POST MATCH DISCUSSION

[drdrake 3,037]

The way Oliver plays reminds me of C Judd when he started, great at the clearances seems to find space.

Our 3rd Tall Forward back up Ruck is a concern, we just don't have one and unless Max King really comes on this year.

Loss is a Loss, we just really need to improve our bottom 4-5 players, replace them with Brayshaw, Trengove, Petracca and Garlett that will certainly help.

[Gator 16,892]

A lack of class cost us.  Too many silly mistakes and skill errors.  The goals from frees and 50 metre penalties were crucial.

The sooner Petracca, Trengove and (a fit) Brayshaw replace the likes of Matt Jones, Stretch and Bugg the better.  I like Stretch, but he (and Harmes) has plenty of time to come in (and out) of the side as he develops. 

We really need to win the next 2 games. 

Edited April 11, 2016 by ProDee

[Demonated 252]

Just a random though/concern that doesn't deserve its own thread but I have continued to notice. All of us demon fans rate Salem extremely highly, as we should. He is tough, smart, composed and has a great kick. However, either he needs to find a way of getting more of the ball or we as a team need to find a way of getting the ball into his hands more often. He ideally should be getting the ball 22-25 times a game through the backline and pushing up onto the wing. I'm not sure how we/he can manage this? Put him on the least dangerous forward consistently? Run him through a wing with a license to roam? It's not a huge concern but him increasing his output would be great for the team. He does everything well, but I'd love to see him more involved.

Im proud of Gawn. He got killed by Goldy last year, set himself to catch up to him as he has desires to be the best ruck in the league, and has done everything he can to get there. He may have lost the matchup depending on what we you choose to look at it but he beat him in the ruck and was still effective going forward. Goldy is just that good that he found a way to still impact the game. Congrats to Gawn for having the balls to say what he wants to be and the desire/drive to try and get there. That's professionalism and leadership right there. His improvement has been amazing in such a short period of time.

Watts/Hogan work well in the same forwardline (Watts obviously should have taken that shot though). Oliver, Jetta, Viney, H all stood up and gave it a real crack. Loved Viney's pace and finish in the past quarter. 

[Nasher 33,047]

11 hours ago, ProDee said:

I'm going hard and early.

It's a ridiculously small sample size, but I can't think of a better "first dibs" midfielder in my time watching the Dees.  His ability to get first hands on it and then execute clean use under immense pressure is extraordinary.

I'm with you. Saw him up close for the first time yesterday (literally - I was seated basically on the fence on the flank where he kicked his first) and he's seriously impressive. It's not just the clean ball use either - he never seems to end up in the wrong position, ever. I saw him take one away just standing behind a pack of talls who all ran under it. Great judgement while playing in a gale.

Love that everyone knew who you were talking about without you mentioning his name! Hard to believe some clubs didn't even think he was worth interviewing.

He and Viney - who has without a doubt gone up a gear this year - make a formidable inside mid combination. The best part of it is it's already true; we don't have to wait for them to develop or play the "he'll come good" game. Just so bloody exciting. 

[dazzledavey36 48,746]

52 minutes ago, Petraccattack said:

Jnr, after the Essendon game I posted on here that I was strangely calm when usually after a loss (especially one that appeared as catastrophic as that loss) I would be in full rage mode. I believe I called it another big bump in the road of the rebuild but we were still on the right track and will get there.

The Kangaroos game showed me that is indeed true.. sure there will still be more bumps to come but we are building something special for sure.

 

But you were also very critical of Roos and wanted him replaced asap with Goodwin. I know we all say things we don't mean after a bad loss but to score 132 points under Roos is a massive step forward and probably did get the pat he deserved after the loss. I thought he coached the side to really attack at all cost.

by far one of the most exciting game i have watched the Dees play since the Daniher era..

 

[JimmyNP 174]

My summation of the game:

Clayton Oliver.

[Nasher 33,047]

By the way the other thing I saw up close was Watts get the absolute stuffing knocked out of him in the contest that ultimately resulted in the turnover. Without wanting to make excuses, seeing him during and after the contest, there was no doubt in my mind he lacked clarity of thought in that instant.

Hogan's very short lead in to the pocket was also just rubbish - one of your side's best kicks has the ball in hand for a shot on goal - don't confuse matters by leading in to a spot where you'll end up in basically the same place anyway. It was a high risk low reward play by both players - who incidentally were both otherwise fantastic on the day.

[Demonland 64,813]

HEARTBREAK IN HOBART by George on the Outer

In the end it all came down to a hurried kick from Billy Stretch that slipped to the right of the goal post instead of the left.  Had it gone the other way it would have been an ecstatic response from the Demon fans.  But it was not to be, and they faced yet another heartbreaking loss.

