POST MATCH DISCUSSION - Round 4

[dees189227 12,396]

Just watched the last 2 minutes. I can see why Bernie just bombed it in like that. I guess he was hoping somoene would mark it or crumb it. But also the Viney handball from the centre bounce when he was on his back he hand balled it freo's way which in the end cretaed the goal. 

also when Harmes ran in if he looked over to his right he had Salem I think it was out on his own who he could have passed to. We need to practice scenarios on what to do in close games when we have the lead. 

[Wunders 397]

Really disappointed because I have expectations that when we play a team that is bottom 6 we should win well. It's my own expectations that then hurt the most. Upon reflexion we are young and there is still so much promise. Looking forward to next week.

The thing I hated most about today was the amount of times we had a first option to kick it long into our forward line and instead handballed backwards. It seemed that apart from vince's torp in the last quarter we either scored or created a ball up when we kicked long first option. That's what frustrated me, the fact that we didn't give our forwards a chance to win (and I think our forwards were much better than freo's defenders - even without hogan)! 

Bring on Richmond! 

[Redleg 41,409]

To be honest and without getting hysterical, I think we need to decide if we want to blood players or win games.

Clearly ATM we can't do both.

[Demonsone 2,043]

I feel for Goodwin as he should be 4-0 ..  Team has kicked itself out of 2 games & fallen asleep in 2 qtrs! Poor decision making & turnovers ... hope players are feeling the hurt & start rewarding with wins

[Adam The God 30,403]

3 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Rawlings and Goodwin?

who trains set ups. They should be 2nd nature by round 4

Pretty sure it's Ben Matthews. There were certainly some teething problems without Gawn. Knowing your ruckman will win most contests, allows you to be a lot more attacking from stoppages. I don't think we've quite addressed what happens when we don't have a dominant ruckman.

3 hours ago, Mega Malt said:

I will tell you what I think if Paul Roos was coaching we would of easily won.

Lol, it was only a matter of time before some flogga put this one out there.

Really? Based on what?

[Scoop Junior 3,513]

9 minutes ago, demon9 said:

Just watched the last 2 mins again of the last qtr. Noticed these mistakes. Feel free to add:

1. Vince's dinky kick which missed the target.

2. Weideman's fresh air kick on the wing

3. Frost's punch although had good intentions

4. McDonald's terrible high kick at CHB (after the deliberate call) to harmes (had Watts in the corridor albeit one on one)

5. Bernie's stupid torp which looked like something you'd see in the amateur's

6. Harmes hail Mary kick on goal with players free to his right. 

I know I'm probably missing some...

 

 

There were clearly a lot of mistakes at the end and that's what angered me the most.

Despite playing fairly poorly for most of the day, having two pivotal players out in Gawn and Hogan and conceding 7 goals without reply in the third quarter, the fact is we hit the front with three minutes to go in the game.

And we still couldn't close it out. They talk about learning and development but what have we learnt in terms of holding onto leads? Two years ago we couldn't even hold onto a lead with 40 seconds left against St Kilda. Montagna walked into an unguarded goal and kicked the winner. Of all the types of goals that can be kicked, the one that just should not happen in those circumstances is an open goal from the goal square. We failed to put numbers back and threw the game away.

They said we'd learn from that and not make those mistakes again. Yet how did Freo score their last goal? McCarthy runs onto the ball at the back of the pack and into an open goal square. How can you leave the defensive side of a defensive 50 contest open when you are a few points up with under 2 minutes to play. It's just inexcusable at Under 12s level let alone AFL.

I'm not saying we should have sent 5 men back, but surely you stick two players back, with one sweeping up defensive side of the contest. In these situations you simply have to force the opposition to do something special to win the game - take a pack mark, kick a 55m goal, etc. If Sandilands marks over four players and kicks the match winner, well you just have to cop it. But letting them run onto a loose ball and into an open goal is unfathomable.

So it seems we learned nothing from the St Kilda game. Did anyone in the backline call players back after we hit the front? Did Jones or Viney yell at a few forwards to go down into defence? Do we even have plans to deal with these situations or do we just play aggressively all the time?

We have been hard and tough this year and have shown great effort, but we are a long way away in terms of footy smarts and composure. 

[Demonsone 2,043]

9 minutes ago, Redleg said:

To be honest and without getting hysterical, I think we need to decide if we want to blood players or win games.

Clearly ATM we can't do both.

Side is its own worst enemy...  from bad turnovers & missed goals by experience & young players ...  what caused the fade out of the 3rd qtr.? Yet we focus on the last qtr... game was lost in the 3rd ...  

