Ruckman

[Scipio 5,868]

Can someone post the height comparison between all 3 ruckmen? Thanks.

Jamar: 198cm

Spencer: 203cm

Gawn: 208cm

I don't think the height difference is all that apparent on game day. In fact, Spencer to me seems the biggest.

Max needs to learn how to use those extra couple of centimetres to his advantage, although his leap has probably suffered as a result of the knee issues.

[beelzebub 22,225]

wow ....a simple question leads to a conundrum.

Jamar.....can ruck/run all day...but overall is summed up as , very good at tapping ball to feet. Effectiveness.......next to zero I reckon

Spencer...has that wonderful menacing mongrel about him. I like that. Rucking, not so crash hot but second efforts etc are good. Has some tank

Gawn. Best skilled of all, CAN actually ruck to advantage...kinda novel. Can actually kick a ball to a position....doubly novel. Can he run all day ??? ahhhhh the $64 question...answer....wtfk !!

I think the Russian can see the writing... Can Spencil develop more or are we sort of thereabouts with him ? Can Maxxy stay on the paddock ?? I honestly thought Max was all but Gawn before this past weekend.

Who do I like the best , push come to shove ? Max...am I convinced, far from it. Its very Melbourne isnt it !! lol

[leucopogon 1,468]

Wonder if its worth enquiring about the availability of Hannath at Freo, noticed Griffen just signed a contract extension as did Sandi for another year. Hannath would have to be behind Sandi, Zac Clarke, and Griffen in the pecking order.

Also, Lycett at the Eagles seems to have slipped down the order behind Nic Nat, and Sinclair, probably don't have much hope there now that Cox has retired. They need him as backup.

[Ethan Tremblay 28,423]

Wonder if its worth enquiring about the availability of Hannath at Freo, noticed Griffen just signed a contract extension as did Sandi for another year. Hannath would have to be behind Sandi, Zac Clarke, and Griffen in the pecking order.

Also, Lycett at the Eagles seems to have slipped down the order behind Nic Nat, and Sinclair, probably don't have much hope there now that Cox has retired. They need him as backup.

Not that contracts seem to mean much these days but Hannath signed a two year extension last season.

[Deespicable 2,548]

Good question at moment.

While Gawn's tapping ability and marking makes him look the more likely to develop into a frontliner, you have to wait and see how he goes against one of the top six or seven rucks in the league.

If you look back at this season.

Jamar barely survived Mummy (rd 2) but met Sandilands in Rd 5 and was dropped the next week.

Spencer met Lobbe in Rd 9 and was dropped the next week.

Gawn potentially meets Blicavs (Rd 12), Nic Nat (Rd 14), Martin (Rd 16) and Goldstein (Rd 19) before finishing with Sandi and Mummy again.

Let's see how he goes against better quality before we make major definitive statements.

[Webber 10,073]

Rucking for the Dees has a bit of a revolving door feel to it this year, and I'm sure the selection peeps are hoping to see one of them really impose themselves. Don't forget PR praised the Spencer game against the Dogs quite specifically. I reckon it's a classic case of Gawn and Spencer both having their unique pros and cons. To me, Gawn lacks speed and endurance, which I'm sure is as frustrating for him as us, but has the better skills. Spencer has speed and better endurance, but is a poorer tap and poorer skills than Gawn. He's a competitive beast though. I have a feeling there's a game of patience and development being played with them, that the club knows they'll both be better over the coming years.

Rucking is a skill/position in weird transition at the moment across the AFL. With the exception of the outright guns, such as Sandilands, Goldstein, Mumford, there's a lot of chop and change in the ruck going on at a lot of clubs.

[TGR 1,367]

I think Chris Scott has beaten a lot of coaches to the rucking panacea. A poster once spoke about multi-dimensional-talls a while back. Chris Scott has single-handedly raised the Geelong-rebuild-trough with his innovation and forward thinking with ruckmen.

