Some serious questions asked about Paul Roos ...

[Henrietta Lumbago 331]

It's not close to the Neeld years and you know that. We were consistently losing by 100 points each week and the players obviously did not care one iota.

For the most part, the players have been trying hard this year. They look hurt when we lose. The fact is that many of them are just not good enough.

We're getting there, I have faith. It's just a slow slog.

Is roos going down the road of playing guys like harmes and stretch ahead of Bail and Jones....this is honerable but it has probably cost us a win or two...

[SaberFang 7,141]

I think he's had enough of the pitiful "senior" performances, hence the decision to play the youth who aren't affected by the past.

[angrydee 842]

I think Saints just have a better older brigade that makes there kids look better.

We have the better youngsters unlike what the media and others may think.

We've had a great look at a lot of players this season.

It was never about trying to finish high.

It is for next year and beyond.

[/quote

I was saying exactly this to someone last night. Stkilda had a number of experienced leaders on the ground.

Our experienced players are poor leaders, and the younger players are thus often left rudderless when things aren't going well.

[chook fowler 18,243]

Yep, suck it up, just like we did every second year under Daniher, then every bloody year since 06.

How about instead of sucking it up, the club gets some moral fibre and dishes it out.

The players need to stand up and stop the rot. If they want to win games well it's up to them to truly give a [censored]. Not have a go and then give up, but go from minute one Monday to the last minute Sunday.

If they had put up a decent fight and we got beaten I'll wear that, but I'm constantly seeing players not give a toss. And I'm out of patience and demand freakin effort! 100% effort, 100% of the time.

I think you've got the wrong idea but nice to see some passion. I meant that we as supporters will have to suck it up until those that are not good enough or don't care are given the boot. And given our good recent recruiting I'm sure that will happen. Edited July 29, 2015 by chook fowler

[Roost It 1,434]

Thanks to the drafting of Morton, Scully, Trengove, Gysberts, Maric, Strauss, Tapscott, Cook during previous administrations we have no talent in the 23 years plus age bracket. Of those draft picks you would expect , possibly 2 to be A grader's, then 3 others to be holding down senior positions within the team., That's 5 solid players we simply don't have and that more than anything is the reason we are [censored]. Blaming game style or Roos is just plain wrong. You add 1 or 2 A graders and 3 or 4 competent others and we are playing finals. Simple as that.

[John Crow Batty 8,255]

I think Saints just have a better older brigade that makes there kids look better.

We have the better youngsters unlike what the media and others may think.

We've had a great look at a lot of players this season.

It was never about trying to finish high.

It is for next year and beyond.

[/quote

I was saying exactly this to someone last night. Stkilda had a number of experienced leaders on the ground.

Our experienced players are poor leaders, and the younger players are thus often left rudderless when things aren't going well.

One could also say their younger brigade will benefit more from hardened experienced campaigners and champions who have experienced some success unlike the losers our rudderless lot have to look up to. Careers could be made or burned. We need to unearth a truly exceptional leader or else.

Edited July 29, 2015 by america de cali

[Scipio 5,868]

Thanks to the drafting of Morton, Scully, Trengove, Gysberts, Maric, Strauss, Tapscott, Cook during previous administrations we have no talent in the 23 years plus age bracket. Of those draft picks you would expect , possibly 2 to be A grader's, then 3 others to be holding down senior positions within the team., That's 5 solid players we simply don't have and that more than anything is the reason we are [censored]. Blaming game style or Roos is just plain wrong. You add 1 or 2 A graders and 3 or 4 competent others and we are playing finals. Simple as that.

It goes even further back than that, when we drafted atrociously in the mid 2000's. We still pay for that now - if we'd drafted good quality players back then, they'd be our senior leaders and we wouldn't be in this pickle. A la St Kilda - everyone is whining about how they beat us, when our young players are good.

I agree that our young players are better than theirs, but ours don't have Riewoldt, Joey Montagna, Sam Fisher and Dempster (etc) leading them. These are guys who've been at the club for years and have had plenty of time to ingrain themselves into the fabric of the culture and mentor the young players. Our youngsters haven't had these mentor figures, and that is a fact.

It's just the way it is and it will take time to remedy this.

[TGR 1,367]

Who knows, our rebuild may have been Bulldogs/StKilda like if we had not handed Port their next captain (and Brisbane's current); and handed Brisbane and AA ruckman when we had absolutely nothing in the ruck.

Roos is the teflon man. Simpletons may disagree, but the MFC need him to be the siht dartboard for another 12 months.

One thing we do well at Melbourne is kill coaches. We are the coach killing premiers.

Settle down. Take a bex. Hang on this slow, predictable ultra-defensive ride. Keep booking September holidays for 15 and 16. Roos will get us to ground zero and then the true rebuild begins.

I give some credit to Roos in that I have seem some attempt at flair recently. Our play-on stat has jumped in the past few weeks.

[DemonOX 8,530]

I have a question, why does PR continually say "he feels like he is carrying the burden of the last 7 years"? Just get the ferk on with it man.