Not to say that the result could have so easily gone the other way as in the dying minutes, opportunities were squandered or lost….Vandenberg missing an easy snap, Watts passing instead of kicking for goal, the umpires failing to award an obvious mark to Harmes. 

But in a game defined by a strong wind to one end of the ground, the Demons just didn’t take those same opportunities all around the ground and in the preceding 95 minutes of football as well.

It was a game of contrast.  North had a 7 goal lead in the first quarter before Melbourne registered their first major.  In recent times, that would have been the end of a Melbourne side, heads would have dropped and a further blow-out to be expected. 

But with the wind at their back in the second quarter the Demons responded and 9 goals saw them hit the front by the main break.  When was the last time that this team kicked 9 goals in a quarter?

Belief was back, but again with the wind, North were able to slam on another 7 of their own in the third, with the Demons kicking 3 to keep the game well and truly in sight for the final quarter.

And a slog to the finish line it was.  The Demons added another 6 goals but allowed North 4 against the wind.  Dean Kent atoned for his appalling performance last week and put the side within 5 points and only 20 seconds on the clock.  Again the mids won the contest and gave the team the chance.  It was not to be.

Importantly, this young side learnt some good lessons:

·         A game is never over until the final , no matter how far behind you may  be.

·         Seconds count

·         Turnovers are critical, especially in the way the game is being played in 2016.

·         Each and every week you must play at 100%

·         There are no easy games.

The contrast with the efforts and inputs from the previous week were stark.  While the first quarter would have had Demons supporters saying something along the lines of “here we go again” or “all words and no action”, the second quarter erased those doubts. 

Likewise, this week the coaching staff must be commended for keeping a team 5 goals down after a single quarter enthused and eventually to lead at half time.

And credit to Max Gawn.  Pre-season he came out and said he wanted to set the standard, and the standard was Todd Goldstein.  63 hit-outs in an AFL match is unheard of.  Especially against the best ruckman in the league.  Goldstein kicked 5 goals ( although 1 was another howler free given by the umpires), but Max kicked 2 of his own, and had 17 contested possessions!.  It was an exciting contest to watch all day.  Probably neither beat the other on the day, but Max staked his claim to be at least the equal. 

Clayton Oliver showed once again why our recruiters thought him so valuable.  26 touches and 13 contested possessions from an 18 year old was something to be excited about.  Let’s hope he doesn’t tire too soon during the season.

Final comments…..when are we  going to put a solid tag on Brent Harvey when playing North?  It’s not that he is a brilliant player, but he just keeps getting touches and uncontested marks without a Demon player within cooee of him.  6 goals this week. …..what was the final margin?

Bernie will probably face a nervous day as the MRP looks at an incident in the 3^rd quarter.  While we might be without him, there are probably 2 players at Casey ( AB and CP) itching to fill a hole in the middle. 

Collingwood next week, and what a chance to alleviate this weeks heartache.  Let’s not fluff the chance 2 weeks in a row.

NORTH MELBOURNE    8.2   10.4   17.7   21.10  (136)
MELBOURNE    2.2   11.5   14.7   20.11  (131)

GOALS
North Melbourne: Harvey 6, Goldstein 5, Waite 4, Petrie 2, Gibson 2, Ziebell, Macmillan
Melbourne: Kent 4, Watts 3, Hogan 3, Oliver 2, Gawn 2, Jones, vandenBerg, Dunn, Tyson, Harmes, Viney

BEST
North Melbourne: Harvey, Goldstein, Waite, Ziebell, Cunnington
Melbourne: Vince, Viney, Oliver, Gawn, Hogan, Kent

INJURIES
North Melbourne: Taylor Garner (hamstring)
Melbourne: Nil

Reports: Nil

Umpires: Nicholls, Kamolins, Ryan

Official crowd: 12,607 at Blundstone Arena

 

[DubDee 20,584]

Thinking Positively:

• we had 63 inside fiftys, kicking 20 goals against a top 5 team
• we won the contested posessions by 32
• Oliver is a dead set gun after 3 games! didnt think i would see a debut season better than Brayshaw this year but we are seeing it
• Gawn back to his best - against the best
• ball movement a lot better

if we have of showed some composure, maturity and confidence in the last Q we would have won.

with little or no injuries and plenty knocking on the selection door, we have Pies, Tiges and Saints.  no excuses, just 3 wins thanks!

[Ricky P 757]

A good performance. 

All I want is to play well two weeks in a row. 

[dees189227 10,769]

I flew down for the game yesterday. It's a beautiful ground and was a perfect day. The way I see we lost the game was many things. Letting them get off to that good start, not manning up Harvey tight enough. Think Jetta was on him and a few times he went to the contest and left Harvey out the back a few times and that's how he scored a few of his goals. 

