2 hours ago, Diamond_Jim said:

If Hogan signed with MFC tomorrow we would probably be offering Weideman this year or next for a first rounder plus.

In this day and age you simply can't carry, game or salary cap wise, three key forwards.

Hogan not signing practically decided for us what may have been a difficult choice.

If you want to see what salary cap does to an unbalanced list have a look at GWS. They had planned for a premiership last year and this year. Now they look like having to unload Scully, Sheils and Lobb to ameliorate their salary cap issues.

If Goodie had have been coaching them this year they would have won the flag, that's the difference.

11 minutes ago, willmoy said:

Festival Hall the only place where you could swim in beer and get a free fight

Haha ? 

Jack Little “This Saturday Night....Festival Hall...”

1 hour ago, Bates Mate said:

Don't forget the pollution started with Greg " makes it up as he goes venom " Denom

The whole thing has a strong whiff of beat-up to it. Dees not driving it, Hoges "open to it" but not driving it, that leaves Freo, who have openly declared their interest for years.

I'm starting to think this story is a dud

Ed Langdon, along with one of their first round picks, is someone I'd love at the Dees and is exactly the type we need.

So say we traded Jesse Hogan to Fremantle for Ed Langdon and pick 4

Then we traded pick 4 and pick 43 to Gold Coast for Steven May and pick 26

So essentially,

IN: May, Langdon, pick 26

OUT: Hogan, pick 43

 

The possibilities of Gaff, Preuss, May, Shiels, 1st rd picks and Jessy staying is so complex and interesting that this conversation is both stimulating and redundant. 

34 minutes ago, Diamond_Jim said:

yeah but they are or each will be million dollar players.. can we afford them

If Weideman performs in 2019 (50 goals) he will be a million dollar renewal.

We got Tom Mac on the cheap (or a little cheaper) because he's not a long recognised forward.

 

I take your point DJ, but how do West Coast do it then? We were just stitched up by a team with 3 power forwards.....

The question for me remains: here's Hogan who came to the Demons when it was a basket case.

They are now poised to be s strong side.

Fremantle are not far from being a basket case whose coach has recently shown all the symptoms of a born loser. Why would you want to go back to playing for a basket case instead of a team you've helped to build up, which is on the brink of reaping what's been sown?

I guess the answer, if he went, would be money.

Sad really.

11 minutes ago, DemonLad5 said:

Ed Langdon, along with one of their first round picks, is someone I'd love at the Dees and is exactly the type we need.

So say we traded Jesse Hogan to Fremantle for Ed Langdon and pick 4

Then we traded pick 4 and pick 43 to Gold Coast for Steven May and pick 26

So essentially,

IN: May, Langdon, pick 26

OUT: Hogan, pick 43

 

That's one of the worst hypotheticals I've heard and I'd be mortified if we were to entertain anything close to that. 

Langdon? I really don't understand the crush many have on him. Yeh he's quick, cool. But he is far from classy and he doesn't use the ball well. Two things we are dying for. 

The only way we'll allow Hogan to leave this year is if we end up with a sweet arse deal. 

And the deal you've just outlined is hideous. 

10 minutes ago, Wadda We Sing said:

I take your point DJ, but how do West Coast do it then? We were just stitched up by a team with 3 power forwards.....

are you referring to Le Cras?

5 minutes ago, Wadda We Sing said:

I take your point DJ, but how do West Coast do it then? We were just stitched up by a team with 3 power forwards.....

Nic Nat is on big money as their main ruck. Lycett is about to leave for cash and  opportunity. Vardy was a cheap bargain buy back up.

Kennedy should be on big money, Darling on just solid very good player money, he had a career best start to the year but otherwise has always been more of a B+ type to me.

Eagles big money guys are likely Nic Nat, Kennedy, McGovern, Shuey and if he isn't already then soon to be Yeo. Then they have a number of solid guys like Hurn, Redden, Shepherd who should all be above average without breaking the bank.

We could keep Tommy Mc, Weeds and Hogan. I think if happy Hogan would make big but not out of control money, same with Tommy Mc's rumoured 800. Weid's out of contract next year. The greater issue is whether they'd all play together well, what that means for team performance and if it justifies spending all the money on one position group. 

