To play the king

[dino rover 634]

Is it time to play Mitch King? Yes he isnt ready but arent we diminishing other players and positions covering the ruck role?

Would it hasten or slow Kings development? 

Would it stabilise our back six if tmac just played back? Could watts offer more if not a ruck reserve? Pedersen fwd offering a relief ruck role?

Edited May 9, 2017 by dino rover
Wrong king

[JV7 2,339]

8 minutes ago, dino rover said:

Is it time to play Max King? Yes he isnt ready but arent we diminishing other players and positions covering the ruck role?

Would it hasten or slow Kings development? 

Would it stabilise our back six if tmac just played back? Could watts offer more if not a ruck reserve? Pedersen fwd offering a relief ruck role?

He went up against Preuss on the weekend & had 28 hitouts, Preuss had 71. Obviously Preuss went up against Keitly aswell but I'd say Sam Jacobs this week who is probably the #1 ruck in the comp atm isn't the right time... 

[Goffer 256]

A lamb to the slaughter, he'd be going up against Jacobs this week and the Goldstein/Preuss combo next. Being destroyed in his first couple of games would be detrimental to future development. 

[Skuit 9,355]

I was wildly against the idea last week. For this round I'm open to suggestions. We're going to lose the hit-outs and be dominated by Sauce whichever way we swing it. Would an extra tall come in handy? Can he mark a contested ball? Will King be able to make someone accountable and be accountable himself? How is his tank - can he drift forward and kick straight and follow his man into defence? We're basically screwed regardless. On the Demonland podcast, big Max said he came into the team under similar circumstances (though my memory fails). What was the result? A bold selection may lead to stirring response across the board . . .

[dazzledavey36 49,154]

Have people not learn't from the Josh Fraser situation. You simply don't throw kids in straight to the wolves.

Yes id like to have a traditional ruckman playing but its not whats costing us games right now. In fact Pedersen playing the last 2 weeks ment we have won the center clearences in both games. He is doing a mighty job and thats all we can ask. Of course we'll lose the hitouts but he's still crashing into opposition ruckman and giving a contest.

King has just played his 3rd senior in the VFL and got absolutely monsterd by Pruess. Yet on that form peple want him to come in against Jacobs!? Wow..

Let the kid continue to develop at VFL level.

[dino rover 634]

Who gets more taps king or pedo / watts?

Who does more defence offence when rucking?

[dpositive 1,557]

9 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Have people not learn't from the Josh Fraser situation. You simply don't throw kids in straight to the wolves.

Yes id like to have a traditional ruckman playing but its not whats costing us games right now. In fact Pedersen playing the last 2 weeks ment we have won the center clearences in both games. He is doing a mighty job and thats all we can ask. Of course we'll lose the hitouts but he's still crashing into opposition ruckman and giving a contest.

King has just played his 3rd senior in the VFL and got absolutely monsterd by Pruess. Yet on that form peple want him to come in against Jacobs!? Wow..

Let the kid continue to develop at VFL level.

Mainly agree with you Dazzle

But we also threw Weiderman into the wolves to understand what he requires and to improve his development. Sometimes if ok if there is enough support around him. Watts got thrown in and when he was as expected monstered by the wolves there were no senior bulky bodies around prepared to give support.

if the team is prepared and structured a specialist ruckman may provide a better option. 

If he is told this is a one of option to get that experience and is properly supported he may well develop even better when returned to VFL. He's gonna meet these guys some days and doesn't need to come away feeling mauled by the wolves but rather understanding how our pack can help defeat the other.

[buck_nekkid 5,529]

The kid has just come back from a knee reco, and is 3 weeks in.  Suggest that he will need to really build his tank before he steps up to AFL level.  Even Dec Keilty, who Played all last years in the VFL, is building his tank this year and may be valuable later in the year, or more likely after another pre-season.  Way too early for King.  Keep him working on his craft and building his fitness, and he could be really valuable.  If he didn't do his knee, this would likely be a different discussion. (And Flippers...even further back)

 

[McQueen 17,864]

1 hour ago, dino rover said:

Is it time to play Max King? Yes he isnt ready but arent we diminishing other players and positions covering the ruck role?

Would it hasten or slow Kings development? 

Would it stabilise our back six if tmac just played back? Could watts offer more if not a ruck reserve? Pedersen fwd offering a relief ruck role?

Edit OP to 'Mitch'.

[Moonshadow 16,367]

Played only a few games at VFL after coming back from a knee reco. 

No. Not anywhere near ready yet.

[John Crow Batty 8,291]

If he came in to play and his brief is only to contest with nothing to lose and no expectation he will be a match winner it will be OK IMO. It's only unreasonable expectations that will hurt him.

