The Melbourne Defence

[Adam The God 30,644]

Despite a lot of negative talk about how our defence 'leaks goals like a sieve', I'd argue that our FD would be quietly confident with this year's return.

At the start of the year, they tried some older heads, hoping the Dunn's and Garland's of the world would provide some much needed experience down there, to steady the younger heads that would eventually get games. Things didn't go to plan and those older guys were dropped in the first quarter of the season. That meant we were bound to struggle for consistency back there as inexperienced players were teamed together to play a defensive system that none of them had ever played before and required a bit of game day learning.

I'd proffer for the betterment of our team, at this stage of the year, we've now got multiple games in a row into Oscar McDonald, Sam Frost, Jayden Hunt and Josh Wagner. Tom McDonald and Jetta have obviously been mainstays, but now that there's a bit of continuity and understanding back there, I'm excited by what this new-look defence offers. They're brave, they're bold, they're decent spoilers, they're quick. The major deficiency as everyone knows is our disposal coming off half back. Some of that will be eradicated by game experience and hopefully the rest will be solved by gaining new personnel for that area of the ground.

Due to the lack of experience in defence, we'll still make stupid errors from time to time, but IMO, this area of the ground is a work in progress that is further along than I think some posters give credit. 

I've no doubt we'll look to strengthen our list with defensive reinforcements and they'll have to come in and learn the Melbourne way. We now have a defensive brand. That is, turn defence into attack as soon as you take possession. This is worlds apart from previous years, even under Roos' leadership. I can see where this defence is going and I can see how important they are to our attacking prospects, but ultimately, hopefully most games will be won in the midfield and with a young midfield currently second in the competition for contested possessions and clearances, we have a team on the rise with exciting options all over the ground.

[Gator 18,019]

Frost should have been in the back-line all year. 

Dunn wasn't selected in round one and it was posted in the preseason on Demonland that he was out of favour and that Goodwin was going to play Oscar ahead of him, so that wasn't a decision made as the year unfolded. 

We lack keep position depth in the back-line, so I'm sure they'll draft a young tall defender.  But yes, overall the list is taking shape and should be in a great position post this trade and draft period. 

As an unrelated aside, I greatly look forward to Oliver, Petracca, Salem and Brayshaw fully fit and playing in the same team in 2017. 

[junk 342]

There is nothing wrong by playing Frost forward,versatility is the key to success and besides we were never going to make the finals. Some of the older players won't be at the club next year and I am sure we will enmd up with decent replacements. GO THE DEES

[Adam The God 30,644]

1 hour ago, ProDee said:

Frost should have been in the back-line all year. 

Dunn wasn't selected in round one and it was posted in the preseason on Demonland that he was out of favour and that Goodwin was going to play Oscar ahead of him, so that wasn't a decision made as the year unfolded. 

We lack keep position depth in the back-line, so I'm sure they'll draft a young tall defender.  But yes, overall the list is taking shape and should be in a great position post this trade and draft period. 

As an unrelated aside, I greatly look forward to Oliver, Petracca, Salem and Brayshaw fully fit and playing in the same team in 2017. 

Agree on Frost. And RE: Dunn, they did eventually turn to him though, so I guess that's more what I was thinking. 

Cannot wait for Oliver, Petracca, Salem and Brayshaw to get 50 or so games under their belts either.

[Wiseblood 24,637]

The backline, and the gameplan, was always going to be a work in progress this year.  Most could see it, while others shook their fists at it and claimed it would never work and forward lines would decimate us.

That hasn't been the case.  Good sides have still been able to score against us, as Adelaide did last week, but I think we can all see it coming together.  The more they play together, the better they'll become.

I do agree that we probably need to get in some extra key position depth down back - do we look at a late, Marcus Adams type pick, or do we trade for it?  How do we offload one of Dunn or Garland to create that room?

[Moonshadow 17,678]

Hopefully the club will draft a key backman or trade/FA one with good disposal at the end of the season. Back six with Jetta, Hunt, Wagner, Milkshake, Hibbert (hopefully) and possibly Salem competing for a place alongside two or three tall backs.

[Demonsterative 3,021]

Having Frost down back has helped our backs with the opposition on the burst. It seems we are not getting caught out the back with Frost and TMac in the baclline. both TMac and Frost have all the athletic capabilities to play a zone defence. Height, Pace, Edurance and athleticism. 

Jetta is a gun down back and will shut down the best smalls in the league whilst Hunt provides dash. 

With more rotations (Meksham, Brayshaw, Oliver and Salem) and experience from our midfield, this will help our defence in future years too. 

