Age and Experience Ladders

[Demonland 72,178]

Are we the Baby Demons? 

Young Dees face their biggest test

ROUND 2 AGE LADDER

Club	Age
Hawthorn	27.04
West Coast	26.75
Fremantle	26.46
Geelong Cats	26.20
Essendon	25.77
Western Bulldogs	25.61
North Melbourne	25.44
GWS Giants	25.36
Adelaide Crows	25.29
Carlton	24.97
Port Adelaide	24.95
Sydney Swans	24.89
Richmond	24.76
St Kilda	24.73
Collingwood	24.69
Brisbane Lions	24.45
Gold Coast Suns	23.70
Melbourne	23.56

ROUND 2 EXPERIENCE LADDER

Club	Games
Hawthorn	136.2
West Coast	121.9
Fremantle	111.3
Geelong Cats	100.6
Essendon	100.1
GWS Giants	98.5
Western Bulldogs	97.3
Adelaide Crows	90.9
North Melbourne	89.8
Richmond	89.0
Port Adelaide	88.0
Sydney Swans	88.0
Carlton	84.9
Collingwood	84.0
St Kilda	82.8
Brisbane Lions	74.2
Melbourne	70.2
Gold Coast Suns	66.5

[brendan 3,437]

Wow hawks and freo are in for some pain going by that, I was surprised we are still youngest 

Edited April 4, 2017 by brendan

[DubDee 25,857]

That is really quite amazing. Didn't think we have the youngest team goin round. Good things will come. Imagine trac and Angus with 70 games. We expect of these lads

ps. Freo are fked

[titan_uranus 25,016]

Dear lord Fremantle is a basket case.

[Little Goffy 14,534]

Something I find interesting is that we are very young in an unusual way. Normally the teams at the bottom of the age ladder are there because of three or four teenage draftee coming in at once, often experimentally.

For us, our only teenagers on the field are Oliver and Weideman, then Stretch our only 20-year old.

But then we've got 16 or so legitimate AFL-level players in the 21yrs to 23yrs range. That's an enormous 'bulge' which gives us 8 years to tinker and shape the list for top achievement, without having to focus on the dismal task of just trying to get competent bodies on the field.

Of course, the top priority right  now is to get a first rush of energy going and make sure Jones holds up a cup.

[DistrACTION Jackson 8,734]

The great thing we have now is such a strong nucleus of young guns and with free agency we have the opportunity to do what the Hawks did and cherry pick players to fill deficiencies. 

Even when say someone like Bernie Vince retires, we could easily go out and pluck someone in that 28-30 range who is looking to win a flag and it won't cost us anything but salary cap space. We can then still use our first round picks each year to continually bring in young talent.

If managed correctly we have a great opportunity to play 5-10 years of finals.

Edit: And if the Hawks and Freo think it will be a quick turn around I think they need to re-assess. They are in for a few years down the bottom. But it's good to see the system working to ensure bottom teams can get back up.

Edited April 4, 2017 by Is Dom Is Good

[Wiseblood 24,637]

This shows two things.  One, there is still so much improvement ahead for this list.  For many players in that 19-23 age range, they are still working on consistency, building on their strengths and limiting their weaknesses.  As they play more together, learn together and improve together, that consistency will come and when it does, the other 17 clubs had better look out.

The second is on the same theme - the lack of consistency means we will still have a few losses that will really hurt.  That's all part of the process.  Hopefully most don't lose sight of the bigger picture and stop themselves from jumping off the West Gate when the opposition kick a few goals in a row or we make a couple of bad turnovers.  For the time being it WILL happen, so just accept it and focus on where we're headed as a club - and that's up the ladder.

[DubDee 25,857]

Its hilarious that Ross Lyon refuses to rebuild.  lets bring in Bennell for 2 draft picks!  

the game is changing in a way that is anti-Ross Lyon and Im not sure he can change styles. Hopefully Easter Sat is an enjoyable day for us

[Salems Lot 2,530]

All the talk I heard from the Blues on the week end was about getting experience into their YOUNG list.  Did not make sense then and does not now compared to whom they were playing.

[dino rover 714]

Average age or median?

 

[return of the dees 47]

Good example on the weekend, we are prepared to play Sam Weideman over a Cam Pederson where Carlton are not prepared to play Harry Mckay over Daisy Thomas.

