POST MATCH DISCUSSION - Round 11

[Undeeterred 3,124]

4 minutes ago, SaberFang said:

We haven't beaten the Saints since Roos arrived either, and Carlton have won 6 in a row.

I'd sooner rate our chances against Sydney, frankly.

Not up there. No way.

[SaberFang 7,151]

1 minute ago, Undeeterred said:

Not up there. No way.

Face it, we'll probably lose all 3. 

[monoccular 17,431]

4 hours ago, wizardinoz said:

Just watched Bernie's report on AFL.com & it's an open hand to the face. Umpire should have reported himself for being a f.wit. 

 

4 hours ago, 71 Molloy said:

Correct. Wouldn't have bruised a grape.

It was a very soft report, but knowing the corruption of the MRP he could well be offered 2 down to 1 - totally unjustified I know, but it is the MRP :-(

4 hours ago, Forest Demon said:

I don't know about anybody else, but I absolutely lost my [censored] when that [censored] #40 got that free right in front for an absolutely blatant duck, scores level 5 minutes into the last quarter.

One of those 'pivotal moments' IMO.  

[Undeeterred 3,124]

5 minutes ago, monoccular said:

 

 

One of those 'pivotal moments' IMO.  

Really sucked some life out of us.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

I expected more umpire bashing, I'm disappointed.

[Wiseblood 24,637]

Just now, monoccular said:

 

It was a very soft report, but knowing the corruption of the MRP he could well be offered 2 down to 1 - totally unjustified I know, but it is the MRP :-(

One of those 'pivotal moments' IMO.  

Don't start that sort of stuff - nothing will come of it.  Softest report of the century.

[RalphiusMaximus 6,053]

I was at work while the game was on, so had nothing but the score updates to go by.  I also saw a few clips on the news.  From this I think I have determined a few interesting points. 

1 - Apparently Melbourne are the most accurate goal-kicking side in the League.  It was mentioned on the AFL site commentary at some point. 

2 -  We may be accurate kicking for goal, but we are disastrous at kicking to forwards.  This has been a massive issue since The Reverend left, and it doesn't seem to be getting any attention from the coaches.  We will never be a top 8 team if we persist with this high long bomb [censored]. 

3 - The Hawks had a game very much like ours last week. The difference is that we were unable to capitalise on their poor work in front of goal the way Port did against us. 

4 - Looking at the stats, it would appear that the Hawks were happy to let us have first go at the ball and backed themselves to take it off us before we could get it out.  Is that accurate? 

Anyway, I probably won't have a chance to watch it until Monday.  It should be interesting. 

[biggestred 5,093]

Wish we would inflict pain when we tackle as well as just grabbing blokes.

 

[Undeeterred 3,124]

59 minutes ago, RalphiusMaximus said:

I was at work while the game was on, so had nothing but the score updates to go by.  I also saw a few clips on the news.  From this I think I have determined a few interesting points. 

1 - Apparently Melbourne are the most accurate goal-kicking side in the League.  It was mentioned on the AFL site commentary at some point. 

2 -  We may be accurate kicking for goal, but we are disastrous at kicking to forwards.  This has been a massive issue since The Reverend left, and it doesn't seem to be getting any attention from the coaches.  We will never be a top 8 team if we persist with this high long bomb [censored]. 

3 - The Hawks had a game very much like ours last week. The difference is that we were unable to capitalise on their poor work in front of goal the way Port did against us. 

4 - Looking at the stats, it would appear that the Hawks were happy to let us have first go at the ball and backed themselves to take it off us before we could get it out.  Is that accurate? 

Anyway, I probably won't have a chance to watch it until Monday.  It should be interesting. 

We kicked 10.0 off the boot in the first three quarters. The two behinds were both rushed.

In absolutely belting rain.

[Glenn Molloy 494]

- Tyson was exceptional.  Clearly BOG at 3/4 time until he ran out of puff.

- Bernie Vince, thank you.  We've been bullied by these pr**cks for 10 years but he wouldn't stand for it today.  Beat Mitchell comfortably and dumped him and belted him to the ground every time he could.  So nice to see the Hawk players get chirpy at him; he rattled them.

- Their class, bigger bodies and nous won out in the last quarter...example being Breust v Wagner in the forward pocket when it was a point the difference.  Wagner just had to clatter Breust and knock that ball out of play but let him keep it in, leading to a goal to the head ducking first gamer

- Cyril is a freak.  That crumbing goal at the start of the 2nd quarter was magical, took a super grab in the last and his tackling was superb.  Garlett on the other hand....

- Birchall is a very smart footballer.  Zones off to the right spots to intercept and always uses it well.

- If Trac spotted Trengove in acres of space about 30m out from goal when we were 7 points down in the last instead of kicking to Dawes in the pocket, it would have been game on.  Can you imagine the lift it would have given them if Trenners goes back and nails it from 30m out with 8 mins to play?

- Speaking of Dawes, he dropped a couple he should have taken but also had a couple where his arms were held that were clearly frees...the most costly one being the one in the last.  I thought overall he was ok, his tackling is good and he'll be better for the run.

