Post Match Discussion - Round 1

[Wiseblood 24,636]

I think we're missing the point with some of the analysis.  I know it's a very tough loss to take, but we really only have a few things to work on.

I've seen some people potting Goodwin for his motivational skills or the way he speaks at the pressers.  This means little and is wrong in many aspects.  If he couldn't motivate us, then how did we come out and kick 6 first quarter goals?  How were we able to wrest back control of the game when it looked like it was out of our hands at half time?  The bloke knows what he's doing.

We also didn't lose this one at the selection table.  I'm not sure how much of a difference Tyson or Brayshaw would have made, but we didn't struggle in terms of getting the ball forward, we didn't struggle for clearances and we did well in terms of contested possessions.  Would Tyson and Brayshaw have made our uncontested possessions any better, or improved our two way running?  Maybe, maybe not.

The real issue for us is the brain fades we have in certain quarters where we let teams get the better of us.  If you were to take that out of yesterday's game, and we break even, then we win this game of football.  That's simple fact.  The problem we face is how we fix that, what Plan B we have (that Geelong had when we got on top) and how our leaders communicate with each other to implement it during a game.

We can hang with the big boys, we have no problem hitting the scoreboard (we had 29 scoring shots) and we play a brand of football that stands up in big games.  We just need to work our way around a problem we shouldn't still have in terms of fade outs in quarters where we expose our back line and allow teams too many easy goals.

Fix that and we're on our way.

[DeeZee 6,805]

Salem didn’t get a touch in the second half after his knock, and was playing well before that.

We missed his pin point passing when we started to get more of it in the second half 

[Bay Riffin 1,426]

24 minutes ago, Hot as Hell said:

You must be kidding. 

Geelong were undermanned and beat us at nearly full strength. 

We could even leave out some of our better players. Goody said we had 30 to choose from. 

No back slapping if we had of won, because we would only have pinched it from the side who deserved to win and showed us how to play with their team of unknown kids. 

Look we lost it structurally early. Kids or not they set up very well and had heaps of experience out there. If we played again it would still be a singsong struggle. They look a top 4 side. 

[rjay 23,970]

15 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

I think we're missing the point with some of the analysis.  I know it's a very tough loss to take, but we really only have a few things to work on.

I've seen some people potting Goodwin for his motivational skills or the way he speaks at the pressers.  This means little and is wrong in many aspects.  If he couldn't motivate us, then how did we come out and kick 6 first quarter goals?  How were we able to wrest back control of the game when it looked like it was out of our hands at half time?  The bloke knows what he's doing.

We also didn't lose this one at the selection table.  I'm not sure how much of a difference Tyson or Brayshaw would have made, but we didn't struggle in terms of getting the ball forward, we didn't struggle for clearances and we did well in terms of contested possessions.  Would Tyson and Brayshaw have made our uncontested possessions any better, or improved our two way running?  Maybe, maybe not.

The real issue for us is the brain fades we have in certain quarters where we let teams get the better of us.  If you were to take that out of yesterday's game, and we break even, then we win this game of football.  That's simple fact.  The problem we face is how we fix that, what Plan B we have (that Geelong had when we got on top) and how our leaders communicate with each other to implement it during a game.

We can hang with the big boys, we have no problem hitting the scoreboard (we had 29 scoring shots) and we play a brand of football that stands up in big games.  We just need to work our way around a problem we shouldn't still have in terms of fade outs in quarters where we expose our back line and allow teams too many easy goals.

Fix that and we're on our way.

Scoring efficiency is the big one for me 'Wise'. That's the number one thing we need to work on. It comes from our ball movement and positioning (structure).

We can look at the inside 50's and we blitzed Geelong there , but I would prefer less inside 50's, better set up and more efficient.

A lot of our inside 50's were cheap....

Inside 50's don't win games, hitting the scoreboard does.

Edited March 25, 2018 by rjay

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

The issue of fumbling and running over the ball when on the ground needs to be addressed along with our panicked handballs in close (Oliver excluded).

