The Most Un-Awesome Post Match Thread Ever

[The Sailing Demon 379]

14 hours ago, P-man said:

So basically gut our depth entirely. There goes a strong Casey side to maintain pressure for spots.

What happens if we get a few injuries? With no Dunn or Garland, who are the next in line KPDs?

Despite today's putrid effort, the list is in good shape now. A slash and burn of the list at the end of the season would be completely fuckng bonkers.

I guess what I meant was gone in terms of Melbourne playing future.
They can play for Casey all they want, I don't particularly care for any of those players, they are relics of a dark and mentally fragile generation.

[Cards13 9,117]

16 hours ago, Wiseblood said:

Well, that sucked.

We didn't want it early and we couldn't peg them back.  We had more of the ball in the end, more inside 50s and so forth, yet we played right in to their hands.  It's not good enough and I'm positive, with another pre-season under our belts, we will get better at these situations.

Hogan needs to fix his kicking, no doubt about it.  But to suggest he has an 'attitude' problem is ridiculous and disrespectful.  19 touches and 14 marks in horrid conditions is a damn good day out.  It's tainted, of course, with his kicking for goal, but that can be fixed.

And if I see posters claiming our culture hasn't changed and so forth, then you need to take a good, hard look at yourself.  You know it has changed.  We need to eliminate these types of losses, but I suspect this will motivate the boys for a big pre-season and a crack at finals in 2017.

Just noticed it was 20 free kicks to 5 today.  I hate blaming something like this, but to suggest we only earned a total of 5 free kicks in a game of footy is ludicrous.

Watched the game from level 4 as I wanted to see how our Fwds worked up and down the ground. The amount of times Hoges is burnt on a lead was noticeable. We had enough of the ball and enough fwd entries we just didn't lower our eyes or didn't move it quick enough to get out the back when we he options.

[Cards13 9,117]

17 hours ago, WattsUp2312 said:

Brought back to reality.

michie and Neal-bullen can't have any more chances. Just not good enough.

midfield a disaster and Oliver was cooked early. He needs to build up in endurance

fwd structure disgraceful. Weirderman didn't look fit and 

Both players earned a spot, I think ANB deserves another go this week, not as a small fwd as he ain't one. To say he is shot is over the top.

Oli is a first year player, he does need to realise he has 2 feet he can use. They won't melt if the leather from the ball touches them. They shut down our options to spread from the contest really well, but you can then create opportunities up the ground by kicking it early, if our Fwds play in front.

[Demonised 1,215]

Clearances. Nuff said.

[poita 3,641]

People were asking a week or so ago about how best to pay tribute Paul Roos. Yesterday's debacle was the perfect way to remember Roos, containing as it did all the trademarks of his tenure:

• Inexplicable team selections that completely ignored form and structure
• Uninspiring and underwhelming match day coaching (did we do anything at all to change things up?)
• A complete inability to adjust our playing style to sub-optimal conditions
• A complete inability to turn a game that is getting away from us
• The continued absence of a plan B (plan A of course being that Gawn wins the game off his own boot)
• Leaders who go missing every time the pressure goes up a notch (looking at you, Vince and Jones)
• The unfailing optimism that C and D grade footballers such as Kent and Vandenberg will suddenly start displaying basic football skills on a regular basis
• A mediocre playing group that believes all the hype that surrounds it and doesn't think they need to come to play each week
• A coaching group that never sees these performances coming
• And above all, the unceasing inability of this club to give its long suffering supporters a glimmer of hope before taking it away in the cruelest way possible.

[chook fowler 18,327]

57 minutes ago, Dante said:

 

Kade Simpson - We didn't set out to end Melbourne's season, that's just a bonus.

If that doesn't inspire us to beat them next time, what will? Melbourne play bruise free football?

Love that attitude - would be happy for our players to think similarly.

[Cards13 9,117]

17 hours ago, DemonAndrew said:

Looked flat from the get go.

 

Very Dee-flating 

Yea it was odd wasn't it. Totally flat but also seems totally surprised by Carlton being very aggressive before the bounce.

We still have the issue of not being able to change the course of a game, we don't have anyone yet who can do so. If we are in the game and in front we can keep driving but when flat it's a different story. This should change as the younger "guns" grow into the game... We hope.