From a purely financial point of view I think spending Hogan's money on a key defender and an outside midfielder would balance the list and create a better side.

1 minute ago, stevethemanjordan said:

 

The only way we'll allow Hogan to leave this year is if we end up with a sweet arse deal. 

And the deal you've just outlined is hideous. 

What do you propose?

I don't want Hogan to stay next year unless he signs a long term contract before pre season as all we are going to hear until the end of next season from the media is about whether he will stay or go, had enuff of this crap already.

24 minutes ago, stevethemanjordan said:

 

That's one of the worst hypotheticals I've heard and I'd be mortified if we were to entertain anything close to that. 

Langdon? I really don't understand the crush many have on him. Yeh he's quick, cool. But he is far from classy and he doesn't use the ball well. Two things we are dying for. 

The only way we'll allow Hogan to leave this year is if we end up with a sweet arse deal. 

And the deal you've just outlined is hideous. 

How many quick classy outside runners in the comp are there? A couple at GWS, McCluggage at Brisbane, Stephen Hill on his day (who we should look in to), Gaff who's about to go to North for a fortune. It isn't a long list. Even with average skills a quick outside runner would be an upgrade on what we currently have.

I don't think Hogan with a foot injury and only a year to run on his deal is fetching us 2 high quality assets unless you count mid to late first round picks. If May is 1 high quality asset then another useful player like Langdon and then something extra on the side ends up a pretty reasonable package to me. 

Edit: Just thinking about it I reckon we can probably get May for cheaper than I originally thought. I'd probably want the 3rd part of a May and Langdon deal to be a bit stronger than a pick upgrade. Maybe if we chucked in our own 2nd round pick and got back to the first round.

Edited September 26, 20186 yr by DeeSpencer

35 minutes ago, Fifty-5 said:

What do you propose?

Well firstly Zac Langdon is a former 56 draft pick. He wasn't injured in his draft year. That means there are knocks on him and if you watch him, you'll see there are. 

Hogan would have gone 1 or 2 in his draft year if not for the mini draft but he is clearly more valuable than that given his output to date. 

Two first round picks in exchange for hogan and a pick would be ideal. 

We exchange the worse one for May and maybe bundle a third rounder to get a second round pick back. And we hit the draft with the other unless we have something else in mind. 

Simples. 

We get May and head to the draft with a top 10 pick as well as a second rounder. 

 

Edited September 26, 20186 yr by stevethemanjordan

3 minutes ago, drysdale demon said:

I don't want Hogan to stay next year unless he signs a long term contract before pre season as all we are going to hear until the end of next season from the media is about whether he will stay or go, had enuff of this crap already.

and that is how many of us raised this topic and why the trade is very much alive... Jesse will not sign this year apparently.

Time to live with trades.... they aren't going to decrease if the AFLPA have their way.

BTW I think Hurley and Natinui's year must be just about due for UFA next year.

2 minutes ago, stevethemanjordan said:

Well firstly Zac Langdon is a former 56 draft pick. He wasn't injured in his draft year. That means there are knocks if you watch him, you'll see there are. 

Hogan would have gone 1 or 2 in his draft year if not for the mini draft but he is clearly more valuable than that given his output to date. 

Two first round picks in exchange for hogan and a pick would be ideal. 

We exchange the worse one for May and maybe bundle a third rounder to get a second round pick back. And we hit the draft with the other unless we have something else in mind. 

Simples. 

We get May and head to the draft with a top 10 pick as well as a second rounder. 

 

would love to do better but this is the way it's looking unless we can shake Shiels or better free

I'd like to remind posters that we gave up two first round picks for Lever. 

Think about this for a minute. 

Hogan has a greater body of work than Lever. He also has good knees. 

It's two first rounders min, and we better stick fat if this entire shambles is true. 

Edited September 26, 20186 yr by stevethemanjordan

3 hours ago, johndemonic said:

Agree with MAY acquisition. But what about offering pick 6 for dylan shiel and a late 2nd or mid range pick back and JT works his magic? Satisfies our immediate outside mid need. Do we really want to wait on the development curve of a pick 6 kid? Kelly, unless he's agreed in principle, then it's too much of a Longshot to plan around.