 

[Lucifers Hero 37,227]

On 3/26/2018 at 8:53 AM, DeeZee said:

Salem didn’t get a touch in the second half after his knock, and was playing well before that.

We missed his pin point passing when we started to get more of it in the second half 

 

Agreed.  He was very valuable until this happened:

This was quite a few seconds after Selwood 'tunnelled' Salem.  What strikes me about this pic is that:

• Salem is out but is kept on the field. 
• He got a free but didn't get a 50m penalty (Is tunnelling a reportable offence - not that I expect the MRP to cite the untouchable Selwood). 
• The only demon player to fly the flag for Salem was our youngest - where were our leaders?  Not good enough to leave it to a 20 year old to face off with the opp captain when a teammate has gone down.

My love and admiration for Oliver has gone up even further after seeing this.  He brings so much more to our team than skill.  I like his toughness and his spunk. 

Nothing earns more respect (in my eyes) than sticking up for your mates.  Well done, Clarry. 

Edited September 30, 2023 by Lucifers Hero

[Deestar9 1,424]

9 hours ago, A F said:

Great post. Agree with pretty much all of it.

We did have 8 tackles in our forward 50 & Geelong had zero.....apart from that agree that  our delivery into our forward 50 was ordinary but our defence was horrible in the first half

[GawnWithTheWind 604]

Didn't anyone else notice we just couldn't will ourselves to get infront?

Late in the third and the whole fourth quarter, we kicked confident goals to bring it back to under 6 points. However, any forward entry or shot on goal when it was to put us in front, we choked.

Oliver, Melksham, Trac and then Gawn all choked when we needed them to step up.

No idea how to improve that... maybe some more of Mrs Roos meditation classes.

[Wiseblood 24,636]

13 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

 

Agreed.  He was very valuable until this happened:

This was quite a few seconds after Selwood 'tunnelled' Salem.  What strikes me about this pic is that:

• Salem is out but is kept on the field. 
• He got a free but didn't get a 50m penalty (Is tunnelling a reportable offence - not that I expect the MRP to cite the untouchable Selwood). 
• The only demon player to fly the flag for Salem was our youngest - where were our leaders?  Not good enough to leave it to a 20 year old to face off with the opp captain when a teammate has gone down.

My love and admiration for Oliver has gone up even further after seeing this.  He brings so much more to our team than skill.  I like his toughness and his spunk. 

Nothing earns more respect (in my eyes) than sticking up for your mates.  Well done, Clarry. 

I agree that it was great of Clarry to stick up for him, but I didn't think there was anything malicious in what Selwood did.  He turned his back a little and certainly him, but I don't think he did it to hurt him.  Clarry giving Selwood a bit of a push and shove was enough.

I also agree that Salem had been terrific up until that point.  He struggled mightily after that for obvious reasons.

[Wiseblood 24,636]

25 minutes ago, rjay said:

Scoring efficiency is the big one for me 'Wise'. That's the number one thing we need to work on. It comes from our ball movement and positioning (structure).

We can look at the inside 50's and we blitzed Geelong there , but I would prefer less inside 50's, better set up and more efficient.

A lot of our inside 50's were cheap....

Inside 50's don't win games, hitting the scoreboard does.

Very true rjay.  

What I think this correlates with is our Plan B as I was mentioning before.  In the first term we kicked 6 goals and looked a million bucks.  We only added 7 more for the game, although we missed a raft of gettable shots.  When Geelong changed their gameplan we didn't have a Plan B of our own to counteract this, and only when we came out after half time did we make a few changes that helped.  

However, our efficiency going forward still didn't improve and I think that was a combination of not having enough composure and the Cats defending super well.

I think we'll improve it in the coming weeks.

[juzzk1d 1,354]

I find it incredibly frustrating when our targets always seem to lead to the boundary line in our forward fifty. Why aren't we just hitting the hot spot, and giving our smalls in Melksham and ANB the best chance to score with snaps around their bodies in front of goal? Why make it even harder for ourselves by trying to hit someone lace out to a bloke that's 40m out on the boundary line?

