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Demon Forever

Farewell Sam Frost

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12 hours ago, Yokozuna said:

Wondering what you would have liked from hawthorn that helps us immediately?

Gee mate I dunno, maybe something from this year’s draft that isn’t chicken feed would be a good start. 

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18 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

May 106 of a possible 132 games between 2013-2018 (including a 5 game suspension for his bump on Martin - not sure if any other suspensions?)

Lever 67 of a possible 77 games since debut up until injuring his knee in 2018.

Lever also did his knee before he even debuted.

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18 hours ago, A F said:

They absolutely should and clearly do.

Petty is a footballer. One who understands positioning, he's a neat kick, a good decision maker and a good mark.

Frost is not an athlete who likes to run and can take a good mark. 

Talk about providing Hawthorn with a trojan horse. Is Clarko planning to move on from Hawthorn soon?

Frost is an athlete that likes to run. What are you talking about?

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6 hours ago, layzie said:

Gee mate I dunno, maybe something from this year’s draft that isn’t chicken feed would be a good start. 

Stop kidding yourself, we were lucky to get what we did. No-one wanted him, even us.

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6 hours ago, layzie said:

Gee mate I dunno, maybe something from this year’s draft that isn’t chicken feed would be a good start. 

Ha ha ha. Love the tone of the reply! So condescending, to an honest question!

we were lucky to get what we got, back into the second round for next year.

And if you wanted something to work immediately, that is very rarely a draft pick, especially one late in first or second round, so I assumed you were talking of a player possibly, that’s hey I asked.

No matter, we can never keep everyone happy, so you keep dreaming we were going to get more for a player that only one club was chasing.

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10 minutes ago, Yokozuna said:

Ha ha ha. Love the tone of the reply! So condescending, to an honest question!

we were lucky to get what we got, back into the second round for next year.

And if you wanted something to work immediately, that is very rarely a draft pick, especially one late in first or second round, so I assumed you were talking of a player possibly, that’s hey I asked.

No matter, we can never keep everyone happy, so you keep dreaming we were going to get more for a player that only one club was chasing.

Love how you can tell the tone of someone's reply purely through text, definitely a rare skill 😛

But no I wasn't being a smartalec so sorry if it appeared that way, I just thought he played a good 'bait year' was open to trading, didn't seem to have a gun to our head telling us we had to deal with Hawthorn so assumed at least a top 35 pick would come back to us and possibly another Bailey F find taken in the draft. 

I guess you dont win every single trade. I think we did really well in the Langdon trade so as long as they level out it's ok.

 

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2 minutes ago, layzie said:

Love how you can tell the tone of someone's reply purely through text, definitely a rare skill 😛

But no I wasn't being a smartalec so sorry if it appeared that way, I just thought he played a good 'bait year' was open to trading, didn't seem to have a gun to our head telling us we had to deal with Hawthorn so assumed at least a top 35 pick would come back to us and possibly another Bailey F find taken in the draft. 

I guess you dont win every single trade. I think we did really well in the Langdon trade so as long as they level out it's ok.

 

It did appear as being a smart alec comment if you read it out loud, but I can take your word that you weren’t trying to be, so apologies form me too. I do appreciate you noticing my rare skills though!

we have got a second round for next year, so we could find that layer next year, and we do get a second rounder through the Langdon trade, so if you look at them as a whole, which I believe you should, we got Tomlinson and Langdon while still having a second round pick (dropping only 4 spots) for this season for the loss of frost.

 

 

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38 minutes ago, bing181 said:

Stop kidding yourself, we were lucky to get what we did. No-one wanted him, even us.

So he had no trade value whatsoever? Ok fair enough, I thought there was a little after his year but that's ok. We move on.

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1 minute ago, Yokozuna said:

It did appear as being a smart alec comment if you read it out loud, but I can take your word that you weren’t trying to be, so apologies form me too. I do appreciate you noticing my rare skills though!

we have got a second round for next year, so we could find that layer next year, and we do get a second rounder through the Langdon trade, so if you look at them as a whole, which I believe you should, we got Tomlinson and Langdon while still having a second round pick (dropping only 4 spots) for this season for the loss of frost.

 

 

Well, you gotta laugh sometimes. Especially after this season. And you do have the skills to pay the bills!

Yeah the future second rounder is nothing to sneeze at, definitely handy. 

