Taking stock

[PaulRB 6,297]

Yes as last year we did not win one of the last 10 games

Last year we had our "tough patch" vs top 8 teams on the run home.

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

so far we've played 6 of 9 currently in the 8

of the remaining 13 we only have 5 games against the top 8

we should absolutely be a good chance in all 8 of those other matchups against the bottom 10, except the cats and roos

9 wins for mine, same as my preseason position

[praha 11,119]

I really take no pleasure in us having a "weak" fixture to close out the year.

Anything less than a good effort against Collingwood, Geelong, West Coast, North and the Saints, all teams that constantly out-muscle and push us around and have for a decade, then I will be very disappointed.

Yeah, I know, I should be expecting wins but that's unrealistic. If we'd pushed any of Hawthorn, Sydney, Freo or Port I'd have been slightly more optimistic but the way we've bent over was something I thought this club left behind when Neeld left. We have been shocking over 5 weeks. We're lucky we played the Bulldogs two weeks ago and not the Eagles in Perth otherwise our percentage would probably be 40%.

Turning a corner is consistent football over two weeks against good opposition. That's it. Two weeks of good football against teams placed 18th and 17th isn't turning the corner.

Are we are the corner yet? I think we are. But the team hasn't shown me that it knows how to.

[PaulRB 6,297]

I took a fair bit out of how we bounced back to beat the Doggies after the horror run prior to that game. And that when we get out tails up we are getting better at putting teams away (our winning margins are increasing).

Not to avoid the issues of capitulating against power teams, but things are improving as well.

Big test this week.

Edited June 3, 2015 by PaulRB

[old dee 23,492]

Last year we had our "tough patch" vs top 8 teams on the run home.

So we won four against the crap?

[praha 11,119]

I took a fair bit out of how we bounced back to beat the Doggies after the horror run prior to that game. and that when we get out tails up we are getting better at putting teams away (out winning margins are increasing).

Not to avoid the issues of capitulating against power teams, but things are improving as well.

Big test this week.

The win was very good. But imo it loses value if we can't follow it up.

I mean, as a club we need to think of the bigger picture as well. A good showing against Port even if it were a loss would have added 5-10k to the crowd on Monday. We shoot ourselves in the foot as a club at the worst possible moments. My sister for one who is admittedly a little fickle is not interested in coming this week after last week's game. I suspect she's not alone. Casual fans just don't give a [censored] like we do.

Consistency ups the entertainment amp a bit and you build momentum.

This week is massive, and if we pull it off, the following week is even bigger, even if it is against the Saints. If we beat the Pies but lose to the Saints (again) at Etihad (again), then what's the point, really?

Edited June 3, 2015 by praha

[old dee 23,492]

The win was very good. But imo it loses value if we can't follow it up.

I mean, as a club we need to think of the bigger picture as well. A good showing against Port even if it were a loss would have added 5-10k to the crowd on Monday. We shoot ourselves in the foot as a club at the worst possible moments.

Crowd on Monday?

I reckon 52 000

40 000 Pies and 12 000 dees

[praha 11,119]

Crowd on Monday?

I reckon 52 000

40 000 Pies and 12 000 dees

It might hit 60k. It'll be 20k Melbourne and 40k Pies.

[PaulRB 6,297]

So we won four against the crap?

Last year was weird, we finished in 17th spot, with the four wins coming...

• Round 4 Vs Carlton - won by 23 points - Carlton finished 13th
• Round 7 Vs Adelaide - won by 3 points - Adelaide finished 10th
• Round 9 Vs Richmond - won by 17 points - Richmond finished 8th
• Round 13 Vs Essendon - won by 1 points - Essendon finished 7th

Don't know what to make of it.

I suspect in the last 10 rounds when we played for example Freo, Geelong, Port in rounds 16,17,18 then played Brissie at Etihad in Round 19 we were so demoralised we failed to beat them.

This year, as evidenced by the bounce back vs Doggies, we may have remedied this, and be able to beat those we should.

Edited June 3, 2015 by PaulRB

[Maldonboy38 6,379]

At the moment we play really well for about 1.5 - 2 quarters at a much better standard than anyhting we have produced in 5 years. But we did the same with Bailey when we showed this attacking flair.

But it is the 2 quarters of almost every game - even the ones we win - in which our players lose focus, which our onfield leaders cannot reverse, which leads to totally losing team structure, and we have 6 - 10 unanswered goals kicked against us. This is an ingrained habit and entirley infuriating. At this stage not even Roos has been able to change it, and I can't see it being eradicted in 2015.

I love what is happening to our club, but onfield our improvement is so incremental as to be irrelevant.

Edited June 3, 2015 by Maldonboy38

[Chris 2,892]

I really take no pleasure in us having a "weak" fixture to close out the year.