[Lucifers Hero 37,227]

1 minute ago, Wiseblood said:

I agree that it was great of Clarry to stick up for him, but I didn't think there was anything malicious in what Selwood did.  He turned his back a little and certainly him, but I don't think he did it to hurt him.  Clarry giving Selwood a bit of a push and shove was enough.

I also agree that Salem had been terrific up until that point.  He struggled mightily after that for obvious reasons.

Selwood knew exactly what he was doing - he backed into Salem while in the air.  Tunnelling is really dangerous whether or not it is malicious.

I didn't necessarily think it was malicious either but it was close enough for the umpire to warn Selwood with 'careful, Joel careful' several times. 

My post was mostly to draw attention to Clarry flying the flag for Salem.

[DeeZee 6,805]

I thought Geelong did a great job in making our dangerous smalls in Garlett, Melksham, ANB and Hannan almost redundant in the game by marking everything that came their way.

[binman 38,837]

5 minutes ago, GawnWithTheWind said:

Didn't anyone else notice we just couldn't will ourselves to get infront?

Late in the third and the whole fourth quarter, we kicked confident goals to bring it back to under 6 points. However, any forward entry or shot on goal when it was to put us in front, we choked.

Oliver, Melksham, Trac and then Gawn all choked when we needed them to step up.

No idea how to improve that... maybe some more of Mrs Roos meditation classes.

Yes, we definetley showed a lcak of composure.

I think just at critically is we had got 10 points up early in the second. if we had got the next goal it would have gone out to a 3 goal lead and the cats would have been under big pressure. Instead we gave up quick goals, including that gift from Lewis, (which i don't think he has got sufficient criticism for in the press. Unforgivable from a leader). 

Easy to say kick another to stretch the Cats but the really good teams find that goal (often driven by  a leader) and then hold form and don't leak easy goals. Which is one reason why the best teams win when they are at their best. 

[DistrACTION Jackson 6,504]

After some reflection of yesterday's game I have surmised that the reason we lost was due to a number of our players being well below their best. Specifically I'm thinking Hibberd, Jetta, Garlett, Lever & Hannan, but there were a few more.

Before the game I thought that our main strength against the Cats was that we have greater depth across the whole ground, I still believe that. However, the Cats have the elite stars in Selwood & Ablett who were the two best players on the ground (Max comes close).

To win I thought we needed an even contribution to outweigh the impact of their stars. Unfortunately, we didn't get that and it was left to our stars in Gawn, Petracca & Oliver to carry the majority of the load. They couldn't quite get the job done, but I took a lot out of the game knowing we were well below our best and still matched it with them.

For us to play finals and possibly win finals we are going to need n even contribution from the side, and I'm backing the players in to turn it around!

[Wiseblood 24,636]

7 minutes ago, DeeZee said:

I thought Geelong did a great job in making our dangerous smalls in Garlett, Melksham, ANB and Hannan almost redundant in the game by marking everything that came their way.

I agree DeeZee.  In the first half especially they kept them super quiet.  I thought Harmes and Melksham were two who improved in the second half, but not doubt the others had off days and that hurt us big time.

[rjay 23,970]

51 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

 

Agreed.  He was very valuable until this happened:

This was quite a few seconds after Selwood 'tunnelled' Salem.  What strikes me about this pic is that:

• Salem is out but is kept on the field. 
• He got a free but didn't get a 50m penalty (Is tunnelling a reportable offence - not that I expect the MRP to cite the untouchable Selwood). 
• The only demon player to fly the flag for Salem was our youngest - where were our leaders?  Not good enough to leave it to a 20 year old to face off with the opp captain when a teammate has gone down.

My love and admiration for Oliver has gone up even further after seeing this.  He brings so much more to our team than skill.  I like his toughness and his spunk. 

Nothing earns more respect (in my eyes) than sticking up for your mates.  Well done, Clarry. 

...and he nailed Selwood a few times after this in some crunching tackles. Made him feel it.

Joel was less than happy about it either.

[Longsufferingnomore 1,484]

2 minutes ago, rjay said:

...and he nailed Selwood a few times after this in some crunching tackles. Made him feel it.

Joel was less than happy about it either.