I don't think Frost will get better than this but I don't think the hawks got a bad trade either. 

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3 hours ago, Skin Deeamond said:

Frost is an athlete that likes to run. What are you talking about?

That should have been 'Frost is an athlete who likes to run...'

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I liked/like Frost, but if you want to win a flag, he is the type of player you don't need. We have too many of those already and that's the reason i didn't go to one game this year, the first time that I can remember I didn't.

We had too many players that are excellent VFL players and not enough excellent AFL players, I looked at the team in the first game and wondered how we were supposed to win. 

We have let a few go and now time will tell if we have replaced them decent players, it's like we were back in the Neeld era, pulling unwanted players from the VFL/SANFL. It's very rare that a club like, say Collingwood, will have a player on their list who can't get on to the senior list, if they don't think he's good enough, then he probably isn't.

Good luck Frosty, hope you do well.

 

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20 hours ago, layzie said:

So he had no trade value whatsoever? Ok fair enough, I thought there was a little after his year but that's ok. We move on.

Says a lot that a guy with zero trade value finishes in our top 10 B&F

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29 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

Says a lot that a guy with zero trade value finishes in our top 10 B&F

You're absolutely right, it says he's one of a handful of players to play most games in an injury ravaged year.

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The same people who voted in the B&F are the same ones who decided he was surplus to requirements. What that tells me is that B&F finish isn’t a good indicator of how the FD rate a player, even if they acknowledge that he had a pretty good season.

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3 hours ago, Dante said:

I liked/like Frost, but if you want to win a flag, he is the type of player you don't need. We have too many of those already and that's the reason i didn't go to one game this year, the first time that I can remember I didn't.

We had too many players that are excellent VFL players and not enough excellent AFL players, I looked at the team in the first game and wondered how we were supposed to win. 

We have let a few go and now time will tell if we have replaced them decent players, it's like we were back in the Neeld era, pulling unwanted players from the VFL/SANFL. It's very rare that a club like, say Collingwood, will have a player on their list who can't get on to the senior list, if they don't think he's good enough, then he probably isn't.

Good luck Frosty, hope you do well.

 

Problem is: We still have OMac. The MFC should have attempted to off-load him. I cannot see him being any value - just a permanent option (not a necessity) for Casey. 

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59 minutes ago, Nasher said:

The same people who voted in the B&F are the same ones who decided he was surplus to requirements. What that tells me is that B&F finish isn’t a good indicator of how the FD rate a player, even if they acknowledge that he had a pretty good season.

I can’t remember our voting system exactly, but isn’t it one where you get a number of votes simply for being selected in the side?

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Frost had to go, over the last 2 years the list has been stacked with defender types, and there are too many true defenders on the list,  also May and Lever are highly paid, effectly we got a second round pick for forst, he was the only defender worth anything at the trade table.

OMac is unfairly pick on, its like a mob bullying mentally everyone needs a whipping boy. OMac might not be the best 1 on 1 defender, but he is a good mark and is carefull with is decision-making. A team does not need a team full of great defenders to be a good defensive team.

May and Lever will play a whole season, if  lever does another knee the team is in big trouble he cost a lot in picks and salary cap, I always thought 2 first round picks was too much to pay, ever few players are worth 2 first round picks, and especially a defender who has previously done a knee.

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2 hours ago, Nasher said:

The same people who voted in the B&F are the same ones who decided he was surplus to requirements. What that tells me is that B&F finish isn’t a good indicator of how the FD rate a player, even if they acknowledge that he had a pretty good season.

Or that so many good players, missed so many games and therefore votes, that the B & F in some respects, IS meaningless this year.

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2 minutes ago, Redleg said:

Or that so many good players, missed so many games and therefore votes, that the B & F in some respects, IS meaningless this year.

That says it all Mr. Leg.

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8 minutes ago, don't make me angry said:

Frost had to go, over the last 2 years the list has been stacked with defender types, and there are too many true defenders on the list,  also May and Lever are highly paid, effectly we got a second round pick for forst, he was the only defender worth anything at the trade table.

OMac is unfairly pick on, its like a mob bullying mentally everyone needs a whipping boy. OMac might not be the best 1 on 1 defender, but he is a good mark and is carefull with is decision-making. A team does not need a team full of great defenders to be a good defensive team.