Also MR from AFL360 ask Roos did he want to coach next year and PR responded by saying something like "what type of question is that" but he didn't answer the question either. He answered it in a round about way like a politician.

Edited July 29, 2015 by DemonOX

[DemonOX 8,530]

18 months into his tenure and I feel we still haven't improved much from 2014.. yeah are one win ahead but his game plan is simply pathetic. Club like GWS WB and St Kilda are ahead of us in development and game style. They play a fast and free flowing game where we still play a very one minded defensive game plan. Roosy needs to seriously consider whether he wants to go on ahead next year. I was a big advocate for him going around again but i can't simply see us improving much at all next year if he keeps going the way he is.

I seriously hope Goodwin brings in a much more attacking style..

This St Kilda is the last straw for me this year. Not watching any more games. Why should supporters sit through this and watch us stink it up with a dull and boring game plan.

While I agree with your comments our skill level is deplorable for AFL standard and doesn't help executing ANY type of game plan.

Our skills have been an issue for years and dont seem to be improving.

[Binmans PA 26,123]

Adam, I've seen Jones ignore team rules, run around getting cheap kicks and regularly butcher his possessions. He doesn't do a lot of off-the-ball team stuff. Do you ever, ever see him instructing players, consoling players, directing? I see it very rarely. He is good without being very good. He struggles to lead by example and he struggles to lead through voice/communication. But he is the best we've got I think. He shows moments of good leadership. Moments. But what do we do?

I've seen him do those things too, mate and I call him out for them. I think his first 6 or 7 games this year were solid. Since the Geelong game, he has reverted to his cheap handball out the back option, which I know Roos isn't happy with. In fact, this was specifically mentioned in an interview with Roos earlier in the year on DeeTV. Roos said he felt Jones was a better player this year (it was about round 4 or 5 at this point), because he wasn't getting the cheap kicks out the back, but consequently, his numbers weren't as high. However, he was making his possessions count.

When I watched the replays of the Richmond and Geelong wins, you could really see him shouting instructions to the players, pointing, directing traffic etc. I was at both of those games and I didn't really notice it. I suspect he does quite a bit that we miss, but he certainly doesn't do it enough. He needs to return to the things he was focusing on earlier in the season and I suspect he needs to be reminded of this by the coaches.

timD, on 29 Jul 2015 - 09:24 AM, said:

Song, he is not "the problem", but rather an example of one element of the problem - a dearth of genuinely talented players with leadership skills. We actually have none.

I'd say we have none of the appropriate age and experience.

[John Crow Batty 8,255]

Adam, I've seen Jones ignore team rules, run around getting cheap kicks and regularly butcher his possessions. He doesn't do a lot of off-the-ball team stuff. Do you ever, ever see him instructing players, consoling players, directing? I see it very rarely. He is good without being very good. He struggles to lead by example and he struggles to lead through voice/communication. But he is the best we've got I think. He shows moments of good leadership. Moments. But what do we do?

Song, he is not "the problem", but rather an example of one element of the problem - a dearth of genuinely talented players with leadership skills. We actually have none.

Interesting you say that. At our last game against Collingwood, early in the last quarter when we still has a chance, Collingwood were applying the pressure and pressing and kicked a point. During the following kick out Jones had his back towards the full back 20 metres out on the flank and stood there sucking in air as the ball sailed over his head to the boundary contest. He did not watch nor had any interest or involvement in the rebound play. Of course Collingwood rebounded back. I think he tries too hard to do it all by himself. A good player but hopeless leader. At that moment in the game I knew it was game over. Edited July 29, 2015 by america de cali

[Sir Why You Little 34,511]

Thanks to the drafting of Morton, Scully, Trengove, Gysberts, Maric, Strauss, Tapscott, Cook during previous administrations we have no talent in the 23 years plus age bracket. Of those draft picks you would expect , possibly 2 to be A grader's, then 3 others to be holding down senior positions within the team., That's 5 solid players we simply don't have and that more than anything is the reason we are [censored]. Blaming game style or Roos is just plain wrong. You add 1 or 2 A graders and 3 or 4 competent others and we are playing finals. Simple as that.

Spot on Roost Absolutely...Look at that list from the previous page....

[Je Roos Salem 661]

Wasn't Roos the first to introduce Co-captains? Maybe next year he can be the first to introduce no-captain

[TGR 1,367]

Adam, I've seen Jones ignore team rules, run around getting cheap kicks and regularly butcher his possessions. He doesn't do a lot of off-the-ball team stuff. Do you ever, ever see him instructing players, consoling players, directing? I see it very rarely. He is good without being very good. He struggles to lead by example and he struggles to lead through voice/communication. But he is the best we've got I think. He shows moments of good leadership. Moments. But what do we do?

Song, he is not "the problem", but rather an example of one element of the problem - a dearth of genuinely talented players with leadership skills. We actually have none.

Agree with TimD, and being a little Careyesque, Nathan Jones would probably not have captained if he played for any other club.

The 2007-2013 Dees have been the biggest bunch of sporting introverts and followers that have probably graced a footy field. Not having a go at them, but definitely having a go at the brains trust that drafted and presumably before interviewed these prospects. This brains trust wouldn't couldn't spot a leader if their face was glued to an ass.