Selwood and Ablett continually called for a free when they were tackled. They think they are the untouchables.

[jackaub 1,402]

Just now, longsuffering said:

Selwood and Ablett continually called for a free when they were tackled. They think they are the untouchables.

they are simple as that

[ILLDieADemon 804]

9 hours ago, Petraccattack said:

Minus Dangerfield and a man down from the 1st quarter.

Was a weak effort.

 

We had Viney and McDonald out. Viney would have stoped Ablet and McDonald would have stuck a couple of marks in the 4th when we needed it.

[Leoncelli_36 2,264]

we will lose to Brisbane...mark it down. We are not where we think we are. We lack a key defender...Lever was never that and never will be. Our midfield has a core group of A Graders and then drops right away. We had no speed yesterday. The Forward line is completely dysfunctional, as is the plan to simply 'bomb it in' at every opportunity.  Goodwin has already stated he didn't think he got any selections wrong, so given his stubbornness and unwillingness to ever take personal responsibility for losses, I expect an unchanged team and a loss in Brisbane. The Lions pushed us all the way last year and I expect that in Brisbane, they will be too strong. 

[waynewussell 4,092]

Why were the Cats allowed to have four men on the mark for Gawn's last shot at goal? Careless umpiring... in my view it should have been a 50 metre penalty with the mark repositioned on the goal line... Try missing from there Max!

[Leoncelli_36 2,264]

Just now, waynewussell said:

Why were the Cats allowed to have four men on the mark for Gawn's last shot at goal? Careless umpiring... in my view it should have been a 50 metre penalty with the mark repositioned on the goal line... Try missing from there Max!

I actually thought about that too? What is the exact rule there?

 

[Dee Zephyr 17,844]

8 minutes ago, Leoncelli_36 said:

we will lose to Brisbane...mark it down. We are not where we think we are. We lack a key defender...Lever was never that and never will be. Our midfield has a core group of A Graders and then drops right away. We had no speed yesterday. The Forward line is completely dysfunctional, as is the plan to simply 'bomb it in' at every opportunity.  Goodwin has already stated he didn’t think he got any selections wrong, so given his stubbornness and unwillingness to ever take personal responsibility for losses, I expect an unchanged team and a loss in Brisbane. The Lions pushed us all the way last year and I expect that in Brisbane, they will be too strong. 

From the 5 talking points article.

Pre-game, Melbourne coach Simon Goodwin said Angus Brayshaw and Dom Tyson had simply been overlooked for selection, such is the strength of the Dees' depth.

So glad we can simply overlook those 2.

[hemingway 7,601]

On one hand, incredibly disappointing. 

So much a reminder of last season.  Showed so much promise in first Q then we go missing.

As with last year, so close but no victory. 

Too many missing for too long.  Too reliant on a small group of players who put in and have a real crack. Poor skills. Field kicking inaccurate, hand passes under pressure, fumbles, tackles that don't stick.  We have seen it all before.

Lack of composure.

Some rapid ball movement but reaction time and leg speed slower than the Cats. 

Sadly, I think time has caught up with Lewis. 

The same players go missing. 

Game plan? Match day tactics? No apparent tactical changes on the day when we lose our way. 

Lets face it, the Cats performance was not great. They would have lost that game against most other sides. 

On the other hand, we retained the ability to scrap and win the contest. 

We retained the will to win despite the poor execution. 

Strangely, we looked rusty. 

There is much to work on. We can only get better. Gawn was terrific and our centre clearances impressive. Petracca looks to have come of age, and others show good signs. I liked Hogan's run and willingness to be part of the contest. Great improvement in effort and body language. McDonald was solid and showed composure. Lever can only get better. Fritisch showed great promise and loved his attack on the player despite his light frame. 

But we will need to get better very quickly otherwise we will drop more matches that we should win. 

On the basis of this game, I was disappointed but remain optimistic. 

There are so many Demon supporters who are just ready to explode on match day. Expectations are high. Demon fans came alive in the last Q and exploded when Gawny took his  big mark.

So much supporter fervour to be captured by this team.