The Importance of Jordan Lewis

[rpfc 28,430]

1 hour ago, TGR said:

Good points about peak pace being similar to old-man pace when the player is slow to begin with anyway.  I think MFC needed Cross at the time more than we need Lewis in 17/18/19.  Cross though never chose when to go in his superannuant years.  Cross's hands were elite, whereas I would say Jordie's kicking has been good in 17.  Cross's decision-making was elite at his time in Melbourne.  Wouldn't say the same for JL.

 

If you go through Melbourne's list, and some commentators pointed to this during our lean stretch in the past month, we are over-stocked with one-paced players that are not brilliant on the outside.  I wouldn't swap Petracca for the world, but he aint lightning.  Brayshaw's game surprised me, but he aint lightning.  Ditto Vince, Jones, Tyson, Salem, Trengove, ANB and the list goes on.  Stretch's and JKH (not super quick anway) slow progress doesn't help this situation.  The emergence of Hunt and the cheap get of Garlett has saved our hide to some degree.  

Lewis was the last player type I would have salivated over in November 2016.  His going to ground to a make one hail mary at a contest, rather than staying in the contest, will cost us in September.  Do some of us really think he is on par (capable and productive) than many of his contemporaries that have announced they are retiring now.

The AFL have purposefully taken congestion out of the game with certain rules being implemented and highlighted.  The game is getting quicker, in a different way.

 

He is slow, he goes to ground, he provides the odd Vince-ian howler of a disposal. But he is a leader, tough on the footy and uncompromising in contests.

And I disagree with your assessment of the decision to recruit a Lewis-type.

Forget the 'list' and talk about the 'team' - we have a team (and a midfield) that is very young, has no experience with being consistent, let alone big games like Sunday, let alone finals like we should be playing in September. Jones and Viney were asked to do everything when it came to that aspect and it was over and above what they could provide.

Especially, if the worst happens and they both get injured, which they ended up doing. Viney looked so laboured when I saw him up close against GWS and he is a fighter and Jones is a warrior but they need to build on what they personally bring and focus on that.

We have to think of the opportunity cost of not getting Lewis.

[Bay Riffin 1,474]

On ‎15‎/‎08‎/‎2017 at 0:14 PM, Fat Tony said:

I think Wells and Lewis will both be well and truly finished before three years. I hope I am proven wrong on Lewis, but I wouldn't call his recruitment a success unless he plays 50 AFL games for us given the money he is on.

And, Jnr, you only back the footy department when you agree with them. You have been ultra critical of the selection of Oscar McDonald. I am backing the footy department on that call.

if we make finals I would call it a resounding success, we needed leadership, in fact we were begging for it.

 

Don't forget how many games last year where we jus could not stop the onslaught. You may not realise how often he senses the other team getting a run on and starts defending against it.

We have had no idea how to do that until this year. In the first 12 games no-one really got hold of us and Lewis was a key difference (Hibberd as well).

[BenJamin on Deesy St 805]

On 15/08/2017 at 1:10 PM, Vogon Poetry said:

I don't know if you include me in the "naysaying brethren" but what always amazes me about DL is the need to see issues as black and white.  STMJ says OMac is no good and refuses to recognize his very good form this year.  WYL says Salem should be traded for his lack of discipline on Saturday and hasn't seen the incident that led to that comment. Go figure.

I've recognized that Lewis has been best 22 from day one.  I've questioned his "on field coaching" role because unless your on the ground you don't know what was said by whom.  I saw Jones indicate for Lewis to go down back when Gawn went off so let's not pretend the rest of the team is incapable of making such a move.

But lets not ignore his shortcomings when recognizing his contribution.  He can't play a defensive role down back because he's too slow, he can only play as a spare.  He has fumbled a lot and he does go to ground.  He doesn't have the speed to find time to handball well when under pressure and does turn it over.  There was a clear instance of this on Sunday. He hasn't put his body on the line in past games as he did on Sunday and as Old55 says, he might be pacing himself.  If so that's a significant limitation and admission of his declining abilities.