[SaberFang 7,141]

Young leaders should be top of the priority list at this year's draft. Brayshaw shouldn't be shouldered with that challenge alone in the years to come.

And let's face it, he oozes leadership more than most of our senior players.

Edited July 29, 2015 by Lamashtu

[Demonsone 1,601]

Honestly we forget we're we are coming from... We had the worst list by far from any other afl club including terrible culture & a busket case of administration.

We forget the weekly 100pt loses & a splintered club & close to a decade of poor drafting & crap development... Look at premiership clubs of Geelong & hawthorn & wr they come from.. Took bomber Thompson 8 seasons to win a flag & were expecting after 18mths of Roos to fix our club...

Just as frustrated/angry with the crap over the last 8 yrs but also a realist...

[Je Roos Salem 661]

Young leaders should be top of the priority list at this year's draft. Brayshaw shouldn't be shouldered with that challenge alone in the years to come.

And let's face it, he oozes leadership more than most of our senior players.

Petracca: 4/1/96 - Old in his draft year,

Brayshaw: 9/1/96- Old in his draft year,

ANB: 9/1/96- Old in his draft year,

More likely to be successful/leaders?

[Pennant St Dee 11,284]

Lumumba in my opinion was much more effective at Collingwood. He may be having trouble adapting to the different game plan, the game plan mightn't suit him, he may be playing injured, he may be struggling with less capable players around him but he certainly isn't playing like he was at Collingwood. He's been a poor pick up for the price.

For christ sake we picked up Lumumba for Mitch Clark so I wouldn't say it was a poor pick up and IMO he is playing as he did at Collingwood, but you did hit the nail on the head he has less capable players around him

[What 18,810]

For christ sake we picked up Lumumba for Mitch Clark so I wouldn't say it was a poor pick up and IMO he is playing as he did at Collingwood, but you did hit the nail on the head he has less capable players around him

His style of play does not suit the congested Roos game plan

He needs space

[jnrmac 18,980]

Honestly we forget we're we are coming from... We had the worst list by far from any other afl club including terrible culture & a busket case of administration.

We forget the weekly 100pt loses & a splintered club & close to a decade of poor drafting & crap development... Look at premiership clubs of Geelong & hawthorn & wr they come from.. Took bomber Thompson 8 seasons to win a flag & were expecting after 18mths of Roos to fix our club...

Just as frustrated/angry with the crap over the last 8 yrs but also a realist...

Nah you are forgetting the massive difference in effort each week. We can cop occasional poor skills if we see consistent effort and gradual improvement.

I know the club is frustrated at the output. They can't work out why the difference each week is so great.

And I for one am not re-setting the clock from when ROos got here. I am not waiting another 8-10 yrs for improvement. Neither are my kids. We need to see genuine competitiveness ASAP

[deanox 8,628]

Nah you are forgetting the massive difference in effort each week. We can cop occasional poor skills if we see consistent effort and gradual improvement.

I know the club is frustrated at the output. They can't work out why the difference each week is so great.

And I for one am not re-setting the clock from when ROos got here. I am not waiting another 8-10 yrs for improvement. Neither are my kids. We need to see genuine competitiveness ASAP

And yet this is unrelated to Roos' short term tenure.

The players being the effort each week. If they are too scarred to perform then we need to change the players. But changing the players takes time. And if you keep changing coaches you will keep scarring new players.

The only solution is long term, off field stability while we regenerate the list and replace the players who don't bring effort.

Edited July 30, 2015 by deanox

[TGR 1,367]

Whilst I thought I percentage would be better in 2015, I think what a lot of supporters are missing is that our 2014 was actually overrated. I spoke to Fan before the year about how we would go, and I recall saying that if you look at our fixture in 2014, it was amazing how we were gifted in terms of opposition suspension and key players injured. Check it out.

On that basis alone, I thought that 2015 was only going to be mild improvement at best.

[Gorgoroth 12,325]

Well we are changing coaches, next year Goodwin will pretty much co-coach.

[hemingway 7,589]

The thing that makes recent performances difficult to stomach is that early in the season we had some genuinely good performances and some of our young guns played well. As a result, my expectation level of "what could be" this season increased significantly. I felt I was watching a new Melbourne. This has turned out to be a false dawn. On the plus side we still have those young players, including the injured ones, that have a lot of upside. We appear to have a stable administration and coaching staff, and greatly improved player development. Despite the disappointments, the ship still seems to be steady. What I know is that wholesale changes in the playing list and coaching staff will not only not be the answer, but more likely, will take us backwards. As supporters we either jump ship and take up tiddly winks or hang in and maintain patience and a realistic expectation around the speed of our improvement and sustained team success. I do not know what the answers are and only time will tell. I am in the camp that says we are not as bad as we were and we have a nucleus of good young players who can make a difference to team success in future years. Hopefully my weary body and mind will be sustained over the next few years by improved performances.. A bit like seeing a glimpse of sun and blue sky on a cold winters day..