[Winter Dan 472]

I think Harmes would be a good fit for the HB line, cld be Hibbert like. Tough & strong, attacking, good overhead, got some toe and skills are decent.

[P-man 13,367]

Hibberd. Not Hibbert. He's not a frog.

[rjay 25,360]

I like White...similar height to Gibson, good in the air, nice kick and hard at it. 

Time to give him a run of games.

[Lucifers Hero 40,574]

From the guys down back:

Tom Mc: “The backline did a good job...That’s something we’ve tried to work on this year, being super flexible on their (the opposition’s) main key forward or ruckman...at times, Neville Jetta is going to have to play on [Matthew] Pavlich and I’m going to have to go on [Hayden] Ballantyne...We expect that Nev will do the job on Pavlich, when he’s on him and then I’ll do it on Ballantyne, when it’s my time to go. Sometimes you get found out, but in general that flexibility allows us to help the team more often than not.” http://www.melbournefc.com.au/news/2016-07-10/mcdonald-praises-backlines-evolvement

I guess that answers the questions on DL about why the defenders look mismatched at times.

Mitch White:  “[Against Freo], we were just talking really well and setting up early and it was a credit to the boys up front...hey really locked it in and put the pressure on, which helped us and allowed us to set-up really quickly.”  http://www.melbournefc.com.au/news/2016-07-10/mitch-made-of-white-stuff

Good description of 'team defence', right there.

The 'Diamond Defence' is here to stay and it looks to be working better each week.  I guess the leaking out back vs Ess, StK and Port was the learning 'we had to have'.  We will know next Sunday.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

What happens if we allow Riewoldt to run free again this weekend?

[old dee 24,028]

3 minutes ago, Clint Bizkit said:

What happens if we allow Riewoldt to run free again this weekend?

We will lose. It is that simple IMO CB

[old dee 24,028]

1 hour ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

From the guys down back:

Tom Mc: “The backline did a good job...That’s something we’ve tried to work on this year, being super flexible on their (the opposition’s) main key forward or ruckman...at times, Neville Jetta is going to have to play on [Matthew] Pavlich and I’m going to have to go on [Hayden] Ballantyne...We expect that Nev will do the job on Pavlich, when he’s on him and then I’ll do it on Ballantyne, when it’s my time to go. Sometimes you get found out, but in general that flexibility allows us to help the team more often than not.” http://www.melbournefc.com.au/news/2016-07-10/mcdonald-praises-backlines-evolvement

I guess that answers the questions on DL about why the defenders look mismatched at times.

Mitch White:  “[Against Freo], we were just talking really well and setting up early and it was a credit to the boys up front...hey really locked it in and put the pressure on, which helped us and allowed us to set-up really quickly.”  http://www.melbournefc.com.au/news/2016-07-10/mitch-made-of-white-stuff

Good description of 'team defence', right there.

The 'Diamond Defence' is here to stay and it looks to be working better each week.  I guess the leaking out back vs Ess, StK and Port was the learning 'we had to have'.  We will know next Sunday.

I painfully remember Jetta being on Riewoldt a few weeks ago and we all remember how that turn out.

I hope to God I do not see it again this weekend.

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

Am always one to jump on underperforming players, but the backline played really really well on the weekend.

Oscar McDonald played with an intensity I haven't seen and I hope that now becomes the bench-mark for him.

Frost played like an actual footballer, minimized mistakes and intercepted well.

T-Mac back to his best. 

Back it up.

[Mazer Rackham 14,971]

3 hours ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Mitch White:  “[Against Freo], we were just talking really well and setting up early and it was a credit to the boys up front...hey really locked it in and put the pressure on, which helped us and allowed us to set-up really quickly.”  http://www.melbournefc.com.au/news/2016-07-10/mitch-made-of-white-stuff

Yes! Nothing like a bit of scoreboard pressure to help the forwards AND backs. Suddenly the oppo are the ones scrambling and getting desperate.

We seem to play best when we get a jump start and it's easier to stay in front than to come from behind.

[DeeSpencer 26,510]

29 minutes ago, stevethemanjordan said:

Am always one to jump on underperforming players, but the backline played really really well on the weekend.

Oscar McDonald played with an intensity I haven't seen and I hope that now becomes the bench-mark for him.

Frost played like an actual footballer, minimized mistakes and intercepted well.

T-Mac back to his best. 

Back it up.

Shame to have Oscar injured after what was clearly looking like his best game. He won several important contests against Pav and even the incident that saw him injured had him spoiling the ball over the line aggressively. 

