was going to be to counteract that - his talent was surely enough to have created a whole new dominant story.  

Jurrah was characterised as the Warlpiri Warrior, and the Jurrahcane - not helpful, with hindsight.  His particular skillset could have been made the main story, and should have been.  Harping on about defensive skills when he was clearly the most electrifying offensive force in the competition - it was denying his identity, and pushing away what was the dominant story that brought him to Melbourne.

Please let us value Harley Bennell for who he really is.  And all of us refuse these racist stereotyping stories that reduce players to categorised clones.  Not everyone is good at adopting such a required dominant story.  Football teams try to make the most of their players, even though there can be a mixture of parts to the player.  In among the various stories of each individual, there can be stories that are valid and troubling, and needing intelligent care.

Makes you realise what a wonderful person  Robbie Flower was - brilliantly skilled, modest (claimed he was overpaid for what he did!) and always with a smile and time for anyone, unshakable optimist, team-oriented, loyal forever...  Hard to think of a negative story.  But Robbie Muir shared some of those attributes.  People have a mixture of parts, and good management recognises this and brings out the best.  Roos was skilled there.  "Sink or swim" is no management strategy - and nor is "you made your bed - you'll have to lie in it."  Good management will draw the person into their better bits - they are equally as true - and we unfortunately don't always get to choose which bit of us becomes the dominant story.  Community has a responsibility.  

Sorry, too long.  

[pinkshark 935]

Yes indeed it is a sad story.  

Uneducated, immoral, scum of the earth human beings that participated in his abuse.  Worryingly they still exist in large numbers.  But the tide is turning, albeit somewhat slowly.

I'm a school teacher.  This article should be on the Primary School reading curriculum.  I will ensure children in Year 6 at my school read this and share their opinions.  You cannot believe how valuable such an activity can be in shaping opinions in young children.  When I went through primary school as a student there was absolutely zero when it came to highlighting indigenous racism.  Not a damn thing.  The world is changing because as teachers we present the facts and realities to children now.  We have to.  We can't just bullshid our way through because they can just go home and google information themselves.  We need to be honest and I find teaching a much richer experience when young children are given the opportunity to absorb facts and share their thoughts.  They are not stupid at all, and full of empathy for the wronged and as I said, the conversations they wont forget.  It will shape their views.  It must.

So if you have the courage ask your young child or grandchild to ask his teacher if he can have a 'show and tell' in the form of reading out this article to his classmates.  Just so they hear it.

Whatever way you butter your bread we have been historically and horribly racist as a nation.  It will only improve with the younger generation, as it already is, becoming adults, and it will only end when the racists of old die. 

Old racists like the 70+ year old at the pub many months ago when I went to watch the Wilder/Fury 2 heavyweight title fight. I've been a Fury fan for a long time.  Since well before he became famous.  I've also been a big fan of Wilder.  But it was Fury who I wanted to win because he needs to be recognised as one of the greatest heavyweight boxers there ever has been.  The old bloke sidles up next to me, pint in hand,

"so who you going for mate?" he asks,

"Fury" I responded, waiting for it.

"Yeah [censored] the big black bastard" he said 

"It's nothing to do with skin colour mate, they're both champions, I just happen to be a huge admirer of Fury's boxing"  I stood up and wandered to another screen, and this old fart just stood there, sipped from his beer, seemingly unable to comprehend that I didn't share his pointless racist attitude.

This was in my hometown, my hometown pub, this bloke probably knew my father when dad was alive, and I would've no doubt known the children of this blokes mates most likely.  This was the type of guy who pointlessly abused Robbie Muir for simply the colour of his skin.