Farewell Jack Watts

[sue 9,146]

3 minutes ago, jumbo returns said:

The story was about him, but he got asked the inevitable Watts' question and fell for the bait..

' Whatever happens to Jack is his own doing' - paraphrasing...

I wish he would have just deflected the question

That is pretty nasty.  Jones has just gone well down in my estimation.  Still sensitive about his demotion to VC? (See, I can be equally nasty.)

[Sargent Shultz 267]

1 hour ago, bluey said:

Why would he be a making a speech at the B&F.?

"Its a great honour to be standing here today, I have too many people to thunk after finishing 29th in the Bluey, to reward you all I have decided to hang around and collect another two years salary".

Standing ovation, "we love you Jacko, thanks for taking us down the road to loserville".

Here is the speech that should be made on Monday.

Simon Goodwin "id like to apologise to the team, fans and to Jack Watts for my failure over the last few years as assistant coach and last year as senior coach to extract the performance from Jack that we all know he is capable of. Unlike how Harwick worked with Martin, and Thompson worked with Johnson etc, etc I decided to take the Howe/Buckley route and pass the problem player to another coach who can get the job done (Howe finished 4th in collingwoods B+F and nominated All Australian) I admit I don't know much about managing Millennials, they just don't respond the way my generation did"

[ding 5,126]

4 minutes ago, sue said:

That is pretty nasty.  Jones has just gone well down in my estimation.  Still sensitive about his demotion to VC? (See, I can be equally nasty.)

Geez, how dare our captain demand high standards.

The cheek of him.

 

[chook fowler 19,571]

5 minutes ago, sue said:

That is pretty nasty.  Jones has just gone well down in my estimation.  Still sensitive about his demotion to VC? (See, I can be equally nasty.)

I see it as truth telling rather than nastiness.

[PaulRB 6,411]

5 minutes ago, jumbo returns said:

Of course you do

This singlemindedness will win us a premiership, with no spiritual and well being nurturing....right

Hardwick says hello, btw

So we need to keep Jack on as our unofficial “love guru”, to give out snuggly hugs and lead the team in rowdy post-win renditions of “Sweet Caroline”, despite not being as committed to doing all the work required of a senior professional footballer as many of his team mates...? 

 

[TeamPlayedFine39 8,511]

5 minutes ago, Sargent Shultz said:

Here is the speech that should be made on Monday.

Simon Goodwin "id like to apologise to the team, fans and to Jack Watts for my failure over the last few years as assistant coach and last year as senior coach to extract the performance from Jack that we all know he is capable of. Unlike how Harwick worked with Martin, and Thompson worked with Johnson etc, etc I decided to take the Howe/Buckley route and pass the problem player to another coach who can get the job done (Howe finished 4th in collingwoods B+F and nominated All Australian) I admit I don't know much about managing Millennials, they just don't respond the way my generation did"

That’s the second time you’ve said Goodwin got rid of Howe.  Howe left us, he asked for a trade and Roos was the senior coach when he departed.

[Redleg 41,610]

16 minutes ago, jumbo returns said:

The story was about him, but he got asked the inevitable Watts' question and fell for the bait..

' Whatever happens to Jack is his own doing' - paraphrasing...

I wish he would have just deflected the question

But isn't that the honest answer.

Watts is contracted and can refuse to move. He will be paid if he plays Seniors or Casey.

He can say" stuff you, I am staying and will do so well you have to play me". He has that right and option. We have said if there is no better option for Jack he will stay  

OR he can explore options and leave. It is his choice even if he has been made to feel unwanted.

Jones is correct, what comes next will be Jack's doing. It is his choice.

Tell Goodwin at the B & F I am staying, honouring my contract and I will make you play me. 

Edited October 8, 2017 by Redleg

[sue 9,146]

Just now, chook fowler said:

I see it as truth telling rather than nastiness.

Some truths don't need telling in public.     How would you react if Viney came out and made some remark about how it was a good thing Jones wasn't left as sole Captain because he is not much of a leader (as many here have said happens ot be the 'truth')?  

[Big Carl 333]

After the pointed comments this week from the MFC if I was Jack I would clean my locker out.

[Sargent Shultz 267]

1 minute ago, TeamPlayedFine39 said:

That’s the second time you’ve said Goodwin got rid of Howe.  Howe left us, he asked for a trade and Roos was the senior coach when he departed.

understand- but it's a two-way street whenever a person leaves an organisation, even a footy club, there is a failure on both sides, The point I am trying to get across is that the manager/coach must bear some, part or all of the responsibility. To simply put all the blame on Jack Watts is naive.  

[sue 9,146]

1 minute ago, Redleg said:

But isn't that the honest answer.