And I don't rate his leadership as others do when he pots someone behind play and gets a three week suspension, you don't see Viney or Jones doing that. That suspension cost us one and arguably two games.  We could be competing for a top 4 spot if he (and Vince) hadn't shown a complete lack of leadership.

I think he'll struggle to play next year because the game is not going to get any slower.  There will be improvement from players like Stretch, Smith and Maynard who have not played regularly this year and Salem, Hogan, AVB and Watts are still to return.  Then of course you have the trading and draft period where we will try to improve our list as well.  The reality is Lewis will get worse while others will get better and at some point he isn't best 22.  I think that is likely to be early next year, others don't.  Why posters seem to think it's a competition to get it right I don't know.  As TGR says, time will tell.  And who gives a flying F if they're wrong anyway, there wouldn't be a person on this forum who hasn't "got it wrong".  It's a discussion point for heavens sake.

Seems to me, VP, that you might be wrestling with some inner demons of your own (pardon the pun) on this non-issue, what with your personal dislike of Lewis set against the body of work that he has produced so far this season.

Forgive the paraphrasing, but I gather that the main thrust of your posts is this: Lewis is overrated both as a player and a leader, his sharp decline is fast-approaching (or, at least, faster than most of us think) and, therefore, we shouldn't have recruited him.

 

Is that about it?

 

If so, that sounds pretty black and white to me, with a bit of crystal ball gazing thrown in. But who gives a flying proverbial, right?! Time will tell, right and wrong, no place to hide, heavens above and all that jazz.

 

Here's a discussion point for you: with most of the home-and-away season now done - already Melbourne's best in 11 years - I'm interested to know what more Lewis has to do to persuade you (and your brethren!) that he has been, at the least, a decent pick-up by the club.

 

And here's another one - and I'm going out on a cyberspace limb here and peering into my own crystal ball, but what the hell: even if Lewis were not to play one more senior game for the next two years, would you consider his recruitment a success?

 

I would. Why? Because, to me, for that scenario to eventuate (unlikely as it is and barring injury, of course), a young up-and-coming Dees bull and leader, who would have benefited from the winning and ruthlessly professional attitude and ethos that Lewis brings to the club, would have to have prised - with every ounce of G&D and sheer bloody-mindedness - the old door off its proud and rusted-on hinges, to get to the point of demanding selection over such a player.

 

And, as it turns out, I for one look forward to that day, the sooner the better.

[old55 23,573]

Last weekend and the next batch of games is why Lewis was recruited and how I'll judge him - the rest is garnish.

[Wrecker45 3,378]

The game against St Kilda was season defining. We got a last 1/4 from Lewis that set a win at all costs mentality and a team that followed him.

i have seen wosre thread's than this locked or removed by mods on demonland.

He is a winner and he is ours.

 

Edited August 16, 2017 by Wrecker45
Spelling

[PaulRB 6,363]

Not sure what those questioning Lewis's year and recruitment are thinking! 

We would not be looking at playing our first finals series in over a decade if we hadn't recruited Lewis.

Try this mental exercise... take Lewis out of every game he's played and replace him with one of the extended bench players... and contemplate the result. 

Then consider we're about to play our first final in a decade and have a smattering of players with minimal finals experience (Jones, Vince, Melksham, Hibbard) and one, in Lewis, with more finals and Grand final experience than the rest of the team combined...

... and some nufties on here are questioning his value. Fork me!

 

 

[old55 23,573]

It's a big leap to see how punching an opponent behind play and getting suspended for three weeks in which we lost winnable games is a positive - we'd be locked in the 8 and talking about top 4.  The points that VP and TGR have made about Lewis' lack of pace, lack of commitment to the contest, turnovers and propensity to fall over are all valid.  I'm not sure how this is hard to understand.

But recently he has stood up strongly when the heat is really on and walked his talk.  It's quite likely he has a limited number of shots in the chamber and has to use them wisely.  How he delivers over the next few weeks will be key.