Anything less than a good effort against Collingwood, Geelong, West Coast, North and the Saints, all teams that constantly out-muscle and push us around and have for a decade, then I will be very disappointed.

Yeah, I know, I should be expecting wins but that's unrealistic. If we'd pushed any of Hawthorn, Sydney, Freo or Port I'd have been slightly more optimistic but the way we've bent over was something I thought this club left behind when Neeld left. We have been shocking over 5 weeks. We're lucky we played the Bulldogs two weeks ago and not the Eagles in Perth otherwise our percentage would probably be 40%.

Turning a corner is consistent football over two weeks against good opposition. That's it. Two weeks of good football against teams placed 18th and 17th isn't turning the corner.

Are we are the corner yet? I think we are. But the team hasn't shown me that it knows how to.

Depends on the corner you are talking about. We started so far away form the corner you are talking about that we need to turn at least five others before we get to that one in order to even consider turning it.

The others for me would be:

1 - Win a game without it looking like an absolute fluke (Adelaide Last year)

2 - Beat someone other than an expansion side, or fellow cellar dweller (EFC)

3 - Be competitive in more games than you are not (last year)

4 - Be considered a legitimate favourite in a game (this year)

5 - Not be one of the bottom teams (this year, there are at least three below us)

6 - Become consistently competitive (the holy grail we are striving for at the minute)

Corner from here

- Win two in a row (hopefully this year)

- Beat a top four side (hopefully next year, if not this year)

- Win more than you lose (hopefully next year, but probably year after)

- Win a final (2017)

- Make top four (2018)

- Win a flag (2019-20)

[praha 11,119]

Depends on the corner you are talking about. We started so far away form the corner you are talking about that we need to turn at least five others before we get to that one in order to even consider turning it.

The others for me would be:

1 - Win a game without it looking like an absolute fluke (Adelaide Last year)

2 - Beat someone other than an expansion side, or fellow cellar dweller (EFC)

3 - Be competitive in more games than you are not (last year)

4 - Be considered a legitimate favourite in a game (this year)

5 - Not be one of the bottom teams (this year, there are at least three below us)

6 - Become consistently competitive (the holy grail we are striving for at the minute)

Corner from here

- Win two in a row (hopefully this year)

- Beat a top four side (hopefully next year, if not this year)

- Win more than you lose (hopefully next year, but probably year after)

- Win a final (2017)

- Make top four (2018)

- Win a flag (2019-20)

I think some of that is just normalisation in effect, though. You'd expect there to be improvement with more talent coming into the side. Being more "competitive" isn't really a metric for improvement imo, because it's to be expected in a competitive competition.

Consistently good football over 2-4 weeks is a metric I am looking for. I don't expect them to win every game. Expecting them to be competitive is a given: expecting them to be competitive, consistently, because we *literally* haven't seen that since 2011.

It's hard to really gauge where this team is, really, because they don't give us an accurate reading. You have to double-back to make sure you got the right numbers, then you realise your wrote the measurement down completely wrong...only for it to change back to what it initially was.

fml.

Edited June 3, 2015 by praha

[M C 221]

I haven't said anything about 186.

We lost to Adelaide by the way, and yes it is "exciting" not knowing if the team will bother trying or not on any given week...

I was initially responding to SWYL, who did mention 186, before you jumped in - I'm assuming, to try and prove his point?

And we may have lost to Adelaide, but they were coming into the game with some strong form, and we showed some spirit and never dropped our heads. I never expected to beat them, but they came close and it was a game worth watching.

I don't see what being inconsistent has to do with this? I'm arguing that we've shown improvement this year - i.e. We are no longer a bottom 2 side. Which I think our wins so far have shown

[stuie 7,374]

I was initially responding to SWYL, who did mention 186, before you jumped in - I'm assuming, to try and prove his point?

And we may have lost to Adelaide, but they were coming into the game with some strong form, and we showed some spirit and never dropped our heads. I never expected to beat them, but they came close and it was a game worth watching.

I don't see what being inconsistent has to do with this? I'm arguing that we've shown improvement this year - i.e. We are no longer a bottom 2 side. Which I think our wins so far have shown

Our wins have shown we're no longer a bottom a 2 side, but our losses have shown we are. That's why consistency matters.

[dee-luded 2,959]

Well by that logic, mere improvement would be "turning the corner". We improved last year over 2013 but we're still a bottom 4 side.

What I mean is that we need to turn that corner into becoming a middle-tier side. You can't make the leap from bottom 4 to top 8 like you used to be able to do in the 90s. If you can't turn the corner after 4 seasons, you have to start again. We've seen Richmond go through this about 5 times since 1995.

Have the Bulldogs "turned a corner"? In some respects they have. GWS have turned a corner. We are not faltering, we aren't falling, we're just stuck in neutral.