- Maxy tried hard, some of his taps to Tyson were superb but just couldn't clunk any marks today in the wet conditions.

- Hogan also tried hard but is dropping a couple every week that you'd normally expect him to guzzle...first quarter an example when he dropped that chest mark having done all the hard work.  

-  Harmes and Kent should have been dropped.  Kent was ok today without being great but Harmes needs a spell. 

- TMac had a better second half but at times he's just not physical enough in his spoiling attempts,...and that "effort" in the 3rd quarter when he just had to take the ball out on the Members wing instead of overrunning it was terrible.  I just wonder how much that shoulder is bothering him.  Oscar was pretty good today but will still have his moments as a young player

- Liked Frost in the backline.  Like others, needs to improve decision making at times.

-  Hunt and Wagner were good for the most part, been very handy additions and will only get better.  Wagner is generally pretty composed with the footy.

- We need more pace!

- Geez I hate Gunston.

- So sick of them whining about injuries.  Roughy is a big loss, as is Hodge but  other than that who else do they have out of note?   Their guns never seem to miss at finals time so quit whingeing, you're not the only team who has injuries and plenty of others have more than you!

 

 

 

[Skin Deeamond 339]

We played much better against hawthorn than we have for 10 years today. However they missed a lot of easy shots on goal and we could easily have lost by a lot more.

[old55 23,589]

On a wet slippery day Dawes dropped more marks than Gawn and Hogan combined.  There's 2 ways to interpret that. I think he got to more contests.

Trying to remember a worse game than Garlett's today but none come to mind.  That "marking" effort!  I guess it went over his head?

Edited June 4, 2016 by Fifty-5

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

4 hours ago, The Song Formerly Known As said:

Thought Tracca was solid though, especially for a 5th game player or whatever he is.

Apart from the mark on 50 in the last where we were level or just behind and he kicked to the pocket to Dawes and someone else. Went down the other end for a score i think. Don't know who i was angrier with, Tracc or Dawes and whoever else lead there. Dumb footy all round. We were in it up to our necks at that point.

The other part that annoyed me was the celebration after Jones's running goal in the 3rd. You would think we had won or something. Jonesy son i would've thought you'd learned by now. Settle em quickly tell em to head back to their places, head down "we've got a job to do fellas....no celebrating yet!". Hawks pretty much took over from there. Not saying this was solely responsible but will we ever learn?

[titan_uranus 25,020]

1 hour ago, Grapeviney said:

The forward structure / set-up falls to bits when Watts is in the ruck. Same thing happened last week.

Too many occasions today when both Jack and Jesse were well up the ground, leaving just Dawes and the smalls near goal. 

If they're going to persist with Watts pinch-hitting in the ruck, then Jesse has to stay closer to goal during those times. 

The answer is to stop putting Watts in the ruck.

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

1 hour ago, Grapeviney said:

The forward structure / set-up falls to bits when Watts is in the ruck. Same thing happened last week.

Too many occasions today when both Jack and Jesse were well up the ground, leaving just Dawes and the smalls near goal. 

If they're going to persist with Watts pinch-hitting in the ruck, then Jesse has to stay closer to goal during those times. 

Should have been Dawes in the ruck Grape not Watts. Very poor coaching there IMO. You don't put a rolls royce on a 4x4 testing ground when there was a Prado running around!

[DeeSpencer 25,713]

4 hours ago, AdamFarr said:

Agree with everything but 'we are a mile off it down back'.

We all love Jetta's work, although he's not perfect, he has to stay down a bit and then provide more drive. I like what Hunt and Wagner are doing but they are both so inexperienced that it's an unknown how they will develop. Bugg was solid back there in a change of role. Frost the same. 

The McDonald's are all over the shop and there was little cohesion with or without the ball from the backs in conditions that should've suited, even if the Hawks still have great forward pressure. 

Salem is out, Lumumba as well, Melksham might give us something next year, Bernie to half back and if he wasn't a rookie I think Mitch White would've had a look in by now. So there's options.

But right now I still think I'm seeing a backline that is in the earliest stages of a rebuild, with new players all the time, a lack of leadership, a changed game plan and a fair bit of uncertainty. I know the recruiting probably focused on finding some midfielders who can win the ball and some forwards who can score but if there's a priority between now and the end of the year I'd like to see the legitimate emergence of a core backline group, including one of the talls - ie. probably Tom McDonald or maybe Frost taking some control of their game.

[The Reverend 1,736]

4 hours ago, Middymalt said:

Garlett go to the VFL Gawn who wins the hitouts and smacks it 20 meters the other way every time what a simpleton Dawes is a spud Trengove is the slowest player in the AFL and the umpires screwed us and trade TMac absolute brain dead spud.

You made me move from a very comfortable reclining position on the couch. I was moved to respond.

Are you for real?!!!!

I really hope you're being sarcastic.

[Adam The God 30,260]

The Demonland group-think surrounding Omac's form is a little perplexing. The rhetoric continues to be that he looks 'way off it'. He's not winning every contest and he makes a few errors here and there, but so does Jesse Hogan. If you compare Omac's start to Frawley's start, you could plot a similar trajectory I'd reckon.