May and Lever will play a whole season, if  lever does another knee the team is in big trouble he cost a lot in picks and salary cap, I always thought 2 first round picks was too much to pay, ever few players are worth 2 first round picks, and especially a defender who has previously done a knee.

I’m hoping May feels like he can bring out Oscar’s aggression and appetite for the contest. A cohesive, non injury interrupted pre-season may be the miracle cure our backline has looking for. Optimistic? It’s pre-season. Of course, I’m optimistic. 

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2 minutes ago, Demi Dee said:

I’m hoping May feels like he can bring out Oscar’s aggression and appetite for the contest. A cohesive, non injury interrupted pre-season may be the miracle cure our backline has looking for. Optimistic? It’s pre-season. Of course, I’m optimistic. 

Gold. I'll have whatever it is you're taking....

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43 minutes ago, don't make me angry said:

Frost had to go, over the last 2 years the list has been stacked with defender types, and there are too many true defenders on the list,  also May and Lever are highly paid, effectly we got a second round pick for forst, he was the only defender worth anything at the trade table.

OMac is unfairly pick on, its like a mob bullying mentally everyone needs a whipping boy. OMac might not be the best 1 on 1 defender, but he is a good mark and is carefull with is decision-making. A team does not need a team full of great defenders to be a good defensive team.

May and Lever will play a whole season, if  lever does another knee the team is in big trouble he cost a lot in picks and salary cap, I always thought 2 first round picks was too much to pay, ever few players are worth 2 first round picks, and especially a defender who has previously done a knee.

OMac had an absolute shocker of a year, hell he even bailed out for a few weeks after the bye, came back and was still woeful. 

Getting picked on has nothing to do with it. 

He either can do the job or he cannot

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3 hours ago, Fifty-5 said:

You're absolutely right, it says he's one of a handful of players to play most games in an injury ravaged year.

Using weighted composite averages to remove the bias effect of a B&F 'number of games played' voting system still saw Frosty finish the season ranked 11th and ahead of all defensive team mates.  Yes some would have had their form / output compromised somewhat coming back from injury for X number of games on return etc (eg., May & Lever) but it's still a rough guide / indicator that Frosty had a decent season (statistically).

And there needs to be some recognition given to situations such as May's, where he came into the side completely under done at season start vs say Frosty (for example) who had himself cherry ripe.  While some (many?) downside performance factors are incidental / accidental and the player in question has very little say (Lever for example), some are also individual player / pride driven and the player's professionalism, attitude and preparation / effort does have a say in their eventual performance / output during the year...

image.thumb.png.806891493536fb139e936c9de49163dd.png

Edited by Rusty Nails

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On 10/11/2019 at 3:59 PM, hemingway said:

My opinion only. 

The debate over Frosty is well known..

Sure there was Frostball but Sam was a member of team who all had a touch of Frostball. He was no better or worse in my opinion. 

Add to that his height and dash, his ability to kick long and willingness to chase and tackle brought more to the team than his deficits. And we have a group of defenders with chronic injury concerns.

On an emotional level it is sad to see a guy go that did not want to leave the club until it became obvious to him that he was not wanted. I thought the manner in which the thing was worked through by Mahoney and others showed little respect or dignity.  

I was a fan so I have a bias.

I am also one of those old fashioned guys that still value loyalty. I think that he had sufficient attributes that would have kept him at a club that went backwards this past season. 

Obviously, the Hawks value him more highly than Goodwin and crew. 

 

 

Watch this unfold miserably for us!! Clarko to mould him into a potential AA Superstar. THIS WILL BITE US ON THE ARRRRRZZZE

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6 hours ago, Dante said:

I liked/like Frost, but if you want to win a flag, he is the type of player you don't need. We have too many of those already and that's the reason i didn't go to one game this year, the first time that I can remember I didn't.

We had too many players that are excellent VFL players and not enough excellent AFL players, I looked at the team in the first game and wondered how we were supposed to win. 

We have let a few go and now time will tell if we have replaced them decent players, it's like we were back in the Neeld era, pulling unwanted players from the VFL/SANFL. It's very rare that a club like, say Collingwood, will have a player on their list who can't get on to the senior list, if they don't think he's good enough, then he probably isn't.

Good luck Frosty, hope you do well.

 

Ok,, I'll play which of our team will feature prominently in our next flag attempt??

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