Farewell Jack Watts

[Redleg 41,963]

45 minutes ago, Biffen said:

Tell Varcoe

He knows already.

[BenJamin on Deesy St 805]

1 hour ago, Biffen said:

Yes trade him while he's playing good footy but bad mouth him so we get SFA in return.Good plan.And my point re Flower was about tackling and defensive effort-thats it.But in retrospect RF played in teams that could actually kick a drop punt to him whereas Watts leads go ignored in favour of a turnover kick.

Sorry if I misrepresented the comparison you were making, but I can’t see any similarities, defensively or offensively.

Robbie, you may recall, also played in some pretty crap teams, arguably worse than what JW has played in. No silver service for him. For a long time, he was the only reason to go and watch the Dees. Game was played then as a series of one on one contests, which he, despite his size, invariably won.

[spirit of norm smith 16,617]

32 minutes ago, Is Dom Is Good said:

Please do not compare trading Jack Watts to de-listing James McDonald.

One was a heart and soul captain who squeezed every bit of talent out of his body.

The other is a highly talented, but flakey player who doesn't seem to understand what is required to be a top AFL player.

Didn’t compare Watts to J-McDonald in playing style. Compared with coaching decisions to get rid of popular players like Woewodin, Spalding, Green & J.Mcdonald. Get the context.  

It impacts club, players & supporters morale and has shown to not be beneficial.  I hope it pans out or MFC will have self destructed again. Top 4 in 2018 is the benchmark 

[Mazer Rackham 14,971]

11 hours ago, bing181 said:

Presumably this is at Bernie's wedding (via Matt Jones)

 

Do these young mens' girlfriends really allow them to dress like that?

[Mazer Rackham 14,971]

9 hours ago, demoniac said:

A question I have never asked to this point in my life. What colour shoes do you wear with a burgundy suit? Not sure Jack has answered correctly.

That's a trick question.

 

Answer: don't wear a burgundy suit.

[Gator 17,972]

57 minutes ago, Sargent Shultz said:

I could not agree more

Here is a quote in support of your proposition.

Coaches who can outline plays on a blackboard are a dime a dozen. The ones who win get inside their player and motivate. Vince Lombardi

In the player/coach relationship - its the coach who has failed, if they cant motivate the player with talent.

but then again.......

 

 

 

Are you suggesting all players can be motivated to become the best they can be ?

[daisycutter 29,892]

10 hours ago, demoniac said:

A question I have never asked to this point in my life. What colour shoes do you wear with a burgundy suit? Not sure Jack has answered correctly.

i'd suggest green moccasins or if a warm day fluoro thongs

however only a full-bore anglophile or a homicide devotee would wear a brown suit

[Sir Why You Little 37,313]

3 hours ago, CBDees said:

We are not forced to take anything whatsoever. We can retain Watts unless we get a pick in the range that suits our needs. 

Exactly... 

[The heart beats true 18,183]

9 hours ago, spirit of norm smith said:

Watts has been loyal when others like Scully & Frawley walked away. Watts has always had the best intent for MFC. 

Do we ‘know’ that anyone else has actually ever enquired towards Jack during his career? I mean it looks like we are giving him up for around pick 30, and even then only one club is keen. That tells you a lot about how the system views him.

I also think he got paid overs by the MFC because we didn’t have anyone else coming up and couldn’t afford to lose players and feel even more like a sinking ship. That’s not true anymore.

As for him having the best intent for the MFC, well that seems to be counter to the reports about his effort and endeavour over last preseason. 

Lets not rewrite history here. He’s a lovely guy, but he’s been paid well over market value for 75% of his career.

[Nasher 33,617]

9 hours ago, demoniac said:

Have you considered publishing a coffee table best of book of deleted demonland posts?

Haha, no. I can't recall ever having deleted a single post that I felt better for having seen.

People do go a little loopy though. In this thread alone, one of the posters participating in this thread accused me of deleting his posts because I'm not on the same side of the argument as him, when actually I have no idea what post he is talking about, who deleted it or why he would assume it was me when there are half a dozen people it could be. I'm pretty sure I haven't deleted any posts in this thread. 