Blicavs and Stanley were obtained for basically nothing. Scott's use of them has been brilliant. Blicavs on Pendelbury, allowing the 3rd man up to tap away from the tag was a master-stroke. Howe should be one dominant player in our 3rd man up strategy.

Meanwhile, Melbourne give away Jolly & Stef Martin and keep Jamar and Spencer. No player in history has reaped big reward from one 4-goal game. No other club have got ruckmen so wrong like this club. Thankfully, Roos and Co. have not made the mistakes of the past; but they haven't been as innovative as Chris Scott either. If any club should 3rd-man-up it is Melbourne....and the stats suggest we are pretty missionary when it comes to rucking.

Its Gawn or nothing in my book. His tap at that offensive stoppage into the hot spot to Pedo was gold.

Edited June 10, 2015 by TGR

[rjay 23,922]

Meanwhile, Melbourne give away Jolly & Stef Martin and keep Jamar and Spencer. No player in history has reaped big reward from one 4-goal game. No other club have got ruckmen so wrong like this club. Thankfully, Roos and Co. have not made the mistakes of the past; but they haven't been as innovative as Chris Scott either. If any club should 3rd-man-up it is Melbourne....and the stats suggest we are pretty missionary when it comes to rucking.

Its Gawn or nothing in my book. His tap at that offensive stoppage into the hot spot to Pedo was gold.

I think they have, that's why Frost was playing forward/ruck early in the season. Pity he is injured.

[junk 342]

The ruckman this year have run luke warm and cold …… no votes. Should look overseas ( 2 yrs ago ),might be lucky to pick up a Pike (swans) type of ruckman.

[The Song Formerly Known As 6,479]

The ruckman this year have run luke warm and cold …… no votes. Should look overseas ( 2 yrs ago ),might be lucky to pick up a Pike (swans) type of ruckman.

surely we can aim higher than that Wayne?

[Biffen 12,331]

Gawn,

but not forgotten.

[monoccular 16,079]

No love for Pedo?

Pedersen wasn't in the poll, which may have set the theme for the whole thread

He is a decent fill in, as he is a decent fill in tall forward / defender.

Max to me looks a more classic tap ruckman who Dan also play forward. Directs his taps far better that MJ or JS

Spencer on the other hand really impressed vs Footscray with his second and third efforts after the ball up....not with much finesse mind you but with a bit of welcome brutality.

Jamar get a lot of tap stats, but so few of them result in clearances.

Does anyone have access to the stats - hit outs to advantage or hit outs resulting in clearances?

[Adzman 2,085]

Gawn all the way.

[Moonshadow 16,221]

Has anyone actually seen Gawn jump off the ground? I know he's 23,207cm tall, but with two wonky knees so far, I'd be surprised if he left the safety of planet earth. Probably our best option of the three, which isn't saying much unfortunately.

[titan_uranus 22,383]

Jamar's best is behind him. Right now he offers nothing around the ground and in the ruck it's really just a case of using his body to stop his opponent from being dominant.

Spencer is the fittest and the most able to get involved in general play, but his ruckwork is the worst of the three, and he's an athlete more than a footballer (i.e. not smart).

Gawn is almost the opposite of Spencer in that he's a footballer but not an athlete, his fitness is appalling but his ruckwork is head and shoulders above the other two.

IMO, if Gawn gets fitter he's the most likely to be an A-grade AFL ruckman, and so he gets my vote. Spencer has to learn to play football and I'd rather work on Gawn's fitness than attempt to teach that to Spencer. Jamar's finished, which is sad but reality.

[Akum 2,660]

Has anyone actually seen Gawn jump off the ground? I know he's 23,207cm tall, but with two wonky knees so far, I'd be surprised if he left the safety of planet earth. Probably our best option of the three, which isn't saying much unfortunately.

Never seen Sandi jump either. His asset is his strength, though he can be knocked off balance surprisingly easily if an opponent does what Jamar did once or twice and gets low and pushes up.

