Changes v Hawthorn

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

18 hours ago, Petraccattack said:

Something tells me a game vs Hawthorn where they are looking for a bloodbath to prepare for the finals is not the game to debut Weed in.

I'll second that. I wouldn't play him at all this year. He's barely going at VFL level at this stage. Rarely holds a mark and is a fumble king atm.

 

[Lucifers Hero 39,805]

20 hours ago, Petraccattack said:

Something tells me a game vs Hawthorn where they are looking for a bloodbath to prepare for the finals is not the game to debut Weed in.

A 'bloodbath' is for teams 2 to 8!  

Hawks are into finals prep mode - they rested Rioli and Puopolo last week (general soreness).  Every chance they will rest one or two others this week.  They just want to get to finals with no injures and everyone freshened up.

Last year we debuted ANB and stretch against two of Sydney, Freo, Hawks but I can't remember which ones.  I'm not suggesting we debut Weid or Huelett or anyone this week - just saying we should not fear it and the club has done similar before.

Edited August 2, 2016 by Lucifer's Hero

[Little Richard 6,262]

1 hour ago, Rusty Nails said:

I'll second that. I wouldn't play him at all this year. He's barely going at VFL level at this stage. Rarely holds a mark and is a fumble king atm.

 

Sounds like a complete 180 from his form at the beginning of the year.

I'd like to see Hulett debut before Weideman, but not sure either will this week as Dawes was serviceable on Sunday.

Edited August 2, 2016 by Django

[Glenn Molloy 494]

On 8/1/2016 at 11:43 AM, Fifty-5 said:

Bernie is down but against Hawthorn last time it was his, Tyson's and Jones' hardness at the contest that set up our competitive performance and I expect him to lift this week.  I think the Hawks were genuinely surprised how hard we went.  I'd like to find a spot for BenKen, he smashes in and I think that's going to be important.

Isaac Smith beat us on the outside last time, it would be good to match up defensively against him.

Best post on this thread by a street.  Bernie played superbly on Mitchell and belted him at every opportunity, to the point where the Hawks got pretty animated with him in the last quarter.  I loved it - it was the first time I've seen a Melbourne player stand up to Hawthorn's bullying in 10 years, and we need to do the same again on Saturday regardless of the outcome. Our only chance is to smash them on the inside because they're too clever on the outside for us.

Given our deplorable kicking on the weekend, I'd like to see Newton get a game.  He's played well in the VFL last week and I think the club needs to use the next 4 weeks to decide whether or not to keep him next year.  He's a beautiful kick and if he could just get a bit more of the pill at AFL level he'd be an important member of our side.  Needs a run at it.  

[ManDee 7,148]

2 hours ago, Django said:

Sounds like a complete 180 from his form at the beginning of the year.

I'd like to see Hulett debut before Weideman, but not sure either will this week as Dawes was serviceable on Sunday.

I have an old axe, it is blunt, rusty and has a broken handle it is serviceable, oh, I see what you mean.

[old dee 23,791]

16 minutes ago, ManDee said:

I have an old axe, it is blunt, rusty and has a broken handle it is serviceable, oh, I see what you mean.

I am sure it would still crack almonds MD

Chop down trees Hmmmmmmm I doubt it.

[chook fowler 19,459]

Seems from what Roos said Bernie has given himself a kick in the arse - could well come out firing against the Hawks - he will certainly need to

[Gator 17,350]

A few players butcher the ball by foot but none more-so than Harmes and Matt Jones.

Be gone. 

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

2 hours ago, Django said:

Sounds like a complete 180 from his form at the beginning of the year.

I'd like to see Hulett debut before Weideman, but not sure either will this week as Dawes was serviceable on Sunday.

I agree re: Hulett but maybe not against the Hawks Django. The week after maybe for either Kent/Garlett depending on their output this week and Hulett's performance at Casey. He was patchy with Casey and had some good moments but wouldn't say that performance was noteworthy enough to force his way in just yet.

Consider resting Hogan for Pedersen. Had a very solid hit out last week, without being great. But showed signs he was hitting pretty good form, laying some nice tackles and contested well. Goal kicking accuracy not great but probably not much worse/better than Hulk atm. Hulk a possible knee now and its been a long season, especially for a key forward role. Rest would do him world of good for the last few games.

Pedersen can also take occasional ruck duties, allows Gawn to rest forward a bit more. Also keeps Watts out of the ruck duties allowing him to focus his energy on where he is most damaging. Maybe occasional 3rd man up role instead to keep him out of trouble against the Hawks crash & bash rucks and give Big M another chop out option.