[Scipio 5,868]

33 minutes ago, poita said:

People were asking a week or so ago about how best to pay tribute Paul Roos. Yesterday's debacle was the perfect way to remember Roos, containing as it did all the trademarks of his tenure:

• Inexplicable team selections that completely ignored form and structure
• Uninspiring and underwhelming match day coaching (did we do anything at all to change things up?)
• A complete inability to adjust our playing style to sub-optimal conditions
• A complete inability to turn a game that is getting away from us
• The continued absence of a plan B (plan A of course being that Gawn wins the game off his own boot)
• Leaders who go missing every time the pressure goes up a notch (looking at you, Vince and Jones)
• The unfailing optimism that C and D grade footballers such as Kent and Vandenberg will suddenly start displaying basic football skills on a regular basis
• A mediocre playing group that believes all the hype that surrounds it and doesn't think they need to come to play each week
• A coaching group that never sees these performances coming
• And above all, the unceasing inability of this club to give its long suffering supporters a glimmer of hope before taking it away in the cruelest way possible.

How many other coaches could have taken us from atrocious to 10 wins in a season (and rising) in 3 years?

[Undeeterred 2,869]

34 minutes ago, poita said:

People were asking a week or so ago about how best to pay tribute Paul Roos. Yesterday's debacle was the perfect way to remember Roos, containing as it did all the trademarks of his tenure:

• Inexplicable team selections that completely ignored form and structure
• Uninspiring and underwhelming match day coaching (did we do anything at all to change things up?)
• A complete inability to adjust our playing style to sub-optimal conditions
• A complete inability to turn a game that is getting away from us
• The continued absence of a plan B (plan A of course being that Gawn wins the game off his own boot)
• Leaders who go missing every time the pressure goes up a notch (looking at you, Vince and Jones)
• The unfailing optimism that C and D grade footballers such as Kent and Vandenberg will suddenly start displaying basic football skills on a regular basis
• A mediocre playing group that believes all the hype that surrounds it and doesn't think they need to come to play each week
• A coaching group that never sees these performances coming
• And above all, the unceasing inability of this club to give its long suffering supporters a glimmer of hope before taking it away in the cruelest way possible.

This is absolute gold.

I've tried since I got home from the game to get the energy up to post something in this thread, but now I don't need to.

[Undeeterred 2,869]

1 minute ago, Django said:

How many other coaches could have taken us from atrocious to 10 wins in a season (and rising) in 3 years?

Only a couple of those pottings are Roos related. 

The absolutely single biggest problem we still have is a complete leadership vacuum. Jones goes missing and Vince is conspicuous by his complete and utter laziness and stupidity.

We've cleaned out the rest of our oldest quartile on the list (AGAIN!) because they are a pack of useless peanuts who can't play football and the last thing we want is the youngsters learning from them on match day. Kick a torp, Lynden!!! Said no-one ever.

This is a never ending cycle and is the reason why teams like Carlton, St Kilda and Port constantly fall quicker than us, then rise quicker again.

[Scipio 5,868]

4 minutes ago, Undeeterred said:

Only a couple of those pottings are Roos related. 

The absolutely single biggest problem we still have is a complete leadership vacuum. Jones goes missing and Vince is conspicuous by his complete and utter laziness and stupidity.

We've cleaned out the rest of our oldest quartile on the list (AGAIN!) because they are a pack of useless peanuts who can't play football and the last thing we want is the youngsters learning from them on match day. Kick a torp, Lynden!!! Said no-one ever.

This is a never ending cycle and is the reason why teams like Carlton, St Kilda and Port constantly fall quicker than us, then rise quicker again.

Almost all of those points are Roos related for me, he's the head coach.

There's no doubt we still have big issues, but the improvement has been very good considering the age profile of our list, and how disgustingly bad we were only a few years ago. I agree with your sentiment about leadership - there's no arguing with the generation gap caused by shocking drafting for a lengthy period.

It's a time thing though. We've now drafted a solid crop that within a couple of years will start to fill those leadership spots far better than those before.

And Vince has been poor a number of times this year, but there is no denying that trading him in has been a masterstroke. Jones was one of our best yesterday. 

[stuie 7,374]

I still feel we lack an organizational leader who can read the flow of the game. Chunk is a heart and soul lead by example type, as is Viney, and Bernie has lost his way a bit as a leader, but with a player driven structure like Roos has tried to put in place we really need that leader who can feel what is happening with momentum etc and direct our young players in such a way that we can counter it.

 

[ArtificialWisdom 3,888]

We need to spend some time working on congested scoring. When we play against good teams we do well because we rebound hard and fast from their forwardline and score in space. When we play against a poor team we lock it in and have alot of repeat inside 50s for no score. The classic flood is too effective against us. Too often we get repeat entries for no score then when opposition finally got out they kicked an easy goal in space. 

