43 minutes ago, old dee said:

So we have traded out the best backman of 2019.

I still don't understand that we appear to have had no love for him in the FD.

But I guess they did such a good job for us this year so why question their ability.

How did they go in 2018 or have you forgotten?

21 minutes ago, Rusty Nails said:

Never air your dirty laundry in public always holds true.  And none less so at trade time.

Just play the game with a smile and try and max what's coming back.  

 

But Rusty that is exactly what the club did - or didn't do in terms airing any dirty laundry.  I did not hear one bad word from the club about Frosty - they played it wit the deadest of dead bats. 

They handled it all expertly. Which is big reason we ave done pretty well with the trade. 

On airing any dirty laundry Go The Biff wrote this earlier:

'Interesting. A relative of mine - Demon fan - met him out & about a few weeks ago and was surprised at how readily he mouthed off about the club to a perfect stranger.'

 

5 minutes ago, Baghdad Bob said:

How did they go in 2018 or have you forgotten?

Average and They backed up so well in 2019 that half of them got flung.

So let's hope the current replacements are doing a little better.

 

2 minutes ago, binman said:

But Rusty that is exactly what the club did - or didn't do in terms airing any dirty laundry.  I did not hear one bad word from the club about Frosty - they played it wit the deadest of dead bats. 

They handled it all expertly. Which is big reason we ave done pretty well with the trade. 

On airing any dirty laundry Go The Biff wrote this earlier:

'Interesting. A relative of mine - Demon fan - met him out & about a few weeks ago and was surprised at how readily he mouthed off about the club to a perfect stranger.'

 

From the little you can tell from the outer binman there appears little about his on field performance that would generate the lack of love for keeping him.

Must be things we don't know and probably never will.

52 minutes ago, Mach5 said:

 

Poor attitude, I'll leave it there.

I recently spent some of my precious time on earth sifting through a thread where one person said they had info about a rumoured trade, which was followed by four pages of people guessing (in vain) who it was. 

The “I know something you don’t” post, is becoming increasingly irritating  

 

 

 

Edited October 11, 20195 yr by Mel Bourne

3 minutes ago, old dee said:

Average and They backed up so well in 2019 that half of them got flung.

So let's hope the current replacements are doing a little better.

 

A preliminary final was much better than average and if you can't see why there was a significant decline in 2019 I can't help you, and heavens knows I've tried.

Can you name the half that got flung. 

28 minutes ago, Baghdad Bob said:

A preliminary final was much better than average and if you can't see why there was a significant decline in 2019 I can't help you, and heavens knows I've tried.

Can you name the half that got flung. 

I agree BB we had a terrible year in 2019 for a number of reasons one of which IMO was the FD. now some changes have happened and I hope your optimism is correct. I don't thing 2019 showed our true worth but I think 2018 flattered us and we have nothing to replace the goals that Hogan kicked in that year. I might add that good KPF's don't grow on trees but our KPF's are average and you don't make the top four without good ones let alone win flags. If luck smiles on us we are capable of 7 to 8th. 

4 hours ago, Satyriconhome said:

And the reasons are?

We had posters wringing more than their hands over Frostball for last couple of years, now he is an indispensable   this forum is just so amusing

My opinion only. 

The debate over Frosty is well known..

Sure there was Frostball but Sam was a member of team who all had a touch of Frostball. He was no better or worse in my opinion. 

Add to that his height and dash, his ability to kick long and willingness to chase and tackle brought more to the team than his deficits. And we have a group of defenders with chronic injury concerns.

On an emotional level it is sad to see a guy go that did not want to leave the club until it became obvious to him that he was not wanted. I thought the manner in which the thing was worked through by Mahoney and others showed little respect or dignity.  

I was a fan so I have a bias.

I am also one of those old fashioned guys that still value loyalty. I think that he had sufficient attributes that would have kept him at a club that went backwards this past season. 

Obviously, the Hawks value him more highly than Goodwin and crew. 

 

 

Edited October 11, 20195 yr by hemingway

4 hours ago, TGR said:

Was a bonefide top 5 player this year....who just managed to double Jordan Lewis' voting in the B&F.

In 3x the games

pBS

2 hours ago, TGR said:

 

You guys just re-write the narrative when the club makes a decision.  It is going to great thread to re-hash when Clarko uses Frosty well, and the Hawks catapult into the window again.