Gawn has to get down low, especially at throw-ins, to stop an opponent getting low on him & knocking him off balance. He was getting held a lot too, until he ran out of steam. So he not only needs to build aerobic fitness, but also core strength, because that's what opponents will do to try to stop him, and he won't get the armchair ride from umps that Sandi gets.

It was really interesting what Buckley said about Gawn in his presser. They expected to beat us by smashing us around stoppages, but he said they got "nutted" at stoppages because Grundy got "absolutely nutted" by Gawn in the 2nd & 3rd quarters and we got "a lot of taps to advantage". He then reeled off our clearance stats - "Jones & Vince 8 each, Viney 6, Watts 4 off a wing, Toumpas 4 off a wing".

We've all missed this, even if Buckley didn't. Our mediocre midfield beat one of the best "stoppage" midfields in recent years largely on the back of Gawn's taps to advantage.

[Mad_Melbourne 872]

Never seen Sandi jump either. His asset is his strength, though he can be knocked off balance surprisingly easily if an opponent does what Jamar did once or twice and gets low and pushes up.

Gawn has to get down low, especially at throw-ins, to stop an opponent getting low on him & knocking him off balance. He was getting held a lot too, until he ran out of steam. So he not only needs to build aerobic fitness, but also core strength, because that's what opponents will do to try to stop him, and he won't get the armchair ride from umps that Sandi gets.

It was really interesting what Buckley said about Gawn in his presser. They expected to beat us by smashing us around stoppages, but he said they got "nutted" at stoppages because Grundy got "absolutely nutted" by Gawn in the 2nd & 3rd quarters and we got "a lot of taps to advantage". He then reeled off our clearance stats - "Jones & Vince 8 each, Viney 6, Watts 4 off a wing, Toumpas 4 off a wing".

We've all missed this, even if Buckley didn't. Our mediocre midfield beat one of the best "stoppage" midfields in recent years largely on the back of Gawn's taps to advantage.

They also spoke a little bit about this on AFL 360, Bucks commented on how Roosy used the wings on the weekend and said it was quite an important move into winning the clearances.

Personally I loved seeing Watts getting a few clearances, looked to move really well in traffic and then gave it off to the best option, but the restarts that we were able to generate throughout the game was what kept us going.

Who'da thought that a midfield consisting of Sidebottom, Swan and Pendlebury would be beaten comprehensively by Melbourne, just shows the changes in not only personel but also confidence from the last 6 years.

[Elusive Tunbridge 795]

One of our better threads.

[Lucifers Hero 37,079]

Never seen Sandi jump either. His asset is his strength, though he can be knocked off balance surprisingly easily if an opponent does what Jamar did once or twice and gets low and pushes up.

Gawn has to get down low, especially at throw-ins, to stop an opponent getting low on him & knocking him off balance. He was getting held a lot too, until he ran out of steam. So he not only needs to build aerobic fitness, but also core strength, because that's what opponents will do to try to stop him, and he won't get the armchair ride from umps that Sandi gets.

It was really interesting what Buckley said about Gawn in his presser. They expected to beat us by smashing us around stoppages, but he said they got "nutted" at stoppages because Grundy got "absolutely nutted" by Gawn in the 2nd & 3rd quarters and we got "a lot of taps to advantage". He then reeled off our clearance stats - "Jones & Vince 8 each, Viney 6, Watts 4 off a wing, Toumpas 4 off a wing".

We've all missed this, even if Buckley didn't. Our mediocre midfield beat one of the best "stoppage" midfields in recent years largely on the back of Gawn's taps to advantage.

Thats a good pick up Akum. We are getting close to the 10-12 on-ballers that top teams have.

Add to those 5 named: Salem, Brayshaw, Petracca, Vandenberg. All are B graders, some to become B+/A/elite.