[Undeeterred 2,869]

7 minutes ago, Django said:

Almost all of those points are Roos related for me, he's the head coach.

There's no doubt we still have big issues, but the improvement has been very good considering the age profile of our list, and how disgustingly bad we were only a few years ago. I agree with your sentiment about leadership - there's no arguing with the generation gap caused by shocking drafting for a lengthy period.

It's a time thing though. We've now drafted a solid crop that within a couple of years will start to fill those leadership spots far better than those before.

And Vince has been poor a number of times this year, but there is no denying that trading him in has been a masterstroke. Jones was one of our best yesterday. 

Those leaders have nobody to learn from. Just like last time we brought in heaps of kids and had no leaders. And the time before that.

Look at St Kilda. Their young kids are learning from Riewoldt, Montagna, Fisher. Ours are learning from Jones, Garland and Dunn.

And Vince has not been 'poor'. He has been abysmal on a number of occasions. Abysmal. Today was no different. Playing on with no awareness 30 metres from their goal, kicking into the man in the mark when we have blokes open inside 50 etc etc. Masterstoke? I'm not sure. He had a good year last year, but I wouldn't go as far as that.

And don't get me started on Jones. He was awful yesterday.

[Lucifers Hero 37,207]

12 minutes ago, stuie said:

I still feel we lack an organizational leader who can read the flow of the game. Chunk is a heart and soul lead by example type, as is Viney, and Bernie has lost his way a bit as a leader, but with a player driven structure like Roos has tried to put in place we really need that leader who can feel what is happening with momentum etc and direct our young players in such a way that we can counter it.

Stuie, I have seen a few posts refer to this lately.  Am interested to know where it is coming from...can you help?

Edited August 21, 2016 by Lucifer's Hero

[Jaded No More 58,503]

This absolute deadsh!t I work with has been telling me all week how bad Melbourne is and how Carlton will win (a big headed Carlton fan obviously). Boy did I cop it again this morning. 

Reminded him to look at how his team has gone this year and maybe tone down the cockiness. 

Also had to remind the absolute loser sitting behind us yesterday of that. When the siren went I said to him well done, enjoy celebrating your final birth... Oh hang on, you're a bottom 4 team. 

[Jaded No More 58,503]

35 minutes ago, Django said:

How many other coaches could have taken us from atrocious to 10 wins in a season (and rising) in 3 years?

While also being a great front man and media personality who could cop with the heat and pressure of big losses and disappointing results? 

Imagine if any other coach came in post Roos and had a 4 win season... Everyone would want him sacked. 

Roos steadied the ship on and off the field and built a culture and a list capable of going somewhere other than wooden spoon land. 

He isn't the best match day coach but he is the man we had to have!

[stuie 7,374]

10 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Stuie, I have seen a few posts refer to this lately.  Am interested to know where it is coming from...can you help?

I know it was referenced in an article recently which is probably why a few people have mentioned it, just can't remember which one at the moment. Still looking for a link for you, but from what i remember about it, it was talked about how Roos empowers the players and in particular the leadership group to make changes and organize each other on game day, rather than him yelling down the phone all day.

 

[stuie 7,374]

17 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Stuie, I have seen a few posts refer to this lately.  Am interested to know where it is coming from...can you help?

 

5 minutes ago, stuie said:

I know it was referenced in an article recently which is probably why a few people have mentioned it, just can't remember which one at the moment. Still looking for a link for you, but from what i remember about it, it was talked about how Roos empowers the players and in particular the leadership group to make changes and organize each other on game day, rather than him yelling down the phone all day.

 

Found it...

"He helps creates high-performance environments driven by strong leadership through empowerment. The absolute key is that coaches don't take the reigns back once things go wrong - it's a player-driven process. That's where real development occurs and onfield leadership emerges.."

http://www.espn.com.au/afl/story/_/id/17343844/afl-weaker-paul-roos-exit-leaves-demons-stronger-says-jude-bolton

 

[DubDee 20,950]

yesterday wasnt about personnel or tactics for me.  it was attitude.  Somehow, in typical Melbourne fashion we went in without being 100% switched on.

