Post Match Discussion - Round 17

[old dee 24,002]

because our forward structure is no good especially Dawes.

Who?

[boydie 655]

We rob Peter to pay Paul by playing McDonald forward.

We play McDonald forward because Dawes cant do his job, if he cant do his job then he shouldn't play. Pay him out at the end of the season, he's bloody useless.

[pitmaster 3,589]

We rob Peter to pay Paul by playing McDonald forward.

We play McDonald forward because Dawes cant do his job, if he cant do his job then he shouldn't play. Pay him out at the end of the season, he's bloody useless.

We're no longer at the point we can blame injuries for our lousy showing. Kent and Salem would have been handy but they would not make the difference with the Saints. But the injury that is hurting us most is Frost because he would free McDonald to go forward and still keep our defensive structure.

[poita 3,908]

We're no longer at the point we can blame injuries for our lousy showing. Kent and Salem would have been handy but they would not make the difference with the Saints. But the injury that is hurting us most is Frost because he would free McDonald to go forward and still keep our defensive structure.

The injury that hurts the most is Pedersen because he can actually take a mark and kick a goal. If Pedersen was there, Dawes would be at Casey where he belongs, and McDonald would be in defence where he belongs.

I would say that Frost's ability to be a decent AFL footballer is still completely unproven, as is Kent's. Not to say that they both won't be, but they haven't shown it to date.

But injuries are in no way an excuse for anything we have dished up in the past four weeks.

[Pates 9,675]

Familiar lines being trotted out by the players and coach, I guess when you lose as many as we have in the last 9 years they would be familiar. But seriously, Viney says we were outplayed? I reckon I can count the number of players who put in a 4 quarter effort on one hand. That's not being outplayed. Outplayed is where you give it your all and you still lose, that I can cop.

There are a number of players who really need to be pulled into line, starting with Dawes and Lumumba. Dawes is paid to be a forward and didn't take a shot from 45m out, he shanked multiple kicks, dropped multiple marks and made a meal out of several situations. He should be in a Casey uniform this week if Roos is really trying to build a no BS culture. Lumumba has been an interesting one since joining us, started the year well and dropped off, and now plays in patches. But what is really killing us lately is his decision making. Giving off handballs to stationary players, going for a run with no clue what his next move is, and butchering a ball at critical times. I still think he can be a good pick up for us, but right now he is hurting the team.

What is clear is that we still rely heavily on our young/inexperienced players to pick up the slack, despite the "no messiah policy". Brayshaw continues to try his guts out and we expect Hoges to be able to mark anything (although he was average yesterday). Roos needs to stop the BS and let the players know that the standard we have put up every since the last quarter v WC has been pathetic.

[Sir Why You Little 37,307]

Familiar lines being trotted out by the players and coach, I guess when you lose as many as we have in the last 9 years they would be familiar. But seriously, Viney says we were outplayed? I reckon I can count the number of players who put in a 4 quarter effort on one hand. That's not being outplayed. Outplayed is where you give it your all and you still lose, that I can cop.

There are a number of players who really need to be pulled into line, starting with Dawes and Lumumba. Dawes is paid to be a forward and didn't take a shot from 45m out, he shanked multiple kicks, dropped multiple marks and made a meal out of several situations. He should be in a Casey uniform this week if Roos is really trying to build a no BS culture. Lumumba has been an interesting one since joining us, started the year well and dropped off, and now plays in patches. But what is really killing us lately is his decision making. Giving off handballs to stationary players, going for a run with no clue what his next move is, and butchering a ball at critical times. I still think he can be a good pick up for us, but right now he is hurting the team.

What is clear is that we still rely heavily on our young/inexperienced players to pick up the slack, despite the "no messiah policy". Brayshaw continues to try his guts out and we expect Hoges to be able to mark anything (although he was average yesterday). Roos needs to stop the BS and let the players know that the standard we have put up every since the last quarter v WC has been pathetic.

Exactly why we need to recruit leaders who will not tolerate players who do not share the burden as a team, rather than just "get rid of the ball so it is not my fault"

Until this element is cut out of the club the position of coach is a mere figurehead...