[sue 9,102]

50 minutes ago, dino rover said:

Average age or median?

 

It would be good if there was a histogram showing these age and experience distributions rather than relying on averages or medians. 

[george_on_the_outer 7,590]

I really don't like these statistical comparisons. 

Age and experience does not equal talent, which is what wins Premierships.  Good players stay on lists longer than untalented players.  So having a "young" side could mean you don't actually have any talent.  And as always, the comparisons made are on averages, or medians.  10 young untalented players in the VFL will do your age profile wonders. 1 Dustin Fletcher really stuffs it up.

Hawthorn are at the top of the list because they have good, but older players.  Not surprising they have won multiple premierships.  But putting older players into your list, just to make it more experienced doesn't produce the results as North found out. Likewise loading up with youngsters, like we tried in the past, doesn't work solely on that basis.  They have to be talented. 

Now which team would you think are more likely to win a premiership? 

                                       Age:                       Experience:

Western Bulldogs          25.61                       97.3

North                            25.44                        89.8        

Similar age and experience, but the difference in talent when you look at the list is what matters.  

But as others have pointed out, our youth would appear to be really, really talented.  If all goes well we will be in that Hawthorn position in the future, with old experienced players who have a couple of Premierships to their names. 

[old55 23,564]

12 minutes ago, sue said:

It would be good if there was a histogram showing these age and experience distributions rather than relying on averages or medians. 

Feel free to create one

[Wiseblood 24,637]

Just now, george_on_the_outer said:

I really don't like these statistical comparisons. 

I'm not normally a fan either, but I think this one has a little validity.

Of the four teams just above us from the weekend in terms of games and experience, none of them have won a game this year.  We're on the bottom of that list and we have won our first 2 games, one of which was a ripping win and the other was a total scrap.

I think what we can be excited about is that we clearly DO have the talent - as you rightly pointed out, it doesn't always equate to that when you compare teams of similar experience like the Dogs and Norf, but in this case I think it shows we certainly do have good young players and we are most certainly headed in the right direction.

[Dees2014 2,377]

2 hours ago, Wiseblood said:

This shows two things.  One, there is still so much improvement ahead for this list.  For many players in that 19-23 age range, they are still working on consistency, building on their strengths and limiting their weaknesses.  As they play more together, learn together and improve together, that consistency will come and when it does, the other 17 clubs had better look out.

The second is on the same theme - the lack of consistency means we will still have a few losses that will really hurt.  That's all part of the process.  Hopefully most don't lose sight of the bigger picture and stop themselves from jumping off the West Gate when the opposition kick a few goals in a row or we make a couple of bad turnovers.  For the time being it WILL happen, so just accept it and focus on where we're headed as a club - and that's up the ladder.

This is definitely a "two edged sword". Yes, we will see fantastic improvement over the next year or so as we mould a flag winning team; yes we will lose a few we should Win along the way; and unfortunately yes we will tail off badly towards the end of the season as the young guns run out of puff.

To avoid this I hope the club test our depth on an ongoing basis, and are prepared to rest the young ones periodically to allow them to freshen up, which means they don't play at Casey either. I think Brayshaw this week might be a good example, though with him it looks like being out of form so a stint in the twos might make sense (unless of course it is concussion related). 

Further as we get deeper into winter we should play a few older players like Pederson/Spencer/Hibberd/Trengove/Frost to rotate the roster to make sure the young stars are fresh for the home stretch and to make sure we have ready and rar'in replacements to cater for the inevitable injuries, suspensions, and loss of form. In a way it is a nice position to be in, certainly one we have seen for ten years or more. 

[sue 9,102]

33 minutes ago, Fifty-5 said:

Feel free to create one

Quite a job for 18 teams and many players, so sorry,  despite the fact that I read and post on Demonland, I have a life. hmmm, maybe not.

[Red and Blue realist 2,051]

3 hours ago, Little Goffy said:

Something I find interesting is that we are very young in an unusual way. Normally the teams at the bottom of the age ladder are there because of three or four teenage draftee coming in at once, often experimentally.

For us, our only teenagers on the field are Oliver and Weideman, then Stretch our only 20-year old.