[Adam The God 30,403]

3 hours ago, shorty said:

Well I'm [censored] because we should be 4 zip. Take everything out of the game that you can but for TWO weeks in a row we have been beaten by the opposition teams A graders it's as simple as that. We have no A graders in the mid field and really apart from Gawn no others at this point, and until we find a fyfe, danger, neill, Shiel, Martin etc we are going to hover where we are.  Real Champions always find a way to win.

Clayton Oliver.

2 hours ago, jumbo returns said:

Does Petracca need a spell at Casey?

No...

[Dante 2,739]

Roos was at the game today sitting just in front and to the left of where I sit, he had a hoodie on appeared to just wanted to be a spectator.

Didnt see him at the end, so I'm not sure when he left, but it was good to see he still has an interest. 

[jumbo returns 6,741]

Fkn annoying loss

[What 18,810]

Bottom line is we are still a very young team. Thats just a fact. We were always going to have days like this.

Yeah it sucks, but on the flipside we will steal some wins we weren't expecting.

I aint slitting my wrists over a 2 point loss. We all knew during the week this was a danger game after Freo rolled the Doggies. Ross Lyon is a master coach. Sandilands, Fyfe and Neale are as good a centre circle trio as any.

Onwards and upwards, and bring on Ninthmond.

[Brownie 5,986]

6 hours ago, Delusional demon 82 said:

Now cue the awful feeling when you have to replay in your head how that last 2 1/2 mins could have gone better for the next 4 hours but then keep reminding yourself there's nothing you can do about it .... thanks Melbourne ? My long weekend looking great now 

soon as we started playing it safe at 2.30 I knew we were gone. Weids out Pedo in. Brayshaw back in for someone else. Garlett was brilliant

[Goffer 256]

3 hours ago, Nasher said:

How old are you? If you're any older than the age of 6, now seems an odd time to be fed up. 

Smart Alec are we? I'm fed up because we have the talent on the list to win games like this, and indeed the 2nd quarter we played like it was a training drill and Freo were witches hats. To capitulate like that in the third and then play catch up, yes I think I'm entitled to be fed up at an insipid effort. We all knew Neelds list was garbage, when we got flogged it was to be expected. Today we were a better side than the Dockers they just took their chances and played more consistently, when we played well today we were far the better team. That's why I'm frustrated 

[Adam The God 30,403]

1 hour ago, dees189227 said:

Hope people said to him we could have used you these past 2 weeks. Would want to have a good one next week. 

Oh and another thing when we did hit the front why didn't we just kick it down the line to at least get the ball out, instead of the ridiculous chip kicks in our back line. 

Because Sandliands would probably have marked or they would have roved off Sandilands. 

What we did need to do was take the game on and get ourselves another goal, given there were still 3 minutes left. But we didn't take the game on enough today and this was another of those patches that cost us.

1 hour ago, jumbo returns said:

Stop getting emotional

Is he playing well enough, based on his obvious talent and ability?

Mate, what are you on about? Petracca is essentially a second year player, who is averaging more disposals than Judd at the same time and many other stars of the comp. The guy will be a star in time. As soon as next year even. His ability to impact in the midfield, take contested marks (often on bigger opponents) and bob up with x-factor goals shows his clear ability and is already one of our top 10 most important players IMO.

[old dee 23,870]

33 minutes ago, Redleg said:

To be honest and without getting hysterical, I think we need to decide if we want to blood players or win games.

Clearly ATM we can't do both.

Amen to that Mr. leg

[dazzledavey36 55,315]

7 minutes ago, Goffer said:

Smart Alec are we? I'm fed up because we have the talent on the list to win games like this, and indeed the 2nd quarter we played like it was a training drill and Freo were witches hats. To capitulate like that in the third and then play catch up, yes I think I'm entitled to be fed up at an insipid effort. We all knew Neelds list was garbage, when we got flogged it was to be expected. Today we were a better side than the Dockers they just took their chances and played more consistently, when we played well today we were far the better team. That's why I'm frustrated 

Are we a better side though? Sandilands Fyfe, Neale, Mundy, Hill Brothers arr a pretty good core of players to start of with.

[jumbo returns 6,741]

7 minutes ago, A F said:

Because Sandliands would probably have marked or they would have roved off Sandilands. 

What we did need to do was take the game on and get ourselves another goal, given there were still 3 minutes left. But we didn't take the game on enough today and this was another of those patches that cost us.

Mate, what are you on about? Petracca is essentially a second year player, who is averaging more disposals than Judd at the same time and many other stars of the comp. The guy will be a star in time. As soon as next year even. His ability to impact in the midfield, take contested marks (often on bigger opponents) and bob up with x-factor goals shows his clear ability and is already one of our top 10 most important players IMO.

Dunno, AF....I just want more...the kid's soooo good!