[Vogon Poetry 2,095]

1 hour ago, Ben E said:

Seems to me, VP, that you might be wrestling with some inner demons of your own (pardon the pun) on this non-issue, what with your personal dislike of Lewis set against the body of work that he has produced so far this season.

Forgive the paraphrasing, but I gather that the main thrust of your posts is this: Lewis is overrated both as a player and a leader, his sharp decline is fast-approaching (or, at least, faster than most of us think) and, therefore, we shouldn't have recruited him.

 

Is that about it?

 

If so, that sounds pretty black and white to me, with a bit of crystal ball gazing thrown in. But who gives a flying proverbial, right?! Time will tell, right and wrong, no place to hide, heavens above and all that jazz.

 

Here's a discussion point for you: with most of the home-and-away season now done - already Melbourne's best in 11 years - I'm interested to know what more Lewis has to do to persuade you (and your brethren!) that he has been, at the least, a decent pick-up by the club.

 

And here's another one - and I'm going out on a cyberspace limb here and peering into my own crystal ball, but what the hell: even if Lewis were not to play one more senior game for the next two years, would you consider his recruitment a success?

 

I would. Why? Because, to me, for that scenario to eventuate (unlikely as it is and barring injury, of course), a young up-and-coming Dees bull and leader, who would have benefited from the winning and ruthlessly professional attitude and ethos that Lewis brings to the club, would have to have prised - with every ounce of G&D and sheer bloody-mindedness - the old door off its proud and rusted-on hinges, to get to the point of demanding selection over such a player.

 

And, as it turns out, I for one look forward to that day, the sooner the better.

I'm  not wrestling with inner demons at all.  My response has been mainly to counterbalance the blind adoration that Lewis was receiving in his first clutch of games.  I didn't agree with that adoration and expressed a contrary view.

Your paraphrasing is correct bar the conclusion.  I've never said we shouldn't have recruited him.  Further I've never said he wasn't a decent pick up by the club. 

In private discussions with Old55 and a few others I expressed my disappointment with Lewis from the preseason on mainly because he wasn't meeting my expectations. I got no support.  I wanted a hard nosed contested ball inside mid with elite disposal skills and clean hands.  I also expected courage. That's what he was at Hawthorn.  But I felt in the preseason games and early on he was going through the motions.  He's an elite player - or was - but the attributes he showed at Hawthorn he didn't show for us.  He was shown up by players like Viney, Hunt, Hibberd, Jones and others for hardness at the ball, he had many possessions on the outside because we used him for his ball use and I can't remember him turning a game when others did.  I reckon he was largely going through the motions for much of the season.  He was lauded on here for his on field coaching and leadership which happen to be characteristics that can't be judged properly from the outside.  And his suspension and his unapologetic manner immediately afterwards was the opposite of leadership.

And to complete your questions I'd find it hard to consider his recruitment a success if he only played one of three paid years.  He's been good for us this year and I've acknowledged that but he's not been great.   I'd consider one in three paid years a poor return.  But of course you are of the view as are many others that his mere presence has had a huge benefit on our playing group that will benefit us in years to come.  I won't give him that credit because firstly it's supposition and secondly the behaviours I've seen don't support it.  For me his form and hardness in the last few games when we've got to the pointy end of the season just support my view that he was coasting early.  I don't want that example given to our players.

You many not have noticed but I don't usually join in with "general discussion" unless my view differs because I'm not interested in stating what has been said before and is the common view.  But on Lewis I differed so I expressed a view. 

[deelete my account 1,194]

30 minutes ago, Vogon Poetry said:

In private discussions with Old55 and a few others I expressed my disappointment with Lewis from the preseason on mainly because he wasn't meeting my expectations. I got no support.  I wanted a hard nosed contested ball inside mid with elite disposal skills and clean hands.  I also expected courage. That's what he was at Hawthorn.  But I felt in the preseason games and early on he was going through the motions.  He's an elite player - or was - but the attributes he showed at Hawthorn he didn't show for us.  He was shown up by players like Viney, Hunt, Hibberd, Jones and others for hardness at the ball, he had many possessions on the outside because we used him for his ball use and I can't remember him turning a game when others did.  I reckon he was largely going through the motions for much of the season.  He was lauded on here for his on field coaching and leadership which happen to be characteristics that can't be judged properly from the outside.  And his suspension and his unapologetic manner immediately afterwards was the opposite of leadership. 