[Pates 9,675]

Exactly why we need to recruit leaders who will not tolerate players who do not share the burden as a team, rather than just "get rid of the ball so it is not my fault"

Until this element is cut out of the club the position of coach is a mere figurehead...

How much of that was there yesterday?! I mean I know I should be used to seeing it from Melbourne players but jeez, and just giving it off to players standing there not even looking to do anything with it.

[Mondê 525]

Settled down a bit since yesterday so will post my thoughts on proceedings with a clear mind.

The first thing that stood out like a sore thumb to me was the selfishness of the playing group. I can count on two hands the amount of times players ignored teammates in better positions to take low percentage shots on goal. Even our skipper was guilty of this. It's unacceptable and footy is a team sport and we are playing like a bunch of individuals scared of being dropped. To be successful in this sport you need everybody towing the line together, blocking, running, tackling, backing up, talking, all as one unit.

Secondly, I've had it with our skills. This is league football, how can we be missing open targets from 15 meters away? We need way, way more ball work in the pre-season. Get a specialist kicking coach, anything.

Lastly, I am usually not one to have a go at officials, but yesterdays officiating was absolutely outrageous. The three decisions that did me were the high tackle paid against Watts when he was almost slide tackled by Armitage (the definition of the rule), the non holding the ball of Sinclair in a perfectly executed tackle by Howe in which Sinclair was dispossessed after having a good 10 seconds to get rid of it, and the illegal block in the ruck at the end paid against Gawn in the center square. His eyes never left the ball and it was a textbook ruck contest.

Despite all of this, I believe we are in better shape then we were two years ago. I don't think Roos is the match day coach to take us to our next era of success but he wasn't hired to achieve that. He has stemmed the bleeding (70+ point losses) and got some games into promising kids, which is super important. We are better off.

[Young Dee 1,303]

We're no longer at the point we can blame injuries for our lousy showing. Kent and Salem would have been handy but they would not make the difference with the Saints. But the injury that is hurting us most is Frost because he would free McDonald to go forward and still keep our defensive structure.

True I keep forgetting about Frost. We still don't even know what he can provide - I remember he has serious pace and gives it 100%.

I remember us also throwing him forward - Mcdonald and Frost constantly swapping in future could annoy the opposition.

[Cheap Seats 3,310]

Oh dear what do we say about the last few weeks?

I'd like to qualify this post by saying that I am very disappointed and I walked out of the game half way through the last qtr as I'd seen enough.....

I also think everyone has the right to be very disappointed as it's very hard to get a grip on where we are at

I've done this for myself but I thought I'd share and see what actual thoughts are - hopefully not just whinging about how upset we all are with not being able to play consistent footy (or maybe we have been consistent all year in being consistently poor)

Our list from yesterday AFL Games in brackets

Backs

Garland (129), Dunn (155), Jetta (69), Cross (243), T Mac (76), Lamumba (214), Grimes (92)

Mids

Jones (195), Vince (166), Tyson (48), Vandenberg (13), Brayshaw (16), Stretch (8), Harmes (3), Michie, (12) Viney (43), Gawn (33)

Forward

Garlett (123), Hogan (14), Watts (110), Dawes (111), Howe (94)

Notable Absentees

Kent (32), Frost (24), Salem (19), ANB (5), Trengove (81), Newton (12), Toumpas (27)

If I break that list down a little further and this is purely my opinion, make of it what you like

Guns - stars

Vince, Jones

Leaders - played over 200 games but are not stars but solid AFL players

Cross, Lamumba, Dunn, (I wasn't sure where to put Dunny he's been up and down but I think has developed in to a solid defender)

NQRs - player around 100 games but have flaws in their game

Garlett, Grimes,, Garland, Watts, Dawes

Developing Nicely - breaking out?