[DeeSpencer 26,510]

There's a few things I don't like about the backline:

1. The lack of foot skills - but that's clearly a personnel and experience thing

2. Lack of either communication, trust or discipline when it comes to spoiling or staying down. Tom Mc and Jetta are probably 2 of our biggest offenders here. For so long they've had to do more than their share and probably don't trust the young players now. But when they aren't in good position and there's already 2 or more team mates contesting with a good run and jump at the ball they have to learn to stay down. It was a huge problem last time we played the Saints so hopefully they've improved. When another team is kicking in this can be a big problem if the ball gets over the back.

3. The super observance on getting the players in their spots in the zone at the detriment of match ups. Hunt plays as the highest flanker, Tom McDonald as the tall down the line etc. Which can lead to mismatches against smart teams. If I were coaching against Melbourne I'd be getting forwards in all sorts of size and speed match ups. 

An example of this on the weekend was Ballantyne ran around White to kick a goal when they were one on one deep, whilst Harmes was up the ground on White's opponent. 

Against Adelaide Tex took a mark on Hunt for the same reasons. And Lynch ran off Harmes because they were matched up as well. 

I'd just adjust the focus to make sure defenders are in starting positions to defend the player they match up well against and can zone from there, instead of creating mismatches in the desire to always win the ball back and rebound. 

[Timothy Reddan-A'Blew 5,630]

12 hours ago, Winter Dan said:

I think Harmes would be a good fit for the HB line, cld be Hibbert like. Tough & strong, attacking, good overhead, got some toe and skills are decent.

Indeed, he played much of Saturday night in the backline? Anyone got his 'backman-type' stats for the night?

[Adam The God 30,644]

13 hours ago, Winter Dan said:

I think Harmes would be a good fit for the HB line, cld be Hibbert like. Tough & strong, attacking, good overhead, got some toe and skills are decent.

My query on Harmes is his kicking. Agree with everything else you've mentioned there though. Can Harmes improve his kicking?

[jnrmac 20,310]

43 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

There's a few things I don't like about the backline:

1. The lack of foot skills - but that's clearly a personnel and experience thing

Melksham and Salem will improve this...

[Adam The God 30,644]

11 hours ago, rjay said:

I like White...similar height to Gibson, good in the air, nice kick and hard at it. 

Time to give him a run of games.

I'm not against White, but I want Wagner back in this week. Does White stay in at the expense of Wagner?

[rjay 25,360]

8 minutes ago, AdamFphlebeb said:

I'm not against White, but I want Wagner back in this week. Does White stay in at the expense of Wagner?

If Omac is out then I think we bring in Wagner if ready.

White did enough to keep his place in the team and both he and Wagner are good enough in the air to take Membrey.

Frost & Tmac can cover Bruce and Nick R...

[Adam The God 30,644]

17 minutes ago, rjay said:

If Omac is out then I think we bring in Wagner if ready.

White did enough to keep his place in the team and both he and Wagner are good enough in the air to take Membrey.

Frost & Tmac can cover Bruce and Nick R...

Yep, fair enough.

[pineapple dee 2,892]

2 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

There's a few things I don't like about the backline:

1. The lack of foot skills - but that's clearly a personnel and experience thing

2. Lack of either communication, trust or discipline when it comes to spoiling or staying down. Tom Mc and Jetta are probably 2 of our biggest offenders here. For so long they've had to do more than their share and probably don't trust the young players now. But when they aren't in good position and there's already 2 or more team mates contesting with a good run and jump at the ball they have to learn to stay down. It was a huge problem last time we played the Saints so hopefully they've improved. When another team is kicking in this can be a big problem if the ball gets over the back.

3. The super observance on getting the players in their spots in the zone at the detriment of match ups. Hunt plays as the highest flanker, Tom McDonald as the tall down the line etc. Which can lead to mismatches against smart teams. If I were coaching against Melbourne I'd be getting forwards in all sorts of size and speed match ups. 

An example of this on the weekend was Ballantyne ran around White to kick a goal when they were one on one deep, whilst Harmes was up the ground on White's opponent. 

Against Adelaide Tex took a mark on Hunt for the same reasons. And Lynch ran off Harmes because they were matched up as well. 

I'd just adjust the focus to make sure defenders are in starting positions to defend the player they match up well against and can zone from there, instead of creating mismatches in the desire to always win the ball back and rebound. 

Prior to that Ballantyne goal on White, Ballantyne got 2 metres ahead of White and as soon as he gathered the ball it was game over. Too much latitude for a player of Ballantynes quality. That's what he'll do to a second game player, but White will learn a valuable lesson.