Lewis has had to adapt his game due to the new third man up rule too that prevents him being as bullish in a pack as he once could have been. Just another factor for why he isnt replicating his year prior in form. 

[Fat Tony 5,231]

52 minutes ago, Vogon Poetry said:

I'd find it hard to consider his recruitment a success if he only played one of three paid years.  He's been good for us this year and I've acknowledged that but he's not been great.   I'd consider one in three paid years a poor return.

This is the crux of it for me. Lewis has had a good solid year and he has earned his salary in 2017. But the signs are there that he is struggling badly with the ground ball and that his reflexes are getting slower. While he has never been quick, the game is also speeding up every year. His return to form over the last two weeks is encouraging, but let's see how he goes next year and the year after before we call it a success. I am not saying Lewis's recruitment is a failure, but I am of the view that he needs to play 50 games at current output to justify the circa $1.5 million in salary cap space that he is owed.

[Lucifers Hero 39,808]

15 minutes ago, Fat Tony said:

This is the crux of it for me. Lewis has had a good solid year and he has earned his salary in 2017. But the signs are there that he is struggling badly with the ground ball and that his reflexes are getting slower. While he has never been quick, the game is also speeding up every year. His return to form over the last two weeks is encouraging, but let's see how he goes next year and the year after before we call it a success. I am not saying Lewis's recruitment is a failure, but I am of the view that he needs to play 50 games at current output to justify the circa $1.5 million in salary cap space that he is owed.

Do you have a source on the $1.5m, FT?

Lewis was initially offered a two year deal which became a three year deal with the 3rd year (2019) based on certain triggers.  So 2019 is not guaranteed. 

And there are ways of extending a players longevity eg not taking the long haul flights to WA, NT etc.  Let the young guys do that.

And, not many players play at their peak in every game.  They all wax and wane during a season.  We don't need him to play every game in a season.  TBH, I would rather Lewis be fit and fresh for crunch games and finals.  

[John Crow Batty 8,863]

Not the player he was at his peak and never will we see that here but he has been a huge positive for us this season I believe. I rate him a 7/10. We just look more 'experienced' and mostly solid with him in the side. A perception I found lacking for the past 7 or 8 years. 

[BenJamin on Deesy St 805]

2 hours ago, Vogon Poetry said:

I'm  not wrestling with inner demons at all.  My response has been mainly to counterbalance the blind adoration that Lewis was receiving in his first clutch of games.  I didn't agree with that adoration and expressed a contrary view.

Your paraphrasing is correct bar the conclusion.  I've never said we shouldn't have recruited him.  Further I've never said he wasn't a decent pick up by the club. 

In private discussions with Old55 and a few others I expressed my disappointment with Lewis from the preseason on mainly because he wasn't meeting my expectations. I got no support.  I wanted a hard nosed contested ball inside mid with elite disposal skills and clean hands.  I also expected courage. That's what he was at Hawthorn.  But I felt in the preseason games and early on he was going through the motions.  He's an elite player - or was - but the attributes he showed at Hawthorn he didn't show for us.  He was shown up by players like Viney, Hunt, Hibberd, Jones and others for hardness at the ball, he had many possessions on the outside because we used him for his ball use and I can't remember him turning a game when others did.  I reckon he was largely going through the motions for much of the season.  He was lauded on here for his on field coaching and leadership which happen to be characteristics that can't be judged properly from the outside.  And his suspension and his unapologetic manner immediately afterwards was the opposite of leadership.

And to complete your questions I'd find it hard to consider his recruitment a success if he only played one of three paid years.  He's been good for us this year and I've acknowledged that but he's not been great.   I'd consider one in three paid years a poor return.  But of course you are of the view as are many others that his mere presence has had a huge benefit on our playing group that will benefit us in years to come.  I won't give him that credit because firstly it's supposition and secondly the behaviours I've seen don't support it.  For me his form and hardness in the last few games when we've got to the pointy end of the season just support my view that he was coasting early.  I don't want that example given to our players.

