New Role for Harmes

[Pates 9,660]

2 hours ago, The Jackson 6 said:

Not sure I understand this one. His standout games have all been when he is led to the ball.  I just feel we have other options to try in this rebounding HB role. Would prefer him in a more regular midfield rotation - taking some defensive pressure off Oliver/Trac/Brayshaw and allowing all three of them to rest forward more regularly (well, Trac and Oliver at least).

I must admit I’ve been feeling similarly, particularly during 2018 he was one of our stand out mids, will be interesting to see how he goes. I can almost see a rotation going on between Harmes, Jones and a few others through midfield/half back/half forward. 

[Demon3 2,541]

1 hour ago, pineapple dee said:

Good points TJ6. I dont think Goodwin has really thought this through

Im pretty sure he would have thought it through. Fact of the matter is, we have depth in the midfield, and Brayshaw in particular needs to be at the coalface, he is no good on a wing or a HBF,  Viney will get more time, Sparrow is coming through, Add Petracca to the  mix, even Jackson in there at times. Harmes reads it well, is good over head, uses the ball nice, can run, is tough and has a defensive mindset. Its a good move.

Edited March 2, 2020 by Demon3

[pineapple dee 2,892]

1 minute ago, Demon3 said:

Im pretty sure he would have thought it through. Fact of the matter is, we have depth in teh midfield, and Brayshaw in particular needs tobeat the coalface, he is no good on a wing or a HBF,  Viney will get more time, Sparrow is coming through, Add Petracca to the  mix, even Jackson in there at times. Harmes reads it well, is good over head, uses teh ball nice, can run, is tough and has a defensive mindset. Its a good move.

Yes, of course he would have. And I may have been a bit tongue in cheek with my first post. Harmes is the type of player who can put the acid on an opponent and whichever position he plays, he'll pick up possessions and pressure opponents. Two qualities you'd love to see half your team possess.

 

 

[rjay 24,924]

15 minutes ago, Pates said:

I must admit I’ve been feeling similarly, particularly during 2018 he was one of our stand out mids, will be interesting to see how he goes. I can almost see a rotation going on between Harmes, Jones and a few others through midfield/half back/half forward. 

 

5 minutes ago, Demon3 said:

Im pretty sure he would have thought it through. Fact of the matter is, we have depth in the midfield, and Brayshaw in particular needs to be at the coalface, he is no good on a wing or a HBF,  Viney will get more time, Sparrow is coming through, Add Petracca to the  mix, even Jackson in there at times. Harmes reads it well, is good over head, uses the ball nice, can run, is tough and has a defensive mindset. Its a good move.

I think Goody is looking for that Vlastuin type role with Harmes...

It's worth a try and if it doesn't work out or we are struggling in the mids we know he can play that role if needed.

[Demon Disciple 12,122]

I'd rather have Harmes as a HFF as opposed to a HBF.

He would do well nullifying the oppositions quarterback (the present trend in attacking from the back-line).

[drysdale demon 4,833]

46 minutes ago, rjay said:

...and 'drysdale' knocking anyone who might question the club or coach.

Nothing much changes in the world does it.

For the record I think it is a move worth trying but I can understand the thinking of others who don't.

No prizes for seconds

[Pates 9,660]

20 minutes ago, Demon Disciple said:

I'd rather have Harmes as a HFF as opposed to a HBF.

He would do well nullifying the oppositions quarterback (the present trend in attacking from the back-line).

Perhaps he’s seeing AvB filling that role and potentially being able to hit the scoreboard. 

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,754]

23 minutes ago, Demon Disciple said:

I'd rather have Harmes as a HFF as opposed to a HBF.

He would do well nullifying the oppositions quarterback (the present trend in attacking from the back-line).

My favourite way to nullify the defence attacking from the backline is to have forwards who kick goals. Nothing forces a defender to be more accountable than actually having to defend.

[old dee 23,790]

13 minutes ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

My favourite way to nullify the defence attacking from the backline is to have forwards who kick goals. Nothing forces a defender to be more accountable than actually having to defend.

Agree LDC I also believe the best way for a forward to defend is to kick goals.

[Rodney (Balls) Grinter 10,824]

I see where this move is coming from and guess it's worth a try to see how it goes.  But ...

1. If it's not working, I hope it doesn't take us near a full season to move Harmes somewhere else like it did Freitch;

2.  I didn't notice the normal level of output from Harmes against the Crows, so I have some reservations, conversely noting that it's a small sample size, the first practice match of the year and I think the play was generally more scrappy than a normal home and away game, perhaps partly due to extra Casey wind conditions.

 I do like Harmes ability to break lines through the guts and he has a good ability to impact up forward as well, so hopefully he can push up the ground at the right times as well.

[Wiseblood 24,637]

I can see why they've made the move.

Harmes is not super quick, but quick enough to go with most half forwards, and he is strong enough to go with them.  He is good overhead so he can float across to take some contested marks, and his kicking is good enough to regularly find targets by foot, although he is no Christian Salem.

I'm interested to see how they use him once the real stuff begins, but I'm confident it will end up being a positive more than a negative.

[whatwhat say what 22,750]

He started performing in this role late last year and was reasonably effective

As others have said, Harmes’ flexibility gives him greater scope to be shifted around as opposed to someone like Brayshaw or Viney who is purely an inside beast and not much value deployed otherwise 

[Nasher 33,616]

This to me is just to address the oversupply in the guts, and Harmes is just the logical choice to move out of there as he’s more versatile. It was never going to be Viney or Brayshaw and Petracca already has a secondary role at HF. Harmes’ ability to defend first then balance it out with damaging offence is what made him a good midfielder. It should suit him well in defence also.