The view out that window currently is a nice pattern of out in straight sets alternating with miss the finals.  Is ol' Frosty is going to carry them back to the penthouse view?

Not a big fan of this trade but I can understand why the club went this way. Will miss Frosty's crazy wild bull charges out of the backline!

So this deal turns out to be Frost and small downgrades to our 2nd and 3rd for Langdon. Shut up and take my money!

1 hour ago, binman said:

But Rusty that is exactly what the club did - or didn't do in terms airing any dirty laundry.  I did not hear one bad word from the club about Frosty - they played it wit the deadest of dead bats. 

They handled it all expertly. Which is big reason we ave done pretty well with the trade. 

On airing any dirty laundry Go The Biff wrote this earlier:

'Interesting. A relative of mine - Demon fan - met him out & about a few weeks ago and was surprised at how readily he mouthed off about the club to a perfect stranger.'

 

That was probably after his papers were stamped Bin.  If so not good form but there was possibly no turning back and decided to put the boots in.  He wouldn't be the first.  I still recall Willow flipping the bird to the MCC faithful in his first match against us at the G after departing to join the Saints.

It was very clear to all that he wasn't welcome nor wanted from where i was sitting Bin.

No offer was ever tabled and club (Mahoney) made it clear they weren't fussed about him going...

“We’ve been having some conversations with Sam and indicated that we have a contract there for him, but we weren’t prepared to offer one at the time,” Mahoney said.

(in other words we aren't interested in him staying)

 

“What Sam did was he made the most of his opportunities,” Mahoney said.

“He got opportunities through some injuries to our players.

(downplaying his impact)

“We’ve invested pretty heavily in our key defensive roles in the last few trade periods, with Jake Lever, Steven May. We’ve got Oscar McDonald, Harrison Petty, Marty Hore, who’ve all played those roles through the year.

(He's not that good...we will easily cover him).

“I can understand why people are questioning that, but we make decisions not just off a season of 2019.

“It’s over long-term decisions and if Sam’s not here next year, that’s what it’ll be based off.”

(Pretty much stamped his papers).

All i'm saying is...no need for half of that.  Just say "at this stage Sam is a required player but he is OOC and we are in discussions and we will be trying to find a happy medium".... or similar.

There were certainly no issues with most of his team mates (although May might have voted otherwise!).

Lucifer's Hero     14,921

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Posted August 28

Frosty has been nominated as the club's 'Most Courageous' player by his team mates.  It is part of the MV player awards.  MVP Nominees

He is quite fearless, how he throws himself around.

Quite an honour.  Nothing better than respect from teammates.

But there were also rumblings that he might have shot himself in the foot as well and gotten ahead of himself.  Might have put a few noses out of joint within the FD and around the admin/club in general as a result...

longsuffering     852

 

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Posted August 28

Was told a couple of games back that Frosty loves being at the Club but felt that his game had improved and that it should be reflected in his contract offer. I like so many others love his enthusiasm but my heart still stops when he gets the ball waiting momentarily to see what he will bring. Thankfully there have been fewer of the car crashes this year. Glad that it looks like a compromise has been reached or the Club has recognised his improvement this year. 

 

Edited October 11, 20195 yr by Rusty Nails

15 minutes ago, Fifty-5 said:

The view out that window currently is a nice pattern of out in straight sets alternating with miss the finals.  Is ol' Frosty is going to carry them back to the penthouse view?

A big dash out of defence to usually a long kick to noone in particular resulting in a turnover. Looks terrific at first but ineffective. 

Correct decision by list management if we are to improve.

disappointed to see Frost go, he always seems to trying which is better than some. I would have loved to have seen him tried on a wing, he had the pace to chase and not having to hold down a forward may have given him a little more latitude. And while he did make mistakes (who didnt in that team) i thought he was no worse than some of our other backs, oscar for one, and to be honest i cringed when lever had the ball in hand. I wish him well with the hawks.

4 hours ago, spirit of norm smith said:

Agree. I feel the Hawks are already laughing.  I think we got done over on this. Btw I really hate hawthorn.  

Greater loss (Frosty) than Hogan had been. Some of us liked his football so much we regarded him as an excitement machine. What a terrible loss. 