But the one play that I believe cost us a game and was a momentum killer was when Wattsy did not go back for goal and elected to pass to Hogan. I know he probably thought he'd do the team thing but geez he had the breeze behind him and he should have just gone back and slotted it through. The turnover cost us a goal and it just killed us. Also I thought Kent took a little to long to kick that final goal and I just watched the final minute because I couldn't see the last 20 seconds because people stood up in front of me and I couldn't  see. If only Bugg hit Stretch on the chest and looking at that he should have and also the nth players forced Stretch to twist and turn wasting a  few seconds hence kicking after the siren, If only he got to straighten up and get it on the boot. But it was a great game to watch. Just a few little things could have been done differently.

Vanders miss was just as bad as Watts turning the ball over. Would back Aaron to kick that goal everytime.  

Edited April 11, 2016 by dees189227

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

39 minutes ago, Nasher said:

By the way the other thing I saw up close was Watts get the absolute stuffing knocked out of him in the contest that ultimately resulted in the turnover. Without wanting to make excuses, seeing him during and after the contest, there was no doubt in my mind he lacked clarity of thought in that instant.

That mark was the best thing I've ever seen him do (especially as he was dropping sitters all day).

[Willmoy1947 3,773]

A few things I noticed were how much more slicker our handball has become, and how much stronger and stickier our tackling is.

On a more constant note, please let this be the last time that this is "the turning point game" for the rest of the year. That game really does shine TURNING POINT GAME

[jnrmac 18,954]

46 minutes ago, Ricky P said:

A good performance. 

All I want is to play well two weeks in a row. every week

Fixed

[What 18,810]

1 hour ago, dazzledavey36 said:

But you were also very critical of Roos and wanted him replaced asap with Goodwin. I know we all say things we don't mean after a bad loss but to score 132 points under Roos is a massive step forward and probably did get the pat he deserved after the loss. I thought he coached the side to really attack at all cost.

by far one of the most exciting game i have watched the Dees play since the Daniher era..

 

 

Forgot about that.  Damn i guess i wasnt as calm as i recall.  

Go Dees

[jnrmac 18,954]

1 hour ago, Demonated said:

Just a random though/concern that doesn't deserve its own thread but I have continued to notice. All of us demon fans rate Salem extremely highly, as we should. He is tough, smart, composed and has a great kick. However, either he needs to find a way of getting more of the ball or we as a team need to find a way of getting the ball into his hands more often. He ideally should be getting the ball 22-25 times a game through the backline and pushing up onto the wing. I'm not sure how we/he can manage this? Put him on the least dangerous forward consistently? Run him through a wing with a license to roam? It's not a huge concern but him increasing his output would be great for the team. He does everything well, but I'd love to see him more involved.

He is still learning defence and when to leave his man and when to stay close. In the first few games he has been wrong-sided and turned inside out on a few occasions. He will get more confortable there.

[Gator 16,892]

12 minutes ago, willmoy said:

A few things I noticed were how much more slicker our handball has become, and how much stronger and stickier our tackling is.

On a more constant note, please let this be the last time that this is "the turning point game" for the rest of the year. That game really does shine TURNING POINT GAME

Yes, except Vince stupidly handballs deliberately out of bounds, which I think resulted in a goal, and McDonald doesn't stick a tackle in the last he should have, which also resulted in a goal.

There are still so many "little" areas we need to improve in.

[Redleg 37,582]

5 hours ago, trenners_09 said:

Just watched the last 20 seconds again. Can't believe that Bugg didn't manage to hit Stretch on the chest with a short kick to advantage

I think Stretch should have gone forward to meet the ball. That would have made the Thomas tackle on him look even worse.

I also think that Bugg was on his wrong leg, but stand to be corrected on that.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

8 minutes ago, ProDee said:

Yes, except Vince stupidly handballs deliberately out of bounds, which I think resulted in a goal, and McDonald doesn't stick a tackle in the last he should have, which also resulted in a goal.

There are still so many "little" areas we need to improve in.

Frost dropped a mark then fumbled the follow up.

Watts had the ball running into our forward line in the third quarter and instead of kicking it deep went for a shallow pass that was turned over a resulted in a North goal.

vandenBerg missing the sitter.

[H_T 2,941]

18 hours ago, Nasher said:

Non-factor I thought as we mostly had control of the ball. Some costly misses - the Hogan and Kent ones - and poor choices with the ball, e.g. Bugg had Watts out the back on his own but went for Stretch instead. Our best players were on the ground and didn't look out of legs to me.

Vanden Berg's miss hurt.

 

16 hours ago, titan_uranus said:

The big question now becomes whether we play like this next week.