I don’t particularly love the idea as I really enjoyed the player Harmes had become in the middle, so there’s an element of risk of ruining something that was working.  But I can also see how it might benefit the team, so will watch with an open mind.

[TGR 1,367]

3 hours ago, ManDee said:

Do you mean their forward half? Never sure what you mean tiger.

No

[titan_uranus 25,018]

I understand why we're trying it, and I can see the logic behind it, but I have a gut feeling it isn't going to work.

[deelusions from afar 1,810]

As much as I love them all, if this doesn't work out (and potentially even if it does), one of Viney or Brayshaw are likely not to be at the club next year.

Both great players but unlike Oliver and Petracca, they can't really play anywhere else but in the guts.  Both had a lot of injuries so perhaps haven't seen their best in a while... but our inside midfield stocks look solid with harmes going to defence and the likes of Jordan and Sparrow not being able to crack into the team.

[ManDee 7,147]

18 minutes ago, TGR said:

No

Thanks for clarifying. 

[Dee Watcher 71]

I thought we might see some of Lockhart down back this year as a bit of an understudy to Jetta.

 

[Bring-Back-Powell 14,820]

1 hour ago, Rodney (Balls) Grinter said:

 If it's not working, I hope it doesn't take us near a full season to move Harmes somewhere else like it did Freitch;

Exactly. If by round 4 or 5 he's been poor in the half back position, he either gets dropped to Casey or moved elsewhere. Not 16.75 games late like they did with Fritsch.

I didn't think he looked crisp against Adelaide and only got 13 touches. Well below a standard Harmes game.

However, he did manage 31 touches against North in rd 23 last year, playing exclusively in defence.

[stinga 566]

it just makes sense to me.

 we've gone from a small midfield of Jones Viney Brayshaw and harmes with the only tall being Oliver.  To a taller  group of Viney VDB,  Trac and  Oliver (maybe even Jackson next year).   Brayshaw is more outside.   Even our two new wings have height.  The tall midfielders dominate the comp with some notable exceptions.  It's only a few cm but with that height other sides have to go sideways and gives us more opportunity to own the corridor.   Not only height but they are all hard men.

Harmes is not small at 186 but in the back half against smaller set ups like richmond makes sense.    If Jones is going to be that extra small forward he can rotate through Harmes in the back half as well.   Harmes is a much better mark than Salem.

[Bring-Back-Powell 14,820]

2 minutes ago, stinga said:

 Harmes is a much better mark than Salem.

Arguably a better player as well.

[Willmoy1947 4,086]

We are preparing two lots of good teams for long seasons in my opinion.

[DeeSpencer 25,697]

Doesn’t fix our lack of skill from the backline but could be a huge boost to our two way run and has the ability to win contests against a range of forwards. You can’t play the aggressive zone defensive system we like if you don’t have versatile match up guys.

If Jetta, May, Lever (can be up and down) and an improved Hibberd can help the skills then we maintain a good balance.

As for the midfield: Petracca increases the skills and hopefully Viney, Oliver and Gus are all fitter and cover the run that Harmes bought. Viney and Oliver should hopefully add line breaking to their game. Gus, Viney or possibly Vanders get the tagging jobs.

I think it’s a sensible move to try.

[Deespicable 2,726]

Plenty of logic behind the move.

Harmes is a right-footer which is critical for the reverse switch when you already have Salem, Hibberd, May hugging the left-side along with Lewis (past 3 years) and our best back-up in Wags .

We tried to redress the balance at times with Jones and even Stretch (late in season) but for a variety of reasons they never came off. With Lever out last year we were caught between quick, dangerous release from Frosty and the slow, percentage play form Oscar  which was way too predictable. Nev, when fit, is also very precise but generally doesn't provide much drive - he's a super defender, not a risk-taker and he doesn't have a long kick anyway.

Harmesy can be a thumping kick but he's also very disciplined and will love being challenged playing on some livewire half-forwards who think they are hot stuff - a couple of Tigers come to mind. He's quick enough to play on smalls and should be able to cover medium talls pretty well. And because he's such a long kick, he can switch with a bit more confidence and if teams sag off him he is not afraid to take the game on and head long to Pagan's over the back Paddock.

Most of these decisions get made off-season - think Melky when he had seven horrendous weeks in 2017 down back before Goody realised he was way more suited up forward.  The huge pre-season from Lockhart has actually made the switch less crucial because we now have an extra right-footer who can play that role, but at the same time Harmesy is a safe bet because he has such a strong physique and is good in the air. The extra height can help when you are caught in a mismatch with a big.

By the way, my preferred back seven with one on bench (it hasn't been a back six for five years now) is:

Jetta May Hibberd

Harmes Lever Salem (Joel Smith).

But with Joel certain to miss Round 1 and May also doubtful, both Oscar and Lockhart are likely to play Rd 1 and Wags is next cab off rank.

[The Chazz 4,077]

4 hours ago, Wiseblood said:

I can see why they've made the move.

Harmes is not super quick, but quick enough to go with most half forwards, and he is strong enough to go with them.  He is good overhead so he can float across to take some contested marks, and his kicking is good enough to regularly find targets by foot, although he is no Christian Salem.

I'm interested to see how they use him once the real stuff begins, but I'm confident it will end up being a positive more than a negative.

Wise, I think the other point is that while Harmes isn't super quick, he will push back quicker than what Jones does.

I'm not 100% on board with this change of role, but I'm happy to watch the first month to see how it pans out.