POST MATCH DISCUSSION - Round 15

[Wiseblood 24,636]

Have to agree re: Dawes.  Didn't give us enough today.  I do like for our structure as he knows where to lead and he takes one of their key defenders away from Jesse, but he needs to do more in everything else.  Just didn't do that today.  The bit of play that summed his day up was when he laid a good tackle, got the free and then proceeded to kick it backwards and have that kick fall short, resulting in a turnover.  Not good enough.

Are Hulett or Weideman ready?  Pedo didn't look like he played at Casey today so I can't see him coming in.  Interesting decision ahead this week.

[stuie 7,374]

Just now, Nasher said:

That was winnable. Some of our ball use was just so frustrating. I hope that's an experience thing and something that will improve with time, because it is the difference between winning and not at the moment.

At least we're fairly consistent in effort relative to the last decade.

If it's "experience", how much experience do you need for "don't over handball" to sink in?

 

[Deestroy All 14,262]

Dumb mistakes by senior players is just too costly. We've got a young team, you can cop mistakes by young players. It's up to the older blokes to keep their heads and not kill momentum. 

Where the [censored] is Pedo? Dawes is useless. 

I've kept quiet for a while but I really don't rate Tyson. Just a player. Not enough clean disposals and the way he never releases quickly and jumps into tackles and doesn't release the handball really shits me. You're not Clayton Oliver mate. 

Garland's worst is better than Omac's best. The VFL is there to develop players, not the AFL against the best forward line in the league when we need to keep hopes alive. 

 

Jayden Hunt is a gun and that's all I'll remember about this game. 

[whatwhat say what 20,282]

Tried to take the game on in the last to win and ended up losing by 22 when it could easily have been lost by 10.

 

But at least we tried to take the game on and win.

 

 There is a lot to like about the side as it continues to evolve.

 

We need more pace, a genuine third tall, and our tall defenders to learn how to a) read the play and b) kick the ball.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

4 minutes ago, Nasher said:

That was winnable. Some of our ball use was just so frustrating. I hope that's an experience thing and something that will improve with time, because it is the difference between winning and not at the moment.

At least we're fairly consistent in effort relative to the last decade.

We are such a dumb team, Kennedy getting in Watts' way in the last is a classic example. 

Edited July 3, 2016 by Clint Bizkit

[stuie 7,374]

4 minutes ago, The heart beats true said:

It's not the wins in my opinion - it's the competitive games against better opposition, and the ability to take the game on in spurts and score heavily.

No doubt we have improved.

Didn't say we haven't improved, I'm questioning if we've improved enough.

Results are what matters, I don't care about "alternative scoreboards", and we have only beaten teams that we've beaten before.

 

[Nasher 33,246]

Just now, stuie said:

If it's "experience", how much experience do you need for "don't over handball" to sink in?

 

The players are clearly told not to hack it out of a contest. I know we handballed a lot, but it looked to me like the bulk of the handballs were in congestion, and people didn't kick until they had some space on the pack. I've got no problem with that - that clearing kick is more dangerous than over-handball IMO.

[leave it to deever 16,550]

Well that was one of the most frustrating games of the year.

We played some breath taking great football and some incredibly shocking.

Once again our backline left wanting but we all know that and it can only improve.

Midfield caught napping 3rd qrt and the crows to their credit made us pay.

If Dawes and kent could trouble the scoreboard more (or some in Dawes case) and help Hogan Watts and Garlett we would be a contender but it seems a big if. 

We need more consitency from layers and today highlighted our up and down year.

AVB seems to have lost much form and kennedy as well. O mac still a year away. Crows are a bloody good side though.

 

[stuie 7,374]

1 minute ago, Clint Bizkit said:

We are such a dumb team, Kennedy getting in Watts' way in the last is a classic example. 

Crucial moment too. Kennedy was selfish and dumb today.

[Sir Why You Little 35,318]

The effort is there. Experienced players let the side down again. 

No excuse for a seasoned player to play dumb football. 

It can't happen. 

[McQueen 17,864]

JAYDEN HUNT.

Quickly becoming a favourite player.

[stuie 7,374]

1 minute ago, Nasher said:

The players are clearly told not to hack it out of a contest. I know we handballed a lot, but it looked to me like the bulk of the handballs were in congestion, and people didn't kick until they had some space on the pack. I've got no problem with that - that clearing kick is more dangerous than over-handball IMO.

But that's exactly what we end up doing. We keep handballing until there's pressure and then we blind kick it 40m in the air.

 

[Wiseblood 24,636]

2 minutes ago, Nasher said:

The players are clearly told not to hack it out of a contest. I know we handballed a lot, but it looked to me like the bulk of the handballs were in congestion, and people didn't kick until they had some space on the pack. I've got no problem with that - that clearing kick is more dangerous than over-handball IMO.

Plus we tend to have at least one extra player at that contest.  If we go with the hurried kick we can turn it over easily and then they have the spare players to spread and score.  If we get that handball out and allow some time to dispose of it then we look like a dangerous footy side.  We just need to learn, as I'm sure we will, to do it more consistently, especially when under pressure from good sides.