You many not have noticed but I don't usually join in with "general discussion" unless my view differs because I'm not interested in stating what has been said before and is the common view.  But on Lewis I differed so I expressed a view. 

A considered response, VP, I'll give you that, but one with which I disagree.

No blind adulation here. MFC knew what they were getting. My expectations weren't as high as yours. We can pick and choose the good and the bad until the cows come home.

I happen to think the good far outweighs the bad, that he makes us a better team, and that his impact and influence at critical times in multiple games - not just recently - have been evident throughout the season.

I also admire how he has been one of our best performers during a period when many of his teammates were flat. That's what I look for in a player more than anything - who steps up when the chips are down. Who still believes we can win, no matter the situation.

As for your dismissing Lewis' leadership and off-field value as a supposition, well, I suggest you go to training and ask his teammates and his coaches or, better still, we all go to the B&F function and see and hear for ourselves!

[Vogon Poetry 2,095]

11 minutes ago, Ben E said:

As for your dismissing Lewis' leadership and off-field value as a supposition, well, I suggest you go to training and ask his teammates and his coaches or, better still, we all go to the B&F function and see and hear for ourselves!

I don't dismiss his leadership, I just don't think it's as profound as many make out. Leadership is not hitting a bloke behind play and missing 3 very valuable weeks.  That's just dumb.

I think Lewis provides experience more than leadership as he provides a cool head tight situations but that is a far cry from leadership although easily confused.

I'd follow Jones and Viney into battle but I'd be worried Lewis would pick and choose when he went.

 

 

[Fat Tony 5,231]

1 hour ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Do you have a source on the $1.5m, FT?

Lewis was initially offered a two year deal which became a three year deal with the 3rd year (2019) based on certain triggers.  So 2019 is not guaranteed. 

And there are ways of extending a players longevity eg not taking the long haul flights to WA, NT etc.  Let the young guys do that.

And, not many players play at their peak in every game.  They all wax and wane during a season.  We don't need him to play every game in a season.  TBH, I would rather Lewis be fit and fresh for crunch games and finals.  

The figure was an estimate, but it could easily be more if the contract had an inbuilt CBA uplift. 

Everything I have read suggests it's a 3 year deal. 

[pinkshark 950]

wow!  some people on here are questioning lewis's value to the team.    On the verge of finals for first time in years.  Jordan Lewis at the club.  I'm very happy.  In fact I am as ecstatic about having him now as I was when we signed him.  

[jnrmac 20,065]

Lewis is the biggest name to come to Melbourne in decades. The fact he chose Melbourne is nigh on unbelievable. 

Every year on this forum posters go bananas about a Dangerfield some other gun player that we might get. It never happens!

Now though it might be different. In addition to his on and off field leadership Lewis might also mean other out of contract guns like Lever or better seriously consider Melbourne as a destination. 

That is a major turnaround from where we have come from.

He is worth every cent we pay him. The team has been walking taller since he arrived and all the players have been quizing him about Hawthorn, playing in finals, preparation etc. He has done it all and its fantastic he has brought ot to Melbourne

As for finals experience we have had Jones 11 years ago and Vince. Thats it. His worth will shoot up dramaticzally come September

 

Edited August 16, 2017 by jnrmac

[BenJamin on Deesy St 805]

3 hours ago, Vogon Poetry said:

I don't dismiss his leadership, I just don't think it's as profound as many make out. Leadership is not hitting a bloke behind play and missing 3 very valuable weeks.  That's just dumb.

I think Lewis provides experience more than leadership as he provides a cool head tight situations but that is a far cry from leadership although easily confused.

I'd follow Jones and Viney into battle but I'd be worried Lewis would pick and choose when he went.

We're going around in circles and semantics here. Leadership, experience, easily confused?! The bloke was next in line to be captain at HFC, and was admitted into the 6-man leadership group at MFC during his first pre-season at the club.