Playing Oscar in the 2s isn't going to speed up his development, it's going to slow it. I'm glad the FD seem to agree, as they continue to play him at the highest level.

[Adam The God 30,260]

7 hours ago, Forest Demon said:

I like Frost down back, but I can recall at least 3 times where he tried to be too cute and directly turned it over.

He'll learn. Give him a run of games back there and he'll be able to limit these errors soon enough.

[P-man 13,366]

13 minutes ago, AdamFarr said:

The Demonland group-think surrounding Omac's form is a little perplexing. The rhetoric continues to be that he looks 'way off it'. He's not winning every contest and he makes a few errors here and there, but so does Jesse Hogan. If you compare Omac's start to Frawley's start, you could plot a similar trajectory I'd reckon.

Playing Oscar in the 2s isn't going to speed up his development, it's going to slow it. I'm glad the FD seem to agree, as they continue to play him at the highest level.

Not a good example of Demonland groupthink. If anything, posters are split down the middle on whether he should be playing or not.

He shouldn't be, imo. His presence in the side is costly at the minute. Slow, easily outbodied and outpositioned, and panicked with the ball. One McDonald in the side is enough for the time being. Two of them is doing my tightness in the chest no favours.

But it's a pointless debate because he will be selected. I'd even expect Harmes to be selected again despite a screaming case for him to have a spell. It is youth or bust at the minute.

Edited June 4, 2016 by P-man

[SaberFang 7,151]

I have no real issues with what the coaching group are doing with underdone defenders this year. Yeah, our defence isn't really holding up, but they're clearly getting as many games into the kids as they can in the hope that it'll help Goodwin next year.

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

5 hours ago, Umpire Please said:

When will someone from our Football Department get the bloody umpires representative down to our club and sort out what we need tin do to get the same interruputation of head high,in the back , kicking in danger etc etc... As every other team that we play against. I am over the dumb way we get sucked into thinking we can tackle, play the ball like the teams we are playing on the day and expect the umpires to see it the same way. We wear Red And Blue and umpires interrupt all these rules differently to a player wearing Brown & Gold, Black and White and every other colour combination. I blame the FD as they need to get the memo's and ask for clarification because the players haven't got an idea.

I would prefer the players keep playing for them like every other club. But you are correct on the FD part. This club needs to get their big boy pants on and protest against the decisions that just arent going both ways. The Haws get a free hit every time we play and mostly with the throws and deliberates  (Plus a very clear out on the full) that werent paid.

Every time against this mob Its the same old story. Cant be a coincidence.

 

[CBDees 3,167]

Just looked at the AFL statistics from yesterday's game which are quite telling:

a) Both teams had similar possessions yet we had sixty extra handballs vs their sixty extra kicks

b) The Hawks had twice as many marks as us (80 vs 40)

c) The Hawks had over forty extra tackles to us ( and 26 vs our 8 inside 50 tackles )

This seems to send a message about "kicking the ball" and "forward pressure"!

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

4 hours ago, Undeeterred said:

I count Sit ectnilda anon Carlton as theisonity games for the rest of the isear in which we'll go in with a better than 50/50 chance. We're going to have to win some of these games, some time, to get any improvement at all this year. 

Edit: I'd be surprised if we beat Freo up in Darwin.

I doubt we will beat either the Saints or the Blues undee. Can only see a 'maybe' next week and a likely against the Suns.

That's 7 for the year same as last year which would mean we are tredding water after 3 years Into another rebuild.

While we continue to blood youngster after youngster we will continue to lose.

This club now needs to focus on a serious Injection of decent/solid older/more experienced Ex players from other clubs to beef up our stocks and win games that are/were very winnable when the heat Is on, like today's game.

We are too skewed to youth at all costs at this point. An average No. of games of about 65 most weeks (Hawks had approx 124 today lol), no mater how romantic/effective some here think It Is "getting games Into the kids" Is, Isn't going to win us enough games to threaten for finals.

Winning Is believing, winning builds belief.

Time to balance out this list with some quality (especially by foot) experienced talent a la Norf.

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

24 minutes ago, CBDees said:

Just looked at the AFL statistics fromisyesterday's game which arneedef quite telling:

a) Both teams had similar possessions yet we had sixty extra handballs vs their sixty extra kicks

b) The Hawks had twice as many marks as us (80 vs 40)

c) The Hawks had over forty extra tackles to us ( and 26 vs our 8 inside 50 tackles )

This seems to send a message about "kicking the ball" and "forward pressure"!

Our forward pressure Is virtually non existant CBD. Garlett and occasionaly Kent seem to be the only one quick enough to catch anyone and unfortunately neither of those, especially Garlett, have given a yelp recently.

Garlett, Kent and Harmes have to spend time at Casey for a while. Would play anyone other than those 3 up forward at present. Harmes plays higher I realise but he needs a spell.

I would even consider JKH and Ben Ken up forward for a start, which Is scraping the barrel, but that's how bad our small forwards are at present. I would even try Pedo there over Kent at the moment for a few games and see how he goes when he gets back. Send Watts down back for half a match. Swap them around If the gambit Isnt working at the break.