In reality, every time I log on, this thread alone has added six pages, but for some reason people think we have the time or inclination to read them all ?

[Redleg 41,963]

Dees just get 30 and 33 for Watts and 45.

Give 30 to Lions for Schache.

66 to Dockers for Balic.

Go to draft with a couple of picks unless we trade out say Kent or retire Garland.

Edited October 14, 2017 by Redleg

[jumbo returns 6,741]

Dean Kent!

Yes!

New whipping boy....so, Tyson, Melksham, OMac, TMac and Kent!

I'm salivating already

[Sir Why You Little 37,313]

8 hours ago, bandicoot said:

30 at this point is a win... Melbourne could stuff this deal even more and we are forced to take pick 50.

30 is not a win. If that is the best that can be offered, he should be played at Casey until his brain gets “it”

To be thrown 30 (+) so Jack walks and we still have to pay a % of his salary is not a deal. 

It is a complete farce. 

I do not want even a small amount of my Membership contribution going to another club, who we have to play during the year. 

The ONLY time that is remotely acceptable is when we need to ease salary cap pressure, and even then it is an admission of guilt on list management practises...

[Redleg 41,963]

3 minutes ago, jumbo returns said:

Dean Kent!

Yes!

New whipping boy....so, Tyson, Melksham, OMac, TMac and Kent!

I'm salivating already

Silly boy Jumbo, he might just want to go home.Then again he might not.

If for example he was going to struggle for opportunity and wanted to go home, you would be against helping him out.

[Vogon Poetry 2,095]

7 minutes ago, Nasher said:

 

 

In one of the older versions of the Demonland software there was a feature that allowed you to see how many times a contributor posted on a particular thread by just clicking on the number of posts in the thread title.

It would be particularly fascinating on this thread!

Nash?

[Umpire Please 120]

11 hours ago, rpfc said:

You're kidding yourself. 

The bloke is now the difference between us and a flag?

I am assuming that is what is the conclusion of 'instrumental, logical, and positive' things would be?

We need to beat teams like Freo at home, NM beat us twice, and in the biggest game in a decade we start like that against Collingwood?

We are fast running out of excuses and are about to be plum out of scapegoats come Monday. I hope Nate Jones and the boys are ready for the real acid in 2018. I expect top 4 and I expect to win or be beaten by an amazing team.

Agree 100% and throw Hogan in there as well. Goodwin and the FD have to get these players deep into the Finals next year or We should be expecting his job and several of the others in the FD to be on the line. NO MORE EXCUSES!!! The way this has played out with JW he must have been a festering trouble maker that has retarded the whole playing group and is the number one reason MFC missed the finals this year. Well Goodwin and your cohorts he is gone so no excuses. We don't care if Gawn gets injured, Pedo has a bad day, Hogan is beating himself up in the pocket, Jones is being his selfish best,Vince, Viney, Bugg & Lewis are out for striking the Mac boys are turning the ball over and can't hit a target, no excuses no Watts to blame, finals or you should resign.

Edited October 14, 2017 by Umpire Please

[Coq au vin 755]

6 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

30 is not a win. If that is the best that can be offered, he should be played at Casey until his brain gets “it”

To be thrown 30 (+) so Jack walks and we still have to pay a % of his salary is not a deal. 

It is a complete farce. 

I do not want even a small amount of my Membership contribution going to another club, who we have to play during the year. 

The ONLY time that is remotely acceptable is when we need to ease salary cap pressure, and even then it is an admission of guilt on list management practises...

We paid Travis Johnstone at the bears. Another flawed number 1 draft pick...

[thevil1 421]

So is it official we will pay part of his salary if traded? Because I've only heard that here, did I miss something?

[Engorged Onion 10,224]

1 hour ago, Sargent Shultz said:

I could not agree more

Here is a quote in support of your proposition.

Coaches who can outline plays on a blackboard are a dime a dozen. The ones who win get inside their player and motivate. Vince Lombardi

In the player/coach relationship - its the coach who has failed, if they cant motivate the player with talent.

but then again.......