But then we've got 16 or so legitimate AFL-level players in the 21yrs to 23yrs range. That's an enormous 'bulge' which gives us 8 years to tinker and shape the list for top achievement, without having to focus on the dismal task of just trying to get competent bodies on the field.

Of course, the top priority right  now is to get a first rush of energy going and make sure Jones holds up a cup.

Think this is exactly why they made Viney co-captain. He's in that age bracket, but he expects so much more than someone his age. While Jonesy, Vince and Lewis are great with their experience, there can be a fair difference in attitude and maturity in someone who's 5/6/7 years younger. 

With Viney relating too and then driving the younger guys, hopefully it'll also lead to more stability with them wanting to play alongside each other for years.

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,754]

1 hour ago, Red and Blue realist said:

Think this is exactly why they made Viney co-captain. He's in that age bracket, but he expects so much more than someone his age. While Jonesy, Vince and Lewis are great with their experience, there can be a fair difference in attitude and maturity in someone who's 5/6/7 years younger. 

With Viney relating too and then driving the younger guys, hopefully it'll also lead to more stability with them wanting to play alongside each other for years.

I agree with everything you say except that the club could have made Viney Vice-Captain now, rather than co-Captain, for the same reason and for the same long-term result.

[TRIGON 4,783]

1 hour ago, Dees2014 said:

This is definitely a "two edged sword". Yes, we will see fantastic improvement over the next year or so as we mould a flag winning team; yes we will lose a few we should Win along the way; and unfortunately yes we will tail off badly towards the end of the season as the young guns run out of puff.

 

Mitigating this risk by rotating our stars through the MRP?

[Red and Blue realist 2,051]

1 hour ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

I agree with everything you say except that the club could have made Viney Vice-Captain now, rather than co-Captain, for the same reason and for the same long-term result.

I think it was also an ownership type decision - the younger guys can't hide behind Jones/Vince/Lewis, they have to be up there and accountable. Vice-captain still meant they'd (the younger guys) still have someone above them rather than alongside them.

I know we won't hear if there was any extra discussions had with Lewis or Hogan about their suspensions, but I'd love it if Jones lead the talk to Lewis and Viney to Hogan, even if the rest of the leadership group was involved.  

[Adzman 2,154]

Oddly enough I think we will have a youngish list next season.

If you look at the potential players who might not be on the list next season, and replace them again with kids then we might be in the bottom 3 for age and experience again.

Trengove: 26 

Spencer: 28

Pedersen: 30

Kennedy: 23

Jkh: 22

I'm not suggesting all won't be here, but some of those cuts could come from this list. Replace them with 18yo again and we are right back in the bottom 3 for age. 

[DeeSpencer 25,687]

I don't really care for these things. In fact they annoy me.

Oscar, Weeds and Oliver I consider young and inexperienced.

Others in their 3rd, 4th even 5th year on AFL lists or under say 23 and with limited experience are nice to half but what does it matter if they don't perform and show they have more development?

We have to make sure this current crop makes it and then we need to keep adding pieces both young and older. 

[Skuit 10,031]

6 hours ago, Salems Lot said:

All the talk I heard from the Blues on the week end was about getting experience into their YOUNG list.  Did not make sense then and does not now compared to whom they were playing.

The match report on the AFL site even mentioned the Blues' immaturity as a factor in allowing us to get on top.

[Red and Blue realist 2,051]

1 hour ago, DeeSpencer said:

I don't really care for these things. In fact they annoy me.

Oscar, Weeds and Oliver I consider young and inexperienced.

Others in their 3rd, 4th even 5th year on AFL lists or under say 23 and with limited experience are nice to half but what does it matter if they don't perform and show they have more development?

We have to make sure this current crop makes it and then we need to keep adding pieces both young and older. 

They should only annoy you if it's used as an excuse, which we tried very hard not to do last year. There is some truth to players hitting their peak when around 26 - 30, just because they've managed 5 or more pre-seasons by then and have the miles in the legs to carry them through. 

You're right about it being about performance but also being able to show development, and that's the main reason I think we've been talked up in the media. Not only are we in a situation where a lot of our guys are performing, but with the development we'll only get better and better. Might just mean there's the odd inconsistent game or patch during a game, and that's where goody has to earn his keep by getting them re-focused and working through that.