Add ANB, Stretch and a B+ trade in this year.

That is 12 and an outstanding list!

Then there are the smokies/depth in Harmes, Hunt, Newton and include Jetta and JKH as on-ballers.

So while delighted with the development of our on-ballers we need a ruckman of equal/better quality who can ruck against all comers week in week out while King develops.

Re the survey, I would keep Gawn as back-up/depth but trade-in the 'first choice ruckman'.

As another poster noted the Freo WAFL ruckman not getting a game could be a happy hunting ground!

Also, Freo have stockpiled on their list, on-ballers (some Vics) who can't get a seniors game who might be tempted across the nullabor!

Edit: forgot Kent!

Edited June 11, 2015 by Lucifer's Hero

[Scipio 5,868]

One of our better threads.

Don't fret, I'm positive someone will somehow relate our languishing ruck stocks to J.Watts.

[Bimbo 903]

After my initial excitement when he came onto the list, I had almost given up on Gawn. That changed in a big way on Monday. I thought his ruck work was brilliant and one of the main reason the midfield performed so well. It was also done against a reasonable ruckman. As others have indicated, Grundy became an important influence in the final quarter and there are better tap ruckmen for him to compete against. While he gave the sort of advantage Nik Nat is giving Eagles midfield, he is going to have to take a lot more marks than Nik Nat does if he cant compete all day. He is certainlycapable of this.

Spencer's best game was against Cordy who is the worst tap ruckman in the league (since dropped). Although I enjoy watching his endeavour and some of his kicking, I dont believe he will ever be able to compete, even adequately against the top line rucks. His courage last year in the first few rounds when he played injured as he was the only ruck left was exemplary. I dont even think he could play as a second ruck due to his skill limitations when not on the ball.

I enjoyed Jamar's game against Richmond when he had a real influence (I enjoyed the whole game against Richmond). At the moment he is probably the most likely of the three to nulify the top league ruckmen although I understand he was monstered against Mumford. However, while the other two are fit, I think they should be played in preference to him.

I am looking forward to watching Gawn this Sunday against opposition who are not (yet) in the top line. The narrower ground at Etihad may help him to last out the game better.

I also note that Watts has been on occassion third man in every game this year I have seen. He does this extremely well, normally giving clear advantage.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

Don't fret, I'm positive someone will somehow relate our languishing ruck stocks to J.Watts.

Watts was good as the third man up up the weekend.

[beelzebub 22,225]

One match does not a winter make...or somethiing

Just need to see that Maxxy can actually run games out...in succession...and with effect. If so, we might really have something

[Demon Jack 6,312]

How good was Gawns tap to Pederson in the second quarter that led to Bernies first goal?! Gawn has the talent and hopefully he can build a tank. He's still only 23 as well.

[Pennant St Dee 11,322]

Wonder if its worth enquiring about the availability of Hannath at Freo, noticed Griffen just signed a contract extension as did Sandi for another year. Hannath would have to be behind Sandi, Zac Clarke, and Griffen in the pecking order.

Also, Lycett at the Eagles seems to have slipped down the order behind Nic Nat, and Sinclair, probably don't have much hope there now that Cox has retired. They need him as backup.

I have seen a bit of the Sold Outs at East Perth this season and have to say I have been shocked at the decline in Scott Lycett since last season. HE is always written up as doing well in the WAFL but these articles are written by lazy journalists (which Perth has an abuncdance of) who don't attend games and just review stats at games end or they aren't paying attention. In the games when Lycett has played well he has played as a big power forward which he can get away with at WAFL level. The last game I went to against West Perth, Paul Johnson played leading ruck and it was Jarrod Oakley-Nicholls who played the pinchiting role, whilst Lycett remained forward, he looks to have bulked up a fair amount and it seems to have really hampered his mobility, his turning circle is massive and would see him as a liability at AFL level.

Sinclair at Meth Coast is not bad and I see a fair amont of improvement in him