Watts is contracted and can refuse to move. He will be paid if he plays Seniors or Casey.

He can say" stuff you, I am staying and will do so well you have to play me". He has that right and option. We have said if there is no better option for Jack he will stay  

OR he can explore options and leave. It is his choice even if he has been made to feel unwanted.

Jones is correct, what comes next will be Jack's doing. It is his choice.

That relies on a reading of what is meant by "Jack's doing" .  Is it referring to his 'choice' or the fact that he is in this position?   The original post on this didn't mention the word 'next' which you have interpolated to imply that all Jones was saying it's Watt's choice as to what happens next (to which I'd have no objection).  But I haven't heard the interview. 

[jumbo returns 6,741]

3 minutes ago, PaulRB said:

So we need to keep Jack on as our unofficial “love guru”, to give out snuggly hugs and lead the team in rowdy post-win renditions of “Sweet Caroline”, despite not being as committed to doing all the work required of a senior professional footballer as many of his team mates...? 

 

PaulRB, I'm going to reply to your sarcastic post and then I'm done on this topic

Watts, in my eyes, in still developing. Before you scoff at this, I don't count the pre Roos' era as remotely close to any sort of player development. Roos found a niche for Watts and his last few years have been very good. He's not a crash and destroyer - he's about open space, delivery and finding the right options

But, alas, it seems that the feedback to Watts (to improve standards) had to play out in a public arena. Now, he's going. You, and many others got what you wanted

My journo son just got a text from a source who told him that Hogan met with Fyfe last week - make of that what you will

Btw, I have no issues with you as a poster - I appreciate the debate with you

[PaulRB 6,411]

To paraphrase what Roos said at last years B&F, and some here have noted, Jack needs to decide to be great, and undertake everything he can that that decision implies. 

If he made that decision, he could stay with honour, and rebuild the respect of his club that he’s so evidently lost. 

If unwilling or unable to make that decision to be great (and commit to it) I’d prefer he left. 

[jumbo returns 6,741]

14 minutes ago, chook fowler said:

I see it as truth telling rather than nastiness.

Not in a public forum - support/respect how your (ex) teammate might be traveling...

[DemonOX 8,801]

3 hours ago, Cards13 said:

Don't agree at all. Are the 3 players who nominated ESS the players we want? Probably not so we wouldn't have spoken to their managers, they may want more money that we want to pay, we may have other options for the position they play... there will be multiple reasons why to say players don't want to come to us is not true when you look at Lever, and there will be more conversations going on.

I agree with wat U r saying cards but I’m just sic of seeing other teams go past us. 

Its bloody frustrating that it happens season after season. 

In want us to be that team for once. 

[Lord Travis 10,763]

The club has handled this whole situation poorly. People are laying into Jack for not performing well 100% of the time... did they not see the rest of the players this year? They were up and down like a yo-yo! Put in the effort when they felt like it, and couldn't be bothered other weeks if it seemed it would be too hard. Jack is being made a scape goat (again) despite him clearly not being the worst performer in the team, and putting in efforts consistent with all his teammates. At the end of the day, Goodwin and his coaching staff have a top 8 quality list and failed to motivate them all, including Jack. 2017 in reflection is a year where Goodwin got found out as an inexperienced coach and poor motivator. If Roos or another experienced coach had been in charge of the list we had available this year, we would've made finals and likely top 4. If Goodwin is trying to force Jack out to make another statement, and it fractures the playing group and we lose Hogan in the process etc. then as a people manager he is no better than Neeld. There's a time and place to be a hard ass, and he clearly hasn't learnt when that is yet. 

2018 is massive for Goodwin. If we miss finals again I'd say he deserves the chop. If Jack is injury free, he will have yet another good year regardless of which club he is at. Jack deserves better treatment than the club is giving him and if I was him I'd move on. For the clubs sake I hope he doesn't though, as we lack good kicking skills and smarts going forward. Losing him would only add to our biggest problem!

Edited October 8, 2017 by Lord Travis

[PaulRB 6,411]

There’s an erroneous assumption that these issues of Jack performance are a recent discussion and “are being played out in the public arena”, etc... 

these questions and doubts about Jack’s commitment have been going on for years... and intensified this year as Jack flatlined as our list improved, to the extent that Jack is now a marginal and expendable element in our forward plans. 

 

Edited October 8, 2017 by PaulRB

[Dr.D 1,771]

18 minutes ago, Sargent Shultz said:

Here is the speech that should be made on Monday.