[Adam The God 30,403]

50 minutes ago, dees189227 said:

also when Harmes ran in if he looked over to his right he had Salem I think it was out on his own who he could have passed to. We need to practice scenarios on what to do in close games when we have the lead. 

We've done this all summer. Lewis said as much after the Carlton win. We just don't have the composure or skill to get it done yet.

Basically, we don't have enough guys who know how or what it's like to win. I think it'll click at some stage this year and we'll get some momentum up, but until then, we can do all the practicing we want, but we won't execute on game day.

[Goffer 256]

2 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Are we a better side though? Sandilands Fyfe, Neale, Mundy, Hill Brothers arr a pretty good core of players to start of with.

On paper I would say yes. Their main KPF are Kersten and that f*#%ing f*^#head McCarthy, I don't rate their defence much either and I think our midfield is more explosive than theirs.

[chook fowler 19,519]

Filthy still with Lewis and Hogan. Those idiots have probably cost us finals. The selectors also needed their ears boxed.

[Bring-Back-Powell 14,935]

Disappointing loss.

However Freo may actually end up being a 5th-8th side this year so at the end of the year this result may look as bad as it seems.

[Adam The God 30,403]

41 minutes ago, Scoop Junior said:

There were clearly a lot of mistakes at the end and that's what angered me the most.

Despite playing fairly poorly for most of the day, having two pivotal players out in Gawn and Hogan and conceding 7 goals without reply in the third quarter, the fact is we hit the front with three minutes to go in the game.

And we still couldn't close it out. They talk about learning and development but what have we learnt in terms of holding onto leads? Two years ago we couldn't even hold onto a lead with 40 seconds left against St Kilda. Montagna walked into an unguarded goal and kicked the winner. Of all the types of goals that can be kicked, the one that just should not happen in those circumstances is an open goal from the goal square. We failed to put numbers back and threw the game away.

They said we'd learn from that and not make those mistakes again. Yet how did Freo score their last goal? McCarthy runs onto the ball at the back of the pack and into an open goal square. How can you leave the defensive side of a defensive 50 contest open when you are a few points up with under 2 minutes to play. It's just inexcusable at Under 12s level let alone AFL.

I'm not saying we should have sent 5 men back, but surely you stick two players back, with one sweeping up defensive side of the contest. In these situations you simply have to force the opposition to do something special to win the game - take a pack mark, kick a 55m goal, etc. If Sandilands marks over four players and kicks the match winner, well you just have to cop it. But letting them run onto a loose ball and into an open goal is unfathomable.

So it seems we learned nothing from the St Kilda game. Did anyone in the backline call players back after we hit the front? Did Jones or Viney yell at a few forwards to go down into defence? Do we even have plans to deal with these situations or do we just play aggressively all the time?

We have been hard and tough this year and have shown great effort, but we are a long way away in terms of footy smarts and composure.

This is it. Great post, but this is it. The biggest unknown for us right now is knowing whether we've got the guys that will develop composure with experience or whether they simply never will. There are certain guys that I don't think will and they're on the fringe for a reason. Unfortunately, due to injuries and/or suspensions, they're being given games right now. Harmes and ANB the biggest offenders. Both panic in tight and under pressure. But it's guys like Vince (a 195 game veteran), who I expect composure from. Instead, what did we get?

[bing181 9,328]

1 hour ago, Skuit said:

Jones has been playing exceptionally well up until today, Tyson missed a chunk of preseason injured and has been historically slow to get rolling, and Vince's form has been mostly down for a fair while now. 'And no players going better' is simply incorrect.

Yes, of course it is.

ANB, Stretch, Salem, Hunt and most of the young'uns have all gone up a notch this year, and have played their best games for the club. Same for Spencer. Jones has been great until today (injured? heavily tagged?). Vince had 30 disposals in Round 1, missed a round, was injured in Round 3 and played injured today apparently, though 25 disposals isn't too shoddy. As for Tyson, he had 28 disposals and 9 marks and yeah, shanked a few. 6 Clangers. The same number as Fyfe.

A metre here or there on just one of those shots at goal or ball bounces and we wouldn't even be having these discussions.

[bing181 9,328]

26 minutes ago, A F said:

Basically, we don't have enough guys who know how or what it's like to win. I think it'll click at some stage this year and we'll get some momentum up, but until then, we can do all the practicing we want, but we won't execute on game day.

It's called inexperience. Everyone can cite the "a young side" statistic, but when we play like "a young side", DL goes into meltdown.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,271]

For those having a go at Harmes for the last shot I just had a look again and there wasn't really anything else on. Jetta was out laterally to his right and was still outside 50 so not really an option. Considering there was only 30 seconds left he had to have a crack.