Edited May 8, 2017 by america de cali

[Diamond_Jim 11,969]

Playing the King sounds tempting but in reality it is not an option.

Ruck is a position for the big strong boys unless you have special athletic abilities a la Natanui. Perhaps we can take a chance in the Alice or Darwin if he has the aerobic ability assuming Spencer is not back by then.

Why did this have to happen to MFC in the very year that they banned the third man up. Can we ever take a trick !!

[TeamPlayedFine39 8,187]

I'd be strongly against this and it would be extremely detrimental to his development.  Not only would he get statistically smashed, the opposition would go out of their way to beat up on him in the clinches.  You don't put young, undersized midfielders into the center bounce; you certainly don't put a young, inexperienced, light weight ruck just coming back from his second ACL into the center square.  The only thing he'll learn is that he isn't ready.

While not overly tall, Pederson is bulky and can, at the very least, physically match up against the opposition ruckmen.  In a perfect world, King wouldn't even be first ruck at Casey, but as it is, he's having his development fast tracked there.  AFL would be a step too far.  Let King develop right where he is.

[poita 3,673]

3 hours ago, dpositive said:

But we also threw Weiderman into the wolves to understand what he requires and to improve his development. Sometimes if ok if there is enough support around him. Watts got thrown in and when he was as expected monstered by the wolves there were no senior bulky bodies around prepared to give support.

There is zero evidence that that has worked for Weideman to date. And King is coming from much further back than Weideman.

The reality is that we have erred by having two developing rucks on the list (instead of another experienced ruck) and we are going to have to suffer the consequences for a fair bit longer.

[whatwhat say what 19,503]

no chance

[Stretch Johnson 2,586]

No

[Adzman 2,085]

Smells like a Zac Dawson on Anthony Rocca type scenario.  Hawks were keen to develop Dawson, and we all know what Rocca did to him.

Dawson had an ok career, but being slaughtered early probably hurt his development.

King needs more time, Pedo will get smashed but he is a veteran who will bounce back mentally from whatever happens.

[dino rover 634]

Reading the posts re the loss to north it was observed that both watts and tom Mcdonald were negatively impacted by their ruck duties

Weideman we can expose when not ready but not King

"but being slaughtered early probably hurt his development" of Dawson (presume privy to his psych report)

King may indeed get killed like watts pedersen and tmac but if he allows the others to do their jobs then isnt that better?

I expect to get howled down and with adelaide the no ruck strategy worked but after north I question it still

[John Crow Batty 8,291]

On 09/05/2017 at 7:11 PM, Adzman said:

Smells like a Zac Dawson on Anthony Rocca type scenario.  Hawks were keen to develop Dawson, and we all know what Rocca did to him.

Dawson had an ok career, but being slaughtered early probably hurt his development.

King needs more time, Pedo will get smashed but he is a veteran who will bounce back mentally from whatever happens.

Didn't ruin Dawson's career. Been and still playing senior AFL since 2005. Been a constant criticism magnet though. The original long lived OMac.

Edited May 24, 2017 by america de cali

[daisycutter 28,668]

22 minutes ago, dino rover said:

Reading the posts re the loss to north it was observed that both watts and tom Mcdonald were negatively impacted by their ruck duties

Weideman we can expose when not ready but not King

"but being slaughtered early probably hurt his development" of Dawson (presume privy to his psych report)

King may indeed get killed like watts pedersen and tmac but if he allows the others to do their jobs then isnt that better?

I expect to get howled down and with adelaide the no ruck strategy worked but after north I question it still

i understand your point, but i doubt has the stamina yet to last out more than a qtr of afl footy. 

[dino rover 634]

7 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

i understand your point, but i doubt has the stamina yet to last out more than a qtr of afl footy. 

Good point

[beelzebub 22,271]

No

[Roger Mellie 3,577]

I'd have him in if spud Brooksby's playing. Otherwise no

[deelete my account 1,194]

Nah. Not ready yet. Pederson should take off his boot and use it to reach for the ruck tap this week. I mean, it can't be illegal if it hasn't happened yet? Right???  

Edited May 24, 2017 by DominatrixTyson

[monoccular 16,330]

2 minutes ago, DominatrixTyson said:

Nah. Not ready yet. Pederson should take off his boot and use it to reach for the ruck tap this week. I mean, it can't be illegal if it hasn't happened yet? Right???  

Maybe they could try lifting him up at boundary throw ins like the rugby union guys do?   Is there anything in the rules to say no?  I have sometimes wondered too if they did this on the goal line maybe for one of those after siren match winning goal shots could they be penalised?   May be worth trying sometime, even if just for a laugh.