I could tell within 3-4 minutes we would lose - just like it was clear within 3-4 minutes against the Hawks that we were up for it and would push them. they literally walked the ball forward for the first goal in 30 seconds.  we werent even trying. the culture/attitude issues have improved but are still there and this should be the main focus as we will never win anything if we are soft mentally - expect the LG next year to reflect some change in this area.  Goody will pick players who front up and have self belief

im not even that annoyed as it didnt surprise me.  in some ways id prefer it happened now so we can work on it rather than getting 12 wins and thinking we dont need to change anything for next year

wouldnt surpirse me if we beat the cats next week!

[Skin Deeamond 339]

1 hour ago, Cards13 said:

Yea it was odd wasn't it. Totally flat but also seems totally surprised by Carlton being very aggressive before the bounce.

We still have the issue of not being able to change the course of a game, we don't have anyone yet who can do so. If we are in the game and in front we can keep driving but when flat it's a different story. This should change as the younger "guns" grow into the game... We hope.

There's no guarantee of this given the mental fragility demonstrated time and again.

[qwerty7 315]

How disappointing. I don’t understand where the intensity and drive to win that we have brought to the past four matches disappeared to? Did we get too cocky? Did we underestimate our opponent? Or were we simply just flat? Who knows, but it certainly was not the team we have been watching the last month. Having watched the post-match chats with both Viney and Hunt, you can see the disappointment and frustration is written all over their faces too.

The issue for Melbourne this season has been both consistency and the gap between our best and worst. Consistency comes down to age and inexperience (sometimes also lack of leadership) so it is something we will improve as we see our players develop and age. The enormous gap in our performance ability though I believe is mainly mental and lack of preparation. When we play our best footy, we are a top eight, even a top four team. We have proven that on numerous occasions this year when encountering teams like Hawthorn, Adelaide, West Coast, etc. Yet our worst is insipid and leaves us vulnerable to [censored] teams like Essendon or Carlton.

It’s almost as if we expected Carlton would let us win yesterday. Carlton had lost nine in a row coming into this match and even more undignifying, lost to Brisbane – they were hungry for a win. We too had so much to play for; we were playing for a spot in the finals. However, they came in hungrier and wanted the game more. Melbourne never stepped it up and never aroused the same ferocity and eagerness to win. Consequently, we fell 20 points short and dashed our dreams for finals. Carlton played well thanks to Cripps and Gibbs, but the team itself did not play superbly. We have encountered teams playing far better than they were and managed to beat them – the issue was that we played crap. Viney said it in the post-match, they didn’t play how they had prepped all week and so they lost. But where is the plan B? How do you adjust the game if the opponent’s set up does not work in harmony with yours? Melbourne quite simply cannot handle the heat when things aren’t going their way. I do want to acknowledge Neville Jetta though yesterday, he prevented the game from going catastrophic.

Disappointment and frustration aside, I’m still hopeful for 2017. Oliver is going to be a star and isn’t so different from Cripps himself in the way he plays. Petracca will be a gun that will give us that edginess to our game. Viney is a machine and will have more of a leadership role next year that will be extremely valuable to the team. Watts will only improve, as will the McDonald brothers and Frosty. Hogan will amend his goal-kicking in preseason and Weideman will bulk up. If we can land Hibberd, he will be a very valuable inclusion and I believe Melksham will be too. Brayshaw and Hunty are also exciting prospects. Don’t also forget Gawn. There is a lot to be content and excited about, Melbourne just need to work on preparation, consistency and leadership. Jonesy and Vince cop a lot on here, but they have been instrumental to a number of our wins, don’t discredit them of that. I do agree, however, that Vince isn’t leadership material but I think he would think that too. He has only been awarded it based on the fact he is one of the few elder players we have in an extremely young team.

Hopefully we finish off next week, not necessarily with a win, but at least a good contest like we have done so with many of our other matches of the year. 

[jnrmac 19,129]

12 hours ago, Diamond said:

We didn't come to play.

Oh well that's easily fixed then

[Dr. Gonzo 22,526]

2 hours ago, stuie said:

We lost by 20. They scored 40 more points from clearances. That seems a pretty obvious equation to me.

Maybe when you're unable to think more conceptually.

[Dr. Gonzo 22,526]

1 hour ago, Cards13 said:

Watched the game from level 4 as I wanted to see how our Fwds worked up and down the ground. The amount of times Hoges is burnt on a lead was noticeable. We had enough of the ball and enough fwd entries we just didn't lower our eyes or didn't move it quick enough to get out the back when we he options.

Yep we didn't want to work hard and Carlton did, that was the difference. Even when we started to win the ball we just bombed away, stark contrast to our last two games. They wanted to do it easy yesterday and thought it would just happen but I think they got a rude awakening.