Jetta, T Mac,

Kids - haven't played enough games to be consistent AFL player

the rest - u get the idea haven't played 50 AFL games - need a few years to develop before they start really breaking out

My Analysis

We are thin of leaders and quality skilled experienced players

We're carrying a few plerys in the mid categories who don't contribute consistently

Our midfield and Forwards are reliant on kids to perform week in week out - Inconsistencies are going to happen

there is some good talent in this team it just needs more time to develop

We are a defensive side who tires to rebound the footy but we can't kick so we can't score

In trying to move the ball - turnovers kill us

Our kids r guns we need some experience to give them support and time to develop - We are gunning some guys down and I don't think they have the support they need

I listen to the experts who say 60 - 80 games is when players should start blossoming

A couple of the 100 games are real worries with their flaws and inconsistencies

There are really only 5 consistent players week in week out playing at the moment - that is a lot of holes on the field

Now is this not an excuse for poor kicking and poor chasing and performance - but from my point of view I can understand the inconsistency... We're young - we need to keep developing and we lack real high end experience (apart from our guns). Lamumba may not be perfect but you can see why they brought him to the club. the sad reality is out transformation won't happen overnight like we all hope.

I hope we can finish the year off strong! For all our sakes

Forgive my rushed analysis - I may edit and it is just my opinion

Edited July 27, 2015 by Unleash Hell

[low flying Robbo 979]

Settled down a bit since yesterday so will post my thoughts on proceedings with a clear mind.

The first thing that stood out like a sore thumb to me was the selfishness of the playing group. I can count on two hands the amount of times players ignored teammates in better positions to take low percentage shots on goal. Even our skipper was guilty of this. It's unacceptable and footy is a team sport and we are playing like a bunch of individuals scared of being dropped. To be successful in this sport you need everybody towing the line together, blocking, running, tackling, backing up, talking, all as one unit.

Secondly, I've had it with our skills. This is league football, how can we be missing open targets from 15 meters away? We need way, way more ball work in the pre-season. Get a specialist kicking coach, anything.

Lastly, I am usually not one to have a go at officials, but yesterdays officiating was absolutely outrageous. The three decisions that did me were the high tackle paid against Watts when he was almost slide tackled by Armitage (the definition of the rule), the non holding the ball of Sinclair in a perfectly executed tackle by Howe in which Sinclair was dispossessed after having a good 10 seconds to get rid of it, and the illegal block in the ruck at the end paid against Gawn in the center square. His eyes never left the ball and it was a textbook ruck contest.

Despite all of this, I believe we are in better shape then we were two years ago. I don't think Roos is the match day coach to take us to our next era of success but he wasn't hired to achieve that. He has stemmed the bleeding (70+ point losses) and got some games into promising kids, which is super important. We are better off.

dont' forget the Watts holding the ball call where he followed the name of the game and actually put the ball on his foot...

[Dr. Gonzo 24,444]

the high tackle paid against Watts when he was almost slide tackled by Armitage (the definition of the rule)

I've seen a couple of people mention this one - I was watching on TV and I'm pretty sure it was paid for push in the back ie Armitage was shoved into Watts. Not excusing the umpiring though it was abominable just wanted to let you know.

I agree with the rest of your post by the way.

Edited July 27, 2015 by Dr. Gonzo

[Lucifers Hero 40,519]

I'm still angry about how we lost to the Saints so I may be over reacting to this article on Jack Watts: http://www.melbournefc.com.au/news/2015-07-27/was-criticism-necessary-asks-watts

Jack's comments were clearly before the StK game (some were made months ago) but instead of writing the article last week, Guthrie waits till today after we lose to write another 'negative' article dredging up his past and our poor performances.

The AFL should not allow articles like that to be published on their website.

The AFL are there to help the game, supposedly!

Jack deserves better.

Rant over.

[praha 11,253]

I'm still angry about how we lost to the Saints so I may be over reacting to this article on Jack Watts: http://www.melbournefc.com.au/news/2015-07-27/was-criticism-necessary-asks-watts

Jack's comments were clearly before the StK game (some were made months ago) but instead of writing the article last week, Guthrie waits till today after we lose to write another 'negative' article dredging up his past and our poor performances.

The AFL should not allow articles like that to be published on their website.

The AFL are there to help the game, supposedly!

Jack deserves better.

Rant over.

That article was posted a few days ago. Not sure why the date says 27th.