I really really like this train of thought a heck of a lot

We get 

Gorilla at Full back to play on Gorillas

Sheil  and outside Mid problem solved

Yeah like it a lot! 

Do in a heartbeat!

1 minute ago, stevethemanjordan said:

I'd like to remind posters that we gave up two first round picks for Lever. 

Think about this for a minute. 

Hogan has a greater body of work than Lever. He also has good knees. 

It's two first rounders min, and we better stick fat if this entire shambles is true. 

10, 15, 68 for 37 and 43. Makes Lever's value at pick 7, although that calculator always overrated high picks and we took a risk that we'd finish strongly and the Crows wouldn't.

Hogan's foot v Lever's knees. Hogan's struggles against top teams v Lever's struggles one on one.

If Freo give us pick 5 outright and Port are willing to split it to picks 9 and 10 then we're off to a good start. 

Otherwise if Freo give us pick 10 and Langdon but we can upgrade pick 32 to pick 18 with the Suns then that's worth consideration. May, 18 and Langdon is turning 1 big piece in to 3 useful pieces.

May is not a gorilla; he’s undersized for a modern key defender 

1 hour ago, Diamond_Jim said:

yeah but they are or each will be million dollar players.. can we afford them

If Weideman performs in 2019 (50 goals) he will be a million dollar renewal.

We got Tom Mac on the cheap (or a little cheaper) because he's not a long recognised forward.

 

You are overestimating their salaries.

7 minutes ago, whatwhatsaywhat said:

May is not a gorilla; he’s undersized for a modern key defender 

He's an immoveable nugget like mcGovern, it's more about what you have to get around than out reach. But if you're talking about the rare phenomena of 211cm forwards, you play your ruck or 2nd ruck loose deep or have a high leaping intercept like Lever and your kpb applying skillful body positioning.

Edited September 26, 20186 yr by johndemonic

5 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

You are overestimating their salaries.

Tom Boyd? Buddy? Roughead? Riewodlt? Kennedy? Lynch? Patton/Cameron and the list goes on

every one of them $1M plus

Sure they are not the panacea of three years ago but a key forward is where the big money's at.

Why would you be one of three when you can be the big Cohuna elsewhere.

The anomaly is Joe Daniher... rumored to have signed for around $660k.. why I'm not sure

What would Geelong pay for a forward come 2020

Edited September 26, 20186 yr by Diamond_Jim

5 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

10, 15, 68 for 37 and 43. Makes Lever's value at pick 7, although that calculator always overrated high picks and we took a risk that we'd finish strongly and the Crows wouldn't.

Hogan's foot v Lever's knees. Hogan's struggles against top teams v Lever's struggles one on one.

If Freo give us pick 5 outright and Port are willing to split it to picks 9 and 10 then we're off to a good start. 

Otherwise if Freo give us pick 10 and Langdon but we can upgrade pick 32 to pick 18 with the Suns then that's worth consideration. May, 18 and Langdon is turning 1 big piece in to 3 useful pieces.

I understand all of what you're saying, but I disagree. 

Hogan has the potential to be a generational player. May is 27 years old, Langdon doesn't fill any need unless you're talking about the fact that he shares an inability to use the ball along with some others on our list. And pick 18? Go and look up the list of players taken at that pick. It's quality over quantity in this case. We're not a basket case anymore. 

You're being too easy. Imagine what Essendon would ask for? If this is real, we need to take a hard stance. 

2 minutes ago, Diamond_Jim said:

Tom Boyd? Buddy? Roughead? Riewodlt? Kennedy? Lynch? and the list goes on

every one of them $1M plus

Sure they are not the panacea of three years ago but a key forward is where the big money's at.

Why would you be one of three when you can be the big Cohuna elsewhere.

Riewoldt and Roughead are not on a million at all. They all took pay cuts to keep a competitive list together. Boyd is the doggies being desperate, but hey it got em a flag. Buddy is worth every penny and so is Kennedy. Even then i'm not sure what Kennedy is on.