1 hour ago, loges said:

T Mac 50 goals in 2018. You can't fluke a 50 goal season which puts him in the top group of goal kickers in the AFL. What we need is him back in form and confidence

I agree that you can't fluke a 50 goal year.  Tom was great in 2018 however I don't think he will be able to ever repeat that as a number 1 forward.

From what I recall he was receiving the second best defender all season until Jesse broke down.  Opposition teams would be dropping back there extra/intercept defender focusing on slowing down Jesse allowing Tom a lot more one on ones and space.

Being the number one man in 2019 a lot more focus would have been put into Tom from the opposition.  He was continually blocked away and double teamed and struggled - his injuries didn't help this... 

The way we moved the pill was as if we expected Tom to play like Hogan and just crash packs again and again where they are two very different players.  

It was a massive worry watching the exact same rubbish dished up Round 1 this year and the ball continually rebounded out twice as quick as it went it.  It still looked like a focus just to get the ball in deep to the hot spot rather than hitting up players.

If our forward line is going to consist of McDonald, Kozzie, Milkshake, Fritta, Brown, Bennell whilst rotating through Trac/Oliver/Brayshaw then surely we have to adopt the Hawthorn model to not waste kicks and spot up leads.  Harley, Fritta, Brown & McDonald are great set shot kicks which I'd back having a shot from 40 out on a 45 degree angle rather than just bombing it long to outnumbered contests.

The concept of 'gaining territory' when we don't have a crash/bash forward is pointless in my opinion

 

well argued Deeko.

I think we all assumed Weideman would provide the counterfoil formerly provided by Hogan but he has simply not come up.

Weid's success is vital to our season in 2020.

If he does not come through we may as well trade him and rely on Jackson

If we persist with Fritta as the key target one out inside 50, we will lose a lot of games. That killed us against west coast. 

 

It is NOT his role. 

13 hours ago, Diamond_Jim said:

new game plan against the power clubs might help. Sounds like they have no idea

It's all been part of the Demons' Syndrome - too much faith in ordinary performers who have been given chances and opportunities unlike no other, both on the forward line at goalkicking time and in the backline at solid defence time, with pacey intent. With this malaise, at both ends of the ground, I used to harken to criticism of the midfielders' delivery strategies and executions. No longer. Snap, crackle and pop for those 'weekly' inclusions who have failed us all, repeatedly. 

17 minutes ago, Leoncelli_36 said:

If we persist with Fritta as the key target one out inside 50, we will lose a lot of games. That killed us against west coast. 

 

It is NOT his role. 

Agree completely 

Frittata wlll succeed but needs to take the fourth defender and once he isolates a bigger defender is plonked on him and he is out bustled a lot.

Need Weid to replace Brown who looked lost and dropped Marks he got in his hands in Round1

Fritta and Melk are good forwards against their mid range defenders not 2nd defenders of the opposition.

 I ts all a mix and we need our different assets to combine to achieve a maximum result 

Over to you Goody and your coaches !!

Our forward 50 issues are still a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma. 

About time they used a new  address- the last one always resulted in return to sender - no one home.

The best forward structure in 50 years was in the 1994 finals. Lyon and Schwarz as tall forwards with Pike as a third tall playing as a mobile forward (same role he played in 4 flags for others).

At least 2 talls are mandatory as targets. We just need to find the right combination and structure. That's why the coaches are paid the (formerly) big bucks.

TMac is good, Weideman is still growing into the role but there seems to be a lack of clear structure and definition in the team plan. Fritta as a third option is good but no one has seemingly told them where to stand, run and lead. Goody, get to work.

1 hour ago, chook fowler said:

About time they used a new  address- the last one always resulted in return to sender - no one home.

Maybe Goody needs to put his stamp on it?

12 minutes ago, demonstone said:

Maybe Goody needs to put his stamp on it?

Or play the last Post.

21 hours ago, Demonland said:

 

That’s hilarious. 
 

Better late than never. 

 

We definitely need another tall forward.

I am still keen on Sam Weideman but he needs to keep bulking up.

We definitely need either Garry Lyon, David Schwarz or David Neitz back at the club teaching young Sam about forward craft.

 

Additionally, I would look to approach Tom Boyd formerly from the GWS and the Western Bulldogs and see if he is interested in coming out of retirement. Does the hunger to play still burn deep down? Although he may not wish to play AFL any more. However, if his back feels better and his mental health has improved then a fresh start might be good for him?

 

The other  fundamental issue is getting more skilled players who are good kicks! We need to start drafting and recruiting players that are excellent kicks that can hit our forwards lace out on the chest.

Yes, we all know forward 50 entries are being addressed.  The question is 'Addressed to whom?'

 

8 hours ago, loges said:

T Mac 50 goals in 2018. You can't fluke a 50 goal season which puts him in the top group of goal kickers in the AFL. What we need is him back in form and confidence

Agree you need talent to kick that many, but the influence of Hogan taking the no1 defender can’t be underestimated. 