Anyway, at least we agree that MFC should have recruited him, that he was a decent pick-up and has had a good season. 

I'll leave my final words on this topic, which has been done to death, to Josh Mahoney. This is why we recruited Lewis, and his words have stood the test of time and will continue to do so, long after our own petty squabbles are etched in the ether:

 

General Manager of Football Josh Mahoney said Lewis brings leadership qualities and an elite AFL mindset to the Club.

“Jordan is a fierce competitor who is driven to win, and those are qualities that you can’t have enough of at our footy Club,” he said.  

“Clearly he is an elite AFL player and his footballing resume speaks for itself, but we also see Jordan as a leader who can play a major role in the development and mentoring of our younger players both on and off the field.

“We know we are still a very young team. We are projecting to have half of our best 22 under the age of 23 next season and that’s why bringing in a player of Jordan’s experience and calibre was important to us.

“He understands where we are at as a Club. He knows we have a considerable amount of work to do before becoming a consistent finals team, but the example he will set for our younger players will be invaluable for us.”

[Ron Burgundy 8,584]

17 hours ago, martin said:

The yawn increases.

If the footy department could even be bothered to read this stuff, they'd laugh and shrug their shoulders. It just doesn't reflect reality.

He's an on field coach and leader out there. Such a viewpoint is simply ludicrous in the context of where this team's at and what it needs, especially in close games and, fingers crossed, finals.

Everyone knows this, surely.

 

[BAMF 4,353]

11 hours ago, jnrmac said:

 

As for finals experience we have had Jones 11 years ago and Vince. Thats it. His worth will shoot up dramaticzally come September

 

Jones, Vince, Lewis, Garlett, Melkshem and Hibberd have all played in at least 1 final.

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,755]

15 hours ago, Fat Tony said:

This is the crux of it for me. Lewis has had a good solid year and he has earned his salary in 2017. But the signs are there that he is struggling badly with the ground ball and that his reflexes are getting slower. While he has never been quick, the game is also speeding up every year. His return to form over the last two weeks is encouraging, but let's see how he goes next year and the year after before we call it a success. I am not saying Lewis's recruitment is a failure, but I am of the view that he needs to play 50 games at current output to justify the circa $1.5 million in salary cap space that he is owed.

Is it? It seems to me the AFL continues to be concerned about the opposite. Isn't that why we have incessant rule changes? I'm sure I've heard the AFL arguing that the rule changes are essential to "keep the game moving". Presumably that means the AFL thinks the game is being slowed down by flooding which leads to those ugly rolling mauls. 

I suspect the only people who keep complaining that the game is "speeding up every year" are older players who are slowing down. 

[Sir Why You Little 37,038]

10 hours ago, Ben E said:

We're going around in circles and semantics here. Leadership, experience, easily confused?! The bloke was next in line to be captain at HFC, and was admitted into the 6-man leadership group at MFC during his first pre-season at the club.

Anyway, at least we agree that MFC should have recruited him, that he was a decent pick-up and has had a good season. 

I'll leave my final words on this topic, which has been done to death, to Josh Mahoney. This is why we recruited Lewis, and his words have stood the test of time and will continue to do so, long after our own petty squabbles are etched in the ether:

 

General Manager of Football Josh Mahoney said Lewis brings leadership qualities and an elite AFL mindset to the Club.

“Jordan is a fierce competitor who is driven to win, and those are qualities that you can’t have enough of at our footy Club,” he said.  

“Clearly he is an elite AFL player and his footballing resume speaks for itself, but we also see Jordan as a leader who can play a major role in the development and mentoring of our younger players both on and off the field.

“We know we are still a very young team. We are projecting to have half of our best 22 under the age of 23 next season and that’s why bringing in a player of Jordan’s experience and calibre was important to us.

“He understands where we are at as a Club. He knows we have a considerable amount of work to do before becoming a consistent finals team, but the example he will set for our younger players will be invaluable for us.”