As I mentioned in another thread, we have the keys to the house but we keep breaking through the window.

Turning the corner for mine is playing consistently good football for more than 1 week. We haven't played good, enjoyable-to-watch football over the course of a few weeks since mid-2011. That means that when we *have* played well, we have played poorly the following week. We are consistently inconsistent lol.

Turning the corner doesn't necessarily mean beating a good side. It's finding consistency.

well I think we turned the corner under Neeld, he got rid of some mature players, & that started the turning... it reduced the size of capacity of old in-house culture that had formed, & he unsettled a few that were heading straight down the gysberts roadway.

but in doing so it cost him the ears of the players, & then his job.... but in a sense he had done his job; to cut into the bone to remove the the dead tissue, then the plastic surgeon comes in to clean thing up, before the neurosurgeon takes over to repair the associated nerves that are needed to operate the limbs for full functionality.

IMO, we are now in rehab, some dead tissue that still isn't responding, needs trimming. But the healthy tissues that have taken, are growing, & new tissue is happening.

the rehab engineers are all working on getting their parts of the body moving again, & full recovery is anticipated.

[Bitter but optimistic 22,065]

I had an optimistic spurt as it were early in the season but alas, and sadly, the mighty dees have given me another kicking. I'm not confident about any games at the moment.

[dee-luded 2,959]

I had an optimistic spurt as it were early in the season but alas, and sadly, the mighty dees have given me another kicking. I'm not confident about any games at the moment.

[daisycutter 29,334]

I had an optimistic spurt as it were early in the season but alas, and sadly, the mighty dees have given me another kicking. I'm not confident about any games at the moment.

i think you may have the wrong board, bbo

[Bitter but optimistic 22,065]

Geez haven't seen Lemon Drops for years. Different brand though.

[chook fowler 19,250]

What do you get when you put blue and yellow together?

[monoccular 17,320]

Can anyone here remember when we last won three, or even two in a row. Matches that is. (I can remember two and three flags in a row.)

[Sir Why You Little 36,630]

I thoroughly enjoyed the 3 wins so far but we followed up the next week with rubbish

So as far as i am concerned that is not improvement

I mean this has all been going on for 10 seasons

It's not as if it is a "new" problem

Our leaders are not leading. The young kids are having the dip.

Edited June 3, 2015 by Sir Why You Little

[jnrmac 19,890]

I'd be happier with the win.loss ratio if we didn' t capitulate so pathetically in our losses.

I watch other games and mostly teams try really hard for four quarters, eveb when they are getting beaten,. Unfortunately when a team plays melbourne they know they are always in teh game because we are mentally fragile. Put pressure on them and they will crumble.

We are such a soft bunch of pathetic footballers - except for around 7 or 8 players - that it is increasingly hard to buy into the 'we are improving' story. The game day coaching and selection has me worried and if it wasnt for Viney, Brayshaw, Hogan, Petracca, NJones and McDonald there wouldn't be much to cheer about.

I will also be happy when we win 2 in a row for the 1st time since 2011. That is a damning stat.

[The Song Formerly Known As 6,479]

The thing I take pleasure from is the performance of the newbies. They are consistently amongst our best players and are above expectations. That to me says that the current recruiting and coaching/development is strong.

It would also suggest that Roos is right when he says the older players are struggling to let go of bad habits.

I can see us winning 6 - 8 games which would be a reasonable outcome and give hope for next year.

If we could even the amount of games we won last year (4) before the Bye this year, I would be stoked.

I predicted us to have 6-8 wins this year. 8 wins and I'd be absolutely over the moon.

[praha 11,119]

If we could even the amount of games we won last year (4) before the Bye this year, I would be stoked.

I predicted us to have 6-8 wins this year. 8 wins and I'd be absolutely over the moon.

Would you be stoked? Currently, we're at the same point this year (3-6) as we were after 9 games last year. After Round 13 last year we were 4-8. We were looking good. 8-9 wins was a strong possibility. Completely viable that we'll win 1 of the next 3 games to put us at the same point.

How we close out the year is another metric. All it takes for this team is 1 or 2 really bad loses for things to just spiral. We saw it in 2011, 2012, 2013 and last year. We haven't seen it yet in 2015. Freo and Sydney were disappointing loses by Hawthorn was horrific. They bounced back against the Bulldogs. But the fragility is a major concern.

There are a lot of things we should be expecting of this team now. Dead weight on the list or not, finishing the season with anything less than 8 wins -- and no consistency -- would be a failure, and quite damning for the likes of Jones, Dunn, Watts, Garland, Vince, H, Dawes and Cross, because they should be leading us around the corner, and then pushing the likes of Hogan, Brayshaw etc further.

Edited June 3, 2015 by praha