 

 

 

Ahhh Schulzy , that is old school thinking at its finest... coaching courses that are AFL endorsed include - SDT (Deci and Ryan) https://www.learning-theories.com/self-determination-theory-deci-and-ryan.html

tis not about getting external motivation (e.g.: do you hear any club, ever, discussing how their getting up and more motivated for a players 200/300th?)  - all about the intrinsic , and that is the players responsibility, the coach(es) can merely provide the framework.

If, this is all about effort levels from Jack - then its up to him in whatever context to produce it to a level that is mutual agreed upon - I would suspect that Goodwin and co have seen enough to acknowledge that Jack cannot do so in the MFC environment, - of course he may do elsewhere.. 

 

 

Edited October 14, 2017 by Danelska

[Sargent Shultz 267]

8 minutes ago, ProDee said:

Are you suggesting all players can be motivated to become the best they can be ?

Basically yes. although "motivate" is a very limiting word that suggests a short-term event such as a rousing speech at halftime, rather a full year of developing an individual about life & footy and dealing with all aspects of their make up. Most of the "trade JW" posts seem to point the finger of blame at JW and absolve the coach(s) of any responsibility. I suspect both Watts and Stringer will pop up at another club and emerge of the next few years as great players and both the dogs and dees will regret their decision.

here is some interesting reading.

"2012 represented a step backwards for Martin both on the field and off. On 3 July 2012, Martin and teammate Daniel Connors missed a mandatory training session at the club. According to a statement released by Richmond, the pair had taken prescription sleeping medication the night prior and had overslept. Martin had also been drinking that night and had the medication prescribed. The club said both had failed to uphold team standards and Martin was suspended for two weeks for the incident. Meanwhile, Connors, who was on a final warning under coach Hardwick, was sacked.^[11] After fourth and third place finishes in the club's best-and-fairest the years prior, Martin would only manage 10th spot in 2012"

We all know what happened after - the coaches at Richmond, mostly Hardwick I would guess, clearly decided to take on the challenge and work with Martin "to become the best he can be" and it worked.

The easy, soft option would  have been to trade him

 

[beelzebub 23,390]

23 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Exactly... 

You are when youve shut the door.

[Nasher 33,617]

5 minutes ago, Vogon Poetry said:

In one of the older versions of the Demonland software there was a feature that allowed you to see how many times a contributor posted on a particular thread by just clicking on the number of posts in the thread title.

It would be particularly fascinating on this thread!

Nash?

I have wondered where that went too. I'll have a look.

[thevil1 421]

2 minutes ago, Umpire Please said:

Agree 100% and throw Hogan in there as well. Goodwin and the FD have to get these players deep into the Finals next year or We should be expecting his job and several of the others in the FD to be on the line. NO MORE EXCUSES!!! The way this has played out with JW he must have been a festering trouble maker that has retarded the whole playing group and is the number won reason MFC missed the finals this year. Well Goodwin and your cohorts he is gone so no excuses. We don't care if Gawn gets injured, Pedo has a bad day, Hogan is beating himself up in the pocket, Jones is being his selfish best,Vince, Viney, Bugg & Lewis are out for striking the Mac boys are turning the ball over and can't hit a target, no excuses no Watts to blame, finals or you should resign.

Having a go at blokes who have a real crack for the club in order to defend a pea heart...... give this dummy spitting child a supporter of the yeat award!! 

[Biffen 12,949]

51 minutes ago, Ben E said:

Sorry if I misrepresented the comparison you were making, but I can’t see any similarities, defensively or offensively.

Robbie, you may recall, also played in some pretty crap teams, arguably worse than what JW has played in. No silver service for him. For a long time, he was the only reason to go and watch the Dees. Game was played then as a series of one on one contests, which he, despite his size, invariably won.

here are a few similarities between RF and JW.

Both loved the club and signed on in dark times despite more attractive offers.

Both have sublime foot skills on both sides of the body.

Both could play in a number of positions

Both played in terrible teams but my argument was that in RFs time the players kicking to his vicinity could at least kick a drop punt that allowed Robbie to leap at the ball with some certainty.

In an era when have had deplorable foot skills, JW has had no hope of knowing where the ball will go next.

For what ever reason,JW has been smart enough to hang outside the contest when we often swarm into the contest like flies.

[thevil1 421]

Keep trying to put jack in the same category as RF!!! ?????