[McQueen 17,864]

1 minute ago, leave it to deever said:

Well that was one of the most frustrating games of the year.

We played some breath taking great football and some incredibly shocking.

Once again our backline left wanting but we all know that and it can only improve.

Midfield caught napping 3rd qrt and the crows to their credit made us pay.

If Dawes and kent could trouble the scoreboard more (or some in Dawes case) and help Hogan Watts and Garlett we would be a contender but it seems a big if. 

We need more consitency from layers and today highlighted our up and down year.

AVB seems to have lost much form and kennedy as well. O mac still a year away. Crows are a bloody good side though.

 

Ben Ken went alright I thought. He's such a fierce competitor.

[Demon Dynasty 16,284]

10 minutes ago, Nasher said:

That was winnable. Some of our ball use was just so frustrating. I hope that's an experience thing and something that will improve with time, because it is the difference between winning and not at the moment.

At least we're fairly consistent in effort relative to the last decade.

If we don't import more experienced players (who can play) we will be at least 2 more pre-seasons away from matching teams like the Crows Nasher. Maybe longer if we don't hang on to Hulk/Injuries/Free Agency/Jones getting near to retirement by then etc.

Need to move on this now in order to take things to another level next year. Otherwise we will be saying similar things at this stage next year as well.

 

[Demi Dee 578]

Really liked Stretch and Hunt today. 

Speed and competitiveness belie their frames. 

[Nasher 33,246]

1 minute ago, stuie said:

But that's exactly what we end up doing. We keep handballing until there's pressure and then we blind kick it 40m in the air.

 

That kick probably should have been another handball then

The kick that comes out being crud is a different, independent problem. I agree that this was a real issue today.@ 

[DSP 1,488]

The bloody handballs. They alone cost us the game. On top of the over possession/sideways movement and general dumb decision making.

Never want to see Dawes play again. Sick of his spudding. OMac has to improve and quickly. We desperately need another 2 defenders. Hopefully Melksham is one of them.

Not the end of the world, Adelaide are a top team, but that was more than winnable.

[Return to Glory 7,846]

8 minutes ago, Rusty Nails said:

Take Dawes out of that (who is probably Gawn after today) and its 9 vs 4 players who have played 100 or more games.

That's more than double.

Time to blood Hulett?

It is time to blood Hulett. I understand the 'Dawes provides structure' argument but now is the time to put Hulett in. I don't think it's enough.

And I may well be in the minority but I'm not as enamoured with Dom Tyson as others are.

[stuie 7,374]

3 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

Plus we tend to have at least one extra player at that contest.  If we go with the hurried kick we can turn it over easily and then they have the spare players to spread and score.  If we get that handball out and allow some time to dispose of it then we look like a dangerous footy side.  We just need to learn, as I'm sure we will, to do it more consistently, especially when under pressure from good sides.

The problem is, we increase the pressure by our handballs, not decrease.

[Diamond_Jim 12,096]

5 minutes ago, DemonAndrew said:

Tried to take the game on in the last to win and ended up losing by 22 when it could easily have been lost by 10.

 

But at least we tried to take the game on and win.

 

 There is a lot to like about the side as it continues to evolve.

 

We need more pace, a genuine third tall, and our tall defenders to learn how to a) read the play and b) kick the ball.

Strangely enough I am not as upset as I thought I might be. Sure we lost by around the same margin as we did against the Hawks and the other teams in the 8 but by kicking 8 in one quarter we showed that we have an attacking brand of football that can take us places.

Just hope I am around to see it

[stuie 7,374]

1 minute ago, Nasher said:

That kick probably should have been another handball then

The kick that comes out being crud is a different, independent problem. I agree that this was a real issue today.@ 

I guess it's just the lack of the game plan being instinct. So many times today we didn't take that automatic first option and just ran in a circle or handballed until the pressure came.

 

[The Reverend 1,718]

We're not far away. The difference today was some silly decision making and some poor disposal. The second quarter was a glimpse of the future. Another pre-season into the kids and some judicious trading at year's end and the improvement will be marked. A lot to be frustrated about today, but a lot to like at times.

[Wiseblood 24,636]

2 minutes ago, stuie said:

The problem is, we increase the pressure by our handballs, not decrease.

It's because we are still learning to spread within that congestion.  We end up getting too close together and that means the handballs don't create the right amount of space to get that free man and the kick forward.  Thus, we can stuff it up or we end up bombing it forward.  When it works we look terrific.

[Sir Why You Little 35,318]

1 minute ago, Rusty Nails said:

If we don't import more experienced players (who can play) we will be at least 2 more pre-seasons away from matching teams like the Crows Nasher. Maybe longer if we don't hang on to Hulk/Injuries/Free Agency/Jones getting near to retirement by then etc.

Need to move on this now in order to take things to another level next year. Otherwise we will be saying similar things at this stage next year as well.

 

Exactly and good players will leave...putting us in the same cycle over and over

we must nail trade week and Free Agency...