Needs to be put in perspective.

He had a solid year but certainly hasn't proven he can do it consistently.  In my mind, he'd be every chance to have a poor year next year.

Also, he's not going to be ahead of a fit May or Lever which means he would fit somewhere between last defender picked and a fringe player - you don't usually offer 3+ years to that type of player.

Yes, Hawthorn has offered him 3 years but they don't have May and Lever.

Lastly, the comparisons with OMac are ridiculous - OMac is contracted and has zero value on the trade table.

We are cashing in our chips on an unpredictable player. I think that's sensible in the circumstances.

All the best Frosty i wish you well, but not to well against the Dees.

Loved your commitment, flaws and all in the 5 years you were with us.

I understand the decision both the club and Frosty have made, no qualms here. 

?

 

Edited October 11, 20195 yr by Win4theAges

Difficult to tell if it was a good trade because the jury is still out on Frost.

1 hour ago, Rusty Nails said:

That was probably after his papers were stamped Bin.

Or not.

3 minutes ago, bing181 said:

Or not.

Emphasis on 'probably' Bing.  Everyone uses different methods, colours and techniques when painting a landscape.

Usually whatever is more pleasing for themselves.  I'm no exception!

Only those within the inner sanctum & Frosty himself will know what the landscape truly looked like in reality at various points in time.

54 minutes ago, WAClark said:

he's not going to be ahead of a fit May or Lever

More likely we will have an unfit/injured May and Lever during the season.

That's why sacking Frosty is a mistake. 

2 hours ago, binman said:

But Rusty that is exactly what the club did - or didn't do in terms airing any dirty laundry.  I did not hear one bad word from the club about Frosty - they played it wit the deadest of dead bats. 

They handled it all expertly. Which is big reason we ave done pretty well with the trade. 

On airing any dirty laundry Go The Biff wrote this earlier:

'Interesting. A relative of mine - Demon fan - met him out & about a few weeks ago and was surprised at how readily he mouthed off about the club to a perfect stranger.'

 

Absolute BS. I personally spoke to Sam in May this year. He was 100% invested in the club and its success.

He was well aware of the players recruited around him and those that were challenging him for his spot. He was aware he had to "really earn" his spot to get a gig every week despite the team performance. He worked hard to meet that benchmark. 

When the club then spits in his face about whether he was valuable,  who here wouldn't crack it?

As for the 2019 Bluey, those that suggest he just made the top 10 should remember the ones casting v the votes, were the ones that cast him out.  He was never going to be given votes, no matter what he did on the field. 

I am confident Clarko will harness Frosty's strengths to enhance the Hawks backline, and offer support for his weaknesses.

Our brains trust wouldn't know where to start except,  "go in, go hard". After all, isn't that our "brand".

I imagine Paul Roos just took one more step away from the club that he and PJ tried to build. 

Love the selection of Ed Langdon to fill an obvious need. But that trade was totally unrelated to Frost.

All that said,  we will all move on, and we all want success, irrespective of how it is stitched together. 

 

 

 

6 hours ago, hemingway said:

Very disappointing on both a rational and emotional level.

A failure of the coach and footy department.

So many reasons he should have been retained.  

There are no reasons .

17 minutes ago, Hot as Hell said:

Absolute BS. I personally spoke to Sam in May this year. He was 100% invested in the club and its success.

He was well aware of the players recruited around him and those that were challenging him for his spot. He was aware he had to "really earn" his spot to get a gig every week despite the team performance. He worked hard to meet that benchmark. 

When the club then spits in his face about whether he was valuable,  who here wouldn't crack it?

As for the 2019 Bluey, those that suggest he just made the top 10 should remember the ones casting v the votes, were the ones that cast him out.  He was never going to be given votes, no matter what he did on the field. 

I am confident Clarko will harness Frosty's strengths to enhance the Hawks backline, and offer support for his weaknesses.

Our brains trust wouldn't know where to start except,  "go in, go hard". After all, isn't that our "brand".

I imagine Paul Roos just took one more step away from the club that he and PJ tried to build. 

Love the selection of Ed Langdon to fill an obvious need. But that trade was totally unrelated to Frost.

All that said,  we will all move on, and we all want success, irrespective of how it is stitched together. 

 

 

 

Things can change between May and a couple of weeks ago.