23 minutes ago, Gunna’s said:

Agree you need talent to kick that many, but the influence of Hogan taking the no1 defender can’t be underestimated. 

Yes, that is true, but remember the four games on the trot against West Coast GWS Geelong and Hawthorn  Hogan wasn't playing and he still went OK. That's 4 in a row against finalists not just one flash in tha pan.

1 hour ago, Supreme_Demon said:

 

We definitely need another tall forward.

I am still keen on Sam Weideman but he needs to keep bulking up.

We definitely need either Garry Lyon, David Schwarz or David Neitz back at the club teaching young Sam about forward craft.

 

Additionally, I would look to approach Tom Boyd formerly from the GWS and the Western Bulldogs and see if he is interested in coming out of retirement. Does the hunger to play still burn deep down? Although he may not wish to play AFL any more. However, if his back feels better and his mental health has improved then a fresh start might be good for him?

 

The other  fundamental issue is getting more skilled players who are good kicks! We need to start drafting and recruiting players that are excellent kicks that can hit our forwards lace out on the chest.

Petty may yet be the one.  He is a good reader of the play, a good footballer and a competitor.  As the mobile tall third, he could be the surprise.

1 hour ago, Supreme_Demon said:

Additionally, I would look to approach Tom Boyd formerly from the GWS and the Western Bulldogs and see if he is interested in coming out of retirement. Does the hunger to play still burn deep down? Although he may not wish to play AFL any more. However, if his back feels better and his mental health has improved then a fresh start might be good for him?

Hamish “Rompingwins” McLachlan interviewed Boyd recently, in short, there’s no way he’ll be returning to the AFL. 

2 hours ago, tiers said:

The best forward structure in 50 years was in the 1994 finals. Lyon and Schwarz as tall forwards with Pike as a third tall playing as a mobile forward (same role he played in 4 flags for others).

At least 2 talls are mandatory as targets. We just need to find the right combination and structure. That's why the coaches are paid the (formerly) big bucks.

TMac is good, Weideman is still growing into the role but there seems to be a lack of clear structure and definition in the team plan. Fritta as a third option is good but no one has seemingly told them where to stand, run and lead. Goody, get to work.

Losing Pike after 94 was massive. Very much our Dennis Rodman. Could read the play so well and always seemed to be in the right place at the right time. Pity he had such an affinity for the grog.

Honestly, the last thing he said sounds to me like they still don't get it.  He's still talking about the advantage to be gained from just getting the ball in there and how the teams with the most i50s generally win.  Those numbers are only relevant if you actually use the ball well when you deliver it.  The bomb is basically a free rebound 50 for the opposition.  I wonder if they have considered how often the team that gets the most goals fro rebound 50s wins the match? 

One of the things I'd like the coaches to do is show Weids and TMac footage of Neitz going for marking contests. There was this intent and determination in his eyes, he was totally fixated and nothing would get in his way. I know we're talking about one of our greatest ever but both of them could really learn from that attitude.

I'm pretty sure Glen Archer actually said that of all the forwards he played on Neitz was the one player he did not want be between him and the ball.

44 minutes ago, RalphiusMaximus said:

Honestly, the last thing he said sounds to me like they still don't get it.  He's still talking about the advantage to be gained from just getting the ball in there and how the teams with the most i50s generally win.  Those numbers are only relevant if you actually use the ball well when you deliver it.  The bomb is basically a free rebound 50 for the opposition.  I wonder if they have considered how often the team that gets the most goals fro rebound 50s wins the match? 

I think this is one of the biggest issues, the kick doesn't have penetration or direction to it, it's just "getting it in there". I remember one of Melksham's goals came from a Kozzie kick that while not exactly on point, was still delivered at pace with a trajectory that made life difficult for the defenders. It also didn't loop in a way that allows players to peel off to intercept.

Edited May 22, 20204 yr by Pates

10 hours ago, loges said:

T Mac 50 goals in 2018. You can't fluke a 50 goal season which puts him in the top group of goal kickers in the AFL. What we need is him back in form and confidence

He had Hogan next to him. Hogan drew players to him and he ran up and back all day creating space in our forward and spreading defences.

8 hours ago, Leoncelli_36 said:

If we persist with Fritta as the key target one out inside 50, we will lose a lot of games. That killed us against west coast. 

 

It is NOT his role. 

He's a good 3rd marking option up forward but definitely not the key forward target, I agree

.Not in the last part of the season he didn't, all against quality opposition'

How many games have we lost when we had many more inside 50s than the opposition? Far too many.

It's not the bombs that are the problem. It's the lack of any strategy to keep the ball inside the forward line if it is not marked.

It's also not the effort at the marking contest that matters, it's what happens after. Even Neita didn't mark the ball every time.

This has gone on for too long. Goody, time to find the answer.