Mr. Poetry and TGR are just plain wrong on this topic, but they will keep going until Jordan Lewis plays his last game in 1-2 years and then say "See i told you so"

if we make finals this year and WIN a final with Jordan playing in it then his recruitment has been well worthwhile even if he retires at seasons end. 

I expect he will play again in 2018, never expected him to play 2019

[Vogon Poetry 2,095]

11 hours ago, Ben E said:

We're going around in circles and semantics here. Leadership, experience, easily confused?! The bloke was next in line to be captain at HFC, and was admitted into the 6-man leadership group at MFC during his first pre-season at the club.

Anyway, at least we agree that MFC should have recruited him, that he was a decent pick-up and has had a good season. 

I'll leave my final words on this topic, which has been done to death, to Josh Mahoney. This is why we recruited Lewis, and his words have stood the test of time and will continue to do so, long after our own petty squabbles are etched in the ether:

 

General Manager of Football Josh Mahoney said Lewis brings leadership qualities and an elite AFL mindset to the Club.

“Jordan is a fierce competitor who is driven to win, and those are qualities that you can’t have enough of at our footy Club,” he said.  

“Clearly he is an elite AFL player and his footballing resume speaks for itself, but we also see Jordan as a leader who can play a major role in the development and mentoring of our younger players both on and off the field.

“We know we are still a very young team. We are projecting to have half of our best 22 under the age of 23 next season and that’s why bringing in a player of Jordan’s experience and calibre was important to us.

“He understands where we are at as a Club. He knows we have a considerable amount of work to do before becoming a consistent finals team, but the example he will set for our younger players will be invaluable for us.”

Ben E I understand mine is not a popular view, it wasn't popular when I negatively critiqued Lumumba either. I got that one right, along with Neeld, Schwab and McLardy well ahead of time.  I've got them wrong too like all of us.

I think the comments you've quoted were made about Lewis by Mahoney when we recruited him, before he'd done one training session.  Of course they are positive and I had exactly the same view.  I wonder what Mahoney thinks now and whether he shares any of the concerns I have.  He'll never tell you, as he shouldn't.

And for a bloke that was "next in line to be captain of the Hawks" Clarkson, arguably the best coach this century, didn't want him and let him go for a peppercorn.  What does that say ? Remember, Lewis was contracted and Hawks could simply have said "No".  They didn't.  Perhaps they knew something.

 

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,755]

10 minutes ago, Vogon Poetry said:

Ben E I understand mine is not a popular view, it wasn't popular when I negatively critiqued Lumumba either. I got that one right, along with Neeld, Schwab and McLardy well ahead of time.  I've got them wrong too like all of us.

I think the comments you've quoted were made about Lewis by Mahoney when we recruited him, before he'd done one training session.  Of course they are positive and I had exactly the same view.  I wonder what Mahoney thinks now and whether he shares any of the concerns I have.  He'll never tell you, as he shouldn't.

And for a bloke that was "next in line to be captain of the Hawks" Clarkson, arguably the best coach this century, didn't want him and let him go for a peppercorn.  What does that say ? Remember, Lewis was contracted and Hawks could simply have said "No".  They didn't.  Perhaps they knew something.

 

Who knows? You've made one assumption. But there could be a myriad of other reasons (for which I have no supporting evidence) including:

• relieving salary cap pressure
• personality clashes
• preference for one other player out of a list of about 45 to be captain 
• need to regenerate a list in an ordered fashion which means "removing" older players a couple at a time
• offering a player of Lewis' calibre at a "peppercorn" as a courtesy to the player as gratitude for contributing to 4 premierships
• if Lewis had stayed Hawthorn may have lost someone else of greater importance to their long-term plans...

[jnrmac 20,065]

The Hawks didn't want to get rid of Lewis but Clarkson stuffed up and the cat was out of the bag so it was too late to stop. They eventually realised they had to move on Hodge, Gibson, Mitchell, Lewis and possibly Burgoyne in order to avoid the Brisbane crash after their 3 flags.

It was the right strategy just poorly done.

We won out of this. In every way possible.