If we slip back, at any point this year, to what we did against Essendon, I will be angry, and if it happens next week it will be that much worse.

Play like this next week and we win. Ditto the week after vs Richmond.

I prefer not to look back, but to perform the way we did v North with effort, and having planned well - just angers me even more re: the lack of effort shown against Essendon.

We very realistically should be on 12 points. 

People will keep positive and point to the signs of improvement, but until the mindset changes and becomes more ruthless mentality and the players perform with 'less coach killer brain fades', we'll be experiencing more near misses. I understand near misses are better than 10 goal plus thrashings - but that doesn't wash with me. 

As Terry Wallace said in the 'Year of the Dog', if I see any pats on the back for our players, I will spew up. Losing is not an option. The last 3 quarters are the level this team must play at. Every, Single. Outing.

The players and coaches must understand this type of mindset. This new level of intensity. Because until the penny drops (and it may of after last weeks public outrage), we'll expect more of the same.

 

1 hour ago, Nasher said:

By the way the other thing I saw up close was Watts get the absolute stuffing knocked out of him in the contest that ultimately resulted in the turnover. Without wanting to make excuses, seeing him during and after the contest, there was no doubt in my mind he lacked clarity of thought in that instant.

Hogan's very short lead in to the pocket was also just rubbish - one of your side's best kicks has the ball in hand for a shot on goal - don't confuse matters by leading in to a spot where you'll end up in basically the same place anyway. It was a high risk low reward play by both players - who incidentally were both otherwise fantastic on the day.

So true Nasher. They both had a say in this. And for mine (I wasn't at BA) he was in the perfect pocket to kick that goal having seen many kick goals from that angle on the day. Hurt or not, Watts should have gone back and slotted it. My couch copped it as soon as he kicked towards Hogan. And my kids looked at me with both shock and amusement. Hurt even more when North took it straight down the other end for a goal. Then another....very costly and rightly dragged for it IMO.

PS. A few dropped easy marks didn't help matters, but one he managed to be slick enough to get a handball away to release Kent which impressed. 

[JV7 2,339]

5 hours ago, trenners_09 said:

Just watched the last 20 seconds again. Can't believe that Bugg didn't manage to hit Stretch on the chest with a short kick to advantage

Also just watched the last 20 seconds for the first time. I'm sure it's been mentioned on here but should have Stretch just snapped on his left ? If only it was Kent or another left footer on the end of it!! 

[Dr. Gonzo 22,415]

1 hour ago, DubDee said:

Thinking Positively:

• Oliver is a dead set gun after 3 games! didnt think i would see a debut season better than Brayshaw this year but we are seeing it

[Ouch! 2,034]

1 hour ago, Nasher said:

By the way the other thing I saw up close was Watts get the absolute stuffing knocked out of him in the contest that ultimately resulted in the turnover. Without wanting to make excuses, seeing him during and after the contest, there was no doubt in my mind he lacked clarity of thought in that instant.

Hogan's very short lead in to the pocket was also just rubbish - one of your side's best kicks has the ball in hand for a shot on goal - don't confuse matters by leading in to a spot where you'll end up in basically the same place anyway. It was a high risk low reward play by both players - who incidentally were both otherwise fantastic on the day.

Another thing I noted with about the 20-24 minute mark of the fourth qtr, both Hogan and Watts tried to come off the ground at the same time, both were sent back onto the ground and into the forward line to rest. it's not an excuse either, but Watts in particular was stuffed, and looked like he was cramping. 

Also on Stretch's effort in the last seconds of the game, it wasn't great delivery, but I think he was caught a little in between moving forward and working out the body contact that was to come from his opponent. He should be better for the experience.

[Phadraig 760]

1 hour ago, Clint Bizkit said:

That mark was the best thing I've ever seen him do (especially as he was dropping sitters all day).

There was a passage where he fumbled about 3 times in a row and somehow managed to fix his mistakes every time

[Binmans PA 26,053]

20 minutes ago, Ouch! said:

Another thing I noted with about the 20-24 minute mark of the fourth qtr, both Hogan and Watts tried to come off the ground at the same time, both were sent back onto the ground and into the forward line to rest. it's not an excuse either, but Watts in particular was stuffed, and looked like he was cramping. 

Also on Stretch's effort in the last seconds of the game, it wasn't great delivery, but I think he was caught a little in between moving forward and working out the body contact that was to come from his opponent. He should be better for the experience.

I hope this really burns for Stretch and it drives him to be tougher at the contest, because if we're being serious, he was soft at the contest all day. I like his run and carry, but we can't carry soft outsiders in the future. You've gotta be tough in the contest otherwise you probably won't get much of a look in. His skills won't be strong enough to warrant him getting a game just for outside run.