Simon Goodwin "id like to apologise to the team, fans and to Jack Watts for my failure over the last few years as assistant coach and last year as senior coach to extract the performance from Jack that we all know he is capable of. Unlike how Harwick worked with Martin, and Thompson worked with Johnson etc, etc I decided to take the Howe/Buckley route and pass the problem player to another coach who can get the job done (Howe finished 4th in collingwoods B+F and nominated All Australian) I admit I don't know much about managing Millennials, they just don't respond the way my generation did"

sorry i need to call this out.

goodwin doesnt owe anything to watts. if anything watts should be apologising to goodwin, neeld, bailey, roos and all of the assistants for wasting their resources and not putting his head over the footy.

 

[PaulRB 6,411]

10 minutes ago, jumbo returns said:

PaulRB, I'm going to reply to your sarcastic post and then I'm done on this topic

Watts, in my eyes, in still developing. Before you scoff at this, I don't count the pre Roos' era as remotely close to any sort of player development. Roos found a niche for Watts and his last few years have been very good. He's not a crash and destroyer - he's about open space, delivery and finding the right options

But, alas, it seems that the feedback to Watts (to improve standards) had to play out in a public arena. Now, he's going. You, and many others got what you wanted

My journo son just got a text from a source who told him that Hogan met with Fyfe last week - make of that what you will

Btw, I have no issues with you as a poster - I appreciate the debate with you

I agree Jack has potential to grow into a better player. But that’s exactly why his inability (or disinclination) to take that step is so vexing. 

As the saying goes: “You can lead a horse to water but you can’t make it drink”. Jacks had 1st class coaches, facilities, opportunities for the past three years. Many players are flourishing, players now see the MFC as a place to be. But Jack’s been choosing not to fully leverage this opportunity... 

Edited October 8, 2017 by PaulRB

[jumbo returns 6,741]

Just now, PaulRB said:

I agree Jack has potential to grow into a better player. But that’s exactly why his inability (or disinclination) to take that step is so vexing. 

Okay....has he been given the wake up call he needed?

[DemonOX 8,801]

50 minutes ago, jumbo returns said:

I see the skipper was bad mouthing his (ex) teammate again on Ch 9 news last night

Shut up, Jonesy 

 

I think Jonesy should be working on his on field leadership rather than worrying and commenting/bagging Watts. 

[FarNorthernD 5,861]

15 minutes ago, PaulRB said:

So the captain is espousing the players take personal responsibility for their performance and respect within the club..? 

Love it.

That some can interpret this as decisive shows the corrosive effect that one player not taking personal responsibility, can have on a group aspiring to elite performance. 

If Jones took ‘personal responsibility for his performance’ he perhaps would have stepped down as leader after he failed to direct any players to get behind the ball against the Saints with 13 seconds to go. Perhaps he would have taken some responsibility for the completely inept first quarter debacle against a Collingwood seconds side in the last round. Or any of the myriad of times that he has gone missing when we have needed someone to stand up and inspire. 

I actually am a Nathan Jones fan but where is the personal responsibility from Nathan aside from potting his own teammate? Where is the personal responsibility from Tyson for missing so many targets? Where is the personal responsibility from Hogan that he can’t kick accurately over 35m? Where is the elite performance here that you are talking about? 

It will be interesting if the Club forces Watts out, which causes Hogan to have chats with Freo, which causes Lever to have second thoughts about coming to us. Who  takes personal responsibility for that?

[PaulRB 6,411]

3 minutes ago, jumbo returns said:

Okay....has he been given the wake up call he needed?

I hope so, and if he has, I hope he stays. 

But if he hasn’t, I hope he goes. 

As Jones said “it’s up to him”.

[PaulRB 6,411]

6 minutes ago, fndee said:

If Jones took ‘personal responsibility for his performance’ he perhaps would have stepped down as leader after he failed to direct any players to get behind the ball against the Saints with 13 seconds to go. Perhaps he would have taken some responsibility for the completely inept first quarter debacle against a Collingwood seconds side in the last round. Or any of the myriad of times that he has gone missing when we have needed someone to stand up and inspire. 

I actually am a Nathan Jones fan but where is the personal responsibility from Nathan aside from potting his own teammate? Where is the personal responsibility from Tyson for missing so many targets? Where is the personal responsibility from Hogan that he can’t kick accurately over 35m? Where is the elite performance here that you are talking about? 

It will be interesting if the Club forces Watts out, which causes Hogan to have chats with Freo, which causes Lever to have second thoughts about coming to us. Who  takes personal responsibility for that?

Personal responsibility doesn’t mean you don’t make mistakes or have flaws, it means you take responsibilty for learning from your mistakes and working on your flaws. 

Jack’s just been delivered a very public final ultimatum, after many private suggestions and support. He’s yet to take theses on.

Edited October 8, 2017 by PaulRB

[buck_nekkid 6,046]

This thread will be glorious if he stays!