I would also give Vince a rest. After watching that match in full he is def either carrying something or just a bit spent with general soreness. Not a young buck now and the week off will do him the world of good also for a return the week after. Would bring either Grimes in as a hard 'run with' tag on Mitchell for most of the day, alternating with Viney. Or Clarry to try and clean up our inside ball use and clearances which was pretty horrid against the Sons. If Clarry then i would share tag duties between Viney & Harmes. Both are ball butchers in close much of the time right now (probably tiring a little as the season wears) and their efforts to shut down Mitchell should provide a better 'pay off' than allowing him a free reign and trying to counter his output the other way.

I would also rest Wagner for this week also. Was serviceable against the Sons, but at times appeared to tire and looked a little out of his depth and it was only the Sons. Dunn to cover here for the week and let Wagner freshen up a little also. Wags, Omac & Tmac also need to work on their organisation a hec more as they are often all going up together (or 2 of them) instead of one staying down in a 2 on 1 or 3 on 2. Ball getting out out the back too often as a result. 

 

Edited August 2, 2016 by Rusty Nails

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

1 hour ago, Glenn Molloy said:

Best post on this thread by a street.  Bernie played superbly on Mitchell and belted him at every opportunity, to the point where the Hawks got pretty animated with him in the last quarter.  I loved it - it was the first time I've seen a Melbourne player stand up to Hawthorn's bullying in 10 years, and we need to do the same again on Saturday regardless of the outcome. Our only chance is to smash them on the inside because they're too clever on the outside for us.

Given our deplorable kicking on the weekend, I'd like to see Newton get a game.  He's played well in the VFL last week and I think the club needs to use the next 4 weeks to decide whether or not to keep him next year.  He's a beautiful kick and if he could just get a bit more of the pill at AFL level he'd be an important member of our side.  Needs a run at it.  

Worth a run but who for Glen?

[Biffen 12,943]

I hope we can crack in hard and injure the Hawks.

I would love to see a few hobbling off for surgery/ early retirement.

I  know this is quite negative but it would make me feel really good if we had some part in hastening their slow demise .

[pitmaster 3,551]

4 minutes ago, Biffen said:

I hope we can crack in hard and injure the Hawks.

I would love to see a few hobbling off for surgery/ early retirement.

I  know this is quite negative but it would make me feel really good if we had some part in hastening their slow demise .

As the great Doug Heywood once said: "Biffen by name and Biffen by nature."

And I share your sentiments, Biff. An upset win would be even better.

[McQueen 17,864]

I know this probably isn't the attitude we're trying to promote, but I couldn't give less of a feck about changes this week.

The selection all year has been vague and confusing and without a doubt led to some of our defeats when it shouldn't have. 

I've already ready pulled my fishing rods out and started servicing some reels.

[bing181 9,236]

On 31 July 2016 at 11:14 PM, AngryAtCasey said:

Harmes went at 69.9% disposal efficiency. So that would be 7 out of 23 that weren't efficient. 

Sevens closer to 3 or 4 then 21....

I'm always the first one here to cite stats, but I really question that stat on Harmes or what it's really saying. There were a few of them that got to where they were headed, so count as effective disposals, but they were hardly lace-out on the chest, and the receiver really had to work.

[old dee 23,791]

1 minute ago, McQueen said:

I know this probably isn't the attitude we're trying to promote, but I couldn't give less of a feck about changes this week.

The selection all year has been vague and confusing and without a doubt led to some of our defeats when it shouldn't have. 

I've already ready pulled my fishing rods out and started servicing some reels.

Well that is change to the last decade Steve.

For  the past ten years we would have been doing this at the end of May.

IMO quite often selection this year has not always been about giving us the best chance of winning.

[McQueen 17,864]

4 minutes ago, old dee said:

Well that is change to the last decade Steve.

For  the past ten years we would have been doing this at the end of May.

IMO quite often selection this year has not always been about giving us the best chance of winning.

I agree with that last paragraph but it's not in the same vein as circa 2008.

[DeeZone 9,841]

I also like your sentiments Biffen but I crave a win over this mob even more than the saints, they have tortured us for years, just cannot see us applying our best pressure for four quarters and that is the only way that I can see us beating them. Unless of course we took full advantage of big Max's dominance in the ruck and actually scored some easy goals out of the middle ala Petracca and VB. I want it to still be up for grabs at the 20 minute mark of the last quarter. Also just on Pedo wasn't it blowing a gale out at Pirahna park?? GO DEE's

[old dee 23,791]

9 minutes ago, McQueen said:

I agree with that last paragraph but it's not in the same vein as circa 2008.

Yep

[Little Richard 6,262]

1 hour ago, Rusty Nails said:

I agree re: Hulett but maybe not against the Hawks Django. The week after maybe for either Kent/Garlett depending on their output this week and Hulett's performance at Casey. He was patchy with Casey and had some good moments but wouldn't say that performance was noteworthy enough to force his way in just yet.