Edited July 27, 2015 by praha

[Lucifers Hero 40,519]

That article was posted a few days ago. Not sure why the date says 27th.

I haven't seen it on the MFC website where the AFL usually posts club/player articles.

Do you have a link to where/when it was posted?

[old dee 24,002]

I'm still angry about how we lost to the Saints so I may be over reacting to this article on Jack Watts: http://www.melbournefc.com.au/news/2015-07-27/was-criticism-necessary-asks-watts

Jack's comments were clearly before the StK game (some were made months ago) but instead of writing the article last week, Guthrie waits till today after we lose to write another 'negative' article dredging up his past and our poor performances.

The AFL should not allow articles like that to be published on their website.

The AFL are there to help the game, supposedly!

Jack deserves better.

Rant over.

Yes you are LH

Go and make a coffee and forget the MFC for 30 minutes.

[Lucifers Hero 40,519]

Yes you are LH

Go and make a coffee and forget the MFC for 30 minutes.

The coffee pot is on, od!

Message to self: Do not log on to DL after a terrible loss for at least 3 days!

Message to self: Get over Dawes incompetence

[old dee 24,002]

The coffee pot is on, od!

Message to self: Do not log on to DL after a terrible loss for at least 3 days!

Message to self: Get over Dawes incompetence

Now your getting it

After 54 years LH I have come to realise that old saying "the more things change the more they stay the same" was written with the MFC in mind.

Hang in there it will change in your life time not mine sadly.

[Lucifers Hero 40,519]

Now your getting it

After 54 years LH I have come to realise that old saying "the more things change the more they stay the same" was written with the MFC in mind.

Hang in there it will change in your life time not mine sadly.

I'm back od but I stumbled onto the 'Radio and football racists' thread.

It looked very dangerous in there so am seeking refuge back here with just the angst of my football team to deal with.

[old dee 24,002]

I'm back od but I stumbled onto the 'Radio and football racists' thread.

It looked very dangerous in there so am seeking refuge back here with just the angst of my football team to deal with.

Good decision LH a safe haven here

[Demon Jack 7,140]

Some good news. Viney's snuck into the team of the week.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-07-28/team-of-the-week-round-17

How good is this kid? Limited one of the most dangerous midfielders in the competition to 18 touches and racked up 31 himself. Would be leading the B&F if it weren't for injury. However he still could finish top 5.

[Lucifers Hero 40,519]

Some good news. Viney's snuck into the team of the week.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-07-28/team-of-the-week-round-17

How good is this kid? Limited one of the most dangerous midfielders in the competition to 18 touches and racked up 31 himself. Would be leading the B&F if it weren't for injury. However he still could finish top 5.

I wonder if Jack continues to play as he has and beats the very best midfielders in the game if he can make AA?

Very good to see Bennell have a good return to the game. He has had a rough trot recently and good on him for taking it on the chin and getting on with it. Let his footy do the talking.

That is quite an awesome team this week.

[Skuit 10,031]

Do they still vote on the Bluey the way they did a while back. Some system from memory whereby every player is given a mark out of ten for each game? I may be imagining this - have been self-medicated since Sunday - but if so Jack could be right up there in contention already.

[CBDees 3,167]

We're no longer at the point we can blame injuries for our lousy showing. Kent and Salem would have been handy but they would not make the difference with the Saints. But the injury that is hurting us most is Frost because he would free McDonald to go forward and still keep our defensive structure.

Unfortunately (or fortunately) I have been in remote West Papua for the last fortnight and have only just now seen the results of the Brissie and Saints matches (via weak airport wifi). Looking at the AFL website, and seeing the Melbourne players achieved the top seven spots by number of disposals (Viney with 31), how on earth did theSaints nearly double our score? Can anybody explain it?

[dee-luded 2,959]

I watched this game from the comfort of Romsey Manor RTG. During the third quarter I used alcohol to wash down an additional "atenolol" and my poor gentle bloody dog is still hiding in the bedroom. I'm not wasting my time or energy going to another game this year.

atenolol

əˈtɛnəlɒl/

noun

Medicine

noun: atenolol

1. a beta blocker used mainly to treat angina and high blood pressure.