Consider resting Hogan for Pedersen. Had a very solid hit out last week, without being great. But showed signs he was hitting pretty good form, laying some nice tackles and contested well. Goal kicking accuracy not great but probably not much worse/better than Hulk atm. Hulk a possible knee now and its been a long season, especially for a key forward role. Rest would do him world of good for the last few games.

Pedersen can also take occasional ruck duties, allows Gawn to rest forward a bit more. Also keeps Watts out of the ruck duties allowing him to focus his energy on where he is most damaging. Maybe occasional 3rd man up role instead to keep him out of trouble against the Hawks crash & bash rucks and give Big M another chop out option.

I would also give Vince a rest. After watching that match in full he is def either carrying something or just a bit spent with general soreness. Not a young buck now and the week off will do him the world of good also for a return the week after. Would bring either Grimes in as a hard 'run with' tag on Mitchell for most of the day, alternating with Viney. Or Clarry to try and clean up our inside ball use and clearances which was pretty horrid against the Sons. If Clarry then i would share tag duties between Viney & Harmes. Both are ball butchers in close much of the time right now (probably tiring a little as the season wears) and their efforts to shut down Mitchell should provide a better 'pay off' than allowing him a free reign and trying to counter his output the other way.

I would also rest Wagner for this week also. Was serviceable against the Sons, but at times appeared to tire and looked a little out of his depth and it was only the Sons. Dunn to cover here for the week and let Wagner freshen up a little also. Wags, Omac & Tmac also need to work on their organisation a hec more as they are often all going up together (or 2 of them) instead of one staying down in a 2 on 1 or 3 on 2. Ball getting out out the back too often as a result. 

 

I honestly forgot about Pedersen. He's a much better option than Dawes if fit, and I do agree that Hawthorn probably isn't the team you want to blood a young player against. Especially a key forward.

[layzie 33,803]

I would love to see Weideman get a guernsey this week after his goals for Casey.

Having said that we must bring Oliver back in and have him play out the year surely.

[Satyriconhome 10,878]

1 hour ago, Django said:

I honestly forgot about Pedersen. He's a much better option than Dawes if fit, and I do agree that Hawthorn probably isn't the team you want to blood a young player against. Especially a key forward.

Why, I thought the best game to do it, shows the player straight away what AFL footy is about

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

4 hours ago, bing181 said:

I'm always the first one here to cite stats, but I really question that stat on Harmes or what it's really saying. There were a few of them that got to where they were headed, so count as effective disposals, but they were hardly lace-out on the chest, and the receiver really had to work.

Harmes is a W.I.P. but so are many at this stage Bing.  We have such an inexperienced list in general. They tend to make a huge clanger one quarter (or moment) eg.,His decision to go for an extremely high degree risky inside kick from a mark on the HBF (on boundary line) which went straight to a Sons player who turned and goaled (or gave off to another for the goal) i think in the 3rd!? Then he contests well from a Son's kick in late in the last, gets a solid contested clearance, gives off a handball to Hunt who gets it to Wattsy for the mark and the winning goal!

I think you will find that if you look hard enough Harmes does a fair bit of this inside "link" stuff that tends to go a bit unnoticed versus some of the run and gun flashy stuff  on the outside from others. Having said that i don't think he is any cleaner inside than say a Viney, Bugg or Gus, maybe worse at times, but the work ethic is also there. Kicking not so great as you say vs some others like Tracc, Matty or Stretch but he tends to be involved in a fair amount of contested in and under, hitting packs hard when ball is in dispute. His gutsy mark in the middle running towards a probable collision without fear was a highlight for me. Some would have shirked that or heard footsteps and spilled it.

Wasn't a great game by any means but he stayed competitive and was in the contest right to the end. I like the cut of his jib even if a bit rough around the edges right now. Lots to learn but unless he tips off the edge i reckon he is worth persisting with.

[Glenn Molloy 494]

17 hours ago, Rusty Nails said:

Worth a run but who for Glen?

Fair question Rusty.  I think it has to be M.Jones or Harmes based on their disposal over the weekend.  Harmes' adaptability might save him.  I like M.Jones, particularly this year but his kicking is still diabolical at times.

[picket fence 17,169]

Surely DAWES needs to be dropped this week, he was dreadful last Sunday!

[hells bells 2,023]

I'd be tempted to throw Oliver into the half-back line.  He is competitive, aggressive, strong, good overhead, quick, makes good decisions and has good disposal.  
He is too good for the VFL and seemingly can't force his way into the midfield.  He'd do